Day 24 no P, no M I return more than 1.5 years later with my head hung low. This is my third go-around...though the last one was better than the first one...and this one is going well thus far. Perhaps the third time is the charm. My original journal: here The first post in that journal could literally be the first post in this journal. In fact, the circumstances are so similar that I won't bother repeating the details. I'll summarize: I had a great run from 8/13 to 1/14. Not only did I avoid P and M entirely for 160 days, I eliminated orgasm for 75 days. Things were much improved, though I went through ups and downs during that time. Then, I relapsed around the end of January 2014. Pretty mild, but I didn't get back on the wagon (just like my failure following my first reboot). Relapsing was a slow burn. My PMO habits were very sporadic at first and never got close to pre-YBOP patterns. But they've been damaging nevertheless. Fortunately, many of the benefits have stuck with me, but as with last time, I think much of my regression is masked by ED drugs. I can perform fairly well with the help of ED medication (as opposed to how I was before finding YBOP 2.5 years ago...when 2x max dose of Viagra did virtually nothing). But that's not the goal and it's silly to not fix this thing when it appears fixable. So I begin again. This place was great for me when I started a journal two years ago (literally to the day). When I returned here today, I did not intend to start another journal. My main purpose was to read my old journal entries to identify my path of progression during that time and how much I've regressed since falling off the wagon. It was an eye opener...and extremely valuable. Today, I spent hours reading what I'd written and the replies of various members. In the first entry of my first journal, I wrote that my biggest reason for writing a journal was to keep a record to which I could refer should I ever fall off the wagon. I'm glad I did--it has been hugely motivating and informative. So much so that I'm writing another journal for the same purpose...another record of success to remind myself of my progress and the benefits gained from cutting ouit PMO. Should I get weak in the future, it's another resource to help me get back up again. Which brings me to my biggest failing: not coming back here once I started having problems in early 2014. I think if I'd done that, if I'd reviewed what I'd written through the fall of 2013, I could have stopped my slide. Rather, I got comfortable and didn't notice the negative effects. They were so mild and unnoticeable since my relapse was so mild. This is the same thing that happened after my first reboot back in 2012: lots of progress and then a very slow regression that masked the negative impacts. You'd think I'd learn. Hopefully this time. Though this is the first day here this time around, it is the 24th day of my reboot. I've been having regular sex with orgasm, so I'm not including "no O" in my daily headings. I cut out orgasm for 2.5 months last time around and I might do something similar this time. I'm undecided at this point.
Day 30 no PM, Day 7 no sex/no orgasm I posted frequently last time around. Though great at first, I got a bit burned out on it. And when I failed after 150 or so days (I don't have the exact count), I was too ashamed to come back and post. The huge amount of time I'd spent posting about my successes, feelings, relationship issues, etc., became a negative. It created a lot of additional stress for me and I think it was a factor in slowly sliding away from no-PMO. In response, this time I will post regularly but not become so obsessed with these things. Rather, I will keep a more detailed private journal for my future reference. It's similar to how some feel simple counters can play a negative role: you have a nice long streak that is then completely broken by one moment of weakness and all of the sudden your progress to that point is completely forgotten by the counter. You reset from 100 days to 0 in a moment. Your counter, your motivational tool, now says, "You are at Day 0. You are just beginning. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200." The reality is you have made massive progress--it's simply not reflected in one of your primary motivational tools. If you masturbate once every 100 days, the chance of that being meaningful in the long run is almost zero. However, breaking your counter or your chain can be a depressing and stressful thing that might play a role in being slow to get back up again (e.g. well, I just PMO'd...I might as well enjoy myself multiple times today or this week or this month before I get back on the horse...my counter is reset, so I'll enjoy a little break). Of course, that little break can become a long break. As I discovered. So, though I set a counter here and have some sort of weird compulsion to update my chains.cc page, my real counter is a spreadsheet I put together that not only has visual/graph cues wrt my progress, but also shows my current streak, my total number of P, M, O in this reboot (...so I have motivation not to binge should I get weak...) and how many times I've P, M, O'd in the past 10 and 30 day running periods (...I'll add longer periods as I progress). Hopefully that'll help me if I fall off the wagon like I did last time after making such great progress. I could have saved almost 1/2 year of effort if I'd just gotten back on the horse. But I didn't...so I'm starting again at the point where I'd have had two years of no PMO if I'd gotten back up. As far as my current journey, pretty easy thus far. I'm clearly not as addicted as I was several years ago before finding YBOP so this reboot is easier than my first--probably similar to my second (last time around). The only thing I've noticed is the start of a flatline feeling beginning 5-6 days ago. Last year it got pretty severe and I snapped out of it only when I allowed orgasm after 75 days without (around day 100 of my reboot). I'm dreading the complete lack of motivation I felt for multiple weeks...really dreading it. So much that I doubt I'll go that long without orgasm this time around (though the only orgasm I'll allow is with my wife). That it. Stay strong. From my past experience, I know this stuff helped me and it'll help you. Stick with it.
Welcome back XSTAR and thanks for your post. I had 246 days clean, relapsed last October and have been struggling since. Before this forum, it was pretty much a daily habit and now I go 2 to 3 weeks. That's improvement but not where I want to be. Good luck.
Day 36 no PM, day 13 no sex/orgasm Hey WRAT, thanks for stopping by. It's very frustrating to do what you and I did: nice multi-month streak toward our ultimate goal of being free of this stuff....followed by relapse. But the fact is that we have two choices: either stick with PMO or get on with letting it go. So we get back up again. Unfortunately, I screwed around for 1.5 years before I finally got back up. Such a waste of time. On that note, I want to share this link from YBOP: Relapse Prevention I thought I'd read just about everything over there, but somehow I'd missed this until the other day. It was a real eye opener and matched my past reboot experiences. The key part for me: I can likely expect the first stage of recovery to take 1-2 years and, during that time, I can expect a roller coaster of really crappy symptoms that put me at high risk for relapse. I can expect weeks of great progress followed by weeks of distress and feelings that I'm not improving. It's common to all addiction recovery and is called post acute withdrawal syndrom or PAWS. Boy, this sure shed some light on my two previous relapses in the 5-6 month range. 5-6 months truly is just coming off the starting line. At 5-6 months, I'm not even out of the first stage. I think all the talk of 90 days, etc., really sets the wrong framework around this thing. When I was at 5 months, I was feeling like I had this under control...I was a bit cocky with it. I mean, I blew past 90 days like I was on cruise control. Then four months. Then five. Then relapse. Both surprising and disappointing to me even as I did it to myself. But, with what I now know about PAWS, my behavior makes perfect sense. So now I am aware and I can be both more humble and more vigilant. I recognize 6 months isn't squat in the big picture. My current reboot is pretty much on cruise control. No big temptations. No peeking. Just moving along with no sex, no orgasm, no masturbation/edging, no porn. I've meditated every day except one this past week--and my missed day was simply because I was literally booked up with activities the entire day. And, as with my last reboot, I'm reflecting on my marriage and trying to do things that will improve it. Which can be difficult because my wife is a very poor communicator. I can't change that, but I can change my behavior...and my reaction to her behavior.
Bless you, Sir. I slept great last night, was up early this morning, my son & I went to the gym and I read my morning devotional. In fact, I read Saturday, Sunday & today's devotional. It was a near perfect morning but I was waiting for my son to leave for school so I could start my PMO session. Monday morning and too much to do so a little pleasure couldn't hurt, right. For whatever reason, I came here and read your link on Relapse Prevention. I've read it before but today it stopped me in my tracks. Thank you so much. It's good to feel clean.
Welcome back XStar, you are absolutly right about what you wrote. I have also been at 270 days and relapsed. I wish us the best for this attempt. Something I read elsewhere: "It might be better not to try to get back where we have been when we felt better. Instead find a way to accept the current situation no matter the circumstances are and go from there and see every little stepp and improvement from there as a success. " Libertad
Thanks Libertad...I like your quote. It's so true...focusing on failure is a sure way to fail again. We are where we are and our path out isn't ever going to get us back to where we were. It can't--we've changed. We need to focus on the progress we're making now, our daily/monthly/weekly improvements...not the life we left behind. It, unfortunately, is gone. WRAT--I just read your last post here and it made me feel good. Thanks for taking the time to write. From your journal, it sounds like you're in that tough spot--wanting the change but having difficulty fully committing. I know that feeling in spades. Logic says stop....but those little circuits in your brain say "just a little bit." Sounds simple, but ours is a rough and bumpy road.
Hi xstar- You posted about a week ago on my thread, and I kept the link to your previous journal until I finally had the time to really sit down and read it today. I want you to know I read every word you wrote in that journal two years ago (I didn't necessarily read all the other comments, but all of yours), and am profoundly appreciative of the time you spent journaling and documenting so many things that were of interest to me. As I have often said in my journal, I'm trying to put as much as I can in there in the hopes that someday it can help someone else...your journal did that for me. It was very helpful for me to read your account, both the highs and then the lows as described in this new journal. I was most interested in your experiences with no O, as you suggested when you posted in my thread. It was interesting to me to see that you had some ups and downs during the no O period, particularly as it went on. Thus far, I have not made it past 34 days no O, but during that stretch, and during my more recent 20 day stretch, I found that my erectile health seemed to pretty steadily improve during the no O period. I didn't experience any real regression until I had an O. Your experience was different - you had ups and downs, until you had an O at 76 days, after which you reported a seemingly sustained improvement in function afterwards. I don't really know what to make of that data - your experience vs mine - but I did note the differences, and it gives me something to remember if I do manage to make it further with no O and start having some "downs", as opposed to "nothing but up" which is what I've experienced so far with no O. I will also note that I have struggled much more with preventing O than you seem to have had, but that's because I seem to suffer from PIPE (Porn-Induced PE). I would much rather have DE. Anyway, I mainly wanted to thank you for your original journal, and to see if maybe you had any additional insights on O vs no O, etc... I wish you the best of luck on the current healing process you are embarking on. Your point about this being a long process is a valid one, and I struggle with it mightily (as you also may have noted in my journal). I am more than 9 months in now, and there are days when my PIED is so bad that it's no different than day 1. It's easy to forget that I have had some small successes along the way sometimes. The thought that I am still 15 months away from 2 years, which is a reasonable recovery time, makes me sick to my stomach, and I have to remember that it's a worthy goal and to just take it day by day and wait as I heal. Remember the big picture my friend. One day at a time, no P, no M...and you'll get there. At least that's what the others say....I can't verify that myself yet ;-) Take care. Horton
Day 39 no P, Day 1 no M, Day 16 no sex, no orgasm Well...I fell down a bit and edged in the shower. Not to porn, but to fantasy--almost as bad in my estimation. So I reset that counter and got back up again. I'm very disappointed with myself over this. I hadn't been feeling urges, etc....just coasting along. Then I went and did this. It honestly seemed almost out of the blue and it was triggered by not controlling some fantasy thoughts. It's not the end of the world and I've maintained no porn, no sex, and no orgasm. Still, my behavior is irritating. @Horton--I was convinced, based on reading journals, that no-orgasm was critical. After I tried it, I became less sure because my function seemed to decrease over an extended period--and, more difficult, so did my mood and libido. All of which made sticking with the program more difficult. Nevertheless, this time around, I'm going for extended no-orgasm. The only change is I might allow orgasm once the negative side effects of no-O kick in. Two years ago, the negatives didn't start until more than a month of no orgasm (and two months of no porn or masturbation). I noted in my journal at day 54 (no O) that my erections had been weaker for the previous couple of weeks. I think this is the first time I noted consistent decreased performance. Still, it was better than prior to reboot when sex was difficult even with 200mg Viagra (2x max dose)...but a downward trajectory is discouraging. Around that time, I also noted decreasing morning wood. In my personal experience, morning wood is correlated with erection performance during sex--though this isn't true for everyone. Eventually, and after much internal debate, I decided to allow orgasm after 75 days. Things became so much better--higher libido, feelings of depression went away, etc. But keep in mind that my experience days 0-45 were very very different than my experience days 45-75. Your longest streak (34 days) is still within the length of time where I wasn't having negative issues. At 34 days, I don't know how I would have felt if I'd O'd. Another factor might be that I've never experienced the post-orgasm haze or fog that many talk about. For me, orgasm has never provided a negative reinforcement except that I've had noticeable issues with the chaser effect--which then makes it hard not to masturbate especially given that my wife is low libido and doesn't really want me pawing at her 6 hours after we've had sex. Back to no orgasm and its benefits: honestly, I'm not sure there are any. I have no way to make that determination. Some say yes, some say no. I'm doing it because it can't hurt and because it makes sense to me that I should be giving it a rest as part of allowing my brain to rebuild D2 receptors and relearn meaningful sex. I think Wilson gives the analogy of breaking your leg--you just have to stay off it for a while.
Day 45 no P, day 1 no M, no O, no sex My goal of going for an extended period no orgasm / no sex went by the wayside. I'm not too distressed about it except that it happened in the heat of the moment which means I didn't exert the willpower I should have. This is very different from planning it out. The good news is that my performance was really pretty good, especially the first time we had sex (probably since it'd been 20 days since I had sex or orgasm). In any event, I was 60-90% hard during PIV and 100% during much of foreplay. Performance was mostly on the higher end of that scale. No cock ring, no ED drugs. For me (these days), that's fantastic. I had sex/orgasm again the next day, though my performance was not as good....probably 50-90% hard, but performance was much more variable than the day before. No ED meds, but I used a relatively soft/loose cock ring that I think provides mostly psychological support. Then some relationship issues/arguments/communication problems put a damper on things. They eventually were resolved (at least for now) and led to makeup sex. Performance was similar to the day before--not bad, but not what I'd like it to be. No ED meds, but same cock ring. The nicest bit was she did the full on aggressive initiation. She very rarely initiates even in a subtle/hinting way. This one was especially unique as it was in the middle of the afternoon with the kids up and about--in fact, I think this would be the first time ever. Then karezza sex w/o orgasm two days later. Unfortunately, it was after this that I blew it...still horny and no orgasm (by choice) during sex, I ended up masturbating to orgasm a little later. Truly stupid. If I wanted to orgasm, I should have done it in the morning with my wife. In summary, a bit of a sex bender with decent performance...which isn't a bad thing. Then topped off with masturbation to orgasm...which is bad at least in my opinion. I'm evaluating how I want to approach sex and orgasm. My wife stated very clearly that she wishes I would drop the no sex / no orgasm bit. It's not that she's craving it--she most certainly isn't as she is low libido--but her attitude towards sex has changed over the past couple of years as she has come to either understand or accept that it is an important component for the two of us to feel connected--especially for me. Of course, if I don't feel connected, then she won't either. Aside from that, she says it has become more important for her feelings of connection over the past couple of years. This after some big relationship blow ups a while ago during which she told me if she never had sex again, she wouldn't miss it or even think about it. That's some good news that she has never verbalized in the past (...my previous journal goes into some detail that a huge problem in our relationship is her unwillingness to communicate clearly/openly/effectively. It can be very very frustrating and was a big component in our blowup this past weekend). She told me she has come to understand that sex isn't just sex for me...it's intimacy and feeling close. And the closer I feel, the closer she feels. I hope things are going well for others. Success is just a matter of time spent putting one foot in front of the other.
xstar your update reminded me that I wanted to thank you for your previous post, where you replied to my comments about no-O. I really appreciate your insights and memories of how it went for you with no-O. I'm still struggling for any form of success with this rewire / reboot process that is over 9 months for me, but I think the best times I've had were when I was going no-O. I still had ED problems, but I did find my erections getting better as time went on. And I'm with you - I find that nocturnal erections and morning wood have some correlation to performance with my gf - not necessarily ED, which still seems unpredictable, but erectile strength if I do manage to get it up in the first place. Interesting to hear your progress of late and moving to where you had a few Os. Seems like your erectile function was pretty good - much better than mine, anyway - getting decent enough erections a few times in a short time frame. Don't let the MO bring you down - just a minor slip and you'll get back on track.
Day 52 no P, Day 5 no M Just stopping by to check in. 52 days without porn and it honestly has been no big deal. It helps that I'd grown bored of porn months ago. I wasn't binging on it like I used to...and I also wasn't really enjoying it like I used to. Mind boggling that I didn't get back on the wagon sooner as I knew it wouldn't be too difficult given my relatively low level of enjoyment. I guess chasing the edging and orgasm high that came with porn was enough to keep me from doing the right thing. Nevertheless, and seemingly contradictory, I still get some urges to look at photos of familiar porn images--but no urges for video. Then again, I haven't watched porn video (with a couple of relatively short exceptions (e.g. 30 min or less on a couple of occasions)) for a few years now, so that's not the form most familiar to me these days. Before finding YBOP several years ago, I'd spend hours watching porn videos. Since my update last week, I've continued to have sex and orgasm. While I'm guessing that cutting out sex and orgasm is a better bet, I haven't stuck with it after my 20 day streak early in this reboot. Currently, I'm thinking I'll take the hybrid approach: have sex when I want (or my wife initiates...which is rare) but only orgasm when it comes easy. If I'm having to focus hard or otherwise "force" an orgasm, then just back off and enjoy the sensations without finishing to orgasm. And, of course, I need to stop all form of masturbation. It's been about five days now since I edged at all...and that was relatively brief. I think my periodic edging and one masturbation to orgasm really set me back...after 36 days of perfection. I say this because my erection performance following 36 days of no MO was pretty good. Of course, it was also after 20 days of no sex and no orgasm. But the fact is I had a sex a few times with surprisingly good erection performance....and then performance went downhill rapidly after I edged and then edged to orgasm. That chaser effect is a real pain for me....I'd been doing great sticking with no masturbation up until I had sex. I had sex yesterday without orgasm. I know I could have gotten there, but it would have taken a lot of focus so I decided to finish without. This morning, I started things and my wife gave me a handjob to orgasm--which felt great and erection performance was pretty good throughout, but I'm thinking I should probably skip on handjobs since the direct stimulation is greater than PIV.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is sex/orgasm with the wife is good; that's what we're meant to do. There are lots of arguments about masturbation but I feel better when I don't do it. Keep up the good work.
Day 60 no P WRAT, thanks for stopping buy with words of encouragement...I appreciate it. And the good news: 60 days porn free. The bad news: I'm still having trouble with fantasy and edging. I edged yesterday in the shower and orgasmed before I stopped myself. Honestly, I don't feel physically bad/ill because of it (e.g. brain fog, etc.....that just doesn't happen to me), but I've been beating myself up for slacking on the MO issue. This is the second M-to-O I've had...the first one was back on 9/29. I tell myself to look on the bright side: I'm doing this way way less than before I got back on track....and I'm not using porn. Still...that smacks of rationalization and it's irritating that I'm not getting my shit together 100%. My wife has been on her menses, so I don't know how these things are affecting my performance, but I'm assuming it's consistent with the past: M-O sets me back. Best of luck to all who are struggling with this stuff.
Day 73 no P, Day 14 no M It's been a couple of weeks since I've posted, though I've stopped by and read some journals and made one or two posts elsewhere. No P is still fairly easy. I get the desires, but I am able to distract myself with other things pretty quickly. I've done much better on no M lately. I've been having regular sex and orgasm. My wife and I actively worked on some relationship issues over the past two weeks and, I think as a result of that, she initiated twice. That's twice the number of times she initiates in the typical year (...there's my birthday, you know). She's also been more enthusiastic when I initiate--which is as important to me as her starting things occasionally. Still, my performance is irritating. With ED meds (I've started taking them when I can plan wrt timing), performance is pretty good. Not as good as when I was younger, but nothing I'd complain about too much...90-100% erect during foreplay, typically falling off to 60-80% pre insertion, then 80-100% during PIV (mostly 80-90% if I had to put a number on it...definitely not rock hard through PIV like I was when I was younger). Without ED meds, my performance is variable and disappointing. If it's been three days ore more since my last orgasm, then usually fair-to-good. Not nearly as good as with ED meds, but not discouraging. If it's been less than three days, then usually meh-to-fair. Before my next post, I'm going to go back and compare my current progress to what I wrote during my last two solid efforts. From memory, I was doing better at this point in the past. I think the differences are: 1. In the past, I was able to completely eliminate fantasy at this point--I think mostly because I meditated regularly, something I haven't done this time; and 2. In my last reboot, I abstained from orgasm for 75 days...I've waffled on this issue, but it could be it was a significant factor even though it caused some problems (e.g. depression, ultra-low libido, decreasing erection quality the longer I went, etc). I say it was the cause because these symptoms went away literally the day after I allowed orgasm. I've been slow to take the no-O path in part because I've been a little depressed over the past six-to-twelve months. I haven't wanted to go through the deeper depression and lack of motivation I experienced with no O in the past given I already feel worn down and am making an effort to stay positive in general. But I might have to suck it up and go that route. Before I do that, I should give daily meditation a try. It's a pain, but I can make the time for it...the main issue is that it's been hard for me to motivate to do so.
A common denominator on most of the posts here is that fantasy and M are what got us into trouble. I'm certainly no expert but I would work on avoiding those rather than avoid sex/O with the missus. Just my two cents.
I think a lot of guys are relying on this site in the wrong way, as in looking for answers to questions that they can answer themselves. For instance logic would tell you that if you're in the midst of a reboot that it wouldn't be ideal to O for some period of time, just like your own body will tell you what to eat during a diet without having to resort to a weight-loss site on a daily basis. Even men who don't have any issues with PIED are supposed to rest for three days between Os. On that note trying to reboot with a constant female presence (i.e. wife) is not ideal. I know this may be the last thing many guys on this forum want to hear, but maybe, just maybe, you have to isolate yourself from your wife for awhile, as in establish a mancave outside the home or something. Keep in mind that when we were all hunters and gatherers being away from your wife for an extended amount of time was I would presume the norm. For those who are getting discouraged in their recovery I also recommend - dare I say it - taking your issues to God. He's already been watching us slapoff for who knows how many years and haven't sent fire and brimstone raining down on our heads, so I have to believe there's still hope for all of us. Sometimes diseases get to a point where they really can't be healed except supernaturally.
Day 87 no P, Day 28 no M Hey guys, just wanted to check in. Thanks for the note WRAT. I agree that fantasy and M are a big issue with respect to healing, though they aren't what got me in trouble (at least not directly, lol). I was always a porn consumer in the days of magazines and VHS tapes. I'd even make copies of tapes so I could watch them again (...and sometimes again and again). Same with fantasy--lots of masturbation to fantasy of porn and otherwise. Still, I could perform on command with my partners: never a problem with erection, never a problem with DE, I could control the exact timing of orgasm, etc. Given conversations with some of my buddies, I remember thinking that I must be in the second standard deviation from the norm with respect to performance and control (of erection, orgasm, etc). All while consuming plenty of porn and fantasy. Then I found internet porn concurrent with my work switching to home-based and I developed ED which eventually became severe. I didn't put these things together for years...literally a decade...but after finding YBOP (and after wasting tons of money and time on doctors), I'm convinced that this was the deadly combination: significant daily consumption of endless novel porn. These days, I see fantasy...once a relatively healthy way to masturbate...as a remnant of my porn problem. I any event, your point is 100% on target: fantasy and M are a problem that I need to address. On another note, things are going well. My wife has been on menses for a bit, so I don't know what my current performance would be like, but a week ago I had some good ones and some not so good ones wrt erection. The best part is my wife continues to be more enthusiastic in bed, more willing to initiate, etc. That's a welcome change. She's gone through periods like this before particularly when I've addressed/pressed relationship issues and the need to feel more connected--at those times, it's like she puts in extra effort. So, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, "we'll see...this probably won't last." And it probably won't. But, in the mean time, it's enjoyable and I think helps my ED issues because I feel like she's more engaged in the sex. Good luck all.
Hey xstar. I remember following your reports in the past. I went to 818 days without a glitch and then slid beck into relapsing via some dodgy borderline stuff. Have relapsed in spurts eversince for about 200 days. The relapses werent as intense as my innitial addiction but the tendency was clear , it was increasing in frequency and length. Right now im off P and M. I sleep with my woman once or twice a week. I have ED issues even after all this time of recovery. My hangup around that is epic , I avoid penetration with all my soul. My woman thinks my erections are sufficient. But my confidence hasnt returned Wish you all the best in your new attempt . we are definitetly in the same boat
No P 101 days Hi imout--thanks for stopping by. I remember your posts for a couple of years ago, too. You went longer than I did, but it sounds like we ended up in the same place: Perhaps better than we once were, but not where we want to be...and continuing issues with ED. In any event, I'm dropping by mostly to say Happy Thanksgiving. It's been a while since I've opened my journal, but I've lurked and posted elsewhere once or twice. Last time around, I obsessed on YBR and my journal. I'm avoiding that this time. I'm not sure if that's for the better or no. I haven't watched/masturbated to porn for 101 days now. Which is good. I continue to be occasionally weak wrt edging and fantasy. My erection performance continues to be variable--sometimes quite good and other times meh. So, not a perfect report, but I'm not beating myself up, either (no pun intended). Have a great Thanksgiving, all.
