Well look who is here .... UGH.

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by ruggerdoug, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. midge

    midge Guest

    Fantastic, RD. Remember these sensations and realizations. Come back to that last post and read it as often as needed. Well done.
  2. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    @midge, thanks for the note.

    As soon as you think you have a handle on this stuff it comes screaming back into focus.

    I've lost about 90 minutes this morning just trying to focus on work and not on no FAPing. I haven't FAP but all of the energy is to not do that rather than being productive.

    I'll get through it ok. But it is fascinating how it goes from idle speed to torrent in an instant.

    I know that now.

    I know how to not FAP or not PMO in that moment.

    I have learned to recognize those moments and mindfully choose no. I think in the past I mindlessly chose to Fap or PMO in response.

    I still need to learn to manage those moments and stay productive.

  3. midge

    midge Guest

    blah! Yeah, the moods and urges can turn on a dime. I don't know if this would help or not, but sometimes I think of dealing with those rogue urges as ducking a wave--like when you're standing waist-deep in the ocean, and you see a breaker coming at you. You can either stand up and take it full-force, and probably get knocked down, or you can grab your nose and just duck under the water for a moment as it passes. I don't know exactly the best way to translate that idea into the reality of dealing with PMO urges, but it has to do with mindfulness, as you say. I think if you can acknowledge the urge for what it is--recognize it and let if float on through, in one side of your mind and out the other, without letting it throw you into full combat red-alert, that you can just get better and better at letting them slide on by so you can get back to your work. Training yourself to respond in complete freedom. Eventually, the urges will get that idea that you're not the easy target you used to be, and they'll let you be. Good luck to you today, RD. You're doing fine.
  4. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    sounds good
    what exactly do you do to "duck under"?
    If I see a commerical and a hot girl is eating and I get both stimulated to
    PMO and eat
    what would you do to duck under?
  5. midge

    midge Guest

    Well, as I said, it's hard to pin down the exact process. I think it'll be a little different for everyone--or some would choose a different metaphor to describe it. But let's see....

    It starts with one of my main reasons for being here: I have never liked being a slave to my appetites. Food, sex, booze, you name it. I don't like being dragged around by the nose in that way. The idea that a TV commercial could make me feel a certain way, manipulate my emotions, my urges, make me want to buy some new piece of useless crap, go masturbate, whatever--jerk me around like a puppet--has always bothered me. My main goal here is to be able to make choices in freedom. Self-mastery, in other words.

    When an image, a temptation, etc., presents itself, there are a few ways to react:

    1) Some guys just give in. That used to be me on the PMO front.

    2) Some guys gird for battle and go into combat mode, fighting the "battle" against the senses and appetites, etc.

    3) Some guys step aside and let the urge pass by.

    I guess what I was getting at with my "ducking under" post is this: The #2 response is too angst-filled for me; it gives the idea of PMO, and the hot girl eating in the commercial, too much power over me. Those things are going to be around us for the rest of our lives. Dealing with them can't be a matter of holding our breath, gritting our teeth, and raising our blood pressure every damn time they come up for the next 30 years, you know? Even though we might be avoiding the PMO, we'd still be dragging the whole subject around like a ball and chain forever. I just don't want to do it that way. I want to be the ex-drunk who doesn't even notice when there's alcohol around--not the kind who has to sweat it out every time he passes a bar for the rest of his life.

    When it comes to sexually tempting situations--pretty girls on TV or on the internet--I want to learn how to stop making such a big deal of it. I want a response for my libido that's more like ju jitsu and less like a jousting match. That's what I'm after.

    That's all just theory, I realize. Sorry...sort of working through this as I type. You asked "what exactly do you do to duck under?" Here's what I do: I turn aside. Mentally, I mean (and/or physically, if that's appropriate). If I'm on the net and I come across a triggering sort of image, I'll click away from it. If I catch my thoughts going off in the wrong direction I turn them another way. I return to thinking about things I'm supposed to be thinking about (like work, or a creative project, or any one of the many interesting things I like to think about that don't involve sex). If I'm walking down the street and I find I'm looking a little too hard at a tempting visual, I will turn my head, or my eyes, and look at something else. I can appreciate a pretty woman as much as anyone, but these days I'm better able to see her, appreciate her beauty, and then just let it go. Sometimes the turning aside involves picking up a book, going for a walk, taking a nap, making dinner, calling a friend, etc. The idea is not to just plant your feet, ball your fists, and sit their willing yourself to stop thinking sexual thoughts, it's to just get busy doing/thinking something else, ideally something pleasant or otherwise useful.

    I know it sounds glib--just turn away. It's hard at first, but it gets much easier. With me, I was so happy with my small early successes that they just kept building on each other, and with each success, each turning away, the next one got easier. That feeling of FINALLY being able make the free choice feeds on itself and grows stronger. And the temptations themselves really do get weaker.

    Sorry.. what a ramble. Don't have time to clean it up! Hope it's of some help.
  6. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    I see the effort you made and it is appreciated

    I have found that habbits cannot be stopped, they must be replaced.
    when I get an urge to eat/PMO, I stop, and talk a few deep breaths, and I replace the eating/PMOINg(sometimes i do them at the same time!) with walking. I have a treadmill($37 bucks off craigslist) and I walk on it and watch tv
    So I have avoided the temptation by doing something(ducking under)
    I hope this makes sense

    It sucks at first, but then I see the scale start to drop, by $$ start to grow(by not being spend on drugs/food) and my sex-drive slowly rears its head, I know I am on the right path

    THe hardest part is doing it the 1st few times...then it becomes a habit
    sugar is addictive

    exercise helps with addiction
  7. midge

    midge Guest

    Yup, that's the gist of it. Establish some healthy go-to diversions for when the urges strike. Choose them often enough and you will establish new habits and break the old ones. Eventually, the new way of living will become your preferred way of living, and the old temptations lose a lot of their power.
  8. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    I can withstand 1 million girls on ads on TV.

    I've found though that stress from a big win or a big loss even if it something I don't really have a stake in (like Big Brother the other night) shoots a wave at me.

    I get the duck under metaphor though sometimes I like a good fight. I also understand the turn away.

    Today I lost time because I turned away by doing pushups 5 at a time, walking around the office, doing 5 emails and repeating. Eventually the repetitive tasks take over and I no longer feel the urge.

    Those "duck under" moves for me are:

    1. Exercise
    2. Walking
    3. 20 minute power nap
    4. Reading a quick verse in a 365 day devotional I have Tony Dungy wrote

    And to stick to the waves metaphor ... they get weaker for me over time and I can sense them coming.

    Back in my PMO days (oh, so long ago ... NOT) I didn't feel them until they hit and they were relentless and strong.

    They are fading and I am strengthening.

    Something like that midge?

    I appreciate the words today.

  9. midge

    midge Guest

    Exactly right, RD. Your diversionary tactics are working. It's important not to let things get in your head and then just sitting and stewing about it. Can't give them the time of day. Divert, divert, divert. Well done.
  10. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    exactly, you can't think, "I miss...eating/PMOing" then your mind wil lead you into BAD THINGS HAPPENING
  11. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    I miss beer. BUT I got to have one last night because I hit my weight goal.

    Best beer ever! A single 12 ounce Anchor IPA from Anchor Brewing. In a traditional ale glass. Out on the back deck with my 17 year old son who I told all about my life long love affair with nameless women in the Internet and how our family got all screwed up.

    I told him that both mom and I screwed the marriage up and I wanted to be honest with him as to my role. That my belief was that as a man I had to acknowledge my faults, own them and then be accountable to fixing them moving forward. I told him that we believe we are all sinners and only through Jesus can we be forgiven. I told him that I had a hand in breaking the marriage and I wanted him to know. I told him that I wouldn't trash his mom or list the ways she contributed.

    Told him about how I started with porn. About how it escalated. And how it included chatting, talking on the phone. Told him that in some eyes that was cheating. But that in the psychology of addictions it was just me responding to desensitization. Thanked God midway through the conversation that as a high school junior he had an AP Psychology class. At some point in the discussion he said "that a Dompamine response. Addictions are funny things Dad. You'll be ok." Or something like that.

    He and I are square. He went to bed knowing his Dad was human. He's seen me try to fix the plumbing. So he already knew that.

    My first weekend of the separation.

    Football scrimmage to watch this morning.
    Then taking the boys to a shooting range to make some noise.

    Going to be a good day.

  12. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Funny. I had to log in to see how many days I had gone. I'm on 12, so I'll start the week ending my 2nd week.

    I don't think about PMO anymore.

    I suppose I'm flatlining at the moment but I'm beyond that desire for panic tug to make sure it is still there.

    When I get life put back together enough to go on a date (er, find a date, remember how to ask a woman out on a date, how to act on a date, clean my truck, pick her up and not spill all over myself ... I might worry about whether I am flatlining or not).

    For now, life is balanced.

    I do feel like I'm doing great at rebooting if rebooting is about shutting the system down and bringing it back up.

    I don't feel I'm doing well rewiring if rewiring is about finding out who the new me is and how that person is going to fill his time. My worst at the moment is that I can burn a day up doing nothing. I used to be PMOing or finding a way to support my PMO habit. Now, like Friday as an example, I can just do nothing because I don't know what to do. The doing is more about no FAP and no PMO than it is about moving forward.

    So here is to moving forward between days 13 and 21.
  13. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    how many days with no P, no M, did you reach flatline

    Keep up the good work, man!
  14. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    How many days until I hit flatline?

    No clue.

    I just noticed I was today though I imagine I was earlier in the week.

    With all the crap going on in life right now other than the stress driven urges to PMO, I've not thought much about sex at all.
  15. RedPillRebooter

    RedPillRebooter New Member

    It's also very healthy. I read an article recently about how bad it is to sit down all day. It said you're better off doing frequent light exercise (like you did, or a treadmill desk, etc.) than sitting all day then going home and working out vigorously. Off course it's better to do both if possible. However, sitting long periods is a health risk and you can't reverse it solely by exercising after work.

    Kudos on talking with your son. I think you really needed to do that. Sounds like it went well, too. Even though porn is more available than ever, I hope the younger generation sees the consequences and avoids it more than their parents.
  16. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    I hit two weeks.

    I feel fabulous!

    The old PMO life is still enough of a recent memory that I can tell a huge difference between PMO me and the real me. The real me is a lot more fun to be around.

    I told my 17 year old son the other night.

    Today he said ... "Dad, you seem so much more like Dad."

    Most of the talk on here is about how we are going through this hell we started by getting hooked on porn and how awful it is we can't get hard and have a normal sex life. And then we talk some of how our SO in a relationship is impacted. But I think if we are real this addiction hurts us in non-sexual ways. And more importantly it hurts people we love, people that we have non-sexual relationships in ways we don't think about.

    Dad, you seem so much more like Dad ... that's what this is all about for me.

  17. midge

    midge Guest

    Well done, RD! Two solid weeks down. You are really facing down some challenging situations. And congrats on having that talk with your son; that had to be a tough one, but what a gift to him. Very happy for you, man.
  18. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Mondays are going to be ridiculously difficult days for a while.

    Wife and I have a financial / issues meeting prior to our family dinner which we are committed to having to keep the kids together.

    So I come to work after a ridiculously emotional time.

    I grew up in a divorced family. We did the split but it was on my brother and I to deal with the emotions of the split.

    This "nesting" we are doing keeps the kids in the house but puts the stress of the switch on the parents. I feel 12 again! And that is not a good thing.

    No PMO risk today. But I am fragmented and distracted and inefficient. I know that in the past I would be enjoying myself and my online girlfriends about now. I need to figure out how to cut all that inefficiency out. In the end I'll be fine and more productive. But for now I am uncomfortable.
  19. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Yesterday was brutal.

    I cleaned up the residual PMO noise in my head after a brutal cross fit workout.

    My box has a 930 Monday class and I am going to start going to that and then showering at the office. Monday's really aren't so bad if I can reset the noise after the joys of Sunday. So a 930 workout will get me back in action better and before a 530 workout.

    I think that fitness activities are a huge part of this reboot process. I think it is essentially male to lift things and be physical. I think it is unessentially male to tap instead of chasing girls. So fitness is an easily available means to return ourselves to being more male.
  20. Syd

    Syd New Member

    RD, good work on the 2+ weeks. I agree 100% about the need for physicality in this process, as a reminder of who we are as guys. I'm not much of a schedule-focused person by nature, but having a workout planned at X time gives me something to focus on before, and to be proud of after. Keep up the good work.

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