Well look who is here .... UGH.

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by ruggerdoug, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Strange times for me. And there is a pandemic!

    I'm dating. Wendy. She's cute, fit, fun, intelligent, professional .. shares a lot of interests with me .... aware and understanding of my ED and porn issues ....

    That we met right before our state's stay at home orders hit ... and because our state allowed small groups .. we have been able to use this crazy time to really get to know one another ... it has been talks, walks, home cooked meals etc. I've enjoyed all that as opposed to the beginnings of a relationship where you are trying (at least me) to impress with the dates .... this has been relaxed, deep and fun.

    We've been going out almost 2 months now. Yes, we are getting naked and having fun. Yes, sometimes it doesn't work the way I would like. She's been really patient. And on that front things have slowly progressed with it working more and more over time.

    BUT ...

    1. I'm struggling with rebound temptations after we've been together for a night .... there's a definite pattern to it ....
    2. I really like this woman. We click on so many different levels. It is - I think - the most comfortable relationship I've ever been in. In my past I've been in these passionate relationships where I would almost be obsessive about her, whoever she was. This isn't like that. On one hand that feels good and healthy. On the other hand it feels like something is missing. Two months in I'm neither making a life time decision or walking away (swiping right?) to see who else might be out there. But it is something I think about. Am I going to be comfortable with a healthy relationship pattern?

    I am here today because I know the two things are interrelated.

    I feel much stress over the fact that I am in what appears to be a healthy relationship. I feel a tug to go find something unhealthy.

    Consciously I want the healthy relationship. I want to keep my O's to times with her. I do not feel shame at "cheating" on her by PMO. But I realize if I am to further my commitment to her PMO is "the other woman".

    Subconsciously ... I've spent a lot of good alone time through this social distancing .... deep down I don't feel I deserve healthily finances, healthy relationships, etc. It is that subconscious that tugs at me. I do not know how to rewire those deep negative thoughts.

    Boxer17, Thelongwayhome27 and Gil79 like this.
  2. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Laying in bed fighting myself. I’ve come to the realization that I’m more comfortable with the turmoil than I am with being in a healthy relationship. It seems as if I have more work to do! That’s not what I want in life. The glimpses of this healthy relationship give me a very important new perspective.
  3. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Signed up for a 3-day challenge at nofap.

    Trying to be more aware of my urges.

    Seems as if late morning I get anxious. Extremely tempted to fap at the moment. Or at least look at something.


    Feeling overwhelmed with tasks today. And that is raising the anxiety.

    Taking 45 minutes to fap, O and then follow up nap will not fix the problem of me having too many tasks though I will feel better in the moment. Trade off is that I will feel better for a bit and then wake up to the same place I am in right now.

    Better to call myself out here and go back to knocking some tasks off. I'm working toward a 1 pm walk with the dog instead.

  4. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    Rugger, I've been wondering how things have been going for you. I'm super happy you've found someone who you connect with so well. I totally understand the position you're in. I tell myself daily that PMO could destroy the good thing I've got going. We've been at this long enough to know that urges can dissipate for long stretches, only to come crashing back in waves. To stave off the pull to fap, or peek, or whatever you know you shouldn't do, you must remind yourself that you DESERVE this girl. You DESERVE happiness. Whatever voice is telling you that falling off the wagon is worth it, or your destiny, or all the other bullshit we tell ourselves to feed the addict, just know where it will bring you. Give yourself the gift of doing what I know you can do. I'm right there with you, man. Now is the time to face the demon and kick it in the teeth. You can do this, my friend.
  5. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    And then just like that I'm almost at 2 days and solid ...

    @Mozenjo lots to say this morning. It has been a good (positive) long week. Even with the front of the week invaded with PMO the week has been good. Up drinking a coffee getting ready for the 12 foot commute to work. Thinking. Lots of thoughts but the one that sticks out is that issue I have with the word DESERVE. I know I DESERVE a woman in my life, a healthy relationship, financial stability, fitness .... but I do not FEEL I deserve it. Reading your comments I feel shame. Rugger has some work to do ....

    I think I've told Wendy I love her like 3 times since we crossed that thresh hold a few weeks ago. I told my ex wife I loved her about 27 times a day when our marriage was ok. I told Alicia that constantly. That's been my MO. In retrospect I was dropping that out in exchange for them saying it. It was weak sauce because I was insecure. I feel secure in my relationship with Wendy. In most ways this is the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. Yes, I deserve it! Truthfully, though, I don't know what to do with that. No, that's not accurate. I feel awkward with it sometimes. We talk about that which is one of the reasons it is healthy.

    The boys are all very accepting of Wendy. That makes it easier. Everyone blends together very easily.

    More coffee. More thoughts. But I need to go to work.

  6. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Good long sleep last night. Solid at 2 days. Morning wood. I usually get morning wood just after a couple of days of no PMO and a good night's sleep. You'd think I'd try to sleep more!

    Actually, if I'm in bed alone. If Wendy were over my morning wood is shy. Hint that my ED may not be all porn / MO related.

    Beautiful day out today. Work to do. Going to get a workout in. Try to find some time to reflect on where things are.

    This is review time at work. We review our bosses as well as our peers and co-workers 360 style. Totally humbled by mine.

    There is a HUGE gap between what people said about me and what I feel like I deserve.

    I truly don't even know how to begin working on that. But that is the next obstacle to tackle.

  7. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    I'm sure the morning wood will be just as strong when the GF is there when you get some distance from PMO. But you're right; ED is not just PMO related. What I'm finding is that being comfortable with your mate and not rushing things works wonders.
    As for your peers' review of your performance, I'm sure most of us would be humbled by that experience. I know I've got a lot of holes in my managerial style. Hearing others point them out is not usually fun. But definitely helpful if the comments are made without malice.
    Keep up the good work, and have a nice weekend with Wendy.
  8. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    3 days without a Zoom meeting!

    And two days without PMO.

    I'm having a fantastic weekend. Friday night it was dinner with Wendy and her girls. Saturday it was a few hours hiking with my best friends then a solid workout then time in the garden.

    Things have progressed with Wendy. She lives in a small college town on the other side of our metro area. I'll be moving there in the Fall after my boys go back to college. I've been processing that for a while. It feels like the right decision for a whole bunch of reasons.

    Not that this relationship isn't odd to me. Most of my relationships in the past have started at a 9-11 on a scale of 1-10. Passionate, obsessive, emotional starts that then either super heated and blew up (oh, I have stories!) or ran out of fuel and just coasted to a stop (my marriage, Alicia). They started out all about gratification, sexual and otherwise. I felt like I would die without them in my life almost as soon as we met even though I was just fine the moment before I knew they existed. In hindsight I think only my relationship my junior and senior year of college started differently.

    Wendy and I talk and plan. We share the dark ugly that we both carry with us. She met my ex wife last week at my son's graduation party and did fantastic! The contrast between the two women at the party last week was an eye opener. She is a great friend and partner already. We cover each others weaknesses well but we don't try to hide them from each other. On one hand it feels amazing to have a partner -- and I'm gracious for the pandemic because our first few dates were home projects because you couldn't do anything else! We figured out pretty quickly that we think the same way even though I'm more big picture and she's more details.

    I realize those 9/11 (boy is that name right) starts to my past relationships are tied to the emotional hole I have in me that I try to use PMO and other things to self medicate. When I met my ex that hole was particularly large and it left me to blindly marry someone I shouldn't even have been dating. I met Alicia when my addiction was raging and the hole the biggest it had ever been in life. Other women I've not mentioned here came and went because of that hole not because I necessarily cared for them, enjoyed their company or really wanted to spend time with them beyond sating addiction's desire.

    I miss Alicia. Truth. I miss the passion ... the energy of being obsessed with being a woman 20 years younger than me. I acknowledge know that my connection to her was in part unhealthy because of my emotional and addictive state. I realize we would not have lasted. I don't sit around at night missing her. I don't obsess on the comparison between her and Wendy.

    I just need to admit somewhere that there's still a portion of me -- and I understand it is the unhealthy portion -- that still misses her and likely always will.

    But Wendy! The difference between this relationship and the others is twofold. I think this odd start, this healthy mature beginning is because I have made so much progress over the last 4+ years. Or rather I met a woman who is healthy when I am predominantly healthy. Profound

    I am still struggling. Counter is at 2 days. I feel the pull less and less but it is still with me. My depression and anxiety are still strong triggers. Not getting enough sleep, drinking too much the day before, work stress, too much screen time (DAMN Zoom Meetings), not being physically active all contribute to the continued struggle.

    The contrast of fighting it when there is a woman in my life that I enjoy sex with (we've had intermittent good sex and a lot of non-intercourse fun; she's patient when things don't work and it is working more and more as we go) v. just fighting it is tremendous. Remembering the days of when everything worked and running those memories through my head used to be a trigger. It is not motivation.

    Enjoy the long weekend whoever reads this word salad! Stay off of Zoom and live some life! I am!

    Mozenjo likes this.
  9. Clovis6

    Clovis6 Active Member

    “Consciously I want the healthy relationship. I want to keep my O's to times with her. I do not feel shame at "cheating" on her by PMO. But I realize if I am to further my commitment to her PMO is "the other woman". “

    That stopped me in my tracks. I have never thought about cheating on any girlfrield by seeing another woman, and yet I have cheated on every woman that I’ve had an intimate relationship with, with PMO as “the other woman”. I never even thought of it in those terms, even though it is so obvious now.

    Thanks for posting that. I want to have an intergrity of character, I’m so tired of people having low integrity that this gives me extra motivation to quit PMO. It just goes to show how an addiction really distorts what we think is okay to do or not.
    Mozenjo likes this.
  10. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    Hey there D
    I hear ya man. I don't have much in words of wisdom but wanted to acknowledge your situation. Do what you can to keep building with your woman. Its hard to find a good one
  11. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    @Boxer17, I have found a great one. I have been through a number of women who had more baggage than me and who weren't managing it and a number of women have been through me when they get a glimpse of my baggage.

    I always felt the desire for a woman in a similar spot as me -- high standards but a suitcase of things to work on. She 's got some relationship baggage, a crazy ex, some money problems b/c of the crazy ex ... but she at 47 is still building toward a vision similar to mine. So many just give up. I haven't. And then so many discard people with baggage. I have been. Been on first dates where she pulls out my background check and asks about my credit score. Not here. We've openly shared and actually are both supportive of the other working things out.

    She attractive, charismatic, active, intelligent .... there is a future here.

    @Clovis6, thank you for the comment. I have been here a while to say the least. It took me a long time to get to that point.
  12. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Bad day. Temptation is raging. Last night Wendy and I had a less than 10 line text exchange that was flirty not directly sexual. I won't see her until the weekend. The desire to PMO is out hot and heavy today and I know it was from that brief exchange.

    Sometimes I'm cool. She can stay over, we can play around, things work or not and the next day I'm fine.
    Sometimes I'm not so cool. She can stay over, we can play around, things work or not and the next day I'm tempted to rebound PMO.
    Other times it is just a few words like today.

    There is a tie to drinking. I had my first face to face business meeting last night and we had drinks. Not many but enough. Sometimes I am no affected but other times it is an obvious trigger.

    It all lines up and I get in the mood I'm in today.

    Trouble is that it is all intermittent. It is also fortunately happening less and less. But it still happens. And it happens without drinking on the front end.

    I hate it when it happens. I feel overwhelmed, out of control.

    Working from home makes it worse because the temptation is to "leave work" and go upstairs. I'm in that irrational part of the chain where even as dumb a choice as that seems typing it out it makes perfect sense in the moment.

    I am typing this out because if I process these thoughts inside I'm going to lose it and give in.

    I'm going to go take a cold shower.

    Boxer17 likes this.
  13. Clovis6

    Clovis6 Active Member

    Someone on the forum, I can’t remember their name off the top of my head, recommended journaling, which I’ve started to give a go. What what I gather, by putting it down on paper, or typing it out it enables us to process it on a whole differently level than if we keep things inside our head and try to work it all out in there. I know through personal experience that trying to work out things solely in my head hasn’t exactly worked out too well for many areas of my life.
  14. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    Hey there RD. I totally hear you!!
    Sometimes I wish we members could engage in real time chat. When we're teetering on the brink of giving in.
    The other day I was watching for a lady getting out of her car hoping for a glimpse of leg. My better self said "stop" I went and quickly watched some "best of" action movie clips on YouTube and the few minutes of distraction derailed the previous thought process.
    I know what you mean though. Sometimes one gets what I call "the fever" and it's like a pitbull has you in its grip
    It sounds though like you have found a good woman for you. Good on you!!
    Cultivate that relationship. Maybe,if possible ,you two could arrange to spend extra time together
    In many ways you're moving in positive directions
  15. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Up early because today is a work day. Wendy just left.

    I realize that some of my trouble this week was because our schedules clashed all week and we didn't get a chance to see each other. Some of the agitation that led to my PMO this week was because of that. I want to be able to manage those gaps or once we are together business trips and the like will be traps. I'm pretty solid with a steady dose of her in my life. It is the time in between as I think about things where I'm challenged. Knowing that I think I can manage this a bit differently and more successfully as it is just a matter of making it a few hours or until the next day, etc. I really want to get into an only O with Wendy stance. Working toward it.

    Off the PMO topic .... @Boxer17, I am moving in positive directions. You know I've been here a long time. The trend line has always been up though the ride has been a roller coaster. My 18 year old is struggling with himself over finding the perfect Summer job. He is not working. He has one place he could get on the schedule tomorrow but won't because it doesn't make him feel good. Drives Dad nuts! But that's because the wisdom at 55 that tells me feeling good isn't immediate and you sometimes have to do the hard work to get where you want even if it takes a long time. @Mozenjo and I joined here about the same time. Sometimes I look at both of us and think "what a couple losers" for sticking around. Truth is we aren't (@Mozenjo you know that's the furthest from how I really feel) losers for sticking around b/c to shake this bad habit, terrible addiction you have to undo things from your past that you don't even know are there. Then you have to train the old dog (this is the old dog age group) to approach most aspects of life differently. It isn't quick. And then I realize that there have been a lot of men here who were grinding it out, working on it that just disappear. I worry about them sometimes when I jump on here and the board is quiet. I learned once that it takes 5-7 years for a guy to recover from a divorce. My addiction recovery is right in line with my divorce. It'll be 5-7 years before I get this all right. And that's ok because I know I'll get it right.

    And, yes, over the years @Boxer17, I've wanted the ability to immediately connect. There used to be more traffic here and in a crisis you could find a distracting conversation. Not so much anymore. I wish that wasn't true.

    I'm relaxed this morning. It is beautiful outside. I've had some time to think about this pandemic. In some ways the results have been positive though I'm not liking that this doesn't ever seem to want to end.

    Here are some of the positives:

    1. Met Wendy in conditions that fostered a deep healthy relationship quickly.
    2. Spent 4 weeks in near lock down with my middle son and now know him much better than ever before.

    And then in no particular order:

    3. Put a garden in for the first time in 5 years. I find gardening peaceful. Wendy and I did it as a date when the world here was closed.
    4. Figured out how to manage the volume of work I have to handle.
    5. Have developed a number of close business relationship (new and near friendships) regularly interacting with colleagues over zoom.
    6. Figured out a food prep routine that will carry through when things come back to some level of normal.
    7. Put together my garage gym again after 4 years of not having one. It is not perfect (my boys call it the "prison gym" but it works and I have plans to add to it).
    8. Decided my next move after 4 years here. With my youngest leaving for college I am free to live anywhere I want. I'm moving in with Wendy in a small college town near the city I'm in after he leaves for school in the Fall.

    All of that in a bundle is more than just positive directions. I feel good with where I am right now. I need to revisit this post when I feel that "fever" tugging at me. I would love to be able to say:

    9. Gained confidence in bed that things will work more often than not because I've been able to keep my hands off me and my eyes off things they don't need to see.

    But getting to #9 is still a work in progress.

    Boxer17, Mozenjo and Libertad like this.
  16. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    Yes, that's where I want to be with my GF as well. No fap, no arousal. That's what it's going to take. Having a real woman who is in the middle of that can be both a blessing and a curse. You mentioned in another post how the day after real sex still brings the urge for dopamine again, just as it does the day after PMO. The chaser effect is non-discriminatory. Lizard brain wants what the lizard brain wants. The GF made a comment the other night (when I was telling her how good I felt being with her) that "that's just the dopamine talking". Ouch. I told her, yeah, maybe, but what's great is that I still feel that way after we have sex.
    Amen to all of that. It has been difficult hanging on here when I know that some guys see us as weak. Before he was removed from this site, Wild Bill called the likes of us long-timers here "weak ass pussies" for not "mustering the will power to stop jacking off to porn". That hurt. I thought he was a real ass for saying that. And maybe he was. But it hurt because I've often thought the same thing about myself. However, I agree with the point you're making here, Rugger, because through the ups and downs and near successes and many failures, progress has been made. I see us coming out of this successfully, whether it takes 5 to 7 years (we're now at 6 here!) or longer. I don't want it to be longer. I'm so done with this addiction I can't stand it.
    Yup. Keeping working on it. It's the only good choice we have.
    Boxer17 likes this.
  17. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    @Mozenjo I was called out a few years ago .. not by Wild Bill but someone else ... for spending so much time worrying about the emotional details and not just quitting. The weak ones are the ones that come and play with quitting for a while and then quit the quitting. I've done that from time to time but hate this enough to keep coming back. Weak? No, fuck whoever says that. Complicated? I'll take complicated.

    This isn't just about waiting long enough to get confident with my erections again and then to move on.

    The things that I'm working on are fundamental things that have blocked success and relationships for years ... and have fueled PMO .... it isn't and never has been about the PMO, the PIED ... it is about being whole and healthy as a person. I spent 50 years of my life letting my environment help me make a mess of all that. That it takes 10% of that to fix it to the point that I'm healthy and that I'm willing to invest the energy to keep at it? Complicated not weak.

    She stayed over last night. I'm wary of the chaser but feel resilient toward it. Doing this in a relationship is not new to me but it is new to her. And it's been so long. But I feel progress all the time.

    Hope it is as beautiful there as it is here!

    Mozenjo and Boxer17 like this.
  18. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    Well said RD
    I am so happy for you sir!
  19. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Structural change usually involves tearing down a lot of the structure. In my business, that's called a remodel. We're remodeling ourselves: we will keep what's good and change what isn't.
    You are making great progress!

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