Well look who is here .... UGH.

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by ruggerdoug, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    @Sidd ... extremely profound thoughts particularly the tactic of flipping "trigger" to "excuse" and "lonely" to "solitude". I did some reading tonight regarding solitude and alone time. Lots of work for me to unpack things here. I'm most definitely fearful of something or perhaps somethings. I could guess at it but I think it requires some deeper thought than just the obvious low hanging fruit.

    One of the things I read was profound. Alone in its origins as a word was about being one with God not about being isolated like we think of it these days. I've been alone hiking. I've been alone driving lately as I'll more and more grow tired of talk radio and bland music and just drive. But at night or at the office or in the house or many other times I can't tolerate the aloneness, the downtime, the inactivity.

    I chose as one of my top 15 values in the Recovery Workshop "relax with purpose". I had a killer workout tonight. I am exhausted. That calmed the crazy edge I've had since I PMO'd last week. I'll always want to workout that hard. But I should be able to calm that edge alone.

    @leannfit ... I am afraid of something but for me it is not a fear of being left out .... I am unsure of what it is ... fear of success? fear of being left alone? fear of being left?

    @Mozenjo ... yes, I think you are right ...there was a marked difference in me for most of the day today particularly when I woke up. I did PMO and reset today so there may have been a touch of false bravado in that good morning. But this conclusion about feeling lonely seems enormous.

    I'm self curious as to why I felt so alone when the friendship with Alicia was building ... I felt so alone that I acted out and destroyed that friendship ... lots to think about.

    Thank you guys for your support!

  2. Nofapado

    Nofapado Guest

    Sidd the idea that the relief comes from the choice to view P and not the actual PMO is an interesting observation. The actual act of PMO is very stressful, it is the feeling of the hungry ghost, a being with a tiny mouth and a huge appetite.
  3. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Progress can be ugly.

    Over the last 10 days I have failed a couple of times but I've learned:

    -that loneliness has a huge role in my addiction,
    -that viewing triggers as excuses helps me fend their effect off,
    -to embrace the concept of reviewing my list of values whenever I feel the urge (Recovery Nation trick)
    -that of a couple of books to read.

    I believe investigating loneliness and solitude are important for me. I think that investigation will be quite a journey in and off itself, but one that is key to me licking this.

    I don't feel any stronger today than I did yesterday or the day before. But if I am tempted to succumb to an excuse my first move is to look at my values. My first value is to get closer to God. PMOing isn't going to fulfill that value. There are 14 more values in my top value list that also don't involve PMO. I believe that looking at that and processing the temptation against the tool arms me better for the battle.

    Keep your hands off yourself and go do something manly!

  4. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    I am working through understanding the patterns of my rituals (as Recovery Nation refers to it).

    I've rooted loneliness out as a excuse to start acting out. Boredom is a close cousin.

    The more I think about the mess I made last week the more I think I do what I do sometime to sabotage me and the good I have in my life. Why is the question.

    Last week I had a strong friendship with a beautiful 29 year old woman. She was intelligent, athletic, affectionate and in many ways complimentary to me. We spent most of our time together hiking. Yes, it was physical at times, but not to the exclusion of other things. And she knew about my addiction and was supportive of my work.

    As I shared earlier in a 3 day rage (triggered by being seen out in public with her by friends who didn't know Jodi and I were divorcing, not being able to see her on Saturday and, frankly, my inability to deal with a 2-plus week no PMO run that had my wood standing firm at a slight breeze) I first sent her some inappropriate comments/demands and then rekindled a conversation with an old CL contact. In the haze I accidentally sent a message to Alicia instead of the CL woman. Busted. Game over as I said before.

    I spent a good amount of time last night just quietly sitting in my room trying to feel alone ... solitude.

    And it popped in to my head. I knew when I sent that email I had sent it to Alicia. I woke up in the middle of the night, sent the email, laid back down .. and I remember now thinking that I had sent it to Alicia .. not in a paniced thought but just a matter of fact thought. I think my subconscious "did it on purpose".

    I mean I think I intentionally sabotaged the relationship. Why?

    You guys ever catch yourself doing this?
  5. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    sounds like you were afraid of going to a new level with alicia, since your ex wife is still screwing you(figuratively) and the CL contact was a safe haven to get some thoughts out that are driving you crazy with the No-PMO
    I don't understand, no PMO, but sex with a woman is not PMO, why not have sex with alicia?
  6. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    In hindsight I was terrified of going to another level. I knew some of it. The timing was awful. She was younger and that was going to multiply issues. While my wife (or ex or whatever the label is) is ok with a bf being a part of the mix I was not ready yet to visibly be out of the marriage. And I made a bad decision to date my wife in the first place.. Was I making that same mistake this time?

    I don't really have a lot of room right now for big mistakes.

    I didn't realize the rest of it until after the fact. I was terrified of making a decision to be serious and have that be wrong and then have that part of my life fail. I have little $$ feel fragile that way.

    And we have had sex. I wrote about it a few weeks ago. I've not done a blow by blow accounting of it. That is how she knew of my issues. Sometimes things wouldn't work. And she was fine with that.

    The perfect storm was I had gone 17 days with no PMO, had sex with her that week and felt a tremendous urge to have sex again; was waking up with morning wood that was a completely strange phenomenon to me. We were to get together that Saturday; she got held over at work and I had Dad duties that evening. Next day I wanted to go on a hike and she had her mother in town. Monday she had to work all day and I was back to the kids that night for the week.

    So Monday night I'm in a total rage going through this ridiculous PMO - no PMO pendulum swing. She falls asleep while we are texting. I feel lonely, rejected, abandoned and go into my sent emails in my gmail account and start sending emails to CL contacts from months ago. And start edging. I'm waking up in the middle of the night checking messages and continuing to edge. This is the worst I've been in months. One of the CL girls writes back. We go back and forth. I fall asleep. I wake up early early morning and send Alicia a message intended for the CL girl. BOOM.

    I was such a fucking asshole with her, too, before the email was sent. I was expecting the sex not the companionship with sex. At one point she said I think this is a good exercise for you in self control. And she was right! And then normal life stuff got in her way as it was in mine and we couldn't get together. And I couldn't resist.

    So there .. that's the story.

    I could have had sex with Alicia. Lots of it. And a relationship. And a relationship that existed with the full knowledge that I was fending off a demon. Instead of planting a bomb in it I could have shared with her my fears and crafted something that would have worked through my separation to divorce. It wasn't like she was going to start living with me and the kids. My fears, irrational as they were, boiled my emotions up which was magnified by a surging libido and I jumped back into the addiction to cope.

    Had she caught me surfing porn it wouldn't have been a big deal. So I had to send her a short and risque message with another girl's name in it in a half asleep state. Brilliant move wasn't it? A 2 dimensional never going to meet might as well be a vid star girl. But how do most women who respect themselves react when we cross that line?

    So the irony ... I felt alone in the moment and acted out in inappropriate ways that ended a promising relationship so now I am alone ... though I'm optimistic because I learned that I fear being alone and that is a big part of this addiction for me.

    The roller coaster ride in this corner of the theme park the last 10 days has not been fun.
  7. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    AND ...

    that was a long rant ... but the point is this ... other than I hurt Alicia deeply and completely lost her friendship ... there are several positives ... I fucked up and know why I fucked up more clearly than any time I've been dealing with this ... and I've immersed myself in the process now where before I was working but not immersion ... it has been the difference between a short language class and complete immersion in a culture ... it sucks that it took one more major screwup to take my intensity and committment up a notch but it did ...

    I wake up in the morning and read scripture and pray. I do a Rev Nation workshop. I jump on here.
    I work.
    At lunch I read here, do something else on Rev Nation.
    I work.
    At the end of the day I come here and do something on Rev Nation.
    I workout or play practice Rugby.
    I go to my room and spend at least 30 minutes in solitude (just started last night).

    I can't fathom continuing to live a life where I let this addiction be an obstacle course to my success and to women who want to love me.
  8. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    help me understand why you pray?
    you actually think it means anything, other than help you relax?

    I was an athlete and a brain in high school, which led to going to a 6yr, MD/BA school after high school
    halfway through at 21, I was a passenger in a jeep that wrecked, leaving me in a coma.
    15 yrs later, I still have speech, eye, gait issues, and dystarthria...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysarthria

    I was doing everything right, but then I stepped into a bad math problem.

    What I mean by "just math problem" is everything has probability that something bad will happen,(or does God cause you pain? why do you think some super powerful invisible being gives a shit about you? you are 1 of 6.5billlion people)
    We try to reduce the odds for bad shit to happen by not jogging in the street, not smoking in bed, not being fat: You have a higher chance of a heart attack at BMI 50, Bf% 54% and inactive, then if you are bf 15%, BMI 21.) etc praying won't change those odds, nor grow back arms for amputees

    See, you praying, seems to me, is you thinking either, some genie is going to grant you wishes, or you are not responsible for what happens to you
    (and a lot you arent, sometimes its just bad shit happens, IE bad math, so I recommend you keep up the PMO, get a gripe on your life, tell your wife to fuck off,(seems you are taking all the pain as you try to protect the kids and she is taking little/none.) write down what you want and a decision tree on how to get what you want

    I laugh when people post a problem, like my sister went to the ER last night with her 8month year old and was there ~12 hours. (kid is fine) and she mentioned it on facebook and 34 "friends" said something close to, "u r in my prayers"...I took her food. and was with her till she left....

    but you don't have to listen to me, remember, I can barely talk/I has a brraaaainnnn injury

  9. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    I pray because I have faith.

    That's my short answer.

    I'll gladly give a longer answer some other time.

    I didn't know your back story. I am glad you are here.

  10. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    Gotcha man, as long as it helps you, keep working at it,
    I'm not here to debate you or anything of that sort, I wish I had faith in something

    The only reason I'm alive is my Dad, I had given up, but I can't do something that would hurt him. So I do my best to not feel and just do.

    I realize how lucky I am to have supportive parents in my life, and when I read how you are, I see myself so much, someone who gives of themselves to help others and then doesn't get that back and ends up "shooting himself in the foot"... but keeps on helping the others in his life cause thats how he wants to be treated

    I don't envy your situation and I'll do what I can to help you out.
  11. midge

    midge Guest

    RD, I was just mulling over your last few posts. I think every one of us can identify with making an embarrassing, and probably hurtful, mistake in a relationship--sometimes abetted by PMO, sometimes not. The only ways I think I've dealt with them are to ask for forgiveness (if possible) and, whether the forgiveness comes or not, to eventually put the mistake behind me. You may eventually work things out with Alicia, maybe not. Either way you know in your heart you're working on a better path here. I think the best you can do is to apologize, explain the whole thing to her if you want to, and then let that chip fall where it may and focus on your future.

    Loneliness as a driver is understandable. But know that kicking the PMO is going to help you in that regard. You have friends, and you've had success with women before. You will find another partner, I don't doubt it. Getting PMO out of your life can only help to boost your clarity and confidence in relationships, and it's a goal well worth pursuing.

    And I'm with you--I think we all need to bring whatever spiritual or philosophical resources we have to bear on this problem.

    Sorry to see you struggling. Forgive yourself, stay on the path, and look to the future. I hope you're having a good weekend.
  12. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    @leannfit I appreciate the support. One of the blessings I have is the people that only know me from here who help and support without condition or judgement. I'm in a bad spot for sure but much of it is of my own making. The good in that is that I can change behavior and change the reality.

    @midge I'm having a good weekend. As difficult as things are they are progressing positively. I am impatient for sure! But I feel like a different person now than I was two weeks ago, a month ago, 6 months ago, a year ago ... and each different person across that time spectrum is more of the person I want to be.

    The big deal with this failure with Alicia is that she is the woman I want the man I want to be to be with when I'm done with all this. Better for her, better for me if I'd met her after all this I guess. All I can do is keep getting better.

    I've forgiven myself. What I've not done a good job of doing is moved on from it. I would like to put part of that relationship back together. It isn't going to happen in the short term. The only hope is for me to get the addiction under control (what Recovery Nation calls being able to say I am a person who used to manage life with my addiction versus an addict who is managing life with healthy choices). If that doesn't happen it doesn't matter what happens with Alicia. If it does happen then perhaps I can rekindle things; if not, I'm sure I'll find another woman to connect with and she won't have had to deal with any more pain from my work.

    Off to a JV football game!
  13. Sidd

    Sidd Guest

    Hi RD,
    That's a lot of stuff to realise and work through but it all feels like it is going in the right direction. Loneliness/ solitude and being with God. I guess we all have different perceptions about God. Some believe, some don't, some think that he is a guy in the sky and some a sustaining energy. Myself I use the word to describe the thing that keeps us all breathing and sustains everything. I also believe that to experience that presence you generally need to be quiet and mostly you need to be feeling what is inside you, behind your thoughts, behind your feelings and emotions and far below your desires. That is I think the place of solitude in which one can commune with God. Once you know that then there is nothing to be afraid of in being alone. It is usually the mind that feels lonely and bored. Maybe think about meditation as a quiet practice.

    Self- sabotage. Oh yes that's one we are probably all good at. Why ? Who knows. We have an inner belief that we are not good enough and don't deserve good things. We hate ourselves. I am going to have to sign off here but I will come back to this. Take it easy.
  14. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Great success last night sitting in quiet with myself.

    I got in around 11 and sat for nearly an hour just thinking and doodling and praying.

    Ended up going to bed at 1:15 after writing a poem to Alicia.

    And I've decided to either send it to her with flowers at work or drop it off personally in some cheesy fashion. I lost my balls long ago and dove my romantic self into taking risks online. I think it has been over a decade since I've really taken a romantic risk with a woman.

    It has been a long, long time since I've felt moved to do something like that.

    And I realize it might be a total, colossal epic fail. Stay tuned for that post! It'll be quite the story!

    But an epic fail would be a starting point for me to move on.

    And cheesy romantic risk may just be what turns the tide.

    Frankly, I realize that she was the right girl at the right time. I don't necessarily want her back in the same dynamic we had. At least not right now. I am relentlessly attacking the material on Recovery Workshop. I've got 52 more lessons to work through. My goal is to be done by 10/31. And then on that day to reevaluate and reset my goals. It wouldn't be fair to her or any other woman to get involved with me until after that milestone.

    The thing is you can't commit to being "cured". How do those of you that have working, functioning relationships manage it?

    And I need to swing some focus and energy back to the living situation and the boys.

    This last two weeks though has been breakthrough for me. Relentless commitment to the workshop. Understanding to the fact that loneliness is an issue for me. And stress to succeed. And self sabotage. I couldn't see the compulsion coming on two weeks ago. I have a good sense now of the excuses for it and the way it feels when they are building up. So progress. But so much more progress to make.

  15. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    I made a pretty audacious goal giving everything going on in my life.

    I am going to do 2 Recovery Workshop lessons a day, on average, which will put me through the whole workshop series by 10/31.

    I have a reading list of books that I am going to attack as well.

    Everything in my life that needs to be dealt with depends on my being much more emotionally mature. I won't be there in 30 days but at least if I cover the territory I'll know more about myself and how this stuff works against me.
  16. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    I am having a stressful morning. Just normal Monday stuff. Sales, project management and cash flow crap that all of us in small business deal with. I have an incredible urge to relieve that stress by closing my office door and edging or going to the bathroom to do the same. I can feel the urge. I am 100% certain as to what is causing it to come on like it is. I have written down a list of things that must be done this morning to relieve the stress. I am working through that list knowing that at the end of it I'l have less stress and feel like I've won a small victory.
  17. Brooklyn Jerry

    Brooklyn Jerry New Member

    I you have enough time to JO or edge then you have enough time to take a walk or do some exercise. Just leave your dick alone.
  18. richmart

    richmart New Member

    If you get up to close the door, just keep on walking through it to do something useful!

    I have appreciated what you have shared regarding your struggle with loneliness. This has been a big issue with me in my separation and has lead to a period of excessive drinking along with porn use. Recently I have been doing a lot of reading about solitude and have been trying to flip the switch from feeling lonely to practicing solitude. For me it has become apparent that I have got to learn to be okay with my own company if I am going to leave these compulsive behaviors behind.
  19. Sidd

    Sidd Guest

    Hi RD,
    Going back to your taking a romantic risk. I think it is a good idea. Even if the lady does not accept your apology or does but still calls it a day it has to be good for you to demonstrate that you understand the need for forgiveness, the need for remorse and that you are not afraid to be vulnerable. You are very honest here and I suggest that you be honest with your friend. As you describe her as the woman that you would like the man that you want to be to be with then it must be worth a try. Best of luck and I will be interested to hear how it goes. Keep strong.
  20. leannfit

    leannfit New Member

    so simplistic and so accurate

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