Updates from successful and unsuccessful rebooters

Discussion in 'Erectile Dysfunction / Delayed Ejaculation' started by Bilbo Baggins, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. Bilbo Baggins

    Bilbo Baggins Active Member

    Hello fellow rebooters,

    I am creating this thread about a specific issue. I am sure you will agree with me that we are still in the experimental step of figuring out the real effects of porn on libido and the way out of PIED and related problems through rebooting. The recovery forums are a laboratory about a lot of things related to porn and rebooting.

    I have been rebooting for 179 days. I follow the guidelines from YBOP, and spend a lot of time here and on Reboot Nation to read how things are going for men rebooting right now and to read the advices from fellow rebooters. I think by following YBOP’s guidelines, we have the foundations for a clean reboot. But I feel we are still using a pretty old model. This book was written a few years ago, and I believe things have changed a bit ever since. A lot of us need more than 6-12 months to recover, and many guys seem to need to go hard mode for a while in order to heal. You get the point: we need some sort of new guide for how to reboot. We are not the same generation than the one for whom YPOB was written. We are close to it, but most of us are a little more fucked up by the addiction than our predecessors. Younger guys, because they started very young with high speed internet porn. Older guys too, because they have been using it for a quite a while (15-20 and even more years).
    On YBOP, there is an important focus on rewiring. But many users today are following the ´no arousal’ method, because they think we have to stay away from sex too, and not only from P and M. There are also guys (including me) who have sex but avoid orgasming.
    I would be very interested in having some sort of guide for the new generation of rebooters. As I said, we somehow have all the basic info we need through YBOP and the forums, but there is a lack of information about how to deal with your reboot when you have started very young on high speed internet porn, or if you have been dealing with PIED for 10-15 or 20 years. For most of us, a 90 day reboot won’t be enough. Especially if we keep having sex or masturbating without porn. YBOP says that you have to decide on your own what works for yourself. Gary Wilson also said that the duration of reboots have increase a lot in the last years. I guess that sums up what we know so far about what we have to do in order to heal from PIED and related problems.
    So I am creating this thread with the hope of collecting data about guys who went a long time rebooting. At least 6 months without P, hopefully without M. Or about guys who have been rebooting for even longer than that. And I am talking about rebooters who cured PIED and also guys who haven’t yet. With that I would hope to be able to understand more precisely what seem to be the best ways to reboot. Is rewiring the key, or is it the no arousal way? Or a mix of the two? And what about having sex without orgasming (which is what I am doing), can it actually help to recover from PIED?

    I have read a lot of success stories from YBOP and have found only 10 or 15 (from severe cases who took more than 90 days to heal) in which I could find this kind of data. Though really often, the process of the rebooter is not really well described (how many days without P, without M, without O, without sex, and other things they have changed in their lives). Most of all, I would like to know what really worked for guys who healed and what doesn’t seem to work for guys who are still not recovered after rebooting for a while. I have some sort of understanding about all this, thanks to the many accounts I have read in the last months. But I am sure some of you will agree that it would be helpful to have more specific and actual data on all of this.

    I will finish this post with an inquiry for guys who successfully rebooted. It would be very helpful for guys who are still in the process of rebooting to hear what you have to say about how you did it, and what you think really helped you to heal. If you can, come back on the forum and share advice. Same thing for guys who are not yet recovered after a few years: what have you tried, what doesn’t seem to work, and what mistakes have you done that future rebooters could avoid doing? Especially for guys in a relationship, it can be pretty difficult to know what’s best for a proper reboot. Should we try to rewire, or should we avoid sex for a while? Or a mix of the two?

    Feel free to bring your inputs on this subject. I am not sure what I am talking about is actually reasonable, but I know we don’t have enough data yet to have a clear idea of the whole process of rebooting. It could be very helpful to try to actualize the guidelines we have on rebooting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  2. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    Great idea,

    I'll preface some thoughts with a disclaimer.. I'm yet to have ever considered myself 'recovered'. I have however been approximately 6 months without P in the past.

    Watching P has done more than give us PIED and social anxiety. It has strongly influenced our values and ambitions. The need to de-pedestalize sex, arousal, Women and ultimately porn is something I believe is not discussed enough. When I say de-pedestalize Women I mean not allowing 'amount of Female attention' to be a basis of self worth. Porn has definitely taught us to do that.

    Porn manages to weave arousal and sex into our future visions and ambitions for life. Until recently my primary concern has always been "Okay how long until I have 100% boners everyday so I can have sex with lots of Women all the time", swapping out a porn addiction for a sex addiction. Obviously this doesn't make a very good model for recovery because, well, our limbic brains already have 'lots of sex with lots of Women' in the form of watching porn. It provides a greater novelty high than being a real life player ever will. So that player ambition is instantly achieved and recovery becomes moot.

    I'd like to hear comments on this, how people view their future selves.. As a player? Faithful husband? Single? Maybe I'm a combination of a sex and porn addict while others aren't?

    When I used to think about being recovered it was always 1:1 with thinking about being a player. Nothing wrong with wanting sex, or Female attention. But it can't be the pinnacle of ones aspirations if they don't want to be an addict, that's a contradiction of values.

    In having the goal of healing PIED to 'be a player', the focus of well-being is coming from an external source. I've caught myself doing it at the gym "is she looking? is she looking?". Desperation, simp behavior. This keeps the addiction alive, porn REALLY makes us feel wanted and desired. Encouraging the sense of needing to be wanted by Women ("is she looking?") encourages us to look at P to feel that desire.

    I think it's important to point out to guys who started young that much of the structure of their ambitions are likely built upon sex pedestalization. Besides simply not looking at P, many guys will need to learn to de-pedastalize arousal, sex and Women and de-simp themselves.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2020
  3. Bilbo Baggins

    Bilbo Baggins Active Member

    Great post.

    I also think that growing up on porn has molded our psyche very deeply. But I think our whole civilization promotes values of this kind. The ultimate goals in this world are to be powerful, rich and to be desired by all women. Porn probably just exacerbates this. At some point, anything that lives is caught in this dynamic. Animals fight each other to death just to obtain females. So I guess there is something universal (no pun intended) in this quest for unlimited sexual conquests. It doesn’t mean that it’s good: it just means that it’s probably natural for animals and humans to pursue these goals and put them in the center of their lives.

    Happily, though, I think we can, at some point, detach ourselves from this conditioning. Actually, it can become necessary, at least for some people. If you are a sexually healthy person who enjoys having multiple partners, who can experience sex in a fulfilling way while pursuing other goals, then there is no reason to change anything. But it gets tricky if you are not good with women, if you are always depressed or anxious and have low esteem, and especially if you have PIED. I suffer from all of these. (Well I am actually not bad with women, but I’ve had chronic PIED ever since I became sexually active, so I can count on one hand the number of exciting encounters I’ve had). If you have PIED and have these values inside of you, then you will see yourself as the worst of your kind, the lowest of your species (many stupid and coarse men are higher than you on this scale, if they don’t have ED). You are far from any possibility of living a great life and probably reaching some status in this world, since PIED comes with so many other symptoms that don’t exactly encourage you to love life and try to fulfill yourself. So you get stuck in a shitty life that you hate, without any hope that it will get better someday. Unless you try to change yourself (for men with PIED, it means to heal from it) and try to become a person that has more ‘value’. A lot of us are going though this on the forum. That’s why there’s so much despair here: we feel like we are at the rock bottom of the human hierarchy.

    That’s why it’s so important to consider the things you talked about. First, because not all of us will heal (for different reasons). So if you are stuck with PIED or other sexual dysfunction, it will be a matter of survival to question your values. If you keep them as they are, you will suffer all your life. And even for the ones who will actually heal, it will become important to feel, at some point, satisfied with what you have and stop putting sex with women as the center of your life. Of course, for me, it’s what I think about all the time. Especially now that I am rebooting, since I don’t know yet if I will ever be cured. So, for now, the fact that I still have these values puts me in a situation where I feel I will only have a valuable life if I become sexually functional someday. For now, I get very bad feelings when I hear people talk about their sex lives. It makes me feel like shit in the most violent way. That’s a really bad situation for me. It’s really affecting my life dramatically, and affects almost every aspect of it. If you caught me in my most depressed moments, I would probably say to you: ‘What’s the point in living if I can’t make love to women?’ I am aware that I over exaggerate the importance of sex, but being aware of it doesn’t mean that I am getting rid of those values. I struggle with this a lot, actually. The worst part of the reboot, for me, is not the urges to watch porn: it’s to being aware of what my porn consomption did to me, and that it prevented me from living a fulfilling sex life. In my low moments, this is destroying me. I keep doing what I have to do, because I feel there is hope I heal one day, but for now it’s really bribing chaos, despair and frustration into my life. I am tremendously envious of men who don’t have ED: I sometimes get goosebumps if I think of stories I have heard from other men (or when I think about my girlfriend’s former lovers). Yeah. Gotta fox this. At some point, it’s a matter of survival, because all this can lead to suicide, since you see no hope for a good life in this set of values. If I heal one day, I will try to enjoy normality and be satisfied with it. After all, that’s what we are lookin for when we reboot, at least that’s the official version. Having sex with many women could be great too, if it’s done respectfully and not obsessively. Let’s detach ourselves from these values, guys. We should reboot to be able to function normally in the bedroom, and then be satisfied with this and keep on living our lives the best we can.
     
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  4. Bilbo Baggins

    Bilbo Baggins Active Member

    Well I thought I could ask the question in a more direct way to get some answers from other rebooters. What’s the best way to reboot (especially for guys who suffer from PIED or other dysfunctions induced by porn)? How do you guys see this? As for myself, I have been free from P and M for a little more than six months. When I reached the four month mark, I decided to stop orgasming when having sex, and to have sex as less often as possible. I have been doing this for two months now. I can’t say yet if this is working, time will tell.

    What about you, guys? What are your thoughts on this? How should guys reboot in 2020? Just write down your thoughts on this thread if you have spare time to spend will some fellow rebooters, who knows what will come out of it?
     
    Pete McVries likes this.
  5. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    Very good posts.

    Let me clarify very briefly my position on the 'being a player' thing. I'm currently in a long term monogamous relationship, I've never come close to cheating and wouldn't give it up for anything. My suspicion is the player desires are surely innate but made extreme through p use. I don't have any moral issues with players. But I do take issue with deceptive behavior when dealing with intimacy (eg. not being open from the beginning about intent).

    Anyway, about significance of this process. Ask guys whether they'd prefer to lose an arm or their Johnson and most would have a hard time making the choice. Okay, we haven't precisely lost our Johnson's but every guy with PIED feels close. So that points at the extreme significance. To my next point, I agree that the level of this significance as you stated is strongly impact by civilization.

    I do believe civilization skews our values. It's isolating (particularly in the social media era) and comes with so many 'fake rewards' our brains aren't set up to recognize and feel good about (eg. A pay check and bought food from a store is NOT the same as hunting an animal and celebrating the dinner with your tribe the same night). It's a very tangled web. Life is default very difficult, we live an era of purposelessness (hence the Jordan Peterson explosion) and we have extreme stimuli at our fingertips we're supposed to simply say "hmm, no thanks" to. I can almost guarantee if we were living in a time when we believed with absolute conviction the purpose of our lives was to go on some great crusade to serve our eternal God, family and country, we wouldn't be so impacted by having ED and certainly easier time quitting P. The dilemma being that in absence of a deep life purpose the next best thing on the block is hedonistic desires. Sure, instant gratification is mostly fine in moderation, but it's a demoralizing life calling.

    I think belief is the bedrock for making changes in life. Purpose and belief are neighbors. It's rather difficult to know how to mould ones beliefs.

    --------

    As for 'the best way to reboot'.

    This reminds me of something I heard about dieting awhile ago.. "The best diet is the one you can stick to".

    Some guys have had success Ming for the first little while because it killed their P cravings, personally Ming skyrockets my P cravings and was never an effective method for me.

    I think the absolute priority is no P and the ultimate ideal is no arousal. But everyone will have to find their method they can stick to.
     
  6. Bilbo Baggins

    Bilbo Baggins Active Member

    Thanks for this, Universal. Great post, as usual. I will miss your presence on the forum. Best of luck on this journey of yours.
     

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