[Updated] I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by WhirlwindTobias, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    So the first thing you need to do is take a gander at my counter and realise how long this journey has been. Then you can read this post and make some analysis. Sorry for the long read, skip to the bolded if you want to avoid the backstory.

    Suffice to say porn is no longer an issue. I see opportunities plenty of times, like girl X was featured in Y video but the curiosity isn't sufficient enough to check it out. Occasionally I stumble upon some nudity, sexual imagery etc but it doesn't garner any arousal. In fact it's almost comical, like an old friend I can't believe I used to hang with. I see high quality modelling pictures, and instead of desiring these women I see carbon copies of girls trying to achieve the same effect (Blonde/Brunette with big tits and ass fishing for followers on instagram). Twerking? Today's most popular attention whoring format. Yeah there are some real natural beauties out there on the internet you can stare at (when they're not wearing makeup anyway), but will you ever make love to them? No. Will you even meet them and exchange greetings? Highly doubtful. Ergo they're not even worth the worship (something many a male needs to learn).

    I continued to abstain to the present day because I set out to never masturbate again, instead getting my orgasms solely through women. My opinion of orgasms is that they are one of the most powerful forms of pleasure, and I'm a firm believer in the concept that pleasure is something to be worked for. And let's be real, masturbation requires no effort whatsoever. Acquiring a sexual partner on the other hand...

    Anyway PMO served two purposes:

    1, it was a buffer between activities. I was on the computer a lot, so it just seemed natural.
    2, my history with women was, without detail horrendous for someone my age. So, I would browse porn to fulfill my desire to get off on "hot women" and when it wasn't the porn it was to girls I had feelings for but didn't have the balls to do anything about (Read: Coping mechanism for being single)

    I accepted this situation for a while; 6 years to be exact. There's more to the story but it's not relevant to to thread, all you need to know is:

    a) My life was shit
    b) My method of turning it around was to add more fulfilling things to my life, and remove things I considered noncontributory.

    Masturbation AND Porn I wholly considered noncontributory, but deemed the former necessary. Once I learned there were many out there who had gone over a year, I threw this concept out of the window and began the life I've lived for the past 1000+ days. I had other reasons for quitting, desensitization for example but they're not relevant here. All you need to know is I saw quitting porn and masturbation as an essential ingredient to become who I wanted to be. Moving on:

    The purpose of the thread is thus:

    For a long time there have been no problems. I went a long time without sex or even handjobs, 339 days to be exact, with only had the typical flatlines and urges to deal with. After those 339 days I had occasional orgasms with different women, with lapses no longer than 2 months (accompanied by wet dreams at least once a month), each instance being just like that first year.

    However I'm in the middle of a lapse of sex now, 3 months so far but this time it's different. Why? I'm not single. I have a girlfriend who's long distance, very comfortable with her sexuality and I myself have for the first time become more comfortable with mine (I've never met anyone like her), ultimately resulting in us arousing ourselves every day...however not to the point of orgasm. Why do I not orgasm? I don't want to. It doesn't feel right. I guess it once again comes to down to my ambition of only orgasming through women and my philosophy on instant gratification (Orgasm = ultimate pleasure, I want to feel like I worked for it).

    I didn't pay much heed to this, AFAIWC these activities were merely bonding activities/very extended foreplay before the real thing. But after doing this so many times and with no wet dreams giving me a release, I think it's had a consequence. Basically I feel a lot of pressure in my posterior, and today was the second time in a couple of weeks I took a dump and some prostate fluid leaked out my urethra. I swear my urination and bowel movements have increased too.

    This is of course disconcerting, especially today as this pressure refuses to subside since I had blue balls all yesterday afternoon. I have brought it up with my partner, who has seen no need for me to withhold orgasm from the beginning (she even encourages me to climax, but I refuse each time) and now I'm starting to feel like I should, regardless of my reluctance on the matter. But I want to discuss it with peers beforehand. Maybe a visit to the doctor is in order too. So please, respond how you want, any input is appreciated and don't hold back. Just be objective, speaking of which:

    As an aside, some of you may question the potential fallacy behind what could essentially be edging on a regular basis being on my "moral compass" but not climaxing...I see pleasuring myself to her as "I am really drawn to this woman and I want to feel physically connected to her". You could say she has had an effect on my own sexuality...and yet my feelings on orgasms remain. To me edging is a definite no-no if it's to porn and it takes a up a good chunk of the day (I stop myself after 5 or so minutes because I get bored or it feels too good), this just seems what normal couples do when they are away from each other. Maybe you'll disagree.

    Also there's no need to comment on the LDR. I have wanted to move since my first vacation there ended and I will be fulfilling that dream in 27 days so it will cease to be an LDR at that point.

    Thanks for reading and being honest. No religious bias please.
  2. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    I don't think you should worry that much, unless I've misunderstood your question. You will live with your girlfriend in 4 weeks, right? So the question of whether to masturbate via screen to her is only relevant for those 4 weeks anyways.

    The problem is that you are not decided on whether that kind of masturbation and orgasm is ok -- you seem to oscillate between "it's edging, it's not direct physical contact, so it's bad" and "it brings me closer to my girlfriend, so it's good". It can only be one of those things. Either it makes you feel closer to your girlfriend or not.

    Same thing with orgasm in general. You seem to think it's somewhat bad in the end, so you try to postpone it for as long as possible. I wonder what your approach is going to be when you live with her and have regular sex. I dont think it's a good idea to frame orgasm as some kind of final reward or something or feel guilty for allowing you that pleasure in absolute terms in any scenario, but more as an expression of love or a way to bond or release stress or whatever. You wont work for it every day when you're with your girlfriend, sometimes it will just happen (like after fighting), so will you be upset then because you "gave in"?

    It just seems like a totally artifical distinction. You are not looking at other women, you're not getting desensitized, your behavior is not escalating, and you're doing it with your girlfriend (via screen, but still). And obviously she is encouraging you to orgasm because she doesnt want you super horny when she's not around. In general, this is the least "bad" sexual behavior in the context of this forum and website I could think of, much different from watching porn or masturbating on your own. The only downside (that you didn't mention, so maybe it's not true in your case) is that you could feel even lonelier after that type of orgasm because it kind of makes it even more clear that you're not together physically at the moment.

    More pragmatically, you believe to have observed negative effects from the edging, so stop that. Either don't do it at all or orgasm from it at least occasionally, the explanation being what you said about bonding.
  3. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Thanks for your response.
    Living close to each other, yes. We both agreed it's too early to live together. But yes, it's only relevant for these four weeks. It actually bugs me that after all this time I am now having problems when regular sex is just beyond reach. Ironically over the past few months I have been stressing to people that numbers don't mean shit, and yet here I am putting value in my own.

    I feel like the edging to my gf but refusing to orgasm outside of an actual love-making context is a sort of compromise. I am uncomfortable with the idea of having an orgasm without a partner present (I feel like my success with nofap is credited to this exact personal stigma), but physical stimulation by itself still leaves room for some intimacy between two people who can't do the full thing. Edging under a bad context would be the sort where a guy is edging to porn and for hours on end, wherein the stimulus is purely artificial (you don't know the source personally) and your dopamine is going to peaking the whole time. The biology may be the same for me but I don't stigmatise it because it's for approx. 5 minutes and it's to my partner who I'm going to make love to eventually (Theoretically).

    I think that orgasm is bad when there was very minimum effort to get to that point. It's my philosophy with most rewards really. Dieting and exercise vs liposuction, saving for a personal possession instead of getting it for free, it just feels better when you worked for it and I've come to appreciate that aspect of life. I MO'ed for 10 years (from 15/16) many, many times a day, only had on gf during that time and all that minimum effort> maximum reward has left a sour taste in my mouth. I wanted to get away from that, which leads to the whole "Put effort into meeting a woman and get your reward (orgasms, emotional connection, validation) that way"

    During a visit to her and soon to be my country, we actually spent multiple days together and by ourselves. So we've already had the experience of living together. How did I approach it? She wanted to make love every morning and night, I found myself wanting to delay penetration and ergo ejaculation, sometimes up to 3 sessions later. I of course fully satisfied her through oral as an alternative, which worked until the next morning when she started questioning why we didn't make love in the end. I hope that's a sufficient enough response.

    Her aversion to me not orgasming is less about me being horny, and more about her well, having open season on herself during the day while I am giving myself some apparently unnecessary deprivation and in doing so could be potentially harming myself. My defense is that I never had problems, a defense which is now falling apart.

    I still need to think about the last part. I've been dwelling on it for a few weeks now.
  4. karyehs

    karyehs Member

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Normally I would say masturbating after such a long time due to prostatic problems is fine... But you've got an awesome streak. I think you should keep it up. How will you feel after one or two orgasms, looking back at your streak? Only you have the answer.I am even very disappointed and frustrated after a.streak of 30 days, I would be extremely mad to ruin a 1100+ days streak.

    But I think you've made a mistake by telling your gf. You gave her an extreme amount of power. Actually many women need years to get their husband to be their only sexual satisfaction. If she wouldnt't know that you don't PMO, I think it would be fine. But now she has absolute control. She can make you horny (or just don't do anything because you are way more horny than the average male anyway) to get you to anything and make it look like a good idea.

    If you are okay with this type of relationship where the women has 100% control of sex AND your orgasm; keep going.

    I've actually seen manuals about sexually controlling husbands step by step to reach your point. But they are married,,,

    Sigh,, whatever: I think you shouldn't MO. But I think you should try to get 100% satisfied with (more) sex.

    It is easy to think to love someone if you are very horny and the other person is nice/seems to love you.

    I wish you the best of luck, no matter what you do. But you may still see an urologist.


    Edit: well, that is an subjective opinion, though.
    Edit 2: My point is abstaining from PMO should give yourself control about your life and satisfaction, not somebody else.
  5. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Thanks for responding Karyehs.

    Re: my streak. After spending so long in the community, I've come to learn one thing- Streaks are not indicative of success. After a certain amount of time it just becomes a number. I've seen guys who barely made 50 days, switch to a once-a-week protocol and go on to do amazing things in their lives. While others like myself still procrastinate like a bitch, still spending hours on their computer...just avoiding porn and is that something to be proud of? I could wave my 1000 days 'til my arm got tired but I've felt much more fulfilled when I go on mountaineering trips. Hell, this forum discovered that streaks are somewhat meaningless when they adopted the monthly tracker.

    Don't get me wrong, I used to promote long streaks, even proclaiming that quitting masturbation forever is the way forward for men, but with time comes humility and I realise that it's a normal practice and to never masturbate again, especially when you are single makes you a VERY RARE exception. And not necessarily under good context. I used to feel really empowered by my abstinence, and now I'm wondering if I went too far in stigmatizing it and I don't have a healthy outlook on sexuality. How will I feel? I don't know. I never relapsed.

    I've always told my partners about my choice, it's not something you can hide especially if you are as honest as I. Most of them reacted with bemusement, a jewish girl was impressed to no end, but this is the first time an SO has objected to it so I don't think she's interested in control. She just wants me to be as sexually healthy as her (mentally and physically) so there won't be any reluctance in the bedroom. She already accused my nofap of being responsible for rejecting intercourse (Deprivation of my own pleasure as i am not accustomed to receiving it) even though I am clearly aroused.

    The last sentence quoted leads to to raise questions I have previously. For example, is it right that I let my success with women dictate my sexual pleasure? What if my SO has a cold period and I just have to deal with it? The second question has made it imperative I marry someone with a compatible sex drive, as you can imagine. As for the former question, I felt that after 10 years of a free for all on myself and disregarding my singledom as a result that it was about time I implemented this dictation - "Flirt or dirt", if you will.
  6. karyehs

    karyehs Member

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Did you ever consider that you are a computer addict? The computer is a tool, when you use it to reach a goal, but just surfing the web for entertainment is (can be) an addiction.

    The whole entertainment industry is addicting. It gives you emotions, adrenaline and dopamine without stepping outside.

    In my opinion you should be the driving sexual force in your relationships if you don't PMO. Seduce, play, kiss, seduce, cuddle, sniff.., just be playful sexually whenever YOU want. It doesn't always have to lead to penetrative sex, but if you want it, go for it. Woman enjoy male sexuality. "Your" women should enjoy your sexuality.

    It is a number. Your age is just a number, too. You could think about the importance of those numbers.

    This forum is not completely against masturbation, just against porn involved masturbation. Avoiding masturbation is just helping people to stop porn, since the urge to watch porn is bigger than the urge to masturbate quickly.

    If your gf says you don't penetrate her often enough, you can think of it as an invition to penetrate her more often...

    Have sex as much as you want. Just avoid porn and erotica(everything what you think is triggering your addiction, likr stories, tinder, etc).

    Not to masturbate won't magically solve your problems as you've seen.

    Sometimes it helps to write down 3 goals(which improve your life) for the day and just do them, no matter what. And do that every day.

    And if you have to do something, like study or cleaning or exercising; don't set a minimum number of minutes. Set a maximum. After some time this mindtrick changes your attitude.

    PMO doesn't seem to be your problem anymore in my OPINION.

    Get active, bro. And penetrate her.
  7. Aussie

    Aussie Guest

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    He's obsessed over his streak and nofap - he's recovered and needs a normal sex life - not some long distance relationship where he is left wanting her and not being able to have her,it's nothing more than another form of abstinence.

    Ever since I've known Tobias he's been chasing women who live in different fucking countries - it's extremely unhealthy and leaves him wanting pussy that he can't have when he needs it.
  8. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Hey Aussie, I'll definitely respond to you. FYI I will be ignoring responses along the lines of "Don't ever touch yourself even if you are bleeding from the anus because masturbation is sin". Although your response may implement some aggression sometimes it's good to have your opinions challenged. BTW I agree with on the community, although I won't respond extensively because it's off-topic :)
    To re-iterate and perhaps go into more detail, I was and still am disappointed in myself for spending what was essentially the most important years of my sexual development single and jerking off to porn or girls I liked but didn't have the balls/skill set to attract. I sought out to never masturbate again, deeming that I had already done enough to last a lifetime. I also hoped that in doing so I would go more out of my way to not only develop the skills to attract women, but approach them in the first place.

    For the most part I have achieved that, in fact I managed to become romantically involved with 8 women in a matter of two years. So I have more experience, however I still feel like I should maintain an orgasm free lifestyle outside of the context of intimacy.

    Re: the community, I am actually detached from it, at least in comparison to my previous involvement. But I still lurk from time to time here to see if there's anything of interest, and I'm still a key member of a community elsewhere and I don't feel like I can depart from that role. And as you can imagine this issue has resulted in me seeking feedback from other users.

    Was it that Tyger shit? What a horrible experience that turned out to be for me, I have an innate resentment for TV producers because of that experience...

    Re: LDR's, well I live in England and a small town at that so the selection of [single] females is...substandard. It's no wonder I find myself with girls in other cities/countries.

    However the country I'm moving to has plenty of single, traditional and beautiful women so even if things don't work out with this girl it's not a complete loss.

    Karyehs your response will be separate.
  9. Aussie

    Aussie Guest

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    having just turned 30 and realizing my 20's had been wasted infront of a screen,can relate to what wasted time and loneliness feels like.

    developing feelings for someone,and not being able to spend time with them for weeks and even months is just sexual torture man and I mean for "normal" guys - ,for us as...I don't know,I guess men without intimacy for so long - combined with going through and beating addiction..no wonder your doing head miles over it.

    Yeah the tyga show,I thought u did well! They didn't spend enough time on the science stuff which is the most important thing.

    Took courage to do that mate,props.

    once your in a full on relationship getting sex on tap you'll be set.

    Im Probably (Deffo) not in the best frame of mind to be offering any kind of insight at the moment anyway.

    might PM ya in a few weeks or something if ure ok with it.
  10. Giuseppe Garibaldi

    Giuseppe Garibaldi [url=http://pmo-tracker.appspot.com/?u=60434948879

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Women want you to cum,because when you cum you are satisfied by her.This means that she is pretty/hot/good and you will not search pleasure from another woman.Women want bond yuo and crave validation from your orgams,and cum is the best proof of that.
    A man that don't cum with her woman is a threat for her,she always think that you don't feel attraction/want another girl or even that she can't manipulate you through.

    It's just what I observed in personal and from friends.
  11. Wabi-sabi

    Wabi-sabi Imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the OP's observation about streaks being meaningless - but I remain wary about edging and getting stimulation from an on-screen image (if I'm reading it correctly), even if you are in a relationship with the person.

    I think it's dangerous. It also sexualizes the relationship in a strange way - sex is something that happens between two people in the same room at the same time. Anything else is just wanking.
  12. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Keeping responses separate to help keep the thread in order:

    Quite often. I was certainly addicted to video games in my younger years, especially RPG's. Logged more than enough hours on Runescape. After quitting porn I dedicated myself more to an MMO just to direct my computer time elsewhere, until it became obvious I had to quit video games too. Now a loud of my time goes towards reading forums, watching LP's on YouTube and reading news article comments. I have a bit of an obsession with reading other people's opinions, which probably extends to this thread. I guess it provides me some social interaction wherein I don't have to participate.

    I've definitely rediscovered my masculinity with this girl. Although she is not a stranger to sex she is very attracted to dominance and connection. However I'm not used to being dominant, although it makes me feel powerful the sensation is an alien one and I find myself sometimes drawn to just pleasuring her until she's done, by this time I'm soft and I just end it there. You see I find appeal in depriving myself of things, which extends to other facets of my life.

    In this context I much enjoy sex more when I deprive myself, and penetrate at a later moment when the SO in question is literally asking for it. Why do I deprive myself from sex until she's asking for it? I guess once again like with masturbation I don't feel like having an orgasm when the opportunity arises is appropriate for me. Only in the past with FWB's have I been comfortable doing it over and over because that's the whole point. Girls I actually care about...not so much.

    Why is my age relevant?
  13. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    It's torturous yes, but at the same time I just deal with it...I'm used to hardship (in terms of 1st World hardship anyway). From my end I prefer to have a LDR with a good quality chick than have a bitch next door.

    No, they did not. But according to them the science isn't important, it's more important to keep Tyger relevant (and humorous) while lining their own pockets with attention grabbing sexual imagery. I merely saw it as an opportunity to get the message out, discuss the topic as an intellectual and maybe help someone out. But they just wanted to make silly jokes and spend 20 minutes on my bloody power stance.

    Go ahead.
  14. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    I'm fully aware. I used to be in the delayed ejaculation crew, and could never understand why my partner was getting upset after being railed for so long she can barely walk. I was pretty proud of it, especially when you hear girls complaining about their "two pump chumps".

    "it doesn't matter if I didn't finish, you got more than enough pleasure right? I'm good and you should be good too"

    However my first intellectual gf informed me that girls would rather a guy finish early than not finish at all because of validation purposes, and that was when I decided that maybe I should do something about it (like nofap).
  15. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    So I just did it in the shower. For the entirety of yesterday I had this weird feeling in my ass, and after discussing it with you guys, and some people I'm in personal contact with who are also involved in the community I felt like it was necessary. I mean I can handle blue balls to no end, but feeling like something is in your ass is a different thing altogether. I'm probably going to book a GP/urologist session still to make sure I didn't do any damage.

    I felt like if I was going to reset, it would be in my bed while looking at pictures of my GF. But I still didn't feel comfortable about that, partially because I would be doing it in a relaxed environment but mostly because of the mess. Then I decided that I should do it in a sterile environment, where I don't have to clean up. Then I concluded that if I did it while I was cleaning myself, that it too would be a form of cleaning. So, I just stared at the bathroom window the whole time like it had wronged me.

    It wasn't a pleasant experience, at least when you disregard the pleasure. It took a while just to get hard, and felt myself fighting against the breaking point the whole way. In fact it seemed more difficult to do it than not. It makes sense really, on a mental scale I was doing something I had hoped never to do again. Something that ceased to be a part of my life.

    You know, I always find something to agree on in your posts. You seem to be a good, wise person.
  16. Loleekins

    Loleekins Nemo repente fuit turpissimus

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    Get your prostate checked maybe. I'm going through this with someone right now actually. Rather unpleasant for the poor guy.
  17. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    Re: I could be ending my journey and I'm seeking some objective responses.

    This is 100% true.
  18. gameover

    gameover Age: 26

    Your body is designed to ejaculate during times of intense arousal, not hold it in and let yourself settle down. Side effects are to be expected and you have to take the good with the bad. I personally see no reason why you would deprive yourself of climaxing with a partner. As others have stated you are potentially denying your partner something as well which is the validation for the women during sex is to make the man finish as nature intended.

    In my opinion you went to the extreme end of the spectrum, probably as far as any man will ever get without isolating themselves from the world on a mountain in the Himalayas. Do you really want to be always thinking about your sexuality? You have mastered your sexual impulses and i think its time to let go and just be in the moment with your partners and not think about the pros and cons of orgasm vs no orgasm etc anymore. Just enjoy it for what it is.

    Your method of no masturbation and no porn is the most ideal and i am trying to adopt it again but i could never hold back orgasms during sex.
  19. freeman35

    freeman35 Active Member

    If I've read this right, I assume you don't want to MO during online facetime with your GF - which i can understand due to the fact that it is a screen (and as such similar to porn). I would probably have the same reticence since I'm rebooting from exactly that activity. You have sucessfully broken the habit of MO to screen images and do not want to go back.

    If your GF is already aware of your addiction history she is more likely to be understanding (not that I am suggesting you tell her if not - that is of course another thing altogether). But I would say 2 other things:

    1) If you were to go ahead with MO during online skype this is probably not the end of the world and certainly not a case of having to 'start again' in a reboot - far from it.
    2) The dilemma you're in is unfortunately a result of the influence technology now holds in our world and especially in relationships. You are navigating a situation for which there is no black and white yes/no answer. Mainly you are being considerate to what your GF wants which is admirable.

    This is mainly only an issue due to an addiction history - but everyone on here has that to deal with in some form or another.

    If it was me I think the ideal outcome would be that I waited until I was with her in person, but I do understand the quandry.
  20. WhirlwindTobias

    WhirlwindTobias Man Against Mediocrity

    Hey freeman. It's not that I didn't want to MO to a screen, it's that I didn't want to O at all, at least not outside the instance of actual intercourse. I had broken the habit of masturbation regardless of whether it was to images or not, and didn't want to go back [to masturbation].

    I don't think you read the update, so I'll tell you that I found a compromise and I now MO in the shower while staring at the water stains on the window. In fact it may have turned out to be a good thing in the end. I no longer hold a stigma to orgasms so I'll become accustomed to them by the time we are having sex regularly, I no longer feel an innate to get sexual over skype or even edge in privacy, and masturbation has become an almost robotic action that has no sexual context-only a hygienic exercise.

    It's actually more of a challenge now, as you can imagine. Abstinence had gotten pretty easy. Too easy, I would say.

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