Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Saville, May 15, 2016.
That one gave me a good chuckle!!
That sounds like a good project. You also get the joy and satisfaction of eating veggies that you have grown yourself.
Hmm- very interesting.
Dude the emptiness you explained in your early post describes me to a T. My marriage is falling apart and I can't even cry.
I want to cry. I feel that I should cry, but I am empty.
I realize I am likely losing my wife and crushing my 6 children. Where are the tears? I have a feeling that when they come.......
hey man, thanks for what you've shared in your journal. I made it all the way through as a new guy here. I really appreciate your transparency in addressing nice guy syndrome, whether or not to MO, and asserting yourself in your marriage. You reference a lot of things that you have come across by reading. Did you pick reading back up after you started your journal or is reading a lifelong thing that you did even while stuck in PMO?
The emptiness is real, for sure. Giving up PMO is a great first step, obviously. I didn't think I'd ever feel again, but every year without PMO make life better. Don't give up on your marriage and children. Unless your wife is a caustic bitch you can change the dynamic of the relationship by reclaiming who you really are. Your wife fell in love with something really awesome in you and that is still there, just waiting to jump out.
Thanks for posting, bro'. I've been a life long reader. But, until I gave up PMO a lot of the stuff didn't penetrate. I was looking for a magic bullet, instead of doing the work, myself. In other words, I wanted the book to do the heavy lifting. It is essential, as many others have said, to work on all aspects of ourselves. It's hard, it's tiring, but the pay off is worth it. You don't get the views if you don't climb the mountain. If someone drives you up to the top in a car the beauty soon fades, because it's the car's enlightenment, not your own.
Oh, yeah, and MO is fucked. It seems benign, but masturbating holds us back big time. We rewire with a woman/man or live as a monk.
Everything about this post resonates with me. I'm starting over again, and I will revisit these words regularly. You've had a million posts with your signature brand of wisdom, but this is the latest, and is succinct enough that maybe thick-headed numbskulls like me can finally take inspiration and translate it into action. Thank you.
One of the points my counselor drove home was that I intellectualize things and fail to act on them. Such a simple thing but she caught me doing that so many times, in so many aspects of my life. Your journal has reminded me of that in your calls for action.
Hi Saville, just dropping by to say hi. I have been reading parts of your journal in the last days, it’s pretty interesting. Porn addiction and relationship issues are two different matters, but they are often intertwined. Guys who are in a relationship when they quit PMO turn to their wives or girlfriends to reconnect to sex, but it’s not always that simple. The classic scenario of ‘rewiring’ isn’t always a smooth thing when you have been with someone for years. At the same time, it really is a nice challenge. Anyway, I am glad I found your journal, you seem like a cool guy. Take care.
Thanks for dropping by, @Bilbo Baggins !
You've got that right. Any man who is in a relationship and PMO's will have problems with his significant other. PMO is our hidden mistress, not to mention how the brain chemistry is changed.
I haven't posted in my journal for a long time, but with Bilbo stopping by I decided to give the old update. Things are decent. I did give into watching P for about a month. I wasn't beating off everyday, but often enough. As per usual, I started losing interest in sex with the wife, stuff around the house, etc. I guess I'll call it a dalliance because I've clean for quite awhile now. I did over threes years initially, but the trap is there, always waiting. What changed?
#1: My wife lost some interest in having sex (it hurts, I'm dry, I'm old, I'm busy) and so I allowed her to beat me off instead of PIV. Big no-no! Hands are wired to PMO, vaginas aren't.
#2: I lost sight of the ball. The monkey chattered away in my brain and I forgot what worked at the beginning. Namely, take care of the smalls tasks and move slowly. I also stopped being the man in the relationship. It takes energy to be top dog and my old habit of letting my wife take over was something I slipped into. I was diagnosed with low-thyroid, so my energy can be low, anyway.
#3: I began to feel that the struggle wasn't worth the bother. I'm in my 60's and sometimes it feels like my 80's are just around the corner. My knees chronically ache, my sinuses are bad and now I have knuckles in my hands that are arthritic. I felt worn out and PMO, followed by a couple of drinks and TV, took me away from the drudgery.
#4: Stopped taking cold showers.
What did I do to get out of the doldrums? I started rowing. I changed my diet, which meant ditching refined sugar and a host of grains. Basically, I'm doing the paleo thing now. This resulted in two weeks of low-level depression and headaches, as my body detoxed. I decided it was time to pressure the wife again into coitus. Having our kids back at the ranch due to Covid (they lost their jobs) has been awful, but because that wasn't changing I forced my wife to commit to a schedule. She whined, she bitched, she got angry, but I stayed the course. Intimacy is always fraught with bullshit, except at the beginning of a relationship when both people just want to fuck their brains out. I've also started doing the small tasks, again. Instead of seeing all the stuff that needs done, that I haven't done, that I should've done, I just pick something and do it. For example: My garage was a real mess. Over the course of four days I cleaned it up, without putting any pressure on myself to get it all done quickly. When I had a few minutes I'd go out there and put a few things away, throw some stuff in the trash, and sweep a bit. After that I tackled the basement. No, tackled is the wrong word - I simply moved things around until eventually it looked tidy; it took my over a month to complete. Other things I do that make me feel good are reading and walking.
Many days I still feel tired and unmotivated, but the course of a person's life is what it is. I accept who I am at this moment. The ego, the chattering monkey, wants to build up ideals and fantasies, because it knows that it can keep us stuck forever that way. The Buddhists say that there isn't an ego to get rid of, because it doesn't really exist, anyway. In other words, our ego is the first fantasy that spawns all the others.
When I had my dalliance my pecker got softer and it was so much harder to cum. After a 30 day reboot I was back on track. I don't need a blue pill to get a good erection (though I'm not against them) and the reason for that is real sex with a real person. I'm kind of fat and I don't believe I've got extra testosterone in me that other men of my age don't have. Love-making is mostly between our ears, no matter what age we are. Perhaps in my 70's I won't give a shit anymore, but at the moment I want to eke what vitality I can out of life. We will all eventually be corpses, so why not try to elevate ourselves a little bit out of the mire, before we rot in it?
things are good with my wife. after many rocky years. we do have sex maybe every couple of weeks.. still way better than going for years without as was the case.. the thing i hate about my porn use most is that it takes me away from projects around the house.. as other's mentioned.... those times alone are when it is just too easy.. when i go for a while without it because i actually got stuff done in my career, studies, or housework, i feel great. sex with the wife is awesome for me... she enjoys but she doesn't crave it as often. Anyway I'm back as I want to live a more fulfilling life... there are issues around the house, which i'll tend to today. maybe my next report will be about the things (positive) which are not wanking to much. besides I'm mid 50's!
I would post this on my refrigerator, but my kids and GF would wonder where I came up with it
Saville, it's great to hear from you again. I've thought about checking in with you a lot over these last several months, as I've missed hearing your words of wisdom. I wanted to have a good report on my own progress before doing so, but that just didn't happen. I'm climbing back on the horse now.
The fact that you were able to right the ship and get that 30 days behind you is great. I'm taking inspiration from your example yet again.
Maybe I'll write it on magnets and try to market it.
I forgot to mention that another useful thing I've done is change my diet. I am no longer eating sugar. Not having the brain crave a sugar hit diminished all cravings, in general. When I was saying "fuck it" about my diet, it was easier to say the same about PMO.
Good to hear from you. I am also trying to work on my diet. I agree your previous long post is one worth me re-reading or posting on my computer some place.... thank you my friend.
I was reading the conversation on @Give Me Strength journal and me think about the following. In fact I began writing on GMS's journal, but then thought it too long and perhaps better suited on my own. It was with regard to whether we work on all things or just one thing at a time.
I'm for the approach that works and whatever approach we choose, I've realized, should be ever evolving. As an addict we start off in a well-worn neuronal rut. It's easy to climb out of the rut, but it's equally easy to slip back down into it. Adding to the problem is we live in the same home, with the same job, with the same friends, with the same people who inhabit that home. We associate all of this with the rut. How do we then evolve inside this enclave? The most popular things are interventions like exercise, diet change, delving further into religion/philosophy, watching videos, and the like. The problem with these interventions is that we try to fit them into our daily rituals, rituals which we've honed over decades - which probably began in infancy. We can take a hammer to it, which I was an advocate of before, but we usually rebuild the ruins into the same old statues that we've worshiped before. My approach this time is different. I have to grow so that I expand beyond what was. It's kind of like the Grinch's heart. There's room for us to expand and fill our spaces, but as addicts we are stuck occupying a tiny portion of it. The first step, for me at least, was seeing this space and then secondly acknowledging that it was absolutely my space to fill; I claim it. I also allowed myself to acknowledge that I was unwell, that I still am. There is great power in seeing the big space we are meant to fill and also the hollowness inside. I am spiritually, psychologically, and physically unwell. When we see and admit that then we can search out remedies, which might include medication and professional help. "No man is an Island."
Really good stuff, Saville. Glad to have you back!
My nephew was in a bad place with drug addiction last year, and spent months in a rehab facility. That's not an option available to most, as it is difficult to do without disrupting life "unacceptably". But he was fortunate to have people around him who convinced him that this was best for him. I'm hopeful that his success since leaving the facility will continue. But like us, he will always be a recovering addict. May we all stay on the right side of recovery.
I bring this up because you are right when you say that our lives are constructed around rituals and habits that become the ruts that are so very hard to deconstruct. I've read many ways of tearing down the walls of our prison, even if it's a few bricks at a time. For me, I guess, I haven't torn the walls down quickly enough. The bricks are returned before I can remove enough of them to really give myself a way out of my cell. A different place than my home, with all its familiar cues, could make a huge difference. But, like most of us, I imagine, I don't see a rehab facility as a viable option at this stage in my life. The closest thing for me right now might be an extended vacation. A few weeks would be nice if I could pull it off. Professional help not requiring months away from my job might also work. No guarantees there, but something has to change. It is true that no man is an island, but since this is an addiction of isolation, there are still plenty of us who seem to live that way. We must leave our islands one way or another and do what is necessary to make a real difference.
Hey Saville--- are you hit with that Artic Blast ?
Just normal cold here.
I'm losing weight. My new of way of eating for life is paying off. I didn't start it for the weight loss, though, but because I physically felt like crap. I'm no longer filled with gas that bulges the upper part of my stomach out. Guys at the gym would hit my stomach and go "damn, dude, your power gut is hard." I felt kind of proud of it, in a small way, even though it was so unhealthy. My face is younger looking too, because my triple chin is now a double. lol I'm definitely off dairy and sugar for life.
I was reading a little about the life of Julian of Norwich, who seems to be in vogue these days. She was a 14th century Christian mystic, who lived in a walled up cell beside a monastery. Her job in life was to pray for "mankind" and decipher her visions. One of her tenets was "sin has no substance." That really struck me. I think most of us see our sins (our misdeeds such as watching P) as something we carry around with us, like a cross to bear. But to Julian sin could not be held, because there is nothing to hold. It is our ego that holds onto what it thinks our sins are, but because sin has no substance we are holding strawmen. Letting go of our strawmen is hard, because then it reveals the lie we've been living. We do sin, everyone does, but then the sin is gone. So, we watch P, but then that is over and there is no need for regret and shame, unless we want the idea of sin to stay ever with us. In other words we have freedom always in front of us. Each new moment is an opportunity. One day clean is the same as 3 years clean, is the same as a lifetime clean.
When I had over 3 years clean and then fell, I looked back and thought "I need to be the man who was clean for 3 years." No! I need to be the man who releases himself from the tyranny of thinking that at each moment he is not good enough. I'm good enough. I'm better than good enough!
Separate names with a comma.