Too Late to the Party?

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Saville, May 15, 2016.

  1. Yeah, the Doidge books on the brain are really great. I finally finished "The Brain that Changes Itself." He has that bit about stroke patients in it as well. There's also a chapter on fetishes, video game, and PMO. I read that bit before finding this forum. It's good to learn people have been successful, but it seems far more impactful to come here and talk to you all than read it in some distant book. @Saville, your experiment with you knees is a great one. I often cation others and myself on language because it's powerful. I too have some unneeded weight and bad knees. It sort of hit me hard when you said you had written your knees off. I have done that too. It is probably time to stop feeding myself that language and try a new diet of "Yes I can."
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  2. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    :) Yes we can! :)

    Last night in the Doidge book I read about how injury to the brain can cause noise. By injury he means brain damage by stroke, blunt force trauma, medication induced trauma and other diseases. But, "brain damage" is not just confined to those things, but can also come about because of the way we've lived our lives and how we've thought. I'm probably not going to explain all this perfectly, but here's how I understand it. When a part of the brain suffers damage it goes into shock. Neurons in that portion of the brain die. But, because the brain is so intricately connected, there are neurons on the other side of the brain, not anywhere close to the damage, that begin to suffer. The reason for this is that they are connected in an over-arching way. Kind of like our feet being a long way from our head, but if something goes wrong with the big toe the entire body is thrown off-kilter. So, these neurons on the other side, as well as the neurons adjacent to the damage begin floundering. They are still firing at a reduced level. This creates a kind of noise where we (the brain) find it hard to identify specific things. With all this misfiring and noise going on the brain is basically stuck in flight or fight mode, which neuro guys call the sympathetic system. This, I believe is where PMO dudes are stuck. Where we want our brains to be is in the parasympathetic system, because this where all the healing is done. This is where we sleep better, recall things better, and make better decisions. How do we get there? Well, I've got to read further to find that out. :) It does have to do with sounds, light, and thoughts.

    I am not doing the book justice. I know that I will have to read it again in order to fully digest what he's talking about. But, I feel hope. I feel it in a new way. There are strategies out there that can help us men heal our minds, because it is our minds that have caused us such distress.

    Peace! :)
  3. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Beeing stuck in the flight or fight mode for too Long, I read this online in a study, can cause chronic Fatigue, adrenal fatigue and Burn out which are often associated with Depression also. Interesting stuff, Saville. Please keep us updated when it Comes to the Solutions. Thanks.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  4. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Saville I want to respond to your post. As you know I once had a stroke and recovered completely which the medical establishment says you cannot accomplish. Inflammation has a lot to do with this. I don't have the time right now but I will soon.
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  5. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    While Doidge's books contain much capable and valuable information there are some things he does not cover. The most damaging effect on neurons is inflammation. The neurons are not damaged they are blocked. The " damaged" area is surrounded by inflammation. There is a drug used to clear the inflammation used by INR (Institute of Neurological Recovery). Problem is it does not work on every one. If you don't use this option the inflammation will fade and disappear in about 2 years. Btw the drug is very expensive. It's used for head trauma, brain trauma as well as strokes. You must teach the brain what you want. Its ability to do that is called neuroplasticity ( the ability of the brain to learn.) Once it knows what you want it then works to learn how to do it. In the case of a stroke you need a new pathway to the arm and leg affected or any part affected. A new pathway because the " old" one is broken. The ganglia ( neurons) cannot travel the same old way because the part of the brain that controlled it is now either " dead" or completely surrounded by inflammation. Think of a baby: to walk you must first crawl : to crawl tou must first learn how to use the limbs to move. This entire process is neuroplastocity. The brain is learning. Once it does it can repeat the desired motion forever if need be. More to come --- this motion is directly connected to pmo. Hope I am not boring you all.----
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
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  6. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    To continue-- once the stroke is established the brain looks for other ways to achieve the same pattern. So, if lets say the paralyzed side is the right arm and leg with some face numbness and eye reduced vision. The brain will say " well lets use the left side." It recognizes it has another side. The brain makes a statement but does not think. You say no, I want the right side to work and do all the things it did before the stroke. The brain says ok BUT you have to show me on a regular basis. So you do and now the brain begins to accomplish the task you have given it.

    The neurons on the left side are sluggish because all neurons are interconnected in a strange fashion. Remember the neurons are not damaged just blocked by inflammation. Enough about strokes now about pmo. To be continued------
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  7. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    I have a few minutes--- if you say "I am gonna do this " etc , the brain will comply. Sights, sounds and thoughts come into this spectrum. I know this sounds " new age- ey" but there is enormous scientific evidence to support the FACT that thoughts are things ! Interestingly, this was hypothised 1000 years ago by Socrates! If you accept pmo as part of your life you are telling the brain that this is part of its job. Remember, your brain does not think you mind does and they are 2 different substances. The brain does not decipher it makes statements but it simply reacts. To be continued-----
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  8. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    A mind that concentrates on pmo is telling the brain what to do ! Remember the brain doesn't think, it follows orders. So now we have the engraved pathways Doidge talks about. Neuroplasticity is learning but it is not thinking. It's like: the fire cooks the meat but what starts it ? I need to mention that the neurons trapped in the damaged( blood filled ) area do die in a stroke but as I said only in that area. Sights: do I need to go any further with this as far as pmo goes? The brain is watching ! The pathway is getting deeper due to repetition! Sounds: We associate particular sounds with certain actions. Pmo, associating certain female sounds with the act ! Therefore, repetition again ! So here we are: PMO--ing using sights, sounds and thoughts as the brain which makes no judgements ( that requires thinking) carries out its orders. Change the orders and it does that ! That's why we can get better and reshape our lives. It takes time but it happens as long as you are absolute about your desire. This subject is more complex, this is just a surface scratching. But the evidence is here, pmo is beatable and can be a thing of the past in your life!:)
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  9. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Awesome stuff, Bobo. Amazing that you recovered from your stroke, but not surprising given the strength of your character.

    The chapter I was reading last night was about lasers. Low-intensity laser therapy is apparently the bomb. Of course, in my little neck of the woods no one is doing it, because my town sucks! There are only a few doctors who use low-intensity laser therapy in North America; apparently it is huge in Russia, where much of the initial research was done. The guy he mentions in the book is a Dr. Kahn who has a clinic in Toronto. Obviously nothing is a panacea for all ills, but there is so much more out there than the medical industrial complex. What I like about the book is it's all backed up by trials and the science is definitely there.

    One amazing this is that even though we know a lot about the brain, we still have no idea what thoughts really are. I guess it gets back to the age old question: who and what are we?

    My wife was talking about having some couples over for dinner and to play some games. I don't really like games, which is odd, because I loved them as a kid. I sometimes wonder if my fear of failure is wrapped up in simple board games. I'm rather good at some games, so I don't know why the hesitancy over playing them. I'm definitely a social person, but my wife is a full-on socialite. She LOVES having people over, going to parties, playing games, etc. Some of it is because she loves the attention. She is an extrovert with most definite narcissistic tendencies. Her father was a narcissist. Oh, and so was my mom. I've mentioned before how it seems I literally married my mother. Oh, I'm getting a boner just thinking about it. :eek: (that's meant to be a joke, btw) :D Yes, so games. I think it's OK not to like games so long as that is not an indication that it's just simply a bit of depression. The jury is still out on this one. I know that PMO made me look forward only to PMO and everything else was an intrusion.

    I'm almost 3 years clean from PMO, but it doesn't seem like any kind of milestone. The first year felt epic, but after that you realize it's just life going on as it should. Part of my mantra over these years has been: move slowly. I still adhere to that, especially when I'm doing a task that before was boring to me. I easily built up walls (and still do) about getting certain shit done. Moving slowly has really helped in this regard. It's like everything becomes a meditation, an opportunity to not think, to just be.

    I hate doing my taxes. I know that I am not that organized and so doing my taxes requires me to look for things, like receipts and statements. I'm not organized in that way because I think taxes are stupid and are designed to keep people stuck. They are created by little minds. However, being disorganized is a state of my life and so I can't really blame taxes, per se. It's this kind of convoluted thinking that used to keep me from even filing my taxes...oh, until the tax man caught up with. lol So, slowing down allows me to shut off of my brain, for the most part, and quietly look for things, rake things, wash things, etc.

    After reading parts of Doidge's book I am formulating a new intervention for myself and that is to do some things quickly. Going one pace all the time has been good, but it isn't helping rev up other parts of my engine (brain). The guy who had Parkinson's found that fast walking was the most beneficial. In fact, he found that just simply exercising did not allow the brain to make new connections. He had to walk fast, all the while paying close attention to how he was walking. It sounds like a lot of effort for a guy who just likes to amble when he's out stretching the legs. So, I'm going to find areas of my life where I can ratchet up the speed. A life should have different tempos, just like music; this is my new, not very well formulated mantra. :)

    I was a bit sad that Doofus left. He's a good guy and struggling mightily on a few different fronts. At first I blamed myself a little, because I did press him somewhat about his drinking and about what he was revealing to his therapist. But, you know what, I'm not in charge of him. I'm just here doing my best and hoping to be as healthy as I can. I realize that I'm not responsible for the health of anyone else, only myself. Maybe he, and others who've left, have found healthier outlets for their issues - I truly hope that's the case.

    OK, time for my cold shower so I can really wake up and face the day! :cool:
  10. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Thank you! It's because I am relentless! I think what you say about different speeds is most interesting. The same speed of anything creates a pathway for the brain and then deepens it as the same occurs over and over. Is this good? Hmmm-- I don't know really but I don't think so.

    Yes, Doofus-- I am sad about his disappearance also. Yes, he was struggling mightily but then Saville aren't we all ? Not to diminish his struggle but maybe he found what he needed to move on.
    Yes, as we concur---- btw I think your " new" mantra is very sensible and very cool !
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  11. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Thanks, bro'!

    My knees are feeling a bit better since I began getting up from a seated position more quickly. Before I got up slowly, using my arms, and I always felt some sort of pain. It has been draining. But, since reading the book I've been talking about I'm seeing if I can get the brain firing in a different way. Early results are good. Now I don't use my arms, I just simply stand up as quickly as I can. I run up stairs now, which interestingly does not induce any pain. I've been walking more. I walk quickly, stretching out my legs further than I used to and swinging my arms more. Like I say, early days...but, feeling hopeful.

    I've had a lot of sinus issues over the past few months and it's rather wearing me down. I've started flushing the sinus with saline and am hoping this will help. I have a pet theory that inflammation of our sinuses leads to low-level depression. Hmm, how do I rewire the brain so that it doesn't keep my mucous membranes inflamed? I'm sure there's a way!

    I feel horny 24/7 lately. Wife gave me a bj yesterday morning which was awesome! :D But, I think I'm going to try and go with out cumming for the next two weeks. I'm actually a bit bored with banging the wife and I've noticed my brain is leaping toward fantasy. It is crazy to feel horny, but to not feel that pumped about sex with the wife. Before I would have thought that I need to tap someone new, but I know that's folly. Again, it's all about the neuroplasticity baby. :cool:
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  12. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    I had sinusitis. I took efas for 90 days and was significantly better was damm near gone. Essential fatty acids, omega 3 and 6 like 3 with each meal 9 per day. Sinusitis does lead to depression problems I believe " been there done that!"
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  13. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Funny you should say this! I decided last week that I needed to storehouse energy. So by not cumming this accomplishes the task. Heather and I have had sex 4 different times since I made the decision. Even the " meet me at bar" scenario. I am getting better at it. While it is a bit difficult to do it can be done. When I don't cum she gets insanely orgasmic. She asked me why I was doing it " saving energy!" I said " look out when I decide I have saved enough energy!" She just stared with wide open eyes. I think energy storage is very important. Energy in men is testosterone which produces cum. You can have sex but you don't have to cum. Heather is like WTF dude ! American women are raised to believe men have to cum ! Nope not true. The Chinese figured this out 4000 years ago. Here in Western society men are still cumming all the time with no rest and wasting energy inappropriately. Good for you dude-----!
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  14. I love this idea about moving slowly, being mindful. I think it's probably important in recovery. This is where we're observing ourselves and motivations instead of living in "the trance," as Tara Brach calls it in her book Radical Acceptance. Your thought about changing your mantra to moving more quickly almost seems like a natural progression to this outside observer. You've observed yourself in several situations and understand those underlying motivators better. So, you can comfortably move quicker in those areas. The stigma that held you back has lost its power! Well done, brother.
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  15. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I think we all are programmed this way. This kind of thinking is why there is little intimacy in the life of a PMO addict and in society in general. We waste so much creative energy on thinking about sex and trying to have it, whether that is with a real person or with PMO.

    This was something that just happen to me, something I realized in the early days of recovery. It was a game changer.

    This brought tears to my eyes. Thank you, MSC. Having someone echo back to me that I'm doing a good job means a lot!
  16. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Still reading the Doidge book. One chapter is dedicated to a device called PoNs. It a device that is inserted into the mouth and lies flat on the tongue. It's job is to use electrical current over the surface of the tongue, which in turn excites neurons in the brain. The tongue is absolutely cholk-full of nerve fibres and they talk to the brain rather nicely. Amazing results have been seen using this device. People with brain injuries and MS have gone into the lab with walkers and come out walking normally. One guy who lost his voice completely due to MS regained it in a matter of 20 minutes. The brain is plastic and the PoNs device quiets the chatter of misfiring neurons which allows the brain to rewire. Most people had sessions where they would have the device in their mouth six times a day for 20 minutes. There's WAY more to it than that, obviously, so this is just a rather weak summary of it all.

    This got me thinking about the penis. :eek: Well, when am I not thinking about my penis? :oops: The penis is also an organ that can be seen outside the body and it is also sensitive to stimulation. No, I'm not thinking of using an electric device on my penis...hmm, that might be fun.o_O With the PoNs, most people found that for changes to be permanent, they had to use it every day for up to 2 1/2 years. People who got tired of using it after four months found that the gains that had taken place began to regress. On average, it took the 2 1/2 years for the brain to accept what was happening as the new normal. Hmmmm! This means that for P addicts it is realistic to expect recovery to take that long, providing there are no slips along the way.

    So, while we can learn from our slips, we have to realize that they do set us back, at least imo they do. In 7 days I will be 3 years P-free. Woo Hoo, right?! No, because I've actually wanked quite often over this time. I've gone long stretches with no fapping and it is a habit that is much decreased, but the fact that I must face is I actually need another 2 1/2 years free of fapping to have my brain fully accept the changes. I think it's been two weeks since I hustled the muscle so I suppose I can subtract that. :rolleyes: I've made gains, I've rescued my relationship, and I've become sexual again, but I've really cheated myself from fully embracing my life. In other words I still have one foot firmly in the past. Time to let that mother fucker go.

    I actually find all this rather exciting. Also, taking a cue from what @Bobo 's been talking about regarding sex without ejaculation I've come/cum up with a theory. A man needs to feel sexually alive on a number of fronts. For instance, yesterday my wife and I kissed deeply. I immediately found that arousing. Immediately I thought "let's fuck!" However, I just enjoyed the moment and enjoyed the pulsing in my penis. This is storing up the energy that Bobo talked about. So, we can have sex without shooting our load, but we can also have many intimate moments where we feel our sexuality coursing through our bodies (like with kissing and hugs) and not insert our penis into the woman's honey pot. In fact, we need this, just like we need to constantly top up our vitamins. Going for years without love and sex from a woman is like having emotional/sexual scurvy and rickets.

    This doesn't mean that men with wives can go out and flirt and get their sex vitamins from someone other than their wives, because that's just an extension of PMO; it goes right to our fantasy centers. But, this is a call, I hope, to you men who are without anyone to up your game. It's also a call to us with a SO to not fucking fap and to worry less about cumming and more about building up our sexual health. So, guys without a woman: it is critical that you find someone with whom you can build up your reserves with and keep topping them up. Yes, we can take vitamins from a bottle, but these will never be the same as the natural ones.
  17. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    What a wonderful way to put it. As I said the energy storage is nuts ! The feeling of wellbeing is also nuts ! When you (( at least me) feel you don't have to perform the sex becomes totally insane! Heather in this case gets absolutely wild and hotter than a furnace. Why ? Because I perform like a" post hole auger!" I am not special I just feel like I have enormous amounts of energy! And I believe I only have only been practicing this for 4 weeks now, so imagine in 4 months? I am sure it will level off still the energy potential is unreachable for so many men. I agree totally, you must stay away from m and all of its forms. Personally I feel also that I will only be totally healed in probably 2 or 3 more years. To accept this as the life normal by the brain will take time. Meanwhile, I can give Heather screaming orgasms and myself extreme pleasure and not cum except occasionally. Time for the end of emasculation!
  18. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh Seize the day

    So familiar. It is as if we have just never learned what to do with sexual arousal. It is a thing you don't talk about. So you think it is normal to just get it out again in a dissapointing spasm, while there's actually a way (as it seems) to cultivate that sexual energy as a part of a normal, complete healthy functioning of your body.
  19. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Thanks for posting, Gil.

    Last night while getting to the end of "How the Brain Heals Itself" I came across the the phrase libido scire. Well, I'm not sure if it was exactly that, because I can't remember whether the word was scire (to know) or a conjugation of that. Anyway, I do remember that it meant "know desire." It doesn't mean it in a sexual sense, but rather knowing desire for one's life. Our word for wanting to have sex is libido. The internet/media is filled with talk about our libidos. How we've lost them, how we might get them back, etc. Of course, libido on this forum is the opposite of the flatline. We want to feel more sexual, instead of just that other weird feeling that is anti-libido that makes us just want to cum with our hand. I think where a word comes from is important. In English we think of libido as all or nothing, but in Latin it had a broader meaning. I'm explaining this clumsily, but it really struck me how what our real desire is, is to have desire for life. To feel passion for doing. A reasonably well-rounded person doesn't just want to fuck, he wants to create.

    The book talks a lot about misfiring neurons creating noise within our brains. I have a very noisy brain and I find it hard to concentrate on things. This would surprise people, as outwardly I'm rather "successful." Almost every time someone is talking to me I have my own chatting going on. I say to myself "concentrate," but then I start thinking about concentrating. This noise means our brains are in flight and fight mode. Our sympathetic nervous system can't turn on and so we are stuck always fighting ourselves. I think this is one of the reason I like booze so much. It shuts off some of the noise. There are various strategies outlined in the book for ridding oneself of this noise. One is the use of sounds played through headphones that mimic what a baby would hear inside the womb of its mother. Of course, finding a place that does this isn't always easy and I believe they are rather expensive. Another method is using Feldenkrais, a way of moving that helps take us back to a time when we were just learning to crawl. I've been checking out youtube videos and so far I like it. Reading the book has really opened me up to so many's given me hope. The neuroplastic model of the brain is where it's at.

    As has been said so many times here: neurons that wire together, fire together! The more I think on that the more profound it is.

    My weight loss has plateaued, but I'm not worried about it. I'm still off sugar and booze. I'm also off sex at the moment, though I did not make a conscious effort to do so. I'm sure the wife and I will bump dee bump soon, but I'm honestly not that fussed about it. I'm feeling more creative in my life and less like I only have one thing that keeps me afloat. A good place to be, I think.
  20. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Ok words of wisdom Saville!:)
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