Too Late to the Party?

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Saville, May 15, 2016.

  1. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Tonym. :)

    Last night I talked myself into MO'ing and even considered doing it with P. Thankfully I kept away from the computer. I am still concerned about MO'ing, though. I know for some people it's not an issue, but for me it's really something I have to get serious about. This afternoon my wife and I had sex for the fourth time since I quit P. After no sex for two years this is incredible. :) However, because I MO'ed yesterday, I felt depressed after we made love. I could feel the funk coming on me almost immediately after O'ing. The rest of the day I was irritable and tired. In terms of penetration things were much better. I was able to fully penetrate her, and though it wasn't 100% comfortable I could tell she was enjoying it. Like the other 3 times she finished me off with her hand. I'm hoping it becomes comfortable enough for her soon so that I can finish naturally inside her. Still, a short time ago I was wondering if I (we) would ever have sex again. 8)

    I'm pretty happy with my progress, but I have a long way to go, and I know without vigilance I could backslide in seconds.
     
  2. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Once I take PMO and fantasy out of my equation I never struggle with MO, but everyone is different, it seems to be tripping you up and making you feel like shit.

    Personally I think MO to a PMO addict is always going to be an issue. I would go O-less for a while to get a handle on things again.
     
  3. Arizona

    Arizona All answers can be found within

    Agreed with the fantasy part. If MO comes with fantasy, it's very related to PMO.
    There's ways to MO based on the sensation of your body only. Google it if you want to learn more. I never got into it.

    In my case, I also realise that MO only comes with fantasies and rarely cause my body feels like it.
    I also tend to steer away from M and the periods I do, there's little to no urge to P as well.

    You have something valuable going on Saville. You meet your wife again in a beautiful way. Nourish this, cultivate this, by also becoming clean yourself. As good as you can. Cleaning up your act and growing intimacy with your wife appear related to each other.

    Take care.
     
  4. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the replies and support, guys.

    I read ITE on Arizona's journal say "just don't masturbate." Yup, that's a good rule. Keep it simple and just don't pull on the pud.

    I've been P free since April 20th, which I think is 91 days. Wow, can it be that long? I don't feel like I've been away from it that length of time, but there you go, one day free from it leads to another. I think in some ways I'm a quick rebooter, because I gained the ability to maintain an erection in very little time, and that was after having no sex for over two years. But, that is just a small part of the equation to being a fully-realized person. After my last O I was down for two days. My head felt full and I had difficulty staying awake. So, just don't wank! That's my new mantra.

    Along with nofap I've also cut down on another big distraction/sedation and that is booze. I'm not a big boozer, but most nights I like to have a couple of glasses of wine. I drink because I'm bored, the same reason I used to PMO. I drink because I want to deaden myself so I won't have to face up to a goodly part of my life having been wasted. Oh, wow, just like PMO.

    I see a lot of talk here about anhedonia. Well, no fucking wonder, because many of us have been walking around stoned out of our tree PMO'ing. As 40 says we've deadened all those good nerve pathways. I think whether one is a long or short rebooter that really feeling like ourselves, that inner core that is us, takes awhile. 90 days, 120 days, those are just baby steps and possibly not even the most important ones. If I am to reignite my flame then I must commit to a revolution on all fronts. I get glimpses of how joyously subversive that is, but I'm hoping one day I will feel fucking afraid, because that will mean I'm on the threshold of really being fully involved in my life.

    Fuck P, fuck the internet, fuck the pod person I became as a child, and just generally fuck the past. I intend on moving forward.
     
  5. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    Great post, Saville.
    91 days is fantastic, whether it seems that long or not!
    Funny you should bring up being a "quick rebooter". I think I must fall in that category. Flatlining for me just means that my dick shrivels up during the day, and rages when I'm sleeping. I suppose it doesn't matter much, because even if it doesn't take long for us to become fully functional in bed with a real woman, the goal is still to eliminate porn from our lives. Even if the two could coexist, we still shouldn't allow them to. Because P, like you say, has robbed us of WAY too much of our lives.

    I learned a new word today, thanks to you and the guys: anhedonia. There is probably a good percentage of us here, including the readers out there, that suffer from this. At least to some degree. I don't think it's irreversible, since rewiring by its very nature should return our brains to a more normal state. What a concept; we're learning to be normal humans again! Or, as you put it, OURSELVES.

    Hear, hear!!!
     
  6. Arizona

    Arizona All answers can be found within

    Yeah, the evenings are partly sedated for me as well. Alcohol is never a thing for me. It's watching movies and tv series. I try to cut that down. At least the urge to. Watching itself is no bad thing. Watching to turn away from unrest of loneliness is.

    If I'm with my gf though, we hardly ever sedate in the evening. And it feels nice. And it never bores. At least not the first two years. And you may think that it's all sex and hanky panky, but it's not. It's just natural being together and being fulfilled with each other's presence. Sometimes sex, sometimes cuddling, sometimes a bike ride, but mostly just hanging. In rest, enjoying just being.

    Yeah, no M is probably best. I try not to enforce it on myself, but do let go of it as much as possible without feeling compulsive.
     
  7. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    With reduced D2 receptors, it makes perfect sense that we would suffer from anhedonia. Reset the receptors and that emotional and mental state goes away, eventually, gradually over time.

    I've noticed 3 months porn free brings me into a great state of mind, but also think there's more ground to cover, higher states of mind; I will find out this year if I'm right about that because porn really is not an option for me now.

    And I'm aware that even at 100 days clean cravings will still hit from out of the blue; this was my biggest mistake over the last few years...believing that once you get good benefits that you're free from irrational cravings of the addiction. It's very possible that those could hit from out of nowhere at any time for the rest of my days...the thing is that now I'm prepared for that and I know that's coming.
     
  8. wilder

    wilder Member

    Saville the savage, getting it again from the wife 8)

    I'm just curious how much time you spend at the gym and how many days a week. That's been my saving grace from boredom because of the chemicals released while/after working out. I feel like I come out some higher being, even though I know it's just the psychological and chemical impact of exerting the physical strength :p

    Also, such a good observation about people on this site feeling worthless and the potential correlation to Nice Guy Syndrome. After having read only about 60 or 70 pages of "No More Mr Nice Guy!", I honestly feel like so many people on this site should check it out... the content is pretty decent.

    Cheers mate!
     
  9. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Arizona, I watch way too many TV shows over the internet. I waste a good amount of time binge watching. So, that is also on my list of things to eliminate. Having given up the porn I feel more ready to tackle this. I think if I can stay the course on no MO'ing then I can really make progress on a number of fronts.

    40, yeah, these pesky D-2 receptors. It's incredible how we've wired our brains to make us miserable. I often wished that I felt more miserable, because at least that would be an intense feeling. Porn and masturbation lead us to that low-level energy state where we have just enough energy to hold down a job, but not much else. There are so many bright men on this site and yet so many of us are, or have, wallowed in mediocrity. I love having found this site, because for the first time in my life I feel challenged by all of you to really make a go of living. I'm grooving on this incredible male energy that is seeking affirmative change.

    Hey, Wilder. I work out at the gym 4 times a week. I was a fairly strong man until I got rather badly injured. I've been rehabbing for months. Now I go to the gym and stretch with bands and do super light weights. Not sure if I'll ever lift heavy again. I miss the rush. But, at 56 I'm aware that I must work out differently. I've been trying other ways of working out, like yoga, and am finding it a nice replacement. Psychological and chemical changes are what we're looking for, so your workouts sound awesome. :D Staying fit, staying off P, not MO'ing (for me, anyway) are all part of a concentrated front against living a lame life.

    Nice guy syndrome is real and it has dragged us down the shitter long enough. No more!

    Saville the Savage. haha I LOVE that! 8)
     
  10. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    OK, so I just MO'd. I said six days ago that I was going to go without, but...nope! :p It felt longer than six days, which might be because I'm feeling in a flat line. There are so many things going on, really. Here's a few things I've noticed:

    -My memory is better. :)
    -My wood is much better and after O'ing my pecker stays hard for a bit. Before I went P-free I had trouble sustaining an erection at all.
    -I get randomly aroused even when I'm feeling in a funk. The other day at the store I got a full-on boner as though I was a teen again. I started reading package labels so the damn thing would go down. Ha ha Before I would have killed for that kind of display. Anyway, it's cool that I got an embarrassing erection ;D.
    -At the moment I'm more tired than I can ever recall. I've been napping, which is something I seldom need to do. Having read other journals, 40's in particular, I can see that the body is in a period of adjustment. I think it's like kicking cigarettes or heroin, to be honest. Obviously it doesn't feel physically as devastating, but the withdrawal is real. I would not have believed that before I started this quest for freedom from PMO'ing. I would have told anyone saying that to me: "bullshit!" Shows you how much I knew. :-\ And, it also shows me I must not make snap judgments about anything, as there are no doubt many holes in my logic and knowledge.

    Another thing, and I've kind of mentioned this before, is that I now know I never knew how to be intimate, nor sensitive. Those were the two things I thought I had nailed down. No matter what happened in my life I always thought I'd completed my development on those two fronts. Oops, got it wrong. :eek: What I was, was a supreme actor. I was so good that I not only convinced the partners I had of my fineness, but also myself. My wife and I didn't lose our intimacy, because she was a bitch and I was a cheater. No! It was because we never had it to begin with. What we had was great chemistry and the boning at the beginning was really good. A lot of positives have been happening, but I still realize that I'm not feeling my life fully yet. I have a long way to go.

    Can I go two weeks without a MO? The one thing I will say is that I never use the death grip, anymore. There is so much more feeling in my dick now and just touching it lightly is more than adequate. I also don't need to rub it as though I'm shining Aladdin's lamp. 8)

    Lots of good things and some tough things. No one said it was going to be easy!
     
  11. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    My body is still adjusting and I think it will for quite some time (I was a heavy user for a long time)...but as you have noticed many benefits arrive very early in the process! It's amazing to feel like a kid again in so many ways.
     
  12. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    40, I'm looking forward to ever more changes in my body and life. It is sustaining to read about your experiences; we are not alone!

    Two days after I wrote about trying not to MO, I MO'ed again. :'( I was grooving on feeling my sexual energy and thought that the wife and I might get intimate, but when I saw those plans scuppered I caved. I was almost falling asleep, but wanked anyway. I was thinking, even as I wanked, "why am I doing this?" I haven't watched P in 96 days, but I'm still failing on the MO front. I'm thrilled that I've stayed off P, but frustrated that the way I'm dealing with it is to allow myself to orgasm with my hand. :mad:

    Today I read on mc_rewired's journal something very interesting. Early on, before we ever thought about P, we were traumatized in some way. Here's what he wrote:

    Not only that, though. Our responses to stimuli, or lack thereof, is because of diminished frontal cortex development from our childhood. And, I quote mc_rewired again:

    This rings true to me. Of course, the most important thing is that we develop strategies to unplug from our addiction/s. The past in many ways is irrelevant, except where it informs in a positive way our future. But, what I am gaining from mc's explanation is hope! I already know I'm stuck in a rut, an addict, and have wasted a lot of my life. At 56 I have less years in front of me than are behind me. I am approaching the winter of my life in terms of how many more useful years I will live. I want to make these years count, but in the back of my mind I'm fearful if I will ever really change. Yes, I'm closer with my wife and my pecker works well, but what about the ennui I feel, the sense that I will get too old, too quickly, and that I will never feel passion again. This is why mc's explanation gives me hope. There was a cause, and still is, as to why my life (with rare exception) has been stuck in a rut. This is also why staying off of P and not Mo'ing is critical, because following those paths disallows the frontal cortex to develop. I think this is in line with the dopamine explanation, as well.

    Today I have hope. Today I feel a bit more energy than I had yesterday. Today I think that maybe I stand a chance. The collective wisdom on this forum is unreal. This is why it is so critical for us to participate fully, as we are stronger together. I've tried "fixing" myself, by myself...that doesn't work!
     
  13. ResetMe

    ResetMe Member

    There is hope, you can do this. Give yourself the positive re-enforcement with bonding with your wife. Especially when you want to O, even if it's a MO, have her do it. Or better yet.... Do her!

    You can do this Saville!
     
  14. Gone fishing

    Gone fishing Active Member

    Unfulfilled Expectations of sex and the sense of entitlement can be a trigger.

    Seems to me the real addiction is to ejaculation not necessarily P or MO.
     
  15. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    MO can be very addictive, it may not bring PIED like porn does but it can bring negative effects. I'm 42 so I remember the days before high speed internet porn too, and even then I was an edger and used MO to run away and hide...nowhere near the level as I did with high speed internet porn but it was still a negative force in my life. You're doing great by abstaining from P though!
     
  16. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Woah, lots of important stuff has been said. Thank you!

    I MO'd the last two days in a row, so what you all are saying is timely, indeed. I almost reached for my laptop the last time so I could view some porn, but pushed it away. At least that's one area I seem to be doing well on. I've felt tired, irritable, and down, and so I guess I'm MO'ing to feel better. I will have a talk with myself, telling myself I have a choice, but I don't resist very hard. I used to PMO every day and often two or three times; that my life has taken a positive turn since joining this forum there can be no doubt. I have to remind myself of that so that I don't get to deflated and then just cave altogether.

    I exploded at my daughter the other day, a way over the top reaction. She was being stroppy with me, but I just went off like dynamite. I apologized, of course, but it rattled me that I was that out of control. I couldn't sleep all night, feeling depressed at my reaction, and also that I might have ruined the relationship between me and my daughter. Of course, that was me catastrophizing, because she and I are solid. We've always been close and me misbehaving once is not going to hurt that in any way. She told me "it's ok to blow up once in awhile and I still love you." As a "nice guy" I hate confrontation and that others will think poorly of me, so I thought a lot about that, as well. Oy, this trying to figure one's life out is not easy.

    ResetMe: Thank you! You're right, I can do this. I need that positive reinforcement with my wife. It's definitely begun and now I have to allow that to be my only outlet for O'ing. She's pulled back a bit on the affection, which could be her own demons hitting her.

    Nofapado: You're right about triggers. Bingo! I'm definitely addicted to MO'ing with fantasy, as that was my go to for decades. Perhaps that is more my addiction than P, but for the last number of years I've used exclusively P to cum, and I honestly couldn't have imagined going without it. I had the death grip and cruised P constantly at night and whenever I was alone. So, I'm definitely addicted to P, as well, but perhaps more to MO'ing. I think ejaculation is what it's all about anyway, isn't it? So, in a sense we're all addicted to that little hit that we finally get after our hours of building up to it.

    40New30: I had PIED or MIED or both. And, as you say, sexting is also the same kind of thing. Thanks for the support, bro'!

    These last posts have been important. Feeling renewed. :)
     
  17. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    I'm addicted to P, edging, MO, dating sites. All interrelated by now for my brain! Neurons that fire together will absolutely wire together...I think this might be why a lot of guys don't heal up (they don't give up MO or O or edging and no unwiring can take place).

    You're doing great, pulling back from P is a huge victory. :)
     
  18. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Thanks, 40, I appreciate your feedback so much. I found giving up the P relatively easy, although I still think about looking every day. Now I just have to stop the fapping. I've wanked the last two days in a row and thought about doing it a second time. Today I noticed that the orgasm was slightly less strong from before and so here we go, back to shitty O's, because I can't leave myself alone. Grrrr!! :mad: I don't even find myself that good looking so why am I always all over myself. :p

    It's weird, because every day now I feel horny, like wildly so. I'm 56 and I'm getting spontaneous woodies while sitting in my chair at home not doing anything, or even thinking sexual thoughts. Is it possible to be feeling more sexualized since stopping P? It's like I crave cumming. (Nofapado said the same)

    My bedroom window overlooks my neighbors pool and today when I saw her lounging in her lawn chair I got an immediate hard on and just had to MO. I swear I'm not a peeping Tom :eek: (I didn't look at her while fapping), but it did spur me to rub one out. :-[I guess this is really just a P substitute. It's not real, not in any way.

    When I was watching P everyday I often didn't even feel horny. I would do it as a matter of course. I felt very little stimulation in my dick and I was often soft when O'ing. Now I'm getting aroused and rock hard. It's like another switch got turned on in my brain. What gives? ???
     
  19. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I slept well last night and feel good. As so many others here have said: one day at a time. I've quit a number of things in my life and done it cold turkey, so I thought this would be no different. Heh heh, wrong, wrong, wrong. The demons (I use this term metaphorically) love it when I take concrete measures toward my health.

    Since quitting P I began drinking more and eating way more sugar. Substitutes much? Duh! Stopping one thing, but upping another is a circle of deception. So, like many here have said: one day at a time I'm going to have to do this. I've been witness to my brothers here growing and succeeding and this has steeled my resolve to move forward in an affirmative way.

    Quoting what 40 said again. This is it here. It's not complicated to understand. Time to rewire, unwire, retire, from P, fantasy, and MO'ing. I have a choice!
     
  20. Tony74

    Tony74 Guest

    I hear you bro, you've got this!!

    One day at a time!
     

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