Too Late to the Party?

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Saville, May 15, 2016.

  1. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member


    Women seem to do that. Bringing old situations up is a way of exerting power and a way of exerting influence. It's a form of guile that their mothers teach them since they don't have strength and they are taught to not directly confront a situation. Heather tries that diminishing trick with me sometimes-- I just ignore her shit and she gets the message real soon. She once asked me why I didn't do something --- I just said " I don't want to do it that way" and didn't smile. She just looked at me and I think was fuming BUT didn't dare say anything--- she knew I was ready to "go downtown!"
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  2. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    I was thinking of why women always bring up the past. It's what I said plus it's a power struggle. Heather tried that real bad once. I said" you know if you don't like it you know what you can do !" She answered that " why do you have to be right all the time!" Very softly I said "Heather if you think you're obvious wonderful female charms mean I am going to listen to you bitch at me you had better think again honey!" She couln'dt get out of house fast enough. She called me later and apologized for her actions. They (women) are ok but they all become 2 years old when they need to be right to keep the power base. Am I a rightous male chauvinist--- maybe so but you know that I am at peace and happier than ever before. If that shit gets to heavy with Heather it will be time to move on. It's about me my brothers as it's about you !;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  3. NCBob

    NCBob The 11th commandment: Thou shalt not peek:-)

    Hey Saville, do I hear an echo here?:)

    Hope you are well:)
     
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  4. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Ha ha Echo..echo...echo...echo. :)

    I'm thinking about parents today, because I posted on @Caoimhín and @NCBob 's journals where they talked about their parental units. They have such a profound influence on us, obviously. I actually married my mom. So, somewhere inside me I have an Oedipal complex. I couldn't bang my mother to gain favor, so I found a proxy who would spread her legs for me. The struggle with my wife is the struggle I had with my mom. Even though I was a "great little helper" at home, by doing poorly at school I could get back at my mom. Same in my marriage. By being a great housekeeper I could do a shit job of being a provider to get back at her. My wife (mom) needed to take care of me; I needed her to show me love no matter what. Cheating was also a mechanism to get back at her. How perfect that I could be so naughty and still get accepted back. My wife also has huge issues, because what self-respecting woman would take back a cheating-loser like me? It ain't because of my fabulous dick, that's for sure. I have mommy issues, while my wife has them with daddy. Oy!

    This is why we must be austere with ourselves as we seek to reconnect with our precious inner life. All this acting up and out has to stop. The circus is a shitty one. We are both part of the freak show.

    I've done well at keeping PMO at bay. I've done well at redefining the relationship with my wife. However, as @A New Man quoted in his journal, and I requoted back, "however much a man toils, and however many righteous things he performs, to feel that he has done nothing, and in fasting to say, ‘This is not fasting,’ and in praying, ‘This is not prayer,’ and in perseverance at prayer, ‘I have shown no perseverance; I am only just beginning to practice and to take pains’"

    It's just the beginning. There is more pain to come, more practice to be done. My relationship with myself still sucks. It's better, but I'm just a bit higher up in the gutter. I'm not pulling myself down, just being realistic. It's time to go further, to push harder. I am still, on certain levels, fooling myself. Yes, we must have compassion for ourselves, but that compassion must not obfuscate the bigger and more daunting task of totally getting real, of showing real perseverance.
     
  5. Caoimhín

    Caoimhín Winter's coming...

    So, this is absolutely true. I've avoided this conclusion for years however. But now that I know that I cannot avoid pain in my life, I am grudgingly accepting that I must even embrace it. I recently heard someone say that pain is the greatest opportunity to learn in life. And damn it all, once you get through one pain the horizon slips further away. I am not saying that all of life is pain but, I think, because we do so much to avoid it, we actually enhance it. But it is a on-going path and there is no destination.
     
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  6. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is very much a struggle for power. Increasingly women are wearing the pants. This is part of the social change, the grand experiment, if you will. I know my wife wants to be in-charge of everything, even things she knows nothing about she wants her opinion heard.

    Keep on, keeping on, everyone! :)
     
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  7. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    I could observe this with my parents every day. My Father could not handle my mother, he is a weak man, a nice guy and my mother who grew up without a Father, was always trying to gain power over him In a way it was the fault of both. Of Course the law is now so fucked up for men that it makes it much more difficult to stand up against your wife when in the back of your mind you know what will happen in court if your wife divorces you, especially with Little Kids. The funny Thing is, that in my one longer relationsship with a women after we lived together for a few months, I noticed that she was almost the same as my mother. That was when I told her that it would be better to separate. When I went not her way she started to give me the silent Treatment, when I stood up against her and made my own decission she cryed. But I have to admit that I was almost as weak as my Father at this Point in my life. We should really have something like the Indians when the Boy went alone in the Wilderness, got his Name and a Kind of iniciation ceremony without women present. Women and also our mothers can really mess up our growth into a man. I was thinking about finding a role model for a man, but other than in books, I cant think of a man that I would like to become. Do you have a role model in your mind when it comes to beeing a man, Saville?
     
  8. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Wow, thanks for asking me an easy question. lol

    To answer your question directly, no, I don't have a role model. I guess I'm trying to not have any model. It's easy to get captivated by someone's personality or imagine that someone's life is they way we would like to live ours. With the information I get by reading the pages here, as well as a few books, I've tried to tie those things into my own being. I've boiled things down to basics and just try to follow through as best I can.

    I have a list of wants. I want to be an honest man. This means I'm not hiding anything somewhere in my closet. It means that I try my best not to rationalize certain behaviors, such as PMO, drinking too much, etc. It means dropping the fantasy that some day I'll write a best-seller or run a marathon. Life is action, or at least a good life is. Writers write, runners run, artists paint, helpers help, etc. I think knowing this is more important than having a role model. It would nice if someone could take us by the hand and guide over rough waters, but that doesn't exist anymore. There are courses and retreats, but mostly these are self-serving. They help for a moment, but then when the quiet of the retreat is over we are back in our own homes, staring again at the chasm in ourselves. (I still believe in doing retreats and courses, but ultimately we are responsible for any change)

    The more I've thought on your question the more I think: what a great fucking question!

    It used to be when people got older that they would mentor the younger generation. Those roles seem to have fallen away. Now older people are fucking selfish. Everyone is running around trying to be young, trying to feel important, trying to stay busy so they won't see how useless their lives have been. Giving to the youth is an amazing gift, I think. Why are we all such selfish cunts?

    I think at our ages we have to ignite our own force into being. We will never be ready. There is no magic amount of meditation sessions or psychologist visits that will prepare us. So, what role am I following?

    First: No fap/no PMO This is already a great role to follow.

    Second: Don't make excuses when I fail to do something.

    Third: Be gentle on myself when I fail...we're all going to fail. In fact, the more we engage the world the more we will fail.

    Fourth: do the things I say I'm going to do. If I tell myself that the windows need cleaning then fucking do it. Follow through is key.

    Five: Enjoy the things that the day has put in front of me.

    Six: Have a plan for the day. (I just started working on this) If we have no plan then boredom can set in. Once we are bored, we are sunk.

    Seven: This could go under number 6. If I'm going to drink or get stoned, then plan that out for that day. Don't just let drinking and toking happen. It's better to have my day of debauchery planned so that I can deal with the fatigue the next in a positive way.

    My thinking is that each and every day we have to create the role we want. Today I'm a guy who gets shit done. Today I enjoy myself. Today I'm going to be on fire and I'll maybe do something crazy.

    I would like to hear other men's opinions. :)
     
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  9. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    The God of this world is also the father of lies. Before modern times you learned if you wanted to do something from a master. There was no idolatry only for "gods!" Today there is much "bull " and monetary concern.
    I don't wish to be like anyone, I am unique as are they. If they have some skill I wish to obtain I ask, schools to learn it are false. It is simply a way to create a industry and to make $. Schools are created to "erase your brain!"The educational system is just that a system that channels desire to accomplish a skill into profitable endeavor, for them!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  10. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thanks for taking the time, Saville. These are great Points for a solid foundation.
    I think it is my weakness and lack of confidence who wants to look for outside guidance, something to hold on on the outside because of my insecurities on the inside.

    Get to know yourself, I avoided that for most of my life because of the pain.

    I think People who know you well can see when you deviate from your own path (out of stress, confusion, circumstances, illness and for whatever reason) and guide you to find your way back to yourself again. I did not mean it in the sence of becoming a copy cat of another Person. More like a guidance or role model, someone who found himself, became a real man, the best Version of himself, knows how to handle women, work and life in General Maybe because he made nearly all mistakes himself in his early days or he had a Mentor so he had not to make all mistakes himself. Of Course he has faults and weaknesses, but he was able to overcome most of them and reach a Point of wisdom.
    The Question came to me when I watched the Show Gold rush, I´m a uge fan of it, one of the participants, Parker Schnabel, had for many years the guidance of his grandpa, his grandpa was around 90 years back than, a former Mayor of the town, former boss of a sawmill with in the hights 120 employees and became after his retirement a Hobby Miner. Parker himself, from my opinion was a prick with People, not very talented with People, he said that ones About himself, but was Always a very hard worker. To make it short, under the guidance of his grandpa and Father, who suported him whenever he made mistakes or was down, Parker managed to get from a couple of ounces the first Season, now to his own Company with I Think now 24 years old, who mined the last Season over 7000 ounces of Gold. I meant it in this way, his Father was never a miner, he has a street Building Company, his grandpa was never a professional miner, he had only a Little Hobby mine with one excavater, so he did not copy blindly one of them or became like them, but the guidance of both were sure as hell escential for his growth as a Person and Mine boss. They suported him the whole time, even with tougth love when he was in the wrong.

    Things Change very fast in todays Society and so we maybe think that our elders wisdom is not very usefull for today?
    Age was a honorable Thing, today it seems in western societies treated more like the contrary. Just rambling here.

    To come to an end, your rules are very good for self guidance and if we souround ourselfs with like minded People who have strong believes and a solid foundation, they will call us out if we deviate from them.
     
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  11. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    From what I can see, this is true. Liberal Arts have been decimated as universities pour money into their business schools. Even the sciences are seeing dwindling enrollment. The corporate machine has all but taken over. The corporate model is worshiped.

    Wisdom has no place. It's why people say things like 40 is the new 30 (which is no slight to our former member here, as he was talking about being free from PMO). Plastic surgery, tanning, wearing hip clothing, is all part of the denigration of age. We aren't allowed to grow old anymore - we're forever young. If parents are competing with their kids then they can hardly mentor them.

    Even with a mentor we must be true to ourselves. What does this truth look like? To many here it looks and sounds like: I'm a loser, I'm tired, I'm depressed, I'll never have passion for anything. But, that isn't a truth, as we all know. That's just a mantra that got stuck on repeat. When I was five years old I knew that I loved the outdoors. When I saw hills I wanted to climb them. I had the heart of an adventurer. I also liked to make people laugh and was a natural comedian. I loved music and would listen and dance to Strauss Waltzes over and over. I've thought a lot about this over the last three years. So, what's my truth then? I think my truth was to be around people, making them laugh, and maybe traveling over hills to do so. My natural inclination was to be a free-spirit, a person who would do different things, all in an effort to share with other some of the internal beauty that I felt. This may sound rather nebulous, as what I've written doesn't sound like a job. But that's just what @Bobo wrote and I commented on...education has made us feel that there is only one job out there and that job is making money, so we can pay taxes to rich oligarchs (priests) and feel like we are contributing, when, in actual fact, we are just a hamster on a wheel. Phew!

    So, the trick is, I think, to go back to our childhood. Not so that we can figure out where it all went wrong, but so we can remember how right we felt. When we were young we had parents who we had to obey, but that didn't stop our dreams or the ring of truth that we were born with. When we get older we feel we don't have the time to dream and it isn't practical anyway. So, every year we feel less, as we keep the lid on our honest self, the self that was born into this world as its own entity. What's to stop us from dreaming, from daring to believe what we knew as a five year old, might be just the way to go now? Nothing! We may have surrogate parents in the form of bosses, wives, children, and bills, but they don't get to dictate what we think.

    What do we have when we're young? The most important thing we have is neuro-plasticity. Wow, there's that wonderful word that we all learned when we realized we were hooked on PMO. And, WOW, our brain can change and we can get boners again (even at my age) and we can begin enjoying sex again and we can rewire to the touch of another human being. Wow, wow, fucking wow! There is no evidence that we can not rewire our brain when we're older, and, in fact, there are many here who are proof that we can!

    Just yesterday I came across a book by Norman Doidge "The Brain's Way of Healing." He talks about brain signals being packets of energy, because they actually are energy and can be measured. Some signals are self-defeating, they are stuck on repeat, and these literally make us feel tired. When we rewire these signals by different thinking and doing we literally get an energy-boost, as our brain reengages to fulfill our five year old dreams. This last sentence is my take on it, but it is a book I am going to buy today. You can watch Norman Doidge talk about his book on youtube.

    The medical establishment is so self-defeating that we all believe we need a pill or medical intervention to overcome certain illnesses, such as Parkinson's, MS, depression, but there are credible people out there doing incredible work on these things. I'm not doing justice to all this, because I don't feel like writing my own book here online, but there is SO much more out there. Remember, the establishment wants us to stay stuck. The bible says "when I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, but when I became a man I put away my childish ways." This is terrible advice. It literally is telling us to separate from ourselves, to kill off our birthright. I think it should read "When I was a child I spoke, understood, and dreamt, a child. Now I'm a man I embrace all of me."
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  12. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    I gave much thought to the subject above. Has been on my mind much of last nite and today. It appears that being true to oneself is diametrically opposed to where the world is going. People ( general sense) are it would seem into what I don't know and neither do they. Today's world tries to tell you that concern for others is of paramount importance even to the harm of self if necessary as a matter of fact the more self- sacrificing proves the validity and worth of the action. Problem = this is false! Oops be back!Back--- the previous statement is like saying that as long as the end is positive it does not matter what kaos is caused by the action. What is caused does matter. You need to work on self, others are important BUT not at the expense of self. For me was a very important part of recovery I had to learn. If you cannot keep yourself healthy you cannot help others despite what the prevailing opinion says. The prevailing opinion is derived by those to create mediocrity, to create a system to control. If you want to continue to learn about self you must reject this control. You must accept the fact that if you take this road you do so understanding that you will be the odd man out. Is it worth it ?---- yes, it is. You become a better person not a unit that can be controlled.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  13. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    That question is still circiling in my brain. Need more time to think. Sat nite dancing gig was ok and quite interesting. Guy really made a play for Heather. She I guess she told him no thanks and then he became belligerent and nasty talking and called her a white whore with a black skin. Heather complained to manager and he told him he had to leave. I then told Heather that's what she gets for being sexy ( I was joking) but Heather cut me a new ass and told me I was a damm fool! She was cool to me the rest of nite. So home we go and no " punani ", she gets out of truck and says goodnite and goes in her house. Ya know I was a bit miffed ( not because of no punani) but how she treated me. Oh well I will get over it. My grandpa once said " you can't live with them boy and can't live without them." LOL !Grandpa sure do miss him !Work Monday damm!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  14. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Heather just called. Upset at me ( what did I do,?) At any rate guess I should not have joked about situation at club she says. Ok- so maybe I didn't show the proper concern. I told her the same would have happened of we were married! She asked me if I was asking her and I said NO ! Then she got pissed again. I think I need to go to the wild land this week or next. Next week we have a break from club. Heather is really starting to annoy me. This crap is par for the course, I know there is something bothering her in her life. Thing is I don't want to know--- I know it's selfish but thats the way I feel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  15. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I have used this kind of humor before and it usually falls flat on its face. You minimized what she was feeling. I think this one's on you, bud. You've spoken that you need some one on one time, so no doubt that was going through your head last night. She looks at you as her protector, and, of course, she wants you to pop the question. You on the other hand are getting weary of the expectation that you must be or do anything. You dancing at the club is a metaphor for your relationship.

    I found the book I mentioned above in the library. I read some of it last night, but I'll have to go over it as I was too sleepy to take it all in. I can tell it's going to be a fascinating read. I will share some insights once I get a bit further into it.

    The wife has been very affectionate, of late. Sticking her tongue in my mouth when we're just hugging and grinding a bit. I enjoy it and take it for what it is. Next week she could be stressed and hiding in a corner.

    I think we need to learn some new skill on this journey. The brain has this plasticity, but it relies on new input in order to change. Whether that's learning a new language, painting, dancing, memorizing poetry, or what have you. The brain needs to develop new connections if it is to keep growing in a positive direction. One thing I've gleaned from the book so far is that it isn't just the brain that dictates what and who we are. Our bodies are not infrastructure for the brain, which is how science viewed things before. Our body came before our conscious brain and so in many instances the body can inform the brain. An example from the book: if a person has a stroke and can't move their left leg, say, then previously (and still many doctors hold to this stance) it was reckoned that there was nothing to be done, because that part of the brain was damaged forever. However, what is now evident is that having someone manually stimulate the leg and ankle can in turn stimulate a part of the brain. In other words, the brain gets the message that the leg wants to move and it endeavours to make new connections to make that happen. Amazing! :)

    Hope everyone is doing well. Party on!
     
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  16. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    That is really interesting. I think it also shows in when you do yoga or get a massage and can really feel certain emotions (seemingly) coming from your body. As if tension is stored there or in the part of the brain that interacts with that body part.

    A YouTube (TED) video I once saw was about how you can deal with anxiety by changing your body posture. It is generally accepted that a certain body posture comes with a certain mental state, but you can change your mental state also by changing your body posture, also on the long term until it is natural. They called it: fake it till you make it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  17. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Neuro-plasticity a truly fascinating subject and a amazing occurence. I have a friend that had a stroke and he now talks without a lisp , walks without a limp and uses no cane and has complete use of his right arm and hand he does everything we do. You cant tell he had a stroke! Amazing neuro-plasticity!Later I have to do shit for work !
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  18. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    The brain will learn a new pathway if you make it understand that is what you want. I understand strokes why ---because I had one years ago. Doctors will tell you what you get in the first 3 months is it that's what you are going to get. Bullshit, your brain can change, it can learn and adapt. It will bypass the damaged area be it from bleed or clot and rewire, it takes time-- it's like a baby learning to walk except you did it already you have a positive advantage. Sounds like a fascinating book for for us pmo addicts to ingest Saville. Will wait to hear about it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  19. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Yup-- way it goes! Though I was not trying minimize that's what she thought. Yes, you're correct I am tired of the expectation of doing and being. Maybe its time to go will see. Heather is a wonderful person but she is a woman--- that's it right there. Like Grandpa said " cant live with em and cant live without em.":p
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  20. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that's cool. The body informing the brain to WAKE UP! Hey, even brains need a wake up call, now and again. :)

    Woah, that's wild. There's a quote at the beginning of the book, a Chasidic saying: "Just as the hand, held before the eye, can hide the tallest mountain, so the routine of everyday life can keep us from seeing the vast radiance and the secret wonders that fill the world."
     
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