Too Late to the Party?

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Saville, May 15, 2016.

  1. Squire

    Squire Well-Known Member

    How are you doing buddy Saville? You do such powerful work mentoring everyone else. I wonder sometimes, do you get what you need at YBR? What do you find most helpful from others? I wonder too if you ever relapse or have really down days and feel you can't write about it because you think it would let others down? Sometimes we put people on a pedestal and then it might feel to them they are not allowed to be human.

    Just wanted to touch base with you, to tell you that you are important to me. No one has helped me in my recovery more than you. No one. I will always be grateful for you and the things you have taught here. And if you have any weaknesses or failures, that would not diminish my regard for you or sense that you have worthwhile things to share and are an excellent model to follow.

    You are probably just busy with summer stuff. But everybody needs some encouragement and to know they are loved and appreciated from time to time, even on good days. Thank you my friend and I hope your day is the best today. :)
    Libertad likes this.
  2. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Bobo, TheScriabin, Dig Deep, Guy, and Libertad for writing on my journal. You guys rock!

    I'm doing well! As trite as it sounds, and I've said it many times here, I get more than I give. This is why I harp on people to be active in their journals and in the journals of others. It's wonderful when we can see our "good works" reach fruition, in a sense, but the real gold is what we give ourselves. I do care about everyone here, but I remind myself that I'm here for me. We have all been the spring board for everyone else and so, I believe, that true healing comes when we give ourselves permission to experience selfishness. I found there is no danger, only benefit, in being self-centered, because by nature we are good people and tend to want the best for others. We are rather too developed in giving, as NMMNG highlights.

    I have not relapsed to PMO even once since finding this site. It is not because I had more strength than others, but simply put: it was my time. I did struggle mightily at the beginning; the old demons never really go away. However, I embraced my new religion, the religion of no PMO/MO. With single mindedness I've made this my only quest. Instead of 50 places to put my attention I have only one. I'm a prisoner with a spoon and I'm digging out. Amazing things happen as we tunnel our way out, but the method to the outside remains the same: dig and keep digging.

    I have relapsed to MO, not frequently, but it's happened. I have always written about it here so as to be accountable. I have MO'd once since the middle of February, and I hope never to do so again. Giving in to PMO or MO is defeat, pure and simple. At this stage of my journey I simply can not allow that this behavior has any use or cut myself slack for being human. If I cave it's because I want to cave. As I wrote before, the old wiring will always be there, like the aluminum house wiring of years past. You don't remove old wires, you simply cut them from their power source.

    Yes, I have down days. But, that's what cold showers are for. It is so easy to slide into the "poor me" mode, I did it all my life. It's why I seldom tolerate others demonstrating that type of thing on this forum. We all hate in others what we see in ourselves. Plus, I know, without a doubt, that we can change the narrative at any moment. I absolutely have the power to feel good. I might be tired because of a bad sleep, or work responsibilities seem heavy, but those are just excuses. I tell myself, almost every day: today is a great day. I smile and breathe in three times, just like Thich Nhat Hahn has recommended. My tiredness, my ennui, are a challenge to be better. For a long time we had only one tool in our tool box: PMO. Now, I have a few different tools. Cold showers, moving slowly, not thinking too much, turning thought into action, even if that is moving a plate into the dishwasher, walking with no purpose, and finding what joy I can in the mundane.

    I don't feel like I'm on any pedestal, though I'm definitely clawing myself to higher ground. I am still afraid to fail, but not in the realm of PMO. I've even given myself permission to watch it. I tell myself "you know that is a demon, you know you turned to that at the worst point in your life, so go ahead and go there if you'd rather forgo living a life of value"....or words to that effect.

    Thank you, Squire.

    I'm not that busy, or no busier than usual. I come here and read posts, but I have times where I don't have much to say, where I'm more of a listener than a speaker. It means a lot that you were thinking of me and took the time to write the above. I'm smiling at your goodwill, my friend.

    We are a community of amazing men...we're just going to have to deal with it. :)
    dig deep, Libertad and Squire like this.
  3. Squire

    Squire Well-Known Member

    Saville, I'm gushing now, but when I log on to YBR, what makes me happiest is to see that there is a "like" or a post from you. I feel like you are the brother/mentor I never had. You're not old enough to be a dad to me. But big brother, yes. I don't want to pick out curtains with you or anything. But if I were going to sit quietly on a lake fishing you'd be the guy I'd want to do it with. Thanks man. Truly.
    Bobo and Saville like this.
  4. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Pick out curtains? :p:p:D Holy shit ! Uh ......know about any sales ?:confused::cool:
    Boxer17 and Squire like this.
  5. Squire

    Squire Well-Known Member

    I don't want to pick out curtains with him. I could pick them out for him though. Yes. It's true. I do know a thing or two about interior design.

    Sigh. Clearly I have no man card left. I didn't just cash it in. I shredded it into confetti, threw it into the air, and made jazz hands. :oops:
    Boxer17 and Saville like this.
  6. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    :DNon-stop Hahaha ha! :p:p:p:p
    Saville and Squire like this.
  7. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Youre gonna be alright. Everyone roots for you ,and if they dont the he'll with them. Keep moving along dude ! :D:D:D:D
    Saville and Squire like this.
  8. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    I hope I´m not interrupting something here. A real promance going on. Keep it going. It makes this journey even more fun.:)
    Squire and Saville like this.
  9. madman

    madman Member

    You teach transparency with your examples, Saville. Love it !
    Squire and Saville like this.
  10. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    You have a man card. Speaking the TRUTH does not have anything to do with man cards. As a matter of fact manliness is about speaking the truth.
    Saville and Squire like this.
  11. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I was thinking about Squire's departure and decided to write a bit about it on my own journal. He was obviously highly distressed after his last fall, because it wasn't just with PMO, but involved showing body parts to others online. It seem to really send him on a tailspin. I thought he was getting over it, but I guess the guilt and shame hit him hard. We all know what he felt, as we've all been there.

    I did think, and still do, that @Joshua Shea was needling him too much, but you know what?: we're all big boys here! In order to get healthy we have to put our big boy pants on and deal. Sometimes people are going to say things that either intentionally, or unintentionally, bug us. Part of this journey for me has been to realize that I am responsible for every single thing that goes on. I'm in charge, I have the power. Freaking out at someone is just giving our power away. Running away because we can't stand the heat, is abandoning, at least in part, our recovery.

    @Squire was vulnerable and I for one failed to see it. But, we are all vulnerable. I did rush to protect him yesterday, because I felt a kind of responsibility to make sure he was OK. I'm glad I did. We all need to find that balance where we are honest and forthright, but also compassionate...I guess I've learned something. However, part of that compassion was also the nice guy, the guy who didn't want someone's feelings hurt. There is a line there where advice can become badgering and that's something that I still struggle with myself. Part of it is the nature of online correspondence. I might feel really good when I sit down to type, have a feeling like I'm on top of things, and that can make it hard to always write appropriately when someone, in another realm of cyberspace, is having a meltdown. At the end of the day all we can do is our best.

    When reading RD's journal he wrote, and I paraphrase: "guilt and shame are like bags of rocks, you can just drop them." That really hit me. I visualized those bags and then let them drop. I don't have enough time in my life to wallow in the all the shit I've done. Let others tell me I've been a bad man, if they want, but I've let that crap go. A thousand miles back are the scattered rocks of my guilt and shame and they are no longer a part of my life. My wife tries to bring up my infidelities from time to time, but I don't engage. I'm not going to be held hostage forever. She decided to stay with me (which I'm super thankful for) but I'm not so thankful that I'm going to kiss her ass for time immemorial.

    It sounds shallow, it sounds trite, but recovery depends on us growing a pair. Once we have that pair of big balls we are going to want to swing them around a little bit, because it feels fucking fine. @Squire, I love you bud, but you should come back and take responsibility for your own recovery. No one chased you chased yourself. Every couple of months we all come across demons, things we have to fight with to understand. We don't have to get it right every time and in fact we won't.

    I can now see that I did, indeed, push you as much as JS did, so I own that. I told you not to hide behind the skirts of family and faith, which must have sounded unkind. But, I still think that is true. The status-quo is a fucking son-of-a-bitch! It wants us to fail, to not grow, to not become fully fleshed out thinking creatures. Having said that: I don't always take my own advice. I'm also guilty of hiding behind this and that. It's why I say that as we write to others we are often just writing to ourselves. Because Squire you were unbelievably honest, you were easy for us to write to, because on that unconscious level you were reflecting our own shit back to us.

    Anyway, I've written enough. The way forward is by concrete action. We suck up the slip, scratch our hairy nuts, and embrace what's before us. We don't need to think through our troubles, because that's a pity party, that's wallowing. Make today better than yesterday. The End. We are in charge, we are "the man!"
    Libertad likes this.
  12. dig deep

    dig deep must stop wasting my life on porn

    When I did web camming it gave the biggest rush but also the biggest downfall into the porn pit and that awful feeling lasted days,if I think about what I did now god I feel such shame but those bags of rocks have been dropped. Times a great healer and I hope Squire will feel better in a few days and be back on here.
    If you did kiss her ass then you would be the Mr. Nice guy that turn you to porn.

    Your right when we write in other peoples journal it is partly for ourselves to help guide ourselves in this scary and exciting world that is opening up to us.
    TheScriabin, Libertad and Saville like this.
  13. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Thanks dig deep.

    Hey @Bobo I think you meant this for Squire's journal...unless you aren't writing to me anymore. :( :eek:

    I was reading some of my earlier writings and thought "shit, did I write that?" Same goes for all the small jobs I've done around the house these past two years. Shit, it really adds up. Even though I would love to have more energy, feel less down, feel more motivation, I'm having tiny victories all over the shop. :) Two days ago I just had zero energy. I thought maybe I was getting sick I was so bloody tired. But, nope, it was just one of those days. I decided to cut myself some slack and have a do nothing day, but I found myself watering the plants, weeding a bit, and tidied one very small corner of the garage. Even when we are at our lowest we are still moving forward, which I find remarkable. We all know that saying about a journey of a thousand miles starts with a first step. How true! Even if we just move an inch we are closer and these inches add up. A bit of paint here, a bit of caulking there, and my house is looking great. I suppose there are people who would get all the shit I've done finished in two weeks, not two years, but who cares? So, even the tiniest of movement, the most insignificant of accomplishment can, and does, add up.

    Yesterday I ate three mini chocolate bars and four cookies. Yeah, I'm not big for nothing. :D I wanted to eat another cookie, but I thought "no, that one stays in the bag." I'm still fat this morning, but not as fat as I would've been if I'd eaten that extra biscuit. It adds up, it's worth it, to keep inching forward. :)
  14. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Oops , yup squirès journal. Sorry about that. Sounds like you are getting stuff done. I deleted post so as to not muck up yours. Yes, of course I am still writing to you dude.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  15. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    I needed to read this very inspiring post of yours, because I still have this state and feeling of low energy often and in the past I beat myself up over it and put more pressure on myself. Now I try, as good as I can, to cut myself some slack too and do things that I´m inspired to do in this moments and try not to think so much why I´m often so down with low Energy and still often depressed. I hope that it is all part of the healing process and that it will get better over time.

    I like what you said About this a few Posts back. So true. Said by a true Philosopher called Seneca o no, my mistake, Saville.:)
    It really comes down in the end to a few simple things which need to be done with a firm believe in the process.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    Saville likes this.
  16. Just wanted to say that I'm pretty mind blown after reading this thread. I've skimmed a lot too as its a bloody long thread, but I have read much of it and start to realize that I have a long way to go. I guess I knew that really, but I'm still at the making excuses stage and while I desperately want to get rid of porn from my life I truly didn't think that meant no MO either. When I think of it I can;t even really imagine it. I also cannot really remember when I last didn't fantasize. After failing last night I'm back to day 1 today as I am clearly not making enough effort. When I told my wife about how I was looking at this whole thing differently now and that I was going try to understand it better rather than just rely on willpower she seemed really happy. It was the first time that I instigated such a conversation rather than responding to her questions of "how are you doing" which I know means "did you look at porn?". We even had sex twice in a few days which was great. But then as soon as she left for Germany for a week I failed again. I haven;t figure out why, but I have to start doing things differently...
    Libertad likes this.
  17. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    The reason is you wanted to. Addiction to P is chemical. We want the fix. So, we just have to get enough days in so that the pull of PMO lessens. To get to that point we need interventions, such as: cold showers, taking walks, sweeping the floor, etc. The brain craves some dopamine and so tells us to pull the pud. If we distract ourselves for a few minutes we will usually no longer "feel" horny. Nope, it ain't easy. But, a great life is in store once we stop sabotaging ourselves.
    Boxer17 and dig deep like this.
  18. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    You don't fail you learn.When you try again you have more ammunition.
    A New Man likes this.
  19. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I had a tough couple of weeks. Fatigue overwhelmed me at times and left me wanting naps and more naps. Then, I got a cold, which made me feel rather more down. We have times like this in life. We are going along and then, for some seemingly unknown reason, we begin to tank. I had sex with my wife, I O'd, I felt like shit. I forced myself to take care of some stuff, but everything felt rather hopeless. Yesterday, it all came to a head. My wife was telling how to improve my health, because she read some bullshit on the internet and I just let her have it. I mean, she was being so fucking stupid. A moron with a pussy hole, that's all I could see. My anger was such that she dared not start fighting back. I was man, putting my woman in her place. Outwardly it didn't last long, but inside I just couldn't drop the anger. I was just pissed off at everything. I sat down to eat and suddenly began to cry, and I mean sob. And, that's just what I needed, because afterward I started to feel a whole lot better. The dam of my emotions needed to break, I needed to access some shit I had been feeling. So, ultimately it's all good.

    After the O three days ago I wanted to fap and fap and fap. For the first time in ages I thought about some P-clips I used to like, and thought how easy it would be to just rub one out while watching one. But you know what? That would be giving into all the fuckers who ever made me feel badly about myself. That would be saying "mom, you were right, I'm just a loser." I would acknowledging to the bullies who used to push me around in school that they were absolutely right to threaten me with violence. Masturbating and watching P is a form of subservience. Well, I'm not going to be anyone's fucking servant, slave, kicking post.

    Over those two weeks a lot of incidents from my past had been coming up. Stuff I wasn't even bothered by at the time suddenly made me feel diminished in spirit and body; this is not an uncommon occurrence on this forum, having old stuff suddenly pop up. What is it about? It's the addict! It's the old voice that told us we were no good. It's the voice that always powered us down. It's looking for new ammunition and so it mines the memory banks for shit to feel bad about. Nothing is too far back, nothing too insignificant.

    Giving in to P and O is not so much failing ourselves, as giving power to all the people who ever were rude, mean, hurtful, harmful and abusive. Today I feel some compassion for those sorry fuckers, because the only way they could take away their own pain was to inflict it on me. Well, guess what? I don't accept your pain mother fuckers! I don't shine anyone's shoes, and if someone is going to some kicking it's going to be me! :)
  20. GreyHeron

    GreyHeron Active Member

    Saville, over the past couple of weeks my attention has been drawn to an aspect of you that I have lost in the bravado of your posts. Until now some of the stuff that is seen in other threads seemed to be in your history. Now it appears it is part of your story in this era. You have been one of those contributors that I have enjoyed following. To me you are more real now.

    Shining shoes is something I like to use as a distraction. :p
    Boxer17, Saville and Tomato76 like this.

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