Those lingering fetish triggers can be brutal

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by DoneAtLast, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    Hi guys,

    I don't post about my own efforts/struggles/history often in the past couple years. I tend to either be the one trying to help others deconstruct their own struggles or engaging in discussions in the abstract about the addiction. Some stuff has been on my mind, and I realized that it would be hypocritical of me to expect others to give details and be open if I don't say anything about myself.

    First off, no, I didn't relapse, nor do I think I am in imminent danger of doing so. What I struggle with is my primary fetish from my porn days. Sometimes days or weeks will go by without me thinking about it, other times it feels like it is right in front of my face all day. I don't feel tempted to go back to porn or masturbation... I've lost my taste for it, but the weird racing heart and anxiety I get with that stimulus will still come back. Instead of slipping into the usual PMO routine, I feel tempted to just sort of dwell or stew on it for a while.

    And that fetish is (drumroll please)... pregnant women. I honestly don't know if this weird taste pre-dates my porn addiction or not. I can elaborate more if it is of interest, but will leave it out for now because it is largely inconclusive, and would be quite long. I do know that it is a real fetish that exists outside of porn usage. What limited research a person can do on this shows that it is fairly common. It is common enough that there is almost always a sub-category on the major porn sites, PornHub reported very high search numbers at times, pregnant youtubers will get creepers, and there has always been a steady community of people with that fetish online for as long as I can remember even thinking to look. There was even material back in the VHS days; I wasn't a porn user in those days, but having spent years with the fetish I got to know what kind of material was out there. The fetish is common, but for obvious reasons creating the content for it is harder and it is more scarce than other things, so you get a feel for what is out there.

    A major problem is that this is a fetish that is basically G rated. No, I don't mean that it is a sweet, innocent kind of sexual attraction. I mean that you don't need to turn off safe search to see pictures of pregnant women, and you can run into a pregnant woman anywhere. Grocery store, church, coffee shop, you name it. The past few days were rough. I was checking something on Twitch a while ago, and stumbled on some pregnant streamers. I don't spend much time on Twitch (none really, can't even remember why I was on there now), but that certainly surprised me. This afternoon as I was driving home I saw a woman walking somewhere on the side of the road. She was massively pregnant, and in the eyes of a pregnancy fetishist, top notch. She was on foot, likely uncomfortable, and the weather was bad, so I had thoughts of offering her a ride somewhere. I was a little ways down the road when I realized the real motivation behind my thoughts and what it all meant.

    It packs a punch. I don't know if I haven't been diligent enough in staying away from those sorts of thoughts and materials, if it just needs more time, or if I'm stuck with it for life. I'm fully aware that we are the test-dummy generation for this. I wish there was more research (or even just good writing) on fetishes so I could have a better grip on what I was dealing with. I know it has some similar triggers as porn in general (loneliness for example), but otherwise because it is something so peculiar to me, it can be hard to predict. It doesn't help that you can see the biggest triggers right out in public. Heck, I still have memories of a year ago or so and seeing an entire pack of pregnant teenagers at a fast food place... why they were all there together and all at the same stage of pregnancy (very late), I have no idea, but there they were. That isn't as easy to avoid as just blocking certain websites.

    Anyway, not entirely sure why I'm sharing, but since there is a good handful of other "vets" that lurk this board, I thought I'd put it here and see if a discussion ensues. Who knows, if it helps someone else, then it is worth it.

    Be well, everyone.
     
  2. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

    May I know how old are you man? because I think that's one of the very few ways to quit porn: after you're dead emotionally. After you don't crave anything anymore which happens naturally as you age. You see, children for example are very excited about life and are very curious, even a stupid school trip will make them be awake all night from the excitement. Children hate sleep but we as adults love sleep, it may be our only joy at the end of the day. How do you compare yourself now to when you were a child? I think children are more prone to become addicts. I was addicted to TV and video games when I was a child but now as you have said just "lost the taste of it". I remember as a kid waiting with excitement for the weekends and even making plans for the summer vacation and even waiting for the boring sports lesson. But now I'm a bit dead inside. When I was a child, I used to watch adults as they eat and watch TV, while I was amazed by everything around me they showed no excitement at all. Those adults didn't watch porn but that's what happens with age you lose your good feelings, every thing becomes boring for you, you lose your feeling of pleasure. I am sure porn accelerates this process. I am not that old, I'm just 23 and I feel like a 50 year old zombie. I am sure if a kid got hooked on porn it would take him a very long time till he "loses the taste for it" because everything is much more exciting to him. I mean sex is one of our natural instincts it gives dopamine more than anything there in the world and porn even gives you that dopamine but MULTIPLIED. The only reason to lose the taste for porn is that you've equally lost the taste for everything else. When I read what you wrote about that pregnant fetish, my heart started racing and I even got a semi erection. You could never lose the taste for porn even if it has fucked up your life. I could resist as much as I can but if the chance comes I will enjoy it.

    We know that porn causes erectile dysfunction and many young men take viagra because of porn. But I'm studying medicine and we took that viagra do not give you erections they just augment them. Here's what's in the book: VIAGRA CANNOT PRODUCE ERECTIONS WITHOUT SEXUAL DESIRE. It's all about desire, it's all about those crazy heart beats you get when you're exited. Viagra was never made for young dudes it was made for 40+ yo men. Even at 40 yo only 5% of men have ED. That's what happens with age, you lose that spark in your heart and you become more closer to actual death. Porn kills that spark in your heart and makes you feel like a fucking zombie of a dead 60 year old man.

    If you check Gary wilson's model for addiction you'll see that the addiction pathway is incomplete. If you trace it backwards you will find it connects to the brainstem where the cardiac centers lie. Porn kills your heart before it reduces the brain's grey matter.
     
  3. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    Thanks for sharing @DoneAtLast. The first question that arises to me is whether you have a partner now. I mean, have you been rewiring to real life sex, or habe you just 'unwired' from porn? Not saying that the fetish is unhealthy or anything, but since your porn past just wondering.
     
  4. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    To me it seems that what you're describing about the spark is the desensitization of which Gary speaks.
     
  5. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

    Yes, it's the same thing but Gary describes desensitization as something that happens to the brain.
     
  6. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    Hi guys,

    I should clarify a couple things.

    When I talk about not having any taste to me anymore, I'm not talking about the flatline or the reboot deadness. I mean that I quit porn close to three years ago, and I had mostly quit about six months before that with some relapses. The best way to describe it is like quitting smoking. Some smokers, after they quit, still occasionally crave a cigarette and like the smell. Others, after a sufficient amount of time for the cravings to go away, are repulsed by the smell, and have trouble understanding why they did that for so long. I'm like the latter. I can't help but have a God's eye view of myself, and very realistic, gross sense of what it must look like to look at weird pictures and videos with my hand down my pants. Back to the smoker analogy, imagine an ex-smoker that is completely repulsed by cigarettes and couldn't light one and put it in his mouth, but at the same time has the weird jitters and cravings for a nicotine hit.

    This is also not a perpetual white knuckle thing. Most of the time I feel fine... but sometimes it hits hard. Sometimes the triggers are massive. That is what the post was about.

    Regarding my age, I'm 37. I got dial-up on the family computer around age 15, but did little more than peeking until my late teens, and didn't have my own computer or DSL until age 21. I peeked at the fetish stuff before this, but hadn't developed a preference until roughly this time. I never had internet speeds capable of streaming video until my late 20s. Cam sites are a particularly dangerous drug with that fetish because who will appear from day to day that could be good and it is obviously time sensitive, creating a sense or urgency to check, that does wonders to dopamine hits. So, I'm not in the same boat as the young men who got high speed personal devices at age 12 or 13, but I did start younger than some guys who didn't get any kind of internet until their 20s.

    I'm single. No partner. I've moved a lot and had intermittent financial issues, and I'm inclined to seek out long-term/marriage possibilities only, so no casual encounters for me. Also, you can say my fetish is unhealthy if you want. I won't be offended. As it exists, it is definitely unhealthy. Whether there is a natural version of it pre-porn that is healthy I have no idea, but if there is, it looks nothing like it does now.

    You got me thinking. Normally I say to people on here that rewiring to "real sex" is largely a trap. I say that to people mostly because they are seeking out sexual encounters that resemble their porn fantasies. They often mention escorts. I also suspect that they hope it will just neutralize their desire from porn, but it never works that way. I also think of all of the married guys/LTR guys who struggle with porn addictions despite loving their partners very much. If it was true that having a constant partner would displace porn, that sort of addict just wouldn't exist. That said, there might be something to what you're saying. I'm past the point of a white-knuckle looking for a release thing. I have things swimming in my brain that might need to be displaced. There is definitely a part of me that craves the "physical touch" love language and never gets it. I don't mean just sexually, but even just familial. I don't doubt that it is a big part of that giant ball of stuff I refer to as "loneliness", but is also isolation and a very strong FOMO, especially when it comes to having families. It likely isn't a coincidence that I post this in the time of Covid-19 when we're all even more isolated than ever. I have for sensible health reasons maintained many quarantine practices, and don't foresee things changing very soon (but, I don't want to derail into a public health/politics debate). I honestly wasn't meeting a lot of people prior to the shut down, but now it is really buried deep. So, while I would certainly encourage the discussion of a relationship's value for rewiring, it very well may be a non-option for me.

    In other words, I would still maintain that seeking quick "real sex" scenarios during reboot is a weird trick and false promise, but putting that assessment on myself, almost three years in and not seeking "quick sex" anyway, might be a mistake. Maybe, maybe not. I really don't know.

    I've definitely "unwired" in many, many ways. I'm a long, long way away from where I was in a porn addiction. I want to be crystal clear on this because I don't want anyone new to quitting to read this and think they're stuck with the heart and mind of a porn addict forever. At the peak of my addiction, white women with plain features were unattractive to me, regardless of how beautiful they were. (I'm white, if it matters at all). Just not different enough. Now, many women are beautiful to me. My "gaze" is different. It is hard to describe... for a porn addict, the eyes go immediately to whatever components of a woman they find most attractive. For someone who appreciates beauty in women, the whole person is taken in and seen as beautiful. I can find a woman absolutely gorgeous, but not be able to isolate any single "part" of her I found attractive, and that would be a puzzling thing to a porn addict. And even with this fetish it is not on my mind often at all... but it is still capable of bubbling up to the surface and really making things weird.

    Hopefully my ramblings make sense, and more than that, helpful to someone. I don't like posting when I don't have clear answers for things, but I'm also not usually the OP in stuff like this.
     
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  7. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    I also have certain sexual scenarios which send me a jolt of adrenaline like nothing else. Flashbacks of such scenarios can be very sudden and intense when I have a bit of sobriety stacked up. They are often the cause of my downfall when I'm doing well. I've never been able to quit porn long term so I don't know if they will loose they're power. But my suspicion is that they may remain for a very long time but the more sobriety I have the more sense of control and choice I would have in relationship to these sexual scenarios. And in a way it seems to be a bit what you describe with the fetish you speak of. You still have the pull occasionally but you are not completely powerless to it.

    Maybe this thread may interest you : https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/are-femdom-related-fetishes-innate.16481/

    It's a different fetish but it asks a similar idea and though I haven't read it all it seemed to have some interesting ideas in it.

    Maybe it can be of interest in the current interrogations you ask yourself !
     
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  8. Perigee

    Perigee Active Member

    Hello OP, you probably know me as Hooked on Monkey Fonics from reboot nation.

    My fetish, if you can recall my posts, is related to AGP ie crossdressing fetishism. I can definitely relate to the predicament that the triggers are completely unavoidable; simply seeing even average looking women in specific clothes/outfits can be highly triggering. I don't know if there is a real solution to it, the religious types usually assert that you need to simply avert your gaze below the neck, but that is pretty much nonsense since if you're far enough away you will see them without even looking at them directly, and in close proximinity your peripheral vision will pick it up just as well.

    So a) I don't think passively avoiding the triggers solves anything b) there probably isn't a "cure" to fetishes and c) fetishes that have common, everyday triggers are especially difficult to deal with.

    I find it incredibly annoying that our sex-positive culture promotes fetishes as if they're harmless, and offers absolutely no solution to curing them because we don't see it as a problem. Even sinister fetishes/paraphilias like pedophilia are almost never discussed in a clinical context and I have I seen any heard any discussions about finding solutions for it, which speaks volumes because if something that sinister isn't viewed in a clinical context, why would anything else be?

    All you can do is hope that over time it will diminish, and maybe after a long enough time it won't be so instrusive.
     
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  9. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    My take is that fetishes in general have something abnormal about them. I'm distinctly not talking about sexual preferences or tastes. But fetishes that trigger a very strong reaction. Interestingly, just like DoneAtLast, my fetish started emerging in my early 20s after many years of consuming porn and after years of stumbling over this specific thing. So, my personal conclusion is that the genre or the type of porn that becomes the fetish is something we were exposed to over and over again and it triggered something in us. Just like the sensitization to porn in general or certain porn visuals, we react very sensitive to this certain kind of fetish stimulus. Personally, I know for a fact that my fetish is porn induced and I'm sure, I would have never developed it, if I hadn't watched any porn in my life or if I had only gone a few meters down the rabbit hole...

    My fetish isn't bothering me a lot anymore, but I do not encounter it in real life though. I guess, I should count myself lucky. In general, I have to state that porn and real life girls/women were always seperated. I've read countless accounts of porn addicts fantasizing about women they know in porn-like scenarios or undressing them in their head and that simply never occured to me. Moreover, the longer I go without having sex, the more thoughts or thought fragments of the fetish start creeping back into my head. Most of the time though when I'm horny, I usually just have 'normal' thoughts or fantasies about my girlfriend which I am happy about. And just like you, I would be very happy if there were studies or essays out there about this specific topic. When I became aware of my developing fetish in my early twenties, I had many questions why I started liking it and it made me question myself quite a bit...

    I hope sharing my perspective helps a bit.
     
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  10. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    Perigee, I never made the connection before! Thanks for posting. I always enjoy your contributions. I think of you and another poster who has talked at length about a foot fetish as two examples of fellow fetish people who have public triggers. It really is a tricky thing.

    Thelongwayhome, I hadn't seen that thread, thanks for sharing. It is much like some others I've seen. The conclusion I've drawn over the years is that a porn induced fetish fades when the porn goes away, and whether or not it stays in any shape or form depends on whether it pre-existed. I don't know if I believe that 100% especially since my own lived experience is a bit messy, but it seems to be mostly true.

    You're right about the flashbacks, but at this stage I wouldn't call what I'm experiencing flashbacks. It has a lot of the same hallmarks, the sudden stimulation and arousal, but I don't find myself recalling old porn. So, they're flashbacks in the sense that it is old neural pathways firing up again (at least, I think they are) but not in the sense memory returning. Needless to say, I was a bit disappointed when the porn faded away, but the flashback-esque experience can still rear its ugly head.

    I think there is something to being intentional in how you look at things, especially if you find yourself making weird decisions, like cutting down certain aisles at the grocery store because you saw something stimulating in the cereal aisle... even if you haven't eaten breakfast cereal in years. I know I've done that many, many times. But, yeah. Leaving at that has the horrible effect of blaming the victim. It is just way too involuntary to think that will solve everything. Plus, it was a priest who told me about my porn addiction "there's no way you're going to just white knuckle this" and he was absolutely right.

    I couldn't agree more. and it just drips with irony. Our sex-positive culture is so moralistic in its insistence in ignoring morality that it exceeds the real moralists. We can't talk about supposedly "good" fetishes because that would be shaming or repression, and we can't talk about the bad ones because... well, I don't know why, but it is a taboo. I'm mostly disgusted by pedophilia, but I've had enough struggles of my own that I can't help but think "there but for the grace of God go I..." and I wish we understood it more. It isn't even called a fetish or even sexual preference most of the time, because they don't even want it in the same category as things they glorify. (I have a very strong personal suspicion that it is generational - that people who were abused go on to abuse and so forth, as the institutions that have it rampant seem to follow that pattern, but I have nothing to back that up, and record keeping on that sort of thing is very, very new). Besides, if I were to decide to "embrace" my fetish.... what would that mean? Besides going back to porn, how exactly would that work? Hope I find some pregnant women on Tinder? How could that possibly end up working out well? Never mind the personal psychological rabbit hole, think the damage I could do to the lives of young women all over. This isn't a game.

    This is interesting data. I've been going on the assumption that if a fetish didn't pre-exist porn usage, then it will disappear upon quitting, but I'm not sure that is a safe assumption. If we go by your assessment, then it does stick around even if it is porn induced. My original assumption was based largely on the guys going through HOCD, because they'd often report back that it disappeared after quitting. Mine was definitely porn encouraged, but it is mostly a big messy thing where it is hard to separate. There has got to be some reason why a fetish has its hooks so deep into us.

    This was on my mind today. It sounds like you're in a long term relationship with your girlfriend and for you "having sex" doesn't mean "getting laid" or "hooking up", which to me is an important distinction. I was listening to a report on the radio all about the loneliness epidemic and focusing on the more relational hormones like oxytocin and what happens when we're deprived. It reminded me a bit of Marnia Robinson's book, Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. It might be a stronger correlation that it may seem between the isolation in quarantine and these anxieties/returning fetishes. Funny thing is when I have "sexual fantasies", they are remarkably PG rated. I'll day dream about a really good hug. Or touching someone's hair, or good eye contact. Yeah, call me a wimp if you want, but that's what is happening up in my brain these days. I often think of visiting some family a couple years ago, and a 5/6 year old relative decided she'd give me a spontaneous long hug and how amazing that felt. It fired off so many pleasure/comfort circuits in my brain that my head was just swimming, but without at all being sexual. That memory sticks with me because it was so impactful, but also because it was a unique experience - a porn addict (recovering or not) doesn't expect such an incredible rush from something non-sexual.

    That leads me to a strange hypothesis. Lots of people have funny reactions to pregnant women. They'll dote over them, give them extra attention, hold doors, sometimes are a little too touchy/feely, and given how common that behavior is, it can at most only occasionally be a "fetish" (even old ladies do this). I mean, pregnant women exude hormones, and those bonding hormones in other people might be getting little spikes when a pregnant woman is around. Some weird, latent, untapped paternal instinct? Men do have deep programming for bonding and fatherhood. I saw a convincing video where Bret Weinstein talks about this at one point, making the case that we evolved that way because human children are so much harder to raise than any animal species. Popular thinking (somewhere between pop-psychology and sitcom tropes) tends towards "women are nurturers who want babies and good DNA put in them, men want to fight and inseminate", so it struck me as audacious that he'd make such a strong case like that. Maybe an attraction to pregnant women is a transformation from a desire for non-sexual bonding and connection into something erotic. Maybe some people reading this who don't have the fetish could weigh in? I'm too much inside the fishbowl to know if this makes any sense.

    Thanks for the responses, guys. It is surreal to be on this end of posting, and I really appreciate it.
     
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  11. Doper

    Doper Active Member

    My experience is that even after months or years of not looking at porn (...back when I did such things), is that the fetishes do not go away. This is not the end of the world.

    It is like anything else, the neural pathway is there forever, but the strength and pull of the pathway is entirely based on how much we walk that path. If you forge another (healthier) path and continuously walk it, then it will strengthen and you will be more likely to walk that path, and care little for the path you don't want to walk, but were addicted to.

    Another part of this is that, while I was addicted to porn as a youngin' back 15 years ago, I'd come upon something new and....weird, and every time I'd nut I'd be like "what the fuck did I just watch", and be grossed out by it, but after doing that a thousand times, after a certain point, you just embrace certain things and it doesn't bother me even the slightest bit anymore. But then other things even at this stage, even while you're watching it you just know, I'm not into this, I'm just watching it for the anxiety, which at a certain point you need in order to be aroused. But once you're a mile down the rabbit hole after many many years, you don't really escalate anymore. You find a few weirdo niches and stick to those, you can find weirder but everyone has their set-point, it's like you reach homeostasis. See I don't really see things like "if I never watched porn I'd just be a prude missionary position once a week after half a bottle of wine with my wife of 17 years type of fella".....Like, if we all had access to a harem of 100% down total freaks, I would have escalated in that scenario just as far as I have with porn, it's just I don't have that.

    When I stopped watching porn for at least a year straight, when I went back, I didn't start with some amateur softcore whatever.....It's straight to the hard stuff, exactly where I left off. That to me says the path is there ready to be walked again. In fact as I've said before elsewhere on here, I don't even think most people are even addicted to porn as a whole, I'm not. You're addicted to the dopamine blast that your specific super sensitized fetishes gives you. Not porn. I'm not even interested in half the porn on a tube site and would get more of a rush watching lots of different rap videos than your average porn or just looking at naked bodies or whatever......Anyway I'm rambling, I meant to write like 3 sentences tops, always ends up this way.

    And who cares about fetishes anyway. You like preggos so what?.....No problem, lots of guys like big tits and they have to see them all day, if you see it in real life (not on a screen) anxiety and a racing heart just means yours is still beating and you're alive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  12. -Luke-

    -Luke- Well-Known Member

    LOL. I just wanted to write about my big tits fetish and how annoying it is because triggers are everywhere. But I had to laugh when I read your post. That's a good way to look at it. Next time I see some woman on the street and get that mind rush, I'll just see it as a sign I'm still alive. It might help to keep a clear head.
     
  13. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    I suppose in one regard... yeah. It is the degree to which it affects me that will bother me. And to be honest, it only is on certain days. On my better days (most days pre-quarantine) I'd see a pregnant woman, smile, and move about my day. It didn't feel like the heavy duty trigger. I don't mind it catching my attention when it is in my view, but when an hour later it is the biggest thing on my mind... that's another matter. I suppose I never expected to have zero reaction, I just expected it to be downgraded out of "fetish" territory.

    The large breast thing... that's another interesting thing in escalation, isn't it? If you frequent enough of those porn sites where it crosses the line from preference to fetish (a weird distinction, another discussion maybe), the breasts there are comically big, and what a non-porn addicted person would consider big seems only slightly larger than average. I'd call that one of my minor/secondary/less impactful fetishes that pretty much went away. The comically large stuff seems just like that... comical. Seeing boobs that I'm attracted to in public doesn't make porn memories race for me. Yeah, it might arouse and get the heart rate back up, but it isn't the same porn rush. I think my hope was that where I saw that fade rather nicely into something normal, the other stuff hasn't, at least not as well. That gets frustrating.

    I agree, that is a very good way to look at it. I heard a variation on this a few years ago that I use often. You can just look and say "that is a beautiful woman" and move on with life. Sounds silly, but sometimes the more you try to look away the harder it gets because you get stuck in a loop. If you just acknowledge that someone is very attractive, it gets easier. In a way, that becomes HARDER the longer you quit, because women around you suddenly become much more beautiful, but that's another matter.
     
  14. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    I might just be fatiguing everyone with something that is better off in a journal, but the boards could use some action these days, so I'll give this a shot.

    I just did some grocery shopping. Crowded store, attractive pregnant woman. No shopping list and working hard to avoid the crowded aisles (social distancing) so I was jumping around the store, so I ran into her several times. Since trying really hard to put some thoughts together in my posts here, instead of either ignoring or indulging, I decided to just observe myself. I noticed two things:
    1. My reaction was fairly strong, but it wasn't a porn-like reaction. It wasn't a "dopamine hit", nor was it the sort of thing that made me want the dopamine hits. I'm not even sure it was all that sexual. This could support my "alternate pleasure hormone" theory, but it is hard to say.
    2. Some of the reactions (not all) I had were interpersonal, social. For those who are introverts, think the "drawing you out of your shell" reactions. I felt slightly more energized, more likely to talk to people... not just the one woman in question.

    Not entirely sure what to make of this. But, one conclusion I've come to over the years is that recovery from porn doesn't involve one little corner of our physiology involved with visual stimulus and orgasm. It really bleeds all over. This experience tells me that the further you go into a reboot, the more all areas of life get involved. At some point, the simpler science of porn addiction just isn't sufficient. This is weird stuff, for sure.

    (edited for clarity)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  15. Loleekins

    Loleekins Nemo repente fuit turpissimus

    Hi Doneatlast,

    Long time since I've been on this forum.

    My ex has a preg love. I can't classify it as a fetish, but what's there is definitely above and beyond the typical social reaction to pregnancy. He never did preg porn, his reactions are to women in public and mostly to memories of when I was preg with our son.

    In talking about what it is he uses words like healthy, abundance, full of life. He gets triggered with a want to have children. We're not even together anymore and he'll still get triggered and say "Let's have more kids! We make such beautiful kids!" "You're so gorgeous when you're pregnant!" It doesn't seem to be a lust for a preg woman in a sexual way (though it results in sexual thoughts) but more a desire to procreate. He comments on my hips, boobs, etc., and it can be in a reproductive way. I've got "child bearing hips" and boobs that "produce" he says. He seems very caught up in my health and my ability to produce and nourish offspring. The nourish thing was -really- triggering for him. While I was breast feeding my son, he got pretty wild with comments, avidly watching, and the like.

    Anyway, perhaps you have similar? Maybe it's a gut/instinctual response to what you are perceiving as healthy and abundant? Seems a natural animal type response that pregnancy signals health and health signals availability to procreate.

    Just my thoughts from dealing with a similar thing. Cheers. :)
     
    DoneAtLast likes this.
  16. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    Thank you for the response!

    There are a few differences between my experiences and the ones with your ex, though there are plenty of similarities. I remember from my porn days that there were often lactation/breast feeding fetishes that obviously overlapped and appeared in the same material, but those never held any appeal to me. (there were other sort of spin-off and adjacent fetishes to pregnancy fetish that didn't do anything for me like impregnation fantasy, but that's another matter. I could talk about the physical attributes that were most attractive to me if anyone would find it useful, but I'd hate to bring this too close to trigger territory). I definitely relate in that the attraction doesn't always feel erotic or like a kink... it is just an... attraction.

    What interests me is this chicken/egg thing of a desire to have children and interest in pregnancy, in your ex and myself. If you don't mind my asking, is he an enthusiastic father? Like, is being a dad something that interests him, or was it just fun for him to see what happened to your body? It is odd that sometimes thinking about my own life and a desire to have a family will trigger the "fetish"... probably more than the fetish triggers it the other way around. I've definitely been thinking a lot about how men are imprinted with a desire to procreate that goes beyond just spreading semen as far and wide into as many young women as possible. Bret Weinstein talks occasionally about how humans evolved to co-parent children because they are so labor intensive compared to other species. Maybe we're wired with something to make us stick around after getting someone pregnant instead of all the wiring just ending after conception. That is why I'm curious about your ex as a parent. Not necessarily whether he is a good father (though I obviously hope he is), but whether that innate enthusiasm is there, or at least was when your son was a baby.

    We all hear about women who get "baby fever", who want to be pregnant and have a little baby doll to carry around, and when teen pregnancy was being talked about in the media more, I remember this coming up a lot. A lot of those girls just wanted babies, plain and simple. Who knows, maybe dudes have something similar.

    It makes me wonder if I had never indulged in pregnancy porn, maybe I'd be something more like your ex... strangely enthusiastic, but not a fetishist in the strictest sense. It would certainly explain why it never faded 100%, despite my having been off porn for close to three years... and, as triggering as pregnancy content is for me, it doesn't really make me want to return to porn.
     
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  17. Loleekins

    Loleekins Nemo repente fuit turpissimus

    My ex definitely has this. He's spoken about it many times. Weirdly, I don't see it as abnormal. Maybe that's just me, but it seems to stem off something very natural and doesn't have the feeling of being a fetishy type of thing. Maybe it is and I just over-analyze it in too much of a science way? I really don't know. It appears to come from a number of things combined. His love of me being pregnant, his love of the resulting child, and his feeling that this is somehow fulfilling what a man is for.

    It is an attraction for him too. He sees pregnancy and it's attractive, this results in him having thoughts that go to the erotic, but it doesn't start there, and oddly his thoughts are always of me when it turns erotic. I chalk that up to him having a child with me.

    Very much. His son is vastly important to him and he literally goes out of his way to prioritize him - daily. He works all day, and no matter how tired he might be, he comes to put him to bed. They have a routine. Daddy cleans him, daddy helps him with his pajamas, daddy carries him upstairs to the upstairs bathroom where they brush teeth, then daddy puts him to bed and tucks him in. I stay out of this routine. Completely. It belongs to the child and his father. I give night-night kisses downstairs and that is it. This is Daddy time and I don't step in. On the weekends is Daddy time for play/learning/etc. I'll participate in that somewhat, but I still make sure I am not infringing.

    Both! He adores being a father and keeps joking with me that we should have a dozen more kids. He also was very interested in what changes took place during pregnancy. He would rub my belly looking for the baby to kick, listen to his heartbeat on the home doppler, and when I took him to my ultrasounds, he cried. I scheduled a special 3D ultrasound just for him, so he could really see the baby. It was amazing for him.

    I think so. I don't know any men that don't care about their children. It's not the same as mom, but it shouldn't be in my mind, fathers give what mothers can't, and mothers give what fathers can't. My own son I observe turning to his father for security and protection. When he wants to be picked up, it's his father he turns to. When something is difficult and needs fixing or sorting out, he turns to dad. He seems to know instinctively that dad is the one that makes things work, and mom is the one that cuddles, comforts and takes care of him. This wasn't taught to him. There's been plenty of times he's seen me fix something, or sort something out, but for some reason he makes the association stronger with dad. Maybe he recognizes size/strength differences, perhaps he's picked up on social roles, or maybe he innately understands parental roles. I really don't know. But whatever it is, he finds that dad fills some roles better, and mom others. He's very bonded with his father.

    Yes, definitely. When I was pregnant, when he was a baby, AND now. My son just turned five yrs old.

    It certainly makes sense.

    I'm not a person that believes the porn you escalate to is just by chance. Fate spins a roulette wheel and you end up with femdom. Seems like an odd happening. Why would it work that way? I believe it's more likely that what you have some type of affinity, thing in your past (maybe childhood), or personality disposition for, is what you go deep into. For you perhaps you've always liked the idea of being a father, maybe when you were a child you looked up to that role with admiration (you may or may not have memory of this). You may have strong internal drives for fatherhood, and it was twisted by porn. Makes sense in a terrible way. When you're off the deep end, you're always looking for that bigger hit, that bigger response. What gives a bigger kick than being emotionally excited (perhaps memory stimulated) AND sexually intrigued at the same time?

    Good for you. I say that with all sincerity. You've got a great streak going. Kick it for life and live your life.

    Cheers to you.
     
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  18. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    Thank you so much for the response. This small exchange has given me more information on this than anything I've ever found anywhere on the topic. I can't say enough how sorely lacking the internet is on real information on fetishes.

    Fetishes are hard to define, for sure. So, in these examples, a basic character trait becomes a fetish when it is indulged/nurtured into being through sexual stimulation, such as porn use? No doubt if your ex had started clicking on "impregnation porn" it would have become a fetish very quickly. I know nothing about him, but it sure seems fortunate that he didn't stumble on that rabbit hole. I definitely screwed it up for myself. I'm not sure this could be a universal definition because it would imply that anyone struggling with fetishes is struggling only because at some point they fed the beast. @Perigee might be able to weigh in on that. It likely isn't true for many. It is certainly true for me, and I'm sure is true for many others.

    I'm not really sure I could isolate any particular memories or experiences. I'm the youngest child and didn't witness a baby sibling coming into the world, my dad was present and okay, but not necessarily a role model... just sort of there. I suppose it is just innate. I always assumed I'd have kids, even when I was fuzzy on where the whole "how babies are made" thing. The only thing I can think of is a high school girlfriend (who did have some emotional problems) telling me at one point that she never wanted to be pregnant, and feeling very disappointed. Being a naive high schooler in love I assumed we had a chance at getting married after school, and this was distressing to me. Fast forward after we break up, and she gets into some very scary situations, has one pregnancy scare with a genuinely insane and abusive guy, and ultimately gets pregnant with a different (sane) guy right before hitting age 20. I'd often thought of the second part in relation to the porn because shock value is often discussed in relation to escalation, but it never really felt like it could explain the whole thing. I had forgotten about the first part, about her sharing not wanting to be pregnant, until just now. Maybe it means nothing, but there is definitely a part of me that has been hard to see because I turned it into something I hate. I think it could be easy to trick myself into thinking I've cracked some code, especially since I could be seeing confirmation bias with you articulating what I *think* I've been experiencing, but there is definitely something there.

    It makes me wonder how much this applies to other fetishes. I agree with your example of femdom. I've been on these boards long enough to see some very clear associations with childhood memories in others. A guy with older sisters that would wrestle him and pin him down have fantasies of women over powering him, and I've even heard of gas mask fetishes from people who's mothers would put them on them as kids as part of emergency drills. Guys who have insecurities about whether they might or might not be gay fall into the HOCD trap, and end up looking at gay porn all the time, even though they know they aren't gay. The examples are all over.

    Exactly! I think the porn rebooting world has overly fixated on the pure erotic response and the dopamine responses, and virtually ignore other aspects. Even if we didn't have any real emotional issues going in, we're likely to pick some up coming out. I spent a fair amount of time on cam sites for the last few years of my porn addiction. I was there because it was a good place for some (mostly) non-violent porn, and usually a handful of pregnant models. I was frequently struck with how many guys were there because they genuinely felt like they were developing emotional bonds with the models. They'd be the ones tipping a lot, and clearly looked forward to personalized greetings when they'd show up for a show. They could've gotten nudity many other places online, but this was a very special sort of drug for them. Models who were good at fake laughs and putting on the bubbly facade made a lot of money.

    This all reminds me of the word "perversion". The original word and usage implies that something is innately good and is then used in a way that obscures its original purpose. A glass of wine with dinner is a good use of wine, guzzling it at 9:00 a.m. before getting it in the car is a "perversion" of the good that is wine. It isn't a word used often, probably wisely so, because of its association with a more prudish approach to sexuality that may not seem open to these discussions, but there is still some wisdom there. The "good" of sexuality is (in the words of a Papal encyclical, no less) "unitive and procreative". Porn clearly is neither. An approach to sex that isn't unitive might be a drunken hook-up or employing an escort, as extreme examples. I mention this because you clearly don't want to label your ex's fascination of impregnation as a fetish, and maybe also by extension as a perversion using the aforementioned definition on the idea that sex is, by nature, procreative. Anyway, a bit of a tangent and probably more philosophy/theology than is appropriate for these boards, but it seems connected, at least in my own head. Let me know if I am mischaracterizing your ideas. I definitely am not implying religiosity, but the general ideas of "nature" definitely have some universality.

    Thanks again for participating in this thread. In originally posting I mostly just wanted to offer things to hopefully help others, but I'm definitely getting way more out of it than I could have hoped for!
     
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  19. Loleekins

    Loleekins Nemo repente fuit turpissimus

    I agree with this statement for sure. He's got that certain something innately that would have likely gone fetish had he indulged in this type of thing. I really do think that's key. Most fetishes I read about tend to follow a happening, a memory, a personality makeup, etc. Sometimes the person can't recall what's linked backwards in their lives. I mean, who can remember everything that happened at age 4? I really can't. And yet I know with a certainty important foundational items were in fact laid down in my life then.

    I read a story about this that made perfect sense to me. At around age 5, a boy was under the kitchen table when his mother had a group of friends over. The women were all sitting at the table having coffee and chatting. It was summer time. All the women were wearing sandals and had pedicures and painted toenails. He recalled their feet as being very dainty, pretty, in strappy sandals of many colors and varieties. Their toenails soft pink, red, magenta, and fuchsia. He remembered being happy and feeling carefree, listening to the women laugh as they chatted, looking at the pretty sandals and colorful toenails. He said he felt oddly at peace and somehow comforted in his place under the table listening to the lighthearted chatter above. As if being present with the chatting women, yet being in an observer/non-participator role gave him a perspective both a part of yet not a part of what the women were doing.

    He matured, became sexual as we all do via puberty, and developed a foot fetish.

    His innocent experience at age 5 had a profound effect on him. He didn't realize how profound until much later when he pieced it all together searching for the answer as to why this fetish was present. Going backwards through all the memory he could actually recall, he linked it here - his mothers friends, gathered around a kitchen table on a summer afternoon, the vibe in the room very happy, comfortable, and companionable, and his response to what he thought was pretty/colorful and his emotional state during it all.

    It might be something to consider. I can only offer you my perspective here, but a high school guy, it's not terribly common that they are thinking along these lines. Not in my experience anyway. I didn't have friends focusing on this, planning on this, or even really thinking about this enough that this type of occurrence would lead to disappointment.

    I understand what you mean. Maybe it's not necessarily something to hate though? The porn, yes, but what might be there in your being, that part of you that was present before porn twisted it, could be just an innocent yearning, a memory, something that exists in a pure way that was exploited by porn. It seems a shame to have something potentially meaningful stripped from you by porn. Perhaps I'm reacting emotionally over here, but I have a son. The idea that something pure and good, natural to him, could get twisted and taken from him, saddens and infuriates me at the same time.

    Spot on, and exactly what I am talking about!
     
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  20. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Active Member

    I like your perspective on the foot fetish anecdote. Foot fetish is often put forward as an example of an ingrained trait. I've just taken people's word for it, though the whole idea that foot and vaginal nerve endings are next door in the spinal column or something never seemed all that reasonable to me. I think it could have been easy for the person to recall the memory under the table as the first time they were "aware" or "awakened" to a foot fetish, but have been reluctant to admit that it might have been created, or at least planted in that moment. Your perspective tells me that it is still plausible that fetishes (or their root attractions) are never ingrained from birth. Those sorts of hypotheses always get into trouble because they butt heads with "sex positivity" that wants to immediately approve of diving in as deep as possible into virtually anything; suggesting something is not 100% natural also suggests that caution should be taken, and thems be fightin' words these days. (of course, something being 100% natural doesn't mean that it is 100% safe, but that is how the logic goes sometimes) Still hoping Perigee weighs in!

    What I hate is the porn, yes. I hate that I spent years taking something that should have been a natural appreciation, and doing something gross with it. It is like a tree that should have bore good fruit, but became diseased instead. Or, it is like taking a natural hunger for healthy foods and eating dirt. I'm still recovering from years of eating dirt. What I also hate is that these encounters and triggers will just make me anxious and confused. Yeah, it was potentially meaningful, but that potential is just that... just a potential. How would I live it out in a healthy way? Well, by getting on with life and being a papa instead of just collecting memories and reflections of old emotions and addictions. I can only imagine how much joy, peace and healing I'd have by having those experiences. Unfortunately for reasons ranging from corona virus to a horrible economy and many beyond that, those things just aren't options for me. What a beautiful grace it would be, but only a miracle would pull it off at this point in my life. That just makes it weirder... it just has to sit there, idle. The more it sits there, the more it is just a trigger and a fetish, and not a real, lived experience like it was/is for your ex. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, but hopefully it is explains what I mean by "hate".

    I know it isn't the point you were trying to make with that, but it sounds like that little boy has a couple of great parents.
     
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