This is a place where I will let off some steam.

Discussion in 'Ages 25-29' started by Rambler, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Hello everyone, today I decided to join this forum where I'll document my frustration with my vices. Probably it will be a lot of venting, which I'd rather than invest these frustrations into sexual fantasies or easy pleasures.
    My background​

    Just like many of you I started to get hooked on the porn very young. First experience was around 9,10 years with a titty mag I found in the forest. Then at like 11 I guessed the password for porn channel on the TV - fucking 1234, I guess my parents weren't into encryption much. I would watch that shit for hours every day. Then got my PC around when I turned 13 and the surfing on the pleasure waves started for me. Unfortunately I had slow internet with limited bandwidth and my go to pussy dealer would be those flash games. When I look back in my childhood, first 5 years of porn didn't have as negative impact on my life as when I got older, the addiction had taken the toll on my brain and I started noticing negative effects when I was around 17,18,19. I'm 25 now. When I was around 22 I realized that I have a problem with it and couldn't really stop watching porn. It has been like three years where I can't really shake the habit. But on the positive side - over these three years, despite all the relapses I have reduced amount of pornography I watch significantly. The best thing about it is - I will never be okay with living in a porn addiction.

    I have noticed I have addiction prone personality. Since I was a kid I really loved sweet stuff, sugary food was my crack. I would drink 5 cups of tea a day, each with 3 spoonfuls of sugar on top of other sweet snacks. At some point I realised the problem and reduced my sugar intake a lot. My main sugar sources now is from 70% dark chocolate and fruits with some exceptions few times a month with what I'm satisfied.

    I was drinking quite high amounts of alcohol for 13 year old. It would start with cheap, strong beer (7-9 %) which I would drink on average 4 litres a week. Also at same time I started drinking I started smoking cigarettes. I was regular drinker till I turned 19 until I had my first lsd trip which changed my perception of the world and impacted my thinking quite significantly. It turned me on to not the best path for me, but a path I have no regrets taking. Good thing about that lsd trip was that I was no longer addicted to alcohol and despite all the drinks I had since then I don't feel like I could ever be an alcoholic (which runs in my family tree). After that trip I had 6 months of sobriety from alco and weed (stoner since 16). After that period of sobriety I had marijuana addiction problems, a habit I would periodically quit. I would smoke something like 40-120 days a year since I was 16.

    Even though I have never been diagnosed ( I plan to seek psychological help this month and have a proper diagnose) I feel like I have depression. First suicidal thoughts started at 13, but it got serious when I got 19 and I had quite heavy depressive episode (sleeping 12-16 hours a day and rest of waking day spent thinking about ending it all). These episodes come 1-3 a year since then and would last from a week to months, they would be less intense than the first one but nevertheless quite difficult.

    After starting dropping out of one uni at 19 because of depression and realisation that I don't want to dedicate my life in that field I went working for 2 years abroad. Then decided going to uni in a different field. Started out good, however I was living in dorms which was notorious for partying. It was a very fun year, full of social life and new knowledge but with regular drinking (barely any weed that year). After some reflection I decided to change my vice from alco to weed in the next year of studying because I thought it will be better for my body. That was a bad decision because despite all that drinking I wasn't addicted to drinking. To some it may sound silly but at any point if I wanted I could not drink for whatever amount of time and it would require minimal willpower. With weed it is different because I get hooked on it. My smoking habits always snowball into "smoke weed every day".

    2nd year was my year of the stone. In addition I would discover that it is possible to buy drugs online, anything you want. It started a psychological addiction to lsd. My acid usage gradually increased and I have not been counting but I feel like I have eaten proximately 40-60 tabs of acid in my life. Half of those tabs have been very high dosage, so 1 tab would blow the mind of three people.

    My curiosity of drugs didn't stop here and I went on the quest of trying all the drugs ( with exception of meth, opiates and some others). Have done speed for like 5x, extasy for 10x, schrooms around 20 times, cocaine 2x, dmt 8x, 2cb once, benzos few times, Kratom 20x, ketamine 3x and maybe some else which I can't remember at this moment.

    At my 3rd year of uni I had the longest amount of sobriety and nofap streak - like 5 months sober and 2 months nofap. I was doing really good, very active socially involved in lot of volunteer work in uni, organising many events. Since my first year started heavily involve myself in uni's social life, getting more and more responsibilities and contats gradualy. At the third year I was elected the main guy of the organisation which was responsible for all student events in my faculty, some universities events, many inner events, many educational events for children and so on. Also my part faculty projects funding was going through our students union. On one had I was doing really good in some aspects- regularly training MMA, meditating, reading, swimming in freezing water regularly, nofap. But the pressure and suicidal thoughts got to me. At some point I relapsed on PMO and it went downhill. It is not easy to deal with depression.

    The beginning of 4th year I was still the leader of our union, I barely handled it, barely kept it together. The worst was on my last day of my duties ( where we have 4h long conference with long official part and fun unofficial part and its always with heavy discussions). That day was the worst day of my life when 1 hour before the beginning of the conference I got a phone call that my best friend had died from heroin overdose (i knew he had tried it, but never knew that he was secretly using it and hid it for 6 months). I kicked shit in my room in anger and injured my foot in the process. After 2h I had very strong swelling and pain in my foot and I had to chair that fucking conference for 4 hours like that. I couldn't walk for 3 days afterwards. This happened 1 year ago, last december. Fuck, this shit put me in another heavy depressive episode, and thats a reason why I dropped out, couldnt find any motivation. My porn use was very high during first 4 months of this year.

    At some point I snapped out of it, decided its best for me to start working, change environment. I always go to work abroad for summers and it does wonders for my depression for the first month, which is a great window of time to gain strength and willpower for the future. Like all these suicidal thoughts , urges to take drugs or porn takes a toll on my mind. I say no to these things in my head for 1000 times and it takes one yes to loose momentum.

    One thing I didn't mention, which is quite important in my journey is that when I was 19, I was heavy smoker. I was smoking almost a pack a day of red, long cigarettes. When I got broke I couldn't even fall asleep because I wanted to smoke, was going nuts from the cravings for a cigarette. So I made a really good decision to download Allen Carr's audiobook Easy way how to stop smoking. I listened to it for 3 or 4 hours and didn't even need to hear anymore. It changed my perception of my smoking addiction and I lost my cravings. I stopped smoking then and quit for like 7 month (first time I had not smoked for so long). I relapsed. The occuring theme in my relapses is folding under very high pressure/depression when my decisionmaking is not the brightest. I injured my knee during work, so I couldn't work anymore, had trouble walking, barely got into uni, was all the time lying down and being sad, broke, hungry, frustrated. I wanted just anything what would give me some pleasure in this grim situation. And I picked a pack of cigs.

    Best thing about it was, despite me smoking for the next 6 years, I would quit cigs every year 1-2 times and pick them up when I would fold under bad series of events, a depressive episode or high stress periods usually at the final exams. Yeah, so the best thing is that I had never been satisfied with smoking ever since. Similiar thing was when I discovered nofap movement. Just when you see it for what it is its hard going back and be okay with that addiction.

    So recently I got out of quite heavy depressive episode. It started with me finding a high paying job in construction.Employer knew knew I had no experience in construction but was okay with that. I worked there for 3 days, first day I had 1 guy who spoke minimal english and he could explain me what to do. He had to go to different site and I was left with a polish team where none of them could speak more than 10 words in english. Neither they were interested to show me what to do, so from 8 h I would do smth useful maybe 4 hours, clean everything up for like 2h and rest of the time learning by watching. Site supervisor saw me just standing there for too long time and said next day found out that they don't want me there anymore. Well I guess it had to happen. Unfortunately I relapsed in PMO once again. Then I found another job, but on the same day I injured my back. I couldnt move for the first 3 days. It basically put me in bed for 3 weeks which was depressive hell for me with constant P use. Now I have snapped out of it and its week pornfree, 3 days masturbation free.

    Despite this being a site dedicated to porn addiction most of the text here has been about drugs. The thing is pornography is the drug which I have consumed way more than any of the drugs mentioned here before. Porn has damaged my confidence my psyche with disguisting images way more that any of the drugs I have done. Despite the abuse, few of those drug uses have actually benefited me , my sanity and set me on a good path. Good thing is that I have not smoked a cigarettes and weed for 4 months. Last thing I did was Ketamine 3 months ago. Its great to be sober and I feel confident in myself that I remain sober. I went through depressive episode without the help of drugs and it will take more than that to break my will. However that porn thing it just is hard to quit, because I have this natural sex drive. I have to redirect it into getting back on my feet again, I finally feel like I can go to work again and I will find a job soon.

    Ok, I think its enough of venting. If you have read this wall of text I appreciate your time, thank you.
     
  2. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Today I saw a video with Jordan Peterson and he inspired to add an addition to this journal.

    Every time I watch porn I see it as a damage to my psyche. There are all kinds of porn out there, but in general it's nasty out there. There are videos where people have sex and it is beautiful, sensual, can be used as a tool to learn more about sex, what can it be. These videos can be used as a tool from which people can learn to be more passionate to partner. But I have barely watched any of that, my mind has been drawn to gradually more and more extreme images.

    Though not all, but most of the things I used to watch I would find disgusting after viewing, like most of us do. After busting that nut the realization comes that its nothing to be proud of watching a woman who is gobbling like a turkey get stabbed by dicks. Every time I watch it I would trick my mind, create this illusion that I from 3 to 500 woman have decided to present their naked bodies to me. And after each time Its like waking up from a dream that I can't and haven't achieved any of that. The damage to my mind comes from unrealistic expectations, of disturbing images and shame which has impacted my confidence. It drains me of not only sexual but general confidence.

    If I continue to watch pornography then there is low probability that things will change for the better for me. It will rob me of that strength to make things right for myself. Hard to remember of such day when I have PMO'd and then went to do something awesome. But way easier to remember what have I done and achieved during periods of abstinence. Its that hunger that has driven me. I view porn as a drug, despite it being digital I ingested it through my eyes and it would cause strong physical reaction in me. I have had my periods of sobriety and when I'm sober from P and other vices I'm still left with that hunger to get fucked up. I have fortunately found ways how to get high on life. It's the good old exercise, social life and doing things that need to be done. My favorite way how to get physical pleasure is to swim in freezing water. It gives euphoria just like a drug and has many noticeable health benefits. I find cycling to be able to evaporate all those built up frustrations of the day. I like how social life, interactions with people turns off that part of my brain that wants to kill itself. But If I use P all that hunger is gone to get high on social life, enjoy the exercises and to get that joy of accomplishment. If for the next 5 years I would choose to regularly PMO then I don't believe that I will finish my studies, find a partner, improve my posture, become physically stronger , be able to concentrate for long periods of time, not be okay with living the life I don't want to live. In fact I think if I will all the time PMO I will be constantly depressed guy with a weak handshake, dry conversation and tired eyes.

    It was several months ago I was a stoner and regular porn user. When I decided to quit again it felt like a veil is taken off from my eyes. I thought I was doing good, but actually I was living a very shit life. Being around people I don't want to be around with, living in a place that is under my standarts, earning less money than I could. In just one month I changed all of it. Unfortunately it turned out very bad, I lost the new job and later injured my back.But I really don't give a fuck. I can't regret a single thing. How can I regret doing something to improve my mental and financial wellbeing. Its way harder for me to regret things I have done and my most of regret are from things I haven't done.

    If I choose to be free from porn addiction in next 5 years my life will improve significantly. I don't think it will cure me of depression it's neither a cause of it, just a fuel to it. But 90% of my day will be improved. I will be with less distractions in my life. My choices will be more healthy and will lead to career which satisfies me both financially and mentally. Im a way different animal when I'm confident in myself and when I'm not. And I will be my confident self. My master wont be my addictions, but I will accept rational thinking and gut feeling as my advisors. I believe I will find a partner, in fact not only I believe I also have 0 doubts. What hold me back from relationship often is that I feel that my presence in someones life will bring them down eventually because no one really wants to hear that sad deppresing shit I have inside of me. But this time I will not have porn addiction which kills my confidence. In the next 5 years instead of trying to cure the depression with drugs I will instead go and seek proffesional help. Like that self medicating stuff has only put me not 1 but 2 steps backwards every time I do it.

    I know that I will feel pain, a lot of frustration and desperation during my journey out of the addiction swamp. But its totally worth it. I will come out of it okay. Its been a really long time for me since my last cigarette. And many times I've had the cravings to smoke one, but as soon as I got one I would be so glad that I don't have to buy them and inhale in my lungs. That relief is actually very euphoric, a true joy. On one hand its even better with PMO. Because I actually enjoy being horny. Like when I just concentrate how I feel during moments of sexual hunger, it actually empowers me. When I have low libido its even hard to flirt with a woman because I don't feel like I could satisfy her sexually, but its the opposite when I'm horny. I really have to figure out how to consciously transform this raw arousal into productiveness, because often it just all pours into fantasies. I don't mind having some amount of them, but sometimes its too much.
     
  3. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Since the morning the urges are consistent and quite strong. But fuck it, I'll endure this grind, I will enjoy this grind. I truly believe it will make me stronger mentally. I forgot when I last watched porn, approximately two weeks ago, but tracked in my calendar that I did MO exactly a week ago. I dont know if there's point to counting days. but eventually I will count months. I am absolutely against watching P, but I will keep abstaining from masturbation aswell, for sake of discipline, for the sake of self control, self mastery. Despite it being mentally tiresome to resist urges, but I decided to start loving that suffering. Thats the price Im going to pay for the long term benefits. I will invest in developing more self control now and it will pay dividends later.

    I am also really glad that I decided to write a journal. I realised that I need to release these emotions and frustrations, a place to vent. I had kept these thoughts about resisting inside all the time and they just increase the pressure. When I have too much pressure I sometimes break and find negative outlets which harm me. I had good success when I was releasing the sexual frustration physically, but forgot about the mental aspect. I have one friend to whom I mention from time to time that this addiction bothers me, but I don't think anyone in my life really wants to hear that sad stuff. Right now I don't have physical release of the negative emotions, but I am confident I will start it soon. My current excuse for not having a good routine is that I will be moving next week and I will have different schedule. But those are just excuses. Its good to write it. When I write an excuse, I read that sentence and see it for what it is.

    Today I'm going to keep going.
     
  4. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    I wanted to share one approach I just remembered. I read on reedit years ago about this heroin addict. If I remember correctly he was around 10 years clean. Heroin addictions is way harder both physically and mentally. But he overcame it by approach one day at a time. He would say to himself something along the lines: " Tomorrow I'm gonna spend like 300 $ worth of H, shoot that junk right into my veins all day tomorrow, but not today, today I'm gonna stay clean as a whistle. And he would think like this almost every day Like he would accept that he could pawn all his valuables tomorrow just to buy a stash of heroin, but today will always be a day when he will be clean. On one hand I don't want to take his approach, because the acceptance of relapse is what fucks it up for me, he still said he struggles with that addiction despite being many years clean. In some way he imprisoned himself to his thoughts by thinking about that tomorrow. Then again he basically imprisoned himself in the first place by his first opiate. But on the other hand he is clean for many years from what I think is the strongest addiction there is so there must be something good in it. I wish I could find that post, but the positive thing which can be taken to this story is that its not necessary to make it hard for yourself and its important to concentrate to the task at hand - getting through the day clean. Its way easier committing mentally at being 1 day clean than 10 years clean.

    I just realised that I haven't had a long PMO free streak for quite a long time. So for this time to be successful I have to use all the useful tips and tricks I have learned over the years of battling addiction. Often I try one approach until it fails me, but this time I have to use all the knowledge and experience I have. Much further reflection what has worked for me in the past will be necessary. Alright, whoever is reading this nonsense you gonna make it through this day!
     
  5. gdbt

    gdbt New Member

    Hey man. Enjoyed reading your thoughts. I think you have a talent of storytelling. You should use that for some creative thing. I am an addictive person and tackling with my own demons too. Keep writing mate. I will follow your journal
     
  6. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Thanks GDBT, lets show these demons what we are made of :D These past few days my urges have been quite strong. And often urges would develop into fantasies, which at this point is a waste of time. But it is also not that bad either, because there used to be a time I didn't have my fantasies, but a porn directors idea what my desires should be like. I would have some other mans fantasies instead of mine. A huge relief is also the content of fantasies, they are not so twisted in their nature as the porn I mostly watch is. If my sexual fantasies would be a porn video, then I would most likely skip that and go straight to the rough stuff.When I start to think now what kind of content have I watched throughout the years I realize that approximately a year after trying to quit porn I started to settle into milder type of content comparing to the times I didn't realize I have a problem. And when I would relapse it would be only after I would PMO many times until more extreme porn genres would arouse me again. I remember several occasions when I would decide to relapse, would type in some nasty things and it would just look bizarre and wouldn't arouse me much. I can only conclude that much progress has been made over these few years I have been trying to quit, but its only the beginning. I have so far to go. I really, really want to quit. That desire to be free from porn is very strong, very true. Thousands of hours of porn has caused me so much pain and suffering that it just doesn't make sense to continue. But for instance this week I have been very close to relapsing several times. Like I have some really bad hand coordination, if I'm horny my hand without much thought just slides down and starts charming the snake. I would react myself to doing so, I sometimes feel like I'm not even participating in that decision to touch my dick, my hands would go there automatically and my rational brain part would say no.

    Not only these kind of thoughts, but all the nasty thoughts in general doesn't feel like me. I don't feel like saying those things in my mind even though its my voice. I don't know if its better to distance myself from the responsibility of thinking fucked up shit or take the responsibility and admit that it is myself. Im am really scared to admit that, despite knowing its me that says these things. I think I should talk to a proffesional about the right approach, because I also don't want to hurt myself be thinking its me. The times that I give in to fucked up thoughts ( I have to ephasise the word I here) then it really goes dark and downhill. Or when I think some fucked up shit and think oh I am so fucked up - what good it will do to me to view myself as fucked up in the head. I think its one of the main reasons I havent had a meaningful relationships with a woman, just too often when it comes to becoming closer I just think to myself - I like you, but you don't need such a fucked up person in your life. Maybe I did right, maybe not. At this point all the what if's are useless. If I have fucked myself up, I will unfuck myself. Just reverse the damage and even use the damage to my advantage.

    Its not all that bad to suffer. When I bounce back from the hole I am now I will be much stronger person. There is no way in the world that life wont test me with even tougher challenges after I bounce back. All this stuff that I am going through must be with a meaning, which I can't know now. I have to be tested, to have my skin hardened so I could handle even more hits. I want to be strong, but that strength doesn't come from reading an article - 10 easy steps how to become strong. Its comes from that grind. What I really like about myself is that not at any point I had given up, never accepted in my brain that I will live as an addict of porn, drugs and cigarettes. I really like how I live now despite being unemployed (I will start a new job on Monday) , broke, still bit depressed ( at least its way better than it was two weeks ago when it was heavy). I know that I can use external pleasures from cigs, weed, porn, fuck it buy some speed, E, and my most common drug cravings are for Ketamine, but I don't need that external stuff. I want to feel those joys and pleasures of life which drugs simulate. Like cigarette or even amphetamines gives that dopamine in your brain. But I can get dopamine also from improving my life. Porn and extasy gives those pleasures of something similar like love, but its fake and synthetic. I want the real stuff not the fake. I will rather live with a void in my life than settle down for fake life. Like smoking weed deludes me I'm living alright, when in fact I wouldn't and devoid me of any motivation to change things. Porn deludes me that I have had sex with i don't know, maybe 20,000 or 50,000 women in all ways possible and I don't need to find a GF. Today in the right context I would ask a girl out, which I wouldn't when watching porn. I need that void, that thirst for better life to improve. If I will that void with fake shit there will be no space for the real shit.

    Today I will be free from porn.
     
  7. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Today has been very easy in terms of resisting temptations, I guess its a flatline. Monday I am going to move to a new city and during this flatline I have to set up my daily routine so I'm busy improving several areas of my life. This week I'm mostly sitting at home and playing videogames and this is basically one of the worst ways how to quit PMO. The easy way is keeping myself busy with productive and useful things. Easy way of quiting is avoiding dangerous environment of a relapse, meditation makes it way easier because I'm way more aware of my thoughts, less impulsive and after weeks of meditating I could often cut off tempting impulses right at their root. Its usually a very stressful day that breaks me, I have had many relapses after long strikes when I'm drunk, stoned or have had very little sleep that day. Out of all those things I still want to continue use alcohol. At this point I have a few beers a month, nothing to be concerned about. In case I will decide to drink more at a social event, then I must think ahead and promise myself that under no circumstances I will relapse drunk. Just go to sleep hungry.

    This sentence "Go to sleep hungry" is something that has saved me from many relapses. I was inspired by that sentence by Lance Armstrong which was said in different context in a JRE episode. Cyclists before competition cut a lot of weight to gain advantage in the race. After hearing that sentence I started to think about it that no matter how much I want to go to chill at my dealers place, no matter how horny I am and want to PMO, no matter what bad decision I want to make now, fuck it - Ill go to sleep hungry. This sentence has saved me many times. Another one that has saved me is - "thoughts come and thoughts go". When I am very horny sometimes I feel like this feeling wont go, its seems like torture to be teased by my thoughts just to deny myself pleasure, but if I would remember that thoughts come and go then resisting doesnt feel so hard anymore. Its like mentally its way more tougher to think -"damn I have 5 more km to run" rather than " oh its just 500 meters left.

    What I want to do is start exercising with calisthenics, I had back problems and I have to stretch like a motherfucker that is a number 1 priority because my back is in bad shape at the moment. Another habit I want to pick up is meditation, I use the application https://www.headspace.com , its one of those things like exercise - I know its very good and impacts my life in a very positive way but I have struggled to keep it as a consistent habit. All the hours I have put into meditation have been very useful throughout my life and I have to continue that. Only thing I'm currently satisfied with my life is my healthy eating habits, sobriety and being pornfree. At least I've got that thing going for me and I have to build up from there.

    Today I saw an scene in a film, which turned me on slightly when I saw it, but its not an image that is suppose to arouse anyone. Made me think how deep I have developed sexual tastes probably because I have been watching some strange stuff since I was a child. It fortunately hasn't impacted my life much and it doesn't bother me anyway.

    Im a fan of JRE podcasts and there was this episode with David Goggins on who is a crazy motherfucker. He has had extremely impressive physical feats like running a lot of ultra marathons , Guinness record for most chin ups, have been in war and among many other things. All was done by sheer willpower. One thing he said that stuck by me was his words that he knows how to motivate himself, that he is good at it. Now my depression has become very bearable, despite having those grey glasses on I can think of positive thoughts and to get out of this swamp I am now I have to amp up these thoughts. Now I feel mentally strong enough to not give in to the dark thoughts, with one exception yesterday. But still, I have almost broke free from prison of thoughts I was in last month. I have to learn how to motivate myself better. I have to use every single thing I can to get out of this misery I'm in. I just cannot live like this anymore, every year I go through the same cycles: 1-2 depressive episodes, followed or predecessed by drug binges and then my mind flips and I start quiting everything that holds me back, become very social, become productive, take a lot of things on my plate until dark thoughts creep in and become persistent until I break and depression starts again. When I write this it may seem like I'm some kind of victim here. Ok I might be the victim, but the again Im also the abuser, my own villain. I fuck my life up not some external circumstances. My own choices do that. I suggest myself to do stupid things. I fucked up my head and I will also heal it.

    Before writing this entry I felt like Its going to be a short one only to end up venting again. But this is one of the best choices I have made lately. Now I have noticed I feel no desire to complain about anything that bothers me in my conversations. I also used to sometimes have imaginary conversations in my head where I just talk about things that bother me. Despite having friends with whom I kinda can talk about heavier topics still no one wants hear complaining. Just when someone complains most people cannot wait when its going to stop. Everyone wants those funny, wholesome or deep interactions for obvious reasons. But when I hold it all in myself my dark thoughts not only become more frequent, but they become louder. I now vividly remember last year how I have heard myself screaming in my head some fucked up things, it was hard really to talk about those things with anyone. At that time I had plenty of physical releases with swimming, exercise and MMA, but now I realize keeping my emotions in check is just as important, when they are neglected I make dumb decisions. I will keep writing this journal and at some point I will pay a pro who will diagnose me properly. Before I thought it was a waste of money to talk with a therapist but now I realize it's necessary to pay someone to listen to that shit with what I don't want to bother or upset my friends. Also it's higher chance that a professional can give way more useful advice or suggest a good approach how to deal with mental problems.

    Today was a good day and it is good to be free from porn. Damn, like its joy runing through my toes and fingers just from the thought I am free from porn now, I don't have to watch it anymore. And in case I will have some desires today I will go to sleep hungry.
     
  8. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    So this was an easy day in terms of staying off porn. Libido is way lower than it used to be last week, but there is this inner energy, this basic confidence that I can control myself which I enjoy, it feels like wearing my awesome leather jacket. Another thing I have noticed is the look of my eyes. Last month I was chained to bed, sleeping 14h a day, eating barely anything, lying in misery, physical and emotional pain. But now I eat 3 meals, started to wake up early, sleep properly, staying clean and finaly I can look at myself in the mirror. I start to see that passion going back to my eyes, that sharp look. It's not a big achievement, no nobel prize for me, but its a start. Things like that I will pile up and I will get out of that swamp Im not.
    The downside to the low libido. is more frequent depressive thoughts. But I don't mind, I definitely can handle that and I have handled way more, it takes way more to start impact my sanity.


    Despite having less urges, I still have moments of fantasies, some of them I am okay with, some of them not. The ones I'm not okay with involves prostitutes. At this point I guess I have to mention I'm moving to Amsterdam. I have had sex with a prostitute once and despite having ok experience I know for a fact I don't want to go down that road. I don't mind being in a city where there's a lot of weed and drugs around, I'm used to that, I have said no to it so many times.I have never been in Amsterdam, still curious how that red light district looks from a tourist perspective, but yeah with that I have to be cautious. I know myself, relapses happen in the mind first, by deciding to act on the impulse, when I have accepted that I will relapse I feel like I'm taking back seat to my self control and it seems like I'm observing myself doing it. I have had relapses this summer where I flirted with wrong thoughts and accepted a relapse even a week before it happened. Because of these previous experiences I have to stay vigilant, at some point libido will rise, urges will be strong and I have to be stronger than that.

    Another day free from porn, feelsgoodman.
     
  9. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Damn, changed cities, got a new job, but I'm quite disappointed and will look for something new. nevertheless its a start and thats exactly what I need. Yesterday urges were weak and few, however today things got more hard. In addition to regular fantasies also some fantasies I have never had before start to creep in my head, with which Im not comfortable with. At some point I realized today that fantasizing is what always begins a relapse. It always starts with a fantasy which moves my hands where they shouldnt go, and those fantasies have weakened my willpower enough to break my rule to not watch porn. Im okay with MO, but I don't see any point to it really, it can only be counterproductive, but I see that it has a place in my life.
    Because I don't want to relapse I have to do something about fantasizing. Im not sure how to approach it, because its not like I dont want to think of sex ever again and to program myself think of sexual thoughts are bad. On the other hand they are quite unproductive and increase the risk of relapse. So after thinking about it for a while I decided that my new rule for fantasies will be to allow myself fantasies about real women which I know IRL, and if I spend time thinking those thoughts I better do something about them and ask a girl out, otherwise Im really wasting my time and just playing with fire.

    I met this guy yesterday and we got into very long conversation. Turns out we have mutual friends and we opened up about a lot of crazy things going into our life. We had many common interests, opinions and when he touched topic of depression I shared that I feel like I also have it, though I have not been to a shrink yet. He let out a small laugh and had this annoying smirk on his face : "Ī guess everybody has it nowadays". At that point I realised its pointless to try to legitimize I inner struggles. I dont know exact number how many times desire to die has crossed my mind but Im confident its a five figures number. I know everyone has their struggles and I dont think I have it way worse than others, but to me having bad mood, sad thougts feels way different than having those dark suicidal ones. I have had good conversations about this topic with people who have similiar problems and talking about it gave me some relief that Im not alone like that. I wont make this mistake again and next time I will choose very wisely with whom I can share my problems (online in a forum :D:D:D:D). I really need to see a therapist to just explain what it is Im having. Rest of the day I felt like an impostor and maybe I even am.

    Its been around 10 days I havent MO and some more without PMO. I have started to get myself a good thing going and why in the world I would have to fuck it up. During these past few days I have had quite a few thoughs about a relapse, but this feeling of regret is still fresh on my mind. But I have many times relapse despite knowing very well how deep Im going to regret it, how it has led me to a downward spiral into binge after binge. So this knowledge that relapsing is bad basically doesn't mean shit. Its like saying smoker that smoking is bad. Drugs are bad too m'kay. Fighting addiction with pure willpower is hard, but can save one in a time of need. I dont want to rely on my willpower because I can spend it. What if there is a day I spend most of my will to other things and then there's not enough to resist an urge to relapse. So what I will do instead of relying on my willpower will be learning how to trick myself, how to persuade myself, how to distract myself, redirect my thoughts, transform them. It doesnt have to done by brute force but by efficiency and cunningness.

    Its good to be free from porn, really is. And it doesnt matter what day of the streak it is, is it the first or the 142nd, its a day free from watching a fucked up illusion. A day free from self harm. A day of self mastery.
     
  10. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    For the past two days I have been falling in time wasting traps like reddit and youtube, thats the next thing what I have to reduce. Fortunately I havent relapsed, during the first week it was very hard to resist because I had raging boners 10 times a day. Now my hormones have got calmer and its easier. However ideas about a relapse creep into my mind around 10 times a day but it makes no sense to relapse. My depression is going worse, also I have to change my workplace because I started getting back problems again. At this moment staying clean off porn seems quite insignificant comparing to my other problems, but its very important cogwheel that helps to keep my shit together. Also in addition to relapsing thoughts about porn I have relapsing thoughts about drugs almost the same quantity. Its actually great to have them, wont lie that I kinda enjoy them. Because if I have them that means I have been clean for a while.

    And its been quite a while, tommorow night its going to be 2 weeks since I MO and more than 2 weeks without PMO. Approximately 4 months ago I did Ketamine, had a K hole experience, that was my goodbye trip to drugs and after that I stopped smoking weed, cigarettes and planned to not take any more drugs. After that I relapsed twice with weed first two weekends, I couldn't give less of a fuck about that because I forgave myself and just went forward with sobriety. Also after a months did a strong tab of acid and had a bad/amazing trip which had no point, just horrible suffering what was followed by incredible pleasure. Now I feel like I have to heal my brain. Like this abstinence what I have now is only the beggining. I really see myself after two years thinking only sober (with exception of having few beers now and then in social events with friends when I will see them again). Its unusual to think sober for me. I really prefer to think like this all the time. Its great to live a day and pay no price for living it.

    I know myself and I need to set my mind off the chain time after time. If this desire isnt satisfied in a healthy way I have a bad feeling I will find my way to get fucked up in some way. I need to get high on life, before highs of artificial pleasures find me. I have few ideas in mind, one thing I would like to do is climb a hill. If I cant find an affordable option for a mountain Ill just go on a hike. Fortunately I dont feel too bored and I have to deal with some problems, but when I will get into routine I have to make sure it doesnt lead me to a relapse.I feel like shit all day and if I would relapse I would probably feel even more shit. I don't even want to know how bad I can feel. I was thinking similar thougts about extasy today- I would feel amazing if I'd pop a pill, but the comedown- If I feel sad now then how sad I would feel the next day. I guess after time these drug thougts will go, but probably the porn relapse thougts wont go away so easy because porn is so damn accesible and triggers are everywhere.

    Time will heal me
     
  11. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Another day has almost passed. Today I had a day off and I started my day with time traps. Got on the entertaining side of internet, there is some entertaining content I consider beneficial - JRE podcast, interviews of people I admire, music, but more than 2 hours of that is just a way how to waste my time. So around 3 hours of internet I caught myself wasting time, thought of things I should rather do ( didn't do half of them :D ) and started with numer one priority. So basically I was looking for a new job most of the day. The triggers on internet will come in the most unexpected places let me tell you that. A word, phrase or a commercial will suggest me, remind me of porn.Its just this brief image in my brain. For the most times I have been laughing it off. This tactic I have been using quite a bit throughout my life, but became aware around 2 years ago when I found youtube channel of lewis qball. He is a young lad with a tourettes sindrome, and its tough to have it, but also funny in a way. And he laughs that stuff off, after a while I realised that thats a really good way how to live with fucked up stuff in your life. I sometimes feel like I have tourettes sindrom but the quiet type as I don't say those things aloud. I have regularly disturbing thoughts and suggestions in my head, most involve killing or harmingmyself often in absurd ways. Like stab yourself in the eye with pencil, cut off your fingers and eat them type of shit. These thoughts come out of nowhere and fortunately they fucked up enough to not take them seriously. Worst is when there are legit insults to myself, most of the time I reckognise them and try think about these problems rationally, but if I don't see it as a trap I go into self hatred mode and throw myself a pity party.

    Similiar thoughts are about porn. When I see any kind of thing that can remind me of it, then an image will literally shout in my mind. Today it happened quite a few times and at this point it is funny. Luckily I am not getting any raging boners, relapse thougts accompanied by an erection can be quite convicing to end a good thing going. I feel really lucky because I feel like I am on one of those long streaks I have had. None of the streaks have been longer than 2 months. My goal is to just never watch porn again. How great would be life If I wouldn't stimulate my mind with artificial pleasure. How great it would be to have a clear head after just a year of sobriety. I really would like to know how it is. Even though I am doing good and Im on the right path, I don't have that true confidence like I have for cigarettes. I know in my heart for a fact that life has to break me like it has never ever before for me to pick up a cigarette. I have to have shitiest day of my life to pick one up. And I have had so many bad moments already. Just doesn't make sense. With weed it's also got so easy. I now go to work with guys who smoke weed in the car we're driving and it doesn't bother me one bit. i have burnt cigaretes in my fingers just to see them burn and if they provoke any desire in me. Also have held a burning weed joint just to observe if I feel any different ( without inhaling of course). But to peek at porn just to see if I can resist seems like a really dumb idea, a big mistake. This type of resistance testing doesn't work like that.

    Good thing that currently urges are only mental, not much physical arousal and desire in all body. I know for sure it will come and when it will I really hope I will just go fo a walk, do 30 pushups or whatever just to escape that trap. I wish everyone success. In theory not wanking our dicks and watching people fucking would seem to be very easy, cmon just don't fucking do it. But in reality Im struggling with this addiction for years. Progress has been made and it will continue.
     
  12. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Today I have a day off and basically wasted this day watching youtube, movies, playing HOMM3. The most disappointing part was losing self control twice and clicking on 2 videos I shouldn't click. One was pod cast with a famous pornstar, watched it for few mins, fortunately it wasn't erotic, but still there is no good reason to watch it. Other one was worse, I saw reference in one vid about Amsterdam red light district, then typed it in search to see a video about it. Well fortunately it didn't lure me into relapse, it was far enough from it, but still... that isn't a good sign. Fortunately there was no harm done, but I don't want to play with that fire.

    I am glad that I didn't watch any porn, I didn't escalate it, despite my libido going up today. I am really grateful and happy of all the progress I have been made in these years despite all the steps I have taken back. I was watching a movie with my mates today and they were smoking joints all the time and I had a slight desire to puff one too. It was really slight, insignificant, very easy to resist. But damn I have been sober for so long, but I still don't feel sober. I have this brain fog, which I don't think even staying clean will fix, at least it hasnt fixed it in the past. But that doesn't matter. I have to move on and just let time do its thing. My best friend died 1 year ago and now it's so much easier emotionally, so much easier to move on after year of grief. It will be the same with drugs, a year free from vices will make it so much easier to bear. Its very likely that pain from grief will never go, just like that desire to relapse at a bad day, but it will be much easier with time, there is no other option.

    Last monday I met a ex heroin and crack addict and we had quite interesting conversation. He was clean for 5 years, now the guy wants to quit cigs, weed and alcohol. I am not sure how is it after those 5 years for him to stay clean from H and crack, but he wasn't concerned about it at all but cigarettes and alcohol bothered him quite a lot. That gives me hope that after some time I will have other problems and challenges on which I will focus and addictions will be thing of my past.

    Today is a good reminder that I have to stay alert and I can't take my sobriety for granted. If I am careless I might relapse. I don't want to obsess over not watching porn for the rest of my life, I hope it goes like with cigarettes and weed- that gradually less and less attention will be required to quit. I want to trust myself like I trust that I wont smoke cigarettes and even weed. I have been in the cig/weed smoking environment enough times and handled it very well so I don't worry about it much anymore that I will buy a gram or a pack. I hope I will learn to trust myself with not watching porn.
     
  13. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Today was very depressing, but at least I went to work and my future me will thank me for this. I everyday have fantasies, which is a very normal thing. the first week when I started this journal it was bad, I would fantasize for hours every day because I was unemployed and had the time to waste. Now that I have work at least there is much less room for that. Also my reaction time to recognize that Im fantasizing and then distracting/stopping myself has improved a bit. I want to be mindful of these thoughts and apply action.

    It was a hard day, because despite having a good sleep, good nutrition, having a great rest on the weekend I feel that depressing tiredness/sleepiness being present throughout the day, accompanied with sad and sometimes disturbing thoughts. I am not living the life I want to live. I have had periods when everything seems to be going great on paper, but that depressing tiredness is still there. Today I thought that I often blame that Im depressed, tired and cannot concentrate as the reason why I'm not doing good. It makes me feel better in some way, I feel like responsibility and blame is on external/ internal circumstances. But deep in my heart, in my fucking bones I know all the things I have to do and how I have to act ,its my fault everytime I don't do the right thing. I have chosen so many times to not tough things out, to use my grit. Instead I have chosen escaping my problems, its my fault, my responsibility. I vividly remember those times when I pussied out and chose to sit in my room thinking about suicide instead of confronting my problems. Its easy to say now that I should have done the shit I had to do. But I don't know how to prevent it when it happens again. It seems like an easy answer - Just do it, but it is not so simple. It's like a persistent dry cough which is plaguing my mind at those bad times. How the fuck can I prevent it before it happens. Now I'm in those circumstances when I feel like I'm going to move to different place and it's an excuse to not go to a shrink to talk about this shit. I need every penny I can get now and whats the use of one session (cannot afford more) with someone who I am not going to see again.

    Fuck, Im currently working a job which makes my back pain worse and I cannot quit because I need that cash. Fortunately they have been giving me lighter stuff lately, but I have a bad feeling about this week and I know the management doesn't give a fuck about people there. Good thing is that I have scouted two new places where I could work. One of them means moving to another country, which I don't mind and its a high chance I can get that job. Can't be worse than what I have now. Other one is lower paid, but its office job, which I would prefer, I shouldn't do anything physical. My physical and mental health is slipping. (*after this sentence I took 10 min break and did some streches) . No one will do shit for me, I am miner of my own happiness. Current circumstances are not perfect but I feel like I have this window of time to make things right.
     
  14. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    So its basically all december I have been free from PMO. Fuck yeah. On the other hand my days are going more and more miserable, I feel like shit. Suicidal thoughts are living in my head rent free and for the past few days they are increasing. I have them for so long I have just accepted it, that I will think like this, its like a commercial in a TV movie, insignificant nuisance. Most important thing is just to not slip, I will keep doing what I have to do and it will be worth it. During lunch I had this thought that when I will be old (if I get to live to that age) then I will look back, reflect on my past and see this mental struggle as something necessary and good, as something that built me the person I am supposed to be. I just have to keep being sober and work for my goals and in this suffering will be worth it.

    I am currently far away from my home. I will not spend this Christmas and New Year with my friends and family. Because the rate of fucked up thoughts is high just on an ordinary day, I am just curious how bad its going to be on the hollidays. Im really hoping my workplace will ask me to work also on hollidays so I could at least do smth useful during that time, but if not im bit worried. The people with whom I live, I just don't want to celebrate anything with them. Last week, while I was in my room they were drinking and one guy got beat up like 6 times, I was told he got like 300 strikes to the head, last time they beat him they were kicking him on the ground, in the end they kicked him out of the house and dropped him at some gas station. Other side of that story to which I agree to some extent is that that guy deserved to get smacked at least once for his behaviour and its his own fault that he got beat up several times, because it was him that kept coming back to that company, still misbehave and get punished. I feel safe and I'm cool with them, but I have no desire to hang out with any of them, rather spend time alone.

    But that alone time very often leads to depressing thoughts. Im bit afraid of myself, If I go to celebrate NY in Amsterdam alone, I might feel sad, just get drunk, maybe even high, spend a lot of money and be very disappointed with myself. For the last two years I went to celebrate NY with my parents, because all my NY with friends always end up getting really fucked up, piss drunk, few of those NY's I would gamble at casino and wake up with hangover and empty wallet, to avoid that lately I chose to spend some time with my parents. Will see how it goes in the end, I might have fun by myself or find a good company, who knows, I just want to stay on my track. I don't mind drinking a bit, just not those crazy drinking fests with 0,7 l of vodka in my ribs.

    Other than that, its amazing to be free from porn. Just as awesome as to be free from cigarettes. Also great is to not be high on weed everyday. These things are really fantastic.
     
    Achilles12393 likes this.
  15. Achilles12393

    Achilles12393 Member

    Aside from the suicidal thoughts, I really identify with the first paragraph of your thoughts. I think it’s amazing you’ve got nearly a month of sobriety. I don’t say that lightly. I really mean it, lol I’m almost jealous of you! A good thing to be envious of I suppose.

    As for being alone. In my university years I spent holidays alone often and found it quite peaceful. Then again, I value my solitude. This is just me I try to stay away from the drugs and booze. I’ve danced with them enough. Never in an addictive way, but I partied hard at my university years. I don’t feel the need to anymore ya know and if I do I’m conscious that I can easily slip into PMO when in an altered state.

    Anyways man, just keep going. When those thoughts of suicide arise, try to picture that ideal of yourself that you wish to achieve. Picture that old man, content with the course of his life.
     
  16. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Hey Achilles, thanks for your support, I guess I have to learn to be more content with myself and solitude like you. Thing is about my suicidal thoughts that I have decided very seriously few years ago that I will never do it no matter what, so its like having a cough now, unpleasant but I won't die from it you know :D I really wish I didnt have to start this post with a statement, that I had made a relapse.

    So I didn't post here for few days. I relapsed on Friday. I clicked on a link with a thesun.co.uk article about something I don't even remember. And at the end of the article there were those clickbait thumbnails with some bullshit gossip stuff, one of them was extremely triggering and it turned out to be banana peel on which I slipped. So it was 20 days no PMO and a like 25 or smth days with no porn. It was quite vanilla stuff, did the dirty deed quite quick, and then one time more without porn. Yesterday I didn't relapse, but today was browsing reddit and some guy in comments posted a NSFW sub on which I clicked, browsed it for a while and thats it.

    Some backstory to this relapse is that on Thursday my workplace gave us Christmas presents which included wine, champagne and a box of beer with like 24 bottles. Needless to say I love beer and usually drink it in moderation like a few bottles once in a few weeks. So after work I enjoyed 3 beers. Another fact I have to mention is that I had around 1000 ideas to go to red light district in Amsterdam, my rational brain was saying it was a very dumb idea but I was like waterboarded with these ideas, it all went alright good for few days until that Friday I relapsed on. Maybe having 2 beers in the morning helped to weaken my willpower, I had idea to go visit Amsterdam, go sightseeing and also go check Red lights and see if I can resist. TO be honest I would almost convince myself to go and hire a hooker there, but relapse on P got me first.

    Right now I have drank all the beer on these past few days, had a cheat meal, which I haven't had for almost a month. I would never buy a box of beer, that really caught me offguard. I wish I had done the deed just MO, I have no problem with that. On the positive note, at least I didn't go to red light district and Yesterday had a chat with a mate of mine, who had some financial problems and I gave him some money, basically the same amount for a girl in the red lights. Rather help out a friend in a need than add fuel to addictions.

    So now looking back on 20 day being truly sober I noticed that those days had been quite miserable. It was full of frustration and suffering. Definately wasn't easy, but its not only because of being porn free there were other factors too. What I noticed I had more confidence in daily interactions. Music which I didn't listen often during that time sounded better and gave me more pleasure. I was motivated. But also desperate, for instance now spending NY alone seems like no biggie and I feel like I will have a good time on my own, I actually love to travel alone why not celebrate alone too. Now I feel more calm, numb, definately less self control because I clicked on that NSFW sub today. Brain fog is basically as it was even before relapse, maybe slightly more , but drinking 24 bottles of beer can be a factor. I feel like I have taken a step back, I feel some regret but not too much to be honest. I had relapsed so many times there's no point in beating myself up for it, it will only make things worse. That night before relapse I was in my kitchen thinking that I can really heal my brain. My brain has received too much artificial stimulus and my pleasure receptors just need to have a rest, loose their tolerance. It was crazy how fast I came and what my reaction to watching porn was. It was instant hardcore arousal on just some dumb thumbnails. I think I have set my personal best in reaching the finish line. Those arousal levels felt like I was a kid again, I had really strong reaction to that. This morning when I checked that damn subreddit I felt way way less aroused. Didn't lead to another PMO session.

    So my conclusions are that my brain after not receiving that stimulus had lost its tolerance and had very strong reaction to those images. I was on the right track and actually still am. In the long run I have spent only a short amount of time during this past month. Trick is to not give in to chaser effect, I even browsed a drug related subreddit today ( there goes my self control). I really feel like all that suffering is worth it, intend to continue doing the right thing and stay off porn and drugs. I want to enter the next year sober and stay that way all the time.
     
  17. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    The day is almost done, its not so chill anymore as the cravings start to get back, feel them physically too. The most fucked up thought I had today was considering buying meth and spending few days at a resort I have a gift card for. Like WTF, I've never even done meth, have been offered and said no to meth few times and I have no rational desire to do it, but somehow I was taking a shower and desire to buy it was there. Its such a stupid idea its even funny. But yeah, so because of my past actions I have made life harder for myself. I don't mind, let that struggle come at me. Not the first time, not the last time. I'd rather have these dumb ideas pop in my head constantly and just not listen to them rather then indulge in a hazy pleasure ride which only weakens me. I really deserve all of what I am experiencing. Everything I am is a result of my past, my choices. Sounds bad, but it can be used for good. If I just keep grinding and do the right choices then I'll become strong both mentally and physically. It sucks that I relapsed, one of the images I saw this morning haunted me, seems quite disturbing now, but when I saw it then it was hot.

    So I'm getting back to the trench with all of you troopers, lets conquer our addictions, lets become masters of ourselves :)
     
  18. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Today was very depressing at work. Most of the day I had sad thoughts, many about ending it all, way more than usual. Although whenever I had to interact with someone or react I could always do it with humour and high energy, but inside I was dead. When work finished it was better. Its not my first day like this, not the last I'll just grind these days and do the right things. Not every day has to be out of disney movie. The thing I mentioned about meth in previous post, it's so ridiculous that I was thinking about it a lot today. I guess its because of amphetamine which is similar to it. It was around July I did a lot of mdma and amp and masturbated all day. I didn't know it was possible to do it like 10 hours straight, it was insane. That was my first time and last time ever I have watched cam models. I spent like 150 euros that night. I guess it's because meth is even stronger than speed my lustful part of brain wants to do something similar. Its crazy that I have these thoughts in my head, like when I repeat what I thought it just makes no sense, its like a recipe for a disaster, yet there are cravings for that misery. Its hard to trust myself, but I do. I just have to try better.

    One thing I did to improve my state was bought magnesium and vit D3 supplement in hopes that maybe it will improve my constant sad mood and tiredness. I will also buy zinc because I noticed two white spots on my nails, that might be calcium or zinc deficiency. I can't really control what thoughts I think, what ideas I have, but I can control my nutrition. Which despite this weekends cheatmeal is still on point.

    I have awesome colleagues who invited me for Christmas, but I felt so shit today that I had to refuse, because I don't want to kill the vibe. Ill spend it alone, will try to enjoy myself. '

    Urges are there, especially when I browse phone or PC. But I understand that it will just make matters worse. When I relapsed it was like all the other times - mind just went animalistic, all the selfcontrol took the backseat. Im used to dealing with urges and fucked up thougts, but those moments when Its very hard to think rationally worry me the most. Im hopeful right now, that I will make it. At least I will never ever stop trying.

    Merry Christmas brothers and sisters. Stay strong!
     
  19. Rambler

    Rambler New Member

    Okay, today was just like any other day. Urges, dumb ideas, good ideas, still eating good, sleeping good, thought about killin myself like 40 times, thought about things what can I do to make it better. When urges came, today I was saved by the fact that they come and go. Also almost started to have a M session in shower, but when I realised where's that going I turned on the cold water. I should definately do more cold showers, when I do that in morning or day, not the best thing for night though.
     
  20. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh Seize the day

    Great job on turning om the cold water and turning things around. A strategic move from the angel on your shoulder ;). Cold showers are a great way to reset a sequence towards intensifying acting out activities. Besides that, they are just so healthy and energizing in general. I have been doing them for a couple of weeks now, because I found out they help greatly against anxiety and nervous sweating. There is a thread on cold showers in the health section btw. Maybe time to revive it!
     

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