There's a Party in My Pants...and Nobody is Invited.

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Psychosis, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    Do you have a goal of number of days you want to go without PMO?

    I believe it really helps.

    If you don't have a goal of days it's easier to justify relapsing because you can just start over.

    I know that when I want to relapse there's a voice in my head saying "You have to make it to 100 days bro, keep going!".
     
  2. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Well, I think what I'm going to do is set a goal of 30 days, after which I will reward myself in some totally non-sexual way (not by PMO, or MO, or O). I made it two weeks last time, but since I relapsed I've just been having some difficulties. This is Day 1, by the way, yesterday was fucked up.
    I really appreciate the encouragement. I'm aware that using the forum as a means of support is like walking a tightrope, but I must say that during my first bout of abstaining the fact that I belonged to a community of people who were doing the same thing really had a positive psychological impact on me. "We're in the same boat, brother" type of thing.
    I did read the Mura essay really quickly a few weeks ago. I'm going to take a proper look at it later today, or possibly in the coming days. Somethign about it annoyed me a bit, but I remember there were some good ideas in it.

    I'd like to give a huge "Amen" to your pointing out that there are many facets of our lives that are in need of rebalance when it comes to this problem. I've been trying to look at the issue in as broad a manner as I can, occasionally narrowing in on specific aspects. For example, questions relating to "masculinity" simply must be confronted.

    It just dawned on me the other day that I wasn't aware of the non-religious (Feminist) objection to pornography until I moved to another country a few years ago. I just started talking to people who thought that porn was immoral, immature, and just somethign that they didn't use at all. It seems to me that this is a brutal indictment of American society (and others as well), showing how pornography is just viewed as being totally acceptable (with the exception of hardcore religious people).

    One that I haven't spent a whole lot of time talking about yet, but may be the most important, is the distinction between what philosophers call "appearance" and "reality", as it related to The Screen (tv, movies, computers). Most of the people living in the developed world were raised in front of The Screen, whether it be the television or the computer. There are some really great books critiquing the presence of television in society (Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death is a must-read), and there is some suggestion that it is making us, basically, idiots. I worry that this might go a hundred-fold for computers.
    I think this would be a pretty basic summary of the "cognitive therapeutic" view of the matter, dealt with by David M. Burns and others. I was raised in a pretty devout Catholic family, and I remember the horrible guilt I felt as I was starting to masturbate as a boy. We've learned from the YBOP videos, that guilt is a horrible thing to have when it comes to porn addiction--so, I'm basically with you when it comes to being careful about how we view ourselves while getting over this.

    Anyway, I think I'm rambling here. My new sig is for the Funkadelic fans!
     
  3. Paulier

    Paulier New Member

    Love the new signature! ;D

    Welcome back! Your intelligence and throughtfulness are always useful to me - thanks.
     
  4. spinergy

    spinergy New Member

    Psychosis-- regarding the web filter route, I'm avoiding it too. I've managed to crack even K9 in the past--the only way to make the filter me-proof would be to give someone else admin privileges on my 'puter and deprive myself of same, which would interfere too much with my work.

    Keep up the good work. If you feel down about having to go through this at 30, just remember that by doing it now you won't have to at 48 (like me).
     
  5. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Thanks Paulier.

    spinergy: I'm pretty sure I won't need to install a web filter, but it's good to know it's always an option. I am, however, definitely trying to reduce my time on my computer (see my thread in the "Porn Addiction" side of the forum), since this is where I got my initial urge to relapse which fucked me up so much recently. I figure, the real problem is my thinking, so if I can solve that I won't need a web filter.

    I'm certainly aware of the advantages of getting this out of the way before I'm 40, but it seems to me that there could be some factors working in favor of the guys who are a bit older--namely, that they had a span of time in their lives in which MO'ing wasn't done in front of The Computer Screen. So, I think their bodies know what they need to get back to.

    I'm just so pissed that I have to go back to square one, but I'm looking forward to getting a few weeks under my belt. Day 2 for me.
     
  6. hosea

    hosea New Member

    Day 2 is still two days ahead of "Day 0."

    Like you've told a bunch of others here, you may be resetting the clock on your day tally, but you're not resetting the clock on your progress. You've made some gains, you've done some time, and that benefit is still there.

    My short-term goal is Friday after next, which (I think) will be Day 13 for me. I can make it if you can, and then we'll set a new short-term goal.

    Regards,

    - H
     
  7. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Oh yeah, I'm definitely set on making it to Friday March 30th. That's a good idea.

    Overall, I'm pretty motivated to stick with it this time. I'm beginning to understand this thing a lot better. Obviously, reading the YBOP site is great for getting the theory behind porn addiction--but I feel that the actual experience of the relapse/slipping back into PMO brought home to me what the practice is all about (it's horrible).

    For you guys who make it a few weeks in, and then think to yourself, "I wonder what it would feel like to rub one out now that I've saved up a bit?": let me assure you that the orgasm feels nowhere near as good as when you are doing it regularly. For real. I'm sure there's a brain chemical explanation for this, but I'm not sure what it is. It just felt like something was exiting my dick, none of that pleasant-ticklish sensation known as orgasm. In fact, it wasn't an orgasm, it was something else entirely. If you're wondering what it feels like, just go take a piss and pay attention to the urine passing through your penis. That's what it felt like, nothing.

    The fact is, if your goal is to save up for a better orgasm experience, and you're having porn-induced e.d. like I am, then your real goal is to have sexual satisfaction with an actual woman. That experience utterly trumps the impoverished one of looking at pixel-representations of actual women and rubbing yourself, as it involves the other senses and a close bonding with another human being. Fuck, even a visit to a prostitute offers a better bonding then PMO!

    So, I must keep these thoughts in mind when I go through the illusory hell of the urge to PMO. Like that scene in the first Die Hard movie, where Bruce Willis walks across the broken glass barefooted (I actually forget why he did this in the movie, but I'm sure he had a good reason), I must channel my inner Bruce Willis to get to my goal of having a satisfying sexual life even if I end up with bloody feet.

    Ok, I think this analogy is getting pretty horrible. The main point of this post was "check yourself before you wreck yourself". Day three for me.
     
  8. spinergy

    spinergy New Member

    "The fact is, if your goal is to save up for a better orgasm experience, and you're having porn-induced e.d. like I am, then your real goal is to have sexual satisfaction with an actual woman. That experience utterly trumps the impoverished one of looking at pixel-representations of actual women and rubbing yourself, as it involves the other senses and a close bonding with another human being."

    Well said.

    "check yourself before you wreck yourself" --

    Yep. Eyes on the prize.
     
  9. 00Schneider

    00Schneider New Member

    Your conclusions are sooo true and important, thanks for sharing them with us.

    And stay hard..:)
     
  10. Joss is Boss

    Joss is Boss New Member

    Interesting journal – thanks for taking the time to put it all down, I’m finding reading others’ journals very helpful. I’m really interested in how this relates to other areas of personality, the general rebalancing idea, so thanks particularly for thoughts on that. I think I can feel myself changing as I progress, so good to find others are too!
     
  11. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Thanks spinergy and Junther (sorry, I don't know how to do those "umlat" things on my computer).
    I'm glad you got some benefit from my journal Joss. I learned a lot from reading other people's as well (even from members who were in situations not very similar to my own). I've been using the forum a lot, both for encouragement and for learning about this. The ultimate encouragement is that there are men just like me going through the same thing, and they are having success with it--so by definition I can have success too. It's also good to know what potential dangers lie ahead.

    Anyway, I haven't got a lot to add for the beginning of Day Four. My dick is not a shriveled mess this time around. I haven't really had an erection either. The surprisingly early arrival of spring has helped my mood greatly, and allowed me some time to exercise out of doors by running and biking. I've been pretty depressed my whole life, and I'm starting to think that my PMO habit, if not the cause, was at least contributing to it.
     
  12. Paulier

    Paulier New Member

    I strongly suspect that PMO could be a big contributor to depression. I have also been depressed my whole life - like a constant background feeling or mental wallpaper. Since stopping PMO I feel more grounded, happier and, well, just better about myself.

    There really is nothing good about PMO, is there?
     
  13. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    It's just another drug.

    It feels good but it comes with a price and there are no benefits at all.
     
  14. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Yes, I'm basically with you Paulier. Although I don't think PMO causes depression, I feel pretty sure that it severely exasperates it (kind of like having a poor diet does, or whatever). But TheUnderdog is right that it functions like a drug, in the sense that it gives you a constant short-term goal that is pretty easy to achieve whenever you want, while providing an escape from the hideousness of the world. The problem is that, like a drug, in renders you totally unfree.

    This is my fifth day now, and I'm not really having any problems yet. There was this shitty movie called "The Descent" on tv last night, in which this group of young women go exploring an underground cave, where they encounter these monsters who live down there. It's really dark, though (it's a cave), so the monsters are hidden when their lights are not on them. I feel like the urges I'm going to experience in the coming days are like that, constantly hovering around me unseen waiting to devour my will.
     
  15. spinergy

    spinergy New Member

    Paulier
    TheUnderdog
    Psychosis

    I agree with each of these posts, based on my own experience.
     
  16. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Day six.

    Here's a clip where famed linguist Noam Chomsky talks about pornography. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlRoaFTHuE . And here's another where he simply dismisses it (and popular culture in general) while eating a sandwich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fu7gDyooHw .

    WARNING: I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY TRIGGERS IN THESE VIDEOS, BUT TRIGGERS ARE DIFFERENT FOR EACH PERSON. ALSO, I DON'T SEE ANY TRIGGERS IN THE "RELATED VIDEOS" SECTION, BUT PERHAPS THE VIDEOS THAT APPEAR THERE ARE DIFFERENT FOR EACH USER. WHY AM I YELLING THIS?

    I wrote a long post on this subject in Anselm's thread (which is a good journal, by the way), but I wanted to not shit up his thread further than I already did by musing on the forces that compel some women to enter the world of pornography. Anselm made the interesting point that the female porn performer, in the United States and other advanced industrial nations, usually is someone of middle class background (I guess this isn't the case for places like Russia, or wherever). So, it's not really economic necessity that is driving young women to enter porn and hence degrade themselves for money (the way it is an economic necessity for a sweat shop worker to degrade him/herself for money). Anselm says that, given that fact, what leads them to degrade themselves isn't economic necessity, but more of the perceived desire to validate their beauty/desirability for men, which he points out is sufficiently horrible in itself.

    This is an astute observation, and I made the stronger claim in Anselm's thread that a lot of Western pseudo-femininity involves the woman seeking validation from men. Obviously, porn is just the horrible crystallization of this phenomenon, its essence you could say. But if it's true that there isn't a strict economic necessity driving young women into porn (i.e. there are still decent job prospects for middle class women in advanced industrial societies), is there another sort of compulsion at play here--one that does infringe upon the woman's responsibility? The two obvious ones would be 1.) a history of sexual abuse, and 2.) a severe addiction to drugs probably resultant from 1.).

    There's actually some pretty strong anecdotal evidence for female porn performers being addicted to drugs, some of them eventually dying from it (I believe Chris Hedges' magnificent book Empire of Illusion discusses some of the cases of this in a chapter on pornography). Obviously, drug addiction is an internal compulsion, sometimes resulting in degrading acts to support the habit. But the true horror of pornography, in my view, is the fact that so many of these women were abused as children (I think Hedges covers this in his book as well). In those cases, the internal compulsion driving them to seek male approval by means of self-degradation is not like the ordinary middle-class girl's drive to do so--it is a severe compulsion brought on my outside forces, the abuser's action.

    Obviously, human sexuality is almost as totally inscrutable as human action is in general, and for all we know there do happen to be people who earnestly enjoy being humiliated and hurt (the poet Algernon Charles Swinburne might be an example?). But I think the porn user who feels that he's enjoying porn with a good conscience, more specifically that he's watching a truly consensual act of degradation, is operating under a delusion in the majority of cases--and since, as we all know, the porn addict tends to flip from video to video, sex act to sex act, there's a good chance that at some point in a session he's watching a woman being degraded who has a history of being abused as a child. Now, I'm inclined, personally, to reject true freedom of choice as being an incoherent doctrine, but I'm rather sure that people operating under internal compulsions (an internal gun-to-the-head) are not consenting adults.

    Tl;dr: PORNOGRAPHY SUCKS!
     
  17. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    AFter completing today, I'll be back at the one week mark, and eager to start on the second one. I had my first sexually explicit dream since my relapse last night, which I take as a good sign. In this one, I actually woke up right as I was putting my johnson in the girl's vagina. I don't remember much else about the dream, but remember that image quite clearly. Gawd, I cannot wait until I get my sexual health back!

    I'm probably flatlining, technically, but my penis isn't all shriveled up like it was during my first attempt. I don't believe I've had an erection, although I did seem to get a partial one a few days ago while watching the movie "Caught" (1949) on tv. Nothing in the mornings, as during my first attempt.

    I'm continuing to work out steadily. I do some weightlifting, but since the weather is getting nicer I can get in some good running too. Cardio seems particularly beneficial, since the elation one experiences afterward makes urges nonexistent.

    The fact that guys here are starting to post some successes really makes going on easier.
     
  18. Paulier

    Paulier New Member

    What do you think causes some men to enter the world of pornography? Are we just beasts whose true nature is to degrade and abuse? I think this is one of our culture's implicit beliefs about men - and it's got to be said that there's quite a lot of evidence to back it up. I think this is what makes giving up PMO so difficult - at some level we all think that we are trying to resist something fundamental, something 'natural' about ourselves. I think that's something that YBOP disproves so successfully. But the cultural view is very powerful and still persists.
     
  19. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Well, I'll definitely have some thoughts on the subject of male porn stars tomorrow. Frankly, I'm much more concerned about women in porn, though, since they are the object of degradation, the ones being acted upon (granted, in certain types of porn, this isn't the case). I mean, you'll sometimes hear defenders of porn say that "men are objectified in porn as much as women are" (I used to think this too), but I no longer think that is a very good argument. Besides, the whole point of me thinking about this phenomenon is to get clear as to why I am enjoying anybody being treated as an object at all. Anyway, more on that in the coming days.

    As to us experiencing our PMO urges as being fundamentally natural, I couldn't agree more. It's culturally-induced, and in addition to that, there's the years we spent training ourselves in front of our screens that only exasperated this feeling. There's this author I love reading, Christopher Lasch, who wrote an amazign book on narcissism, in which he says that the narcissist experiences his own urges as something overwhelming. So, if he's correct about that, there's our narcissistic tendencies to think about as well.
     
  20. Anselm

    Anselm New Member

    Some really sharp insights in that post, Psycho. I think it can be a very motivating thing to keep in mind when confronted with the urge to view porno: you never know for sure if
    - the model in the scene isn't a drug addict forced to sell her body in order to be able to support the addiction
    - she wasn't sexually abused as a child, and as a result her inner sexual compass has gone completely haywire
    - she isn't in an abusive relationship, with a boyfriend who forces/blackmails her to do the job
    - she isn't an outright sex-slave, isn't unconsious or raped right there in front of your eyes. You never know what you can run into when browsing hundreds of videos, particularily of the amateur sort.

    The realisation that by wanking to that stuff you are a total scumbag who preys on the misfortune of others to satiate their sexual urge can be really helpful to keep us in line.
     

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