There's a Party in My Pants...and Nobody is Invited.

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Psychosis, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Well, I'm not sure if I'm looking to have children, but it is clear that masturbation is no way near an activity leading to children .

    I'm at the 2 week point as of today, but the urge to jerk off was pretty strong last night. The horrible thought of going all the way back to DAY ZERO is what kept me from doing it.

    I'm about halfway through Jensen's book on pornography. This is goign to sound a bit strange, but: even though I feel like the author has an extremely low I.Q., and the book is basically filled with cliches and trite observations...I still feel people doing their reboot would benefit from reading it. He does manage to make a few key observations amid all the tediousness, and his basic argument (that viewing porn represents the "masculine" in its worst possible form, and we should strive to stop being "men" and in favor of being human) is probably worth thinkign about. Frankly, I'm not quite sure if I feel that a "real man" is going to spend all his time with a metal box pleasuring himself.

    He does pose a very interesting paradox (his attempt to unwind it is retarded though)--if American society is becomign more civilized, why is pornography at the same time becoming more acceptable?
     
  2. High_Achiever

    High_Achiever New Member

    I don't really like it when people start to condem pornography from a moral point of view. I mean "masculinity in its worst possible form" & "we should stop striving to be real men" seriously? I think somebody here doesn't quite yet understands what it feels like to be a man, which is said to listen to.

    There's also a danger involved in looking at pornography from that angle. What if all users are going to consider themselves "evil men"? They will probably start to think that there is far more wrong with them, then there are already is.

    For me this reboot is purely for the reason of finding my true potential.
     
  3. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    RELAPSE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!

    I did, however, make a few observations.

    First, I did succeed in making it two weeks without PMO, and I suspect that it will be easier to exceed that next time. Secondly, although I'm feeling shitty about going back to scratch, from what I've read at YBOP, I shoudl have accumulated some gains by my first effort.

    Thirdly, it's clear that this is not only (for me, at least) a problem involving porn, but also the internet in general. By which I mean, I've got to drastically reduce my idle time spent on my computer, particularly in the evening after dinner. This is both the time when my urges seem greatest, and also the time in which my internet activity seems the most pointless. I must replace this with the habit of reading a physical book, or at least watching a good movie. During that first two weeks, I was experiencing better ability to concentrate, but who knows if that was a placebo?

    The actual relapse was a strange experience, seeming like I really had no will at all. I do not mean that as a cop-out. I began having sexual thoughts, and the idea (which had been recurrent) that I had probably saved up a good orgasm, and that the pleasure of release would probably be extra good this time (it wasn't).

    Since winter is starting to draw to a bit of a close here, it will be easier for me to get into a serious routine of running. I wasn't able to get any physical exercise yesterday, and I think this didn't help me in fending off the relapse.

    So, this is day zero again, and I at least now know some new things to move forward with.

    I don't know what kind of porn you were looking at, but some of the shit I was getting off on was explicitly degrading to women (nothing illegal, or S&M even). In fact, Jensen would make the case that even the more "mainstream" stuff still turns the female performer into an object of male pleasure (both for the man having sex with her, as well as for the viewer). But women are not sexual objects, they are human beings, and deserve to be treated as such.

    His critique of "masculinity", thus far in the book, is primarily with the notion that males are supposed to dominate: if you are a "real man", you will seek to dominate others (sometimes physically, but mostly by argument or accumulating money). Porn portrays the domination of women, and gives the viewer the illusion that he himself is dominating her (in reality, of course, he's just rubbing himself to the representation of someone else dominating her).

    This doesn't, in my opinion at least, make the viewer "evil"--but nevertheless it has to represent, at best, a poorly developed moral character. I went to one of the best universities in the United States: why am I behaving in such an infantile and morally dubious manner? Why is this acceptable in the culture at large?
     
  4. Gucci

    Gucci Guest

    Aww that sucks man! I feel for you :(

    For myself, I really, really agree with what you're saying about spending time on the internet in general. I'll write a longer post in my own journal about it but basically, not allowing myself to spend hours and hours in front of the screen (on an average I probably sit by the computer for an hour a day - but only when I'm "done for the day") has let me know how big a hole my computer/internetaddiction has filled for me. It's making me feel really lonely, but I try to take it for what it is: another withdrawal.

    Anyways, about your relapse. As long as you learn from what happened you're making progress! Try to really think about what made you relapse and how you're gonna stop that from happening when you're faced with it again - because you will have to deal with it.
     
  5. hosea

    hosea New Member

    I'm in the same situation with regard to idle internet time being my worst enemy. I'm taking online classes, which doesn't help, because I pretty much have to be in my trigger zone: sitting in front of the computer for hours flipping back and forth between multiple tabs. I installed a web filter, which helped for a while, but I've found that the act of disabling it has become part of my warmup routine. I think my next step is to create a complicated password and freeze it into a block of ice kept in my fridge. It sounds ridiculous, but I'm becoming more open to the ridiculous if it will break my rituals. I am a creature of habit. Good luck breaking yours.
     
  6. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate it.

    I'm trying to avoid going the web filter route, because the problem is in my head. In that two weeks, whether this was illusion or not, I really had the experience that I was reading better. I used to read hundreds of pages of a book a day, with no problem at all, but in recent years have been having serious problems concentrating enough to get into the process. I suspect a heavy porn/internet addiction was at the root of this--so I'm going to try to totally abstain from the first (again), and drastically reduce the second--only using the net for (in this order):

    1. This site, which is the center of my life.
    2. Your brain on porn (especially reboot accounts)
    3. E-mail
    4. News

    No fucking youtube, which is just tv.

    Anyway, that's all I want to say for today.
     
  7. Paulier

    Paulier New Member

    Sorry to hear that you relapsed, but as Gucci says, it's something to learn from.

    Something my therapist said to me when I first told her about my porn use was how I was objectifying myself, which I thought was really interesting and it really resonated with me. Although I objectify women when I use porn, I also reduce and objectify myself - it's a lose-lose situation.
     
  8. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Hey Paulier, I think you are right that the PMO'er objectifies himself (Jensen in his ridiculous book makes this point--poorly). The German philosopher Kant famously said that "masturbation is viler than suicide." It's a bit hard to explain what he means, but he basically meant that, just as it is wrong to treat other people as mere means to an end, it is also wrong to treat oneself as a mere means to an end (suicide's end is the elimination of pain, masturbation's the attainment of pleasure).

    As ridiculous as I find Jensen's argument (using that word in a very loose sense), I think people here could find some benefit from engaging with it in a critical manner. He condemns "masculinity" in general, but what he really means is childishness. I think the PMO'er needs to confront the childishness of his behavior, the way Jensen needs to confront his own childishness in life (and not blame it on porn or patriarchy). I don't mean that we ought to beat ourselves up about it, but acknowledge it and try to change it.

    Anyway, picked up another book on this subject, called "The Porning of America" by Carmine Sarracino and Kevin M. Scott. I haven't yet started it, but will probably include some thoughts on it in later posts as I look at it.

    This is Day 2, and I've had no real problems thus far. ssk08's latest post has filled me with the urge to go on.
     
  9. StartingAt30

    StartingAt30 New Member

    It's validating to read someone struggling with the same issues and I'm also kicking myself for sorting myself out at 30. Although, I guess the verdict is in on the detrimental effects of pornography, there's more awareness of the issues and we were kinda the lab rats on this one. Frightening to say, but I recall dial-up modems and the idea of streaming anything was science fiction.
    So it goes...
    My first attempt was 8 days and it was easy. I wasn't even that disciplined and hardly critical when I relapsed. Now that I'm actually putting in the effort, I'm really noticing difficulty even though I'm not interested in porn. It's odd, I almost find pornography unsettling and vulgar now. Giving up the MO is a bit of a mindfuck though, and I really don't like the stigma of "addiction" when it comes to getting off. I've done fasts before, but I wasn't chastising myself for being addicted to food - I was just fucking hungry and not adjusted to abstaining from food.
    Or I'm just in denial...
    I've been tempting myself all day which hasn't helped the testicular ache and I'm damn close to just getting it over with and starting fresh - but I really don't want to endure those last 4 days again.

    At any rate, I enjoyed your writing.
    All the best,
     
  10. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Thanks, man. I definitely agree with you that you have to reprogram the way you view pornography and see it for what it is. After that, it's easy to see how ridiculous is one's relation to it via masturbation.

    The problem, or, better yet, The Problem, is that you're getting no sexual release throughout this process, and that is like fasting in a sense. But I don't see a way out of this for me, other than to just do the sexual fasting since so much of my sexual energy has been trained on porn. Pure MO would be physically impossible for me I think. How fucked up is that?

    The good news, of course, is there are some people here who are succeeding in this, so I'm fairly certain we can too. It's not going to be fun--but then again, how much "fun" were we having while being alone with our computers?

    Anyway, I'm on Day Three here, and don't really have any problems to report. My dick hasn't yet started to shrivel up and die, taking any sort of sexual feeling with it, nor do I give even the slightest fuck about anything remotely sexual.
     
  11. StartingAt30

    StartingAt30 New Member

    In solidarity, I relapsed :p
    Let's do this...
     
  12. Gucci

    Gucci Guest

    In my opinion, it's your view on addiction you should focus on.

    What if addiction simply isn't what you've made it out to be?

    I've quit nailbiting (after 15 years, which definitively makes it an addiction so shut up! ;)), nicotine and weed - and mentally PMO. I think I have a pretty good idea of what addiction is and, for me, addiction isn't as gnarly and disgusting as what it often looks like when we picture it in someone else.

    Naturally I can't speak for anyone but myself but your "issue" might just be sticking to a picture of addiction you've adopted from media, family and friends - which does not adequately describe the first-hand experience of the phenomenon (well tbh it does, but in the big picture it doesn't).
     
  13. Paulier

    Paulier New Member

    Not sure I agree with Kant on this (or much else actually) - surely it's better to be alive and have a chance to better oneself? I know what you mean about Jensen: I can't bear the patriarchy shit - it's too easy a position to take and he ends up looking like a dickhead.

    Have you read David Mura's essay called 'A Male Grief'? You can view it here http://ffynnonppd.co.uk/ESW/Files/a_male_grief.pdf
    I don't think it's particularly well written, but he makes some interesting points.

    I think this site is well-named: we need to rebalance here - not only our brain chemicals, but also our views of guilt, failure, responsibility, masculinity, femininity, sex, love and pleasure.
     
  14. StartingAt30

    StartingAt30 New Member

    I've actually worked within community health in one of the most disparaging neighborhoods in North America for drug addictions, and I assure you that I'm not viewing addictions as gnarly and disgusting. Addictions are characterized by behaviors which inhibit your daily tasks - and I think we're all in agreement that compulsively masturbating to porn fits this description. In this sense, the addiction is a negative force.
    My concern is applying/confusing the notion of a negative addiction to your sex drive and placing negative associations upon your natural need for release. I shudder to think what kinda of psychological damage people could bring on themselves for making those kinds of associations.
    Granted, I understand the necessary abstinence in order to reboot, but I'm very concerned about people demonizing themselves for imbalances due to a stark change in behaviour.
    This is just my opinion, and I'm struggling to keep myself in neutral after habitually relieving myself whenever the urge presented itself - I'm just careful not to condemn myself as I see that as detrimental and a possible impediment to rewiring.

    All the best,
    30
     
  15. Paulier

    Paulier New Member

    I'm not sure about this idea of sexual 'release' being natural - I guess that's what we're all finding out about. I pretty sure the porn/dopamine loop is unnatural. It's gonna be interesting not MOing ever again
     
  16. StartingAt30

    StartingAt30 New Member

    Hmmm... Well, there are such things as wet dreams. I recall one morning where I woke up from a dream - felt a strange stirring, shuffled a bit and then went "Ohmygodohmygod, something crazy is happening" and then I soaked myself. I'm not sure what part of that release isn't natural.
    Our simian friends are pretty into masturbating but I wouldn't refer to them as addicts. Then again, maybe they are and it inhibited their progress... perhaps that's why they never invented the wheel.

    It's not my intent to be argumentative, we're all here because something went awry when we got into something we believed to be harmless. Pornography is addicting: We know this, and we're trying to break the cycle. All I'm saying is that it's far more beneficial to have the mentality that you're changing your habits, becoming more self-aware, improving yourself by seeing pornography as an empty, detrimental and misleading entity and realigning your beliefs (and hopefully your sex drive) - than having a personally damning self-image that is based on biological mutiny.
    That's my attitude, which I feel is more conducive to healing, a more effective motivating force and contributes to a better outlook.
    I'm just saying be careful about self-perceptions to ensure you don't wind up with other psychological hangups that contribute to ED.
     
  17. Psychosis

    Psychosis Guest

    Hey guys, been away from the site for a couple days. My hard drive fried, but luckily I still had a warranty on my laptop. The silver lining in this, of course, is that I was unable to look at internet porn while I was without my computer. The bad news, is that I MO'd to tv--just like I used to do when I was young.

    Frankly, since my relapse, I've been having a little bit of difficulty getting back on track here. It's hard for me to put into words, but I just feel that my motivation has become distorted. I think also not having access to this site, and the daily reading of people's journals, fucked me up a bit.

    I'm going to respond later on to some of the thoughtful posts that were left here the last couple days. I thought they were interesting, but since I'm trying to get my computer back together here I didn't properly digest them.

    I do want to recommend a book to people, especially those of you in your late teens/early-to-mid 20's (frankly, I'm 31 and benefited, but I think guys a bit younger would be blown away by some of the ideas in it)--it's called Guyland: The Perilous World Where Boys Become Men, by Michael Kimmel, a sociology prof at SUNY Stony Brook. Basically, it's a critique of the contemporary way in which boys enter manhood, the fucked up rituals and activities we engage in--what's relevant to us, specifically, is a chapter on Internet Porn. Really, the book is probably more geared toward young American/British males, but I believe the trends he identifies in the book are spreading to other societies where Americanism in general is spreading (there are chapters on video games, obsession with sports, hook up culture, drinking until you black out every weekend, etc.).
     
  18. Dilem

    Dilem New Member

    i can only encourage you to pick it up again, you're making progress however slow it might be. if you let it slide now all you did up till now will have been for nothing. do it for yourself and don't rely too much on other people's posts. it's cool that you encourage yourself by reading other people's experiances but don't go so far as depending on the others' posts to keep it up.

    i really urge you to continue the reboot. i'm at day 38 and i'm starting to see progress.
    you need to keep it up in order to get it up
     
  19. StartingAt30

    StartingAt30 New Member

    Welcome back.
    I slipped up once as well. I haven't been brave enough to abstain longer than 10 days as I fear of getting lost at sea (irrational, I know) but I'm staying positive and enjoying this process.
    On an unrelated note: Has anyone tried kegals? I'd heard mixed things and I started doing them while I was in a relationship and I think it may have spurred a form of PE. I never had a problem with holding off ejaculation but then I started having issues after seeing someone for 8 months - which should be the antithesis of performance anxiety related issues.

    Best,
     
  20. hosea

    hosea New Member

    Just sending quick regards. Welcome back, and hang in there.

    - H
     

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