The ups and downs of the Bob reboot (Found my Mojo lost my Libido)

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by bobjes, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Not much energy at the moment. Just working, going through the motions...
    My head is not stopping though, obsessing about the break up a couple of weeks ago now. It is like I am still in shock really. It was brutal, from txting 20 times a day sending pictures and sharing romantic thoughts, planning fun adventures to being shouted at the morning after a night out... Then texts explaining in excruciating detail how I creeped her out with my neediness & marching orders...
    The contrast in such a short space of time haunts me... Like being flung from heaven to hell...
    All those around me knew I was in love... They were happy for me... I don't know what to say, I feel ashamed, stupid, hurt.
    The abruptness of the change... I experienced it as quite abusive...
    And still she is hard to let go of... I think and dream about her like continually. I must have masochistic tendencies, lol.

    I have misplaced the smile I had inside last week. Despite the intensity of emotion that I was going through there was always that smile inside I could hang on to.

    Today I felt the boredom, unease, unhappiness that I used to run away from by edging over porn.

    It feels like the real battle starts now...

    The inner General is ready to strategise, the troops are ready...
    Might need to give the troops some extra equipment.

    Equipment list:
    To the Doctor tomorrow
    spending time with friends Thursday
    first yoga class over the week end
    guards for the car ordered
    took shower after work on coming home
  2. Jam

    Jam Active Member

    Good stuff, Bob - keep at it. It is good to identify the boredom and the unease, the struggle. It sounds like you have made some good plans to fill your time and life with more positive things. You are headed in the right direction. Remember that. Even if the going is slow, you are now headed where you need to be.
  3. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    Hi bobjes,

    I like how you are going through "No More Mr Nice Guy" in detail. I should try too to do all those exercises in it. Thats a very good book if you identify in yourself some nice guy qualities. I definitely admit being one myself. I think it takes a lot of guts at first even to admit that and then start doing something about it! Because you are obviously doing just that, I think you are already developing and growing every day.

    Keep up the good work! :)
  4. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Good morning :)

    Thanks for the encouragement Titan and Jam.

    Breaking Free Activity #11
    Plan a weekend trip to the mountains or beach. If possible, plan a vacation or retreat for a week or
    longer by yourself to a place where no one knows you. Visit a foreign country by yourself if at all
    possible. Use this time as an opportunity for self-observation and reflection. Keep a journal.
    Practice good self-care. Take along this book and spend time doing the Breaking Free exercises.
    When you return home, observe how you are different and how long it takes for you to begin
    returning to familiar patterns.

    I have lived by myself as a bachelor for the last 10 years. Alone and very isolated, a lot of that time was filled in by watching porn and just about every television series that has come out in the last 5 years.
    So this exercise does not apply to me that much. I am already doing the exercises.
    As a replacement I do commit myself to go away though to a new place where I meet new people, my mind is thinking of a mens weekend somewhere soon. Before the year is out. I will start researching the mens networks around.
  5. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Over halfway on the 90 days I set myself. Hmmm, the numbers don't count that much, the journey will be a lot longer than that. Yet a great way to start.

    I remember a friend talking about an experiment she did some years back being celibate for a year, no sex not even masturbation. I could not imagine it then. Now it seems that I am on the way of doing something like it. I need to somehow get control of my sex.

    I remember the moment I became aware that I had no control over my sexuality. It was some time in my teens. I used to watch Mum have her shower through the keyhole in the bathroom door. Heart racing, my brother caught me doing it, my Dad almost several times. Adrenalin, the scheming started, staying at home till Mum had her shower with me watching, wanking. Then race to school, often late. I could not stop, I was ashamed and knew that somehow the horse had bolted...

    Telling this I feel guilty towards my Mum, and ashamed on not being able to control my sexuality. I panicked then, and I feel sad for the boy then that had no-one to talk to about that, and that he got no guidance... The advice I got from my Dad was "be careful son, when your dick is hard, your brains are in your balls". And the advice was spot on.
    It has taken me till now to truly understand the message he was trying to convey. I would have liked more advice though, pith instructions can only be understood with proper explanation.

    So I spent most of my life numbing my sexuality by masturbating and watching porn. Better to mute the temptation from the inside otherwise the world was too confusing to deal with. But if you have a lot of sex PMO, serial GF'sWB, your world becomes all about the sex...

    Now halfway the 90 days the world is starting to look different. I catch myself observing attractive women, and being able to mostly turn off the sneaky leering. I am drawn to feed that insatiable need for visual stimulus and I can choose not to go there. That feels powerful.

    The flatline doesn't, lol. But it helps, strange to be so disconnected from that part of my body. But maybe that was how it aways was...

    This was a difficult one to write, lots of emotions going through me, this touches my deepest shame.

    Time for some lightness now, reading a funny book, a romantic comedy, lol, sounds tragic, yet happy to have that romantic part being alive again.
  6. Gone fishing

    Gone fishing Active Member

    As you note shame does not foster recovery. Your past mistakes are part of the human condition. You are in recovery now. There is always space for redemption.
  7. Jam

    Jam Active Member

    Congratulations on reaching the halfway point. That is amazing. A thing I am (supposed to be) working on is learning to forgive myself. I'm not there yet, but I am trying. It is good for you to be able to drag this stuff out into the light, confess it and then hopefully truly forgive yourself for it. As with the PMO - I believe there is relief and we can get there if we are willing to put in the work. I really respect you for putting in this work. Keep pushing on.
  8. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I agree with Jam. There's no judgment here and it can be healthy to let it all out. I would never tell my best friend about all that has gone on in my life, because I know he's judgmental as hell. He told me already that he has "zero" respect for someone who would cheat on their wife. This from a man who has slept in a separate room from his wife for two decades. Uh, yeah, OK. So, it's safe here and there is no shame in what you've related. Why wouldn't a young boy be interested in seeing a naked female body? Our moms are supposed to be everything to us. We suckle at their breasts, literally relying on their bodies for our sustenance. Then, as we grow into adolescence we are to break that bond and forge our own way with a woman of our choosing. "Cleave to your wife," as the bible says. Good advice, except that if we had an unhealthy mom then we tend to marry someone who is somewhat like her. "Calling Dr. Freud to the YBR, Dr. Freud to the YBR." :D

    I'm proud of what you're getting done, bro'. You're keeping it real and letting go of some emotional baggage. Rock on!
  9. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    Remember that you was just a little boy back then. We can condemn our actions but never ourselves as a person. I side with others who responded in your thread that its good to let these things out. When I admitted to my therapist my P addiction I felt at first quite uneasy, even shamed, but afterwards felt like some invisible burden had lifted from my shoulders. Revealing things like these is not slight undertaking. But I think its one way to heal, perhaps only way. Its good to know these background stuff and let them out, so they will not enslave us in some subconscious level anymore.
    Congrats of 45 days! Awesome! :)
  10. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Thanks for the feedback, Jam, Saville, Titan, Nofapado. Devnull welcome here brother.

    I feel like I am giving the adolescent me the guidance I deserve now. I can feel that the grown man that I am too is now slowly taking the reins of the horse that bolted. I can feel the strength and resolve inside me to tame the horse and I want to ride the horse, to be fully in charge of the wild animal that my sexuality is. Wow, that is going to be fun, I will feel whole and in charge...
  11. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Breaking Free Activity #12
    Do you believe it is OK for you to have needs?

    Of course I have needs I am a human being, I need to meet these needs. Whether it is food or affection. Yet deep inside me I seem to believe it is not OK to have needs. This is a profound chapter for me to read. I am made up of covert contracts especially in relationships and sex. In this sphere I use covert contracts so deeply that I was not even aware of using these contracts...
    Do you believe people want to help you meet your needs?
    Yes they do, especially when I look at my friends, they do want to help me meet my needs.
    My last girlfriend ran a mile though when she noticed my neediness. That hurt, it was kinda proof that it is not ok to have needs, that people are not here to help me meet my needs. She said I lied to her, she looked straight through my covert contract.
    I have always had the underlying belief that it is up to the woman in my life to look after my emotional well-being in return for love and adoration. Then of course I feel disempowered by that same woman... "What do you want from me" goes through my head resentfully... And all the while it is me that is working passive aggressively with a covert contract in my head.
    It is my responsibility to look after my needs! That involves other people too directly and I have to learn be up front about that.
    Do you believe this world is a place of abundance?
    For some is my first answer... not for me... WTF... Better learn to tap into the abundance :)
    Affirmation for today " this world is a place of abundance for me"
  12. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    People want to take care of some of our needs. There is a season for neediness that most people will accept. However, there is a quota to how much a normal person will take, and I think that's healthy. Because P addicts aren't healthy, we require far too much. We think that if only "she" understood me everything would be cool. Oh, she understands us, alright. She can see that we are powered down, which translates into: useless.

    You're making great strides here, mate. Keep on truckin'.
  13. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Breaking Free Activity #13
    Identify at least one covert contract between you and a significant other. What do you give? What
    do you expect in return? Share this information with the other person. Ask the person how it feels
    to respond to an unclear agenda.

    Since I have no SO in my life at the moment I am going to use the texts I got from my last GF as an answer to these questions, she clearly explained how it felt for her to respond to my unclear agenda. I had no real idea I had an unclear agenda... I basically thought that it was normal for my woman to take care of my emotional needs... Ooh boy the shock I was in for when finally someone explained how it is for them...

    I am also using this as an opportunity to clear my head a little bit around what happened a couple of weeks ago now.

    My covert contract in relating to partners goes something like this. I will adore you, love you, pleasure you, listen to you, fix things around your house, give you presents, share with you (what I give) as long as you look after my emotional needs by praising me, reassuring me, listening to me, healing me, fixing me (what i get in return)...

    I had known about her for quite some time, we have mutual friends and I remember seeing her on the beach one day some 7 years ago and could not get her out of my head, checking her fb etc... Once i saw her appear on tinder I jumped. We texted for a bit on tinder then met a couple of weeks later and had a great time together. We had a very intense, romantic, sharing courting period of 4 weeks and on our first real date we went for dinner and then went to her place, she asked if we were ready for sharing the bed or should we wait a bit. I said yes I am ready. So off we went to her bedroom, candles the full works. I had been PMO free for 4 weeks so I thought I would be fine but told her before to be 'gentle' with me. To which she reacted a bit strange in my mind, it was a turn off for her me saying that and yes it was my fear, anxiety speaking as I had faced ED before with sexually overt women... My ultimate sexual fantasy in real life scares the shit out of me... In bed things did not go as planned, there was no flow as I only got a half hard-on, went completely limp when she tried to pleasure me. She shared that it did make her feel inadequate and that the same thing happened in her previous relationship. We will just let it be for now. I panicked though, looking for excuses and talked to her about the porn addiction I was dealing with, the flatline in recovery and my history of childhood sexual abuse...
    I wanted to talk to her about how I felt, she said it was up to me to deal with that, she would support me.
    In my mind it went "but, but, but you are not keeping to the contract, you are supposed to fix me", so I started pleasing her more, getting flowers, sending pictures etc... She played along, and also started to become a little bit more distant... Which got me to be more clingy, looking for the reassurance i craved especially feeling emasculated not being able to please her in bed, my flatline got worse as we went along... The spooning (which was new for me) when sleeping together felt like heaven.
    We went out one night dancing (our last night) with a lot of her friends, and I was super clingy, trying to be cool but not feeling at ease... Back home she was distant. She did not want to talk about the ED (your stuff lets just cruise).
    My S.N.A.G. routine did not work, I felt lost really. No more cuddles and kisses, I turned over to sleep and sighed deeply, sad scared little boy coming out...
    The next morning I wanted to talk, say how sorry I was for being defective... (help me, fix me please) The apology mindset as Music Man pointed out. She shouted at me, I left after saying I loved her... then the texts started flowing explaining how she felt...

    Her Response to my unclear agenda.

    -Take it easy, it is getting complicated before it even started.
    -I tend to take distance when I feel that you want more than I am able to give. I don't want you to cling so much when it is actually cruising.
    - I feel all your unhappiness about how I didn't meet your expectations of reassuring you last night.
    - It is not my job to make you happy and vice versa.
    - We can add something beautiful to our life but trying to fix each other doesn't work.
    - there is much worse than a missed kissing night, and if i don't feel like kissing to try to force it talking about how you need it does not help.
    - I am not the answer of your issues I can just ease it if you give it a chance to just be. That was the plan. We are not doing psychological sessions here, there are more professional people that we pay to do so.
    - You did not mention any of the sex issues we were actually lying down naked after lots of kissing, you could just say your feelings beforehand, but preferred to inform me about your child sexual abuse just like that, then. The 'be gentle with me' turned everything a bit off.
    -Your way to deal with your stuff putting it on me is a movie I saw before. It was stressing me to have to put boundaries and telling you not to dump your issues on me trying to do a workshop. I am not hippie enough.
    - The suffering that you express with body language if I don't stay all over you all the time and reassure you I'm there.
    - I feel you lied to me omitting a long term porn addiction till the moment that I realise you couldn't make love to me.
    - the way you want to do it feels all wrong. It's not a relationship that can cure you.
    -I am not the right one for that job. Someone else more keen will have you as the virgin that you will one day be when you are done. It's been a beautiful time that now is evolving to friendship...

    The apology mindset worked overtime in replying to her, it made everything worse, got her angry.
    I was shocked, the abruptness of everything seeming hunky dory to her honest assessment of the situation 1 day later hurt. And I needed to hear it, in some respects one of best things that ever happened to me. It strengthened my resolve to overcome my porn addiction, I do not want this to happen again, ever. It is the day I started journaling here. And I was amazed when starting to read No more Mr Nice Guy as this reads as the perfect Mr Nice Guy scenario.

    And I still miss her very much... And much to my chagrin I have to let go of any thought of a relationship with her.

    Devnull said today "I'm single and definitely not looking for a relationship - because feel it would be unfair to the other."
    I did not even think of that... but the fog is starting to clear...

    I have a lot to learn, most of all respect for myself and the impact of my actions on my fellow humans (in deeds not in words), and a lot of forgiving to do most of all myself again...

    That was very intense, better do something light now, like look after myself ;)
  14. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    And now I need to slow down.

    In everything, I already told work I will not be as available as usual.
    Also in the journaling here, it has become my porn substitute, and that is a good thing, yet I still find myself spending a lot of time sitting in the same spot as I used to PMO.

    For NMMNG too, I set myself the task to do one exercise a day, that might be too much. It has been a lot of processing, time to work on the nuts and bolts... Not an easy task for someone that does not know anymore what he likes and what brings him satisfaction, huge change in world view... Time for some integration, lets find out what brings me pleasure and satisfaction.

    This recovery might actually take a long time...

    Now it is time to go out in the world and engage more, getting out of my comfort spot. Time to start the actual cleaning of the house...

    Cold showers keep on popping up on the threads, can anyone point me to a post explaining the cold shower routine and why. Not that I am looking forward to cold showers, but I would like another tool for my arsenal ;)
  15. HuskyEyes

    HuskyEyes New Member

    Just do them, but at first they're really terrible - first couple of times I thought I would die ! I'm now doing them twice a day and I've seen tremendous results. I'm even looking forward to them lately.

    Start a regular shower with warm water and decrease the water temperature over the course of 1 minute to as cold as you can possibly accept. The first few days/weeks I don't recommend to put cold water on your head, it's really difficult to resist that feeling... only use cold water from neck down to your feet. But do put cold water over your entire body, for 2-3 minutes, or as much as you resist. My back is the most sensitive to cold water, sometimes I feel like throwing away that damned shower head...
    Good luck !
  16. ghostrider

    ghostrider Member

    Thanks for sharing Bob.

    Your ex probably said what mine was feeling towards me. I faked it with pills and had the odd sort of success without them so prolonged the relationship. In the end she became distant and not very nice. Can't blame her. I wasn't truthful and she deserved better.

    I don't want to go there again either. Normality is worth fighting for.
  17. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Had my first cold shower yesterday, it did make me feel like a man, lol.

    It was good to take a day off from being here as I noticed this had become a substitute for watching porn.

    Woke up yesterday morning, looked in the mirror and cried uncontrolably looking myself in the eyes, soo much unhappiness for such a long time...

    Called a psychologist to get support, he sounded very rushed on the phone, "If we don't feel good about ourselves we go to bad places..." was his reply when I said I wanted support and wanted to work on my Porn addiction. Not sure, I might call a couple psychologists in the area and just let my intuition dictate if the person I talk to is someone I can work with.

    Woke up at 1 am last night, I was dictating a letter to write to the ex... Came down had a cigie, normally that would have been the time for me to rip one off watching porn but went back to bed and read till falling asleep again. Strong dreams after that, I was asked to be an extra in an arty porn movie directed by the ex-husband of my last gf, my mother and brother were waiting for me somewhere while I was caught up in the movie. The visualising playing out in my dreams now. Something inside of me is shifting.

    I am catching up with two female friends this long weekend. I kinda know they like me. I also know that I like the attention. I will have to be straight with them. Relationship or sex is a no go zone for me at the moment. I am going to monitor my 'niceness' and usual seductive behaviour when spending time with them. I will have to be transparent about where I am at. It could be a bit of a quagmire as it has often been for me in relationship with women. Yet I cannot learn sitting on my couch.

    Bring on the real world. And don't over analyse, Bob. :)
  18. Jam

    Jam Active Member

    Man, a super encouraging post. You are making some huge strides here. It is so awesome to see you walk through a scenario that usually leads to PMO and move past it in a much more productive way.

    Definitely look around for the right Psych - I don't know that we always get the perfect one, but some are good and some are bad - a bad one is a total waste of time and adds frustration.

    I've been thinking about this line of yours in relation to my journey (don't mean to hijack this post to me).
    I have been doing this as well. Not so much as a substitute, but as a filler, as something to do when I am bored so as not to fall off the wagon. I think that is alright. I needed it. I was frustrated earlier about not being as productive as I need to be, but recently was reading about the energy required to overcome negative thought patterns and addictions and I realized it was okay for that time. I needed (need) this board. I need help. But I took some time away the last couple of days and I feel the same as you - it is good to make some space free of P thoughts altogether and that has happened a bit. One thing I am trying to do in my spare time now is be more selective and intentional in my internet use (so many bad habits for me there). I'm trying that with this site, too. I'll come here as often as I need when I am struggling, but it needs to be very intentional, not just filling in time.

    re: your lady friends - aim to be genuine and authentic. That is my advice - That may mean being clear about your parameters on the front end and avoiding sex or a deep involvement - but work on being yourself, being the stronger version of yourself and maybe leave room open for some mystery of what may happen next. Be true to yourself, go without agenda or intention (no seduction) and see what happens - just my two cents.

    Glad to hear the steps you are making. It keeps me inspired.
  19. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Nice one Jam :)

    YBR is bit like my mentor/parent now. I am a no PMO child really. Sometimes I need to stay close and safe. And I am now grown up enough (4 or 5 maybe, lol) to start making sojourns in the real world knowing that I can come back to the safety of this place if I need. Like a child in playground coming and going from Mum or Dad.

    Had a great morning on the beach, oooh god what a relief to not have that uncontrolable, obsessive staring instinct taking over, the desire to fill up my visualisation memory was there and I just told my mind "nope, not going there"

    It does make me realise that this will poke its head up for a long time to come. And off course, as a habit of a lifetime is not going to change overnight or in 90 days. And that is ok.

    On the flatline, I felt a little surge of blood in my cock when I hugged my friend good bye. Only noticed it afterwards, the first signs of rewiring I guess. I am grateful to myself for being here at YBR and the work I am doing.

    Last week I spoke about how I wished I got more mentoring around sexuality when I was a young man.
    Well, I am getting my mentoring here now from all of you guys because you all bravely share your insights, struggles and strategies on dealing with the unbridled male sexuality and its addictive properties. Thank you.
    And to the men that just read, thank you too for being here too, that helps in my recovery too.
  20. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Thanks Devnull,

    Loving the real man discussion.

    The real man is here inside of me, pretty close to the surface, he is yearning to come out to show himself to the world in full technicolor. Reading and the internet are tools along the way, yet only in "doing", taking action will he come out. A real Man is a doer not a thinker (although he thinks too but he thinks and processes while doing stuff).

    I remember meeting a real man some years ago during a workshop. He was a Colonel in the army, he felt supportive to pretty much everyone just by his mere presence. The hippie men (who funny enough run men's workshops) around at times attacked him for being part of the war machine. He listened to these men's arguments with compassion and replied with conviction and almost wroth in his voice, loud and clear. The men's workshop hippies looked like boys and retreated without fail, wimpy voices and tails between legs. He could agree to disagree but was not swayed 1 millimetre. Then when processing was going on during the workshops he was supportive of these boys that attacked him around the fire the night before. He cried real tears when people shared pain and you could see he was totally comfortable the whole time.

    I am telling this as I need to be reminded of him and his amazing example of being a man. This is where I will go.

    Day 3 of the cold showers and they really help bringing the real man to the surface. Going to have to tell my neighbours that I am not orgasming but having a shower. I am just letting my grunting, roaring rip when stepping in the cold shower, deep grunts coming from deep in my belly shaking my whole being for the better.

    I have a woman I barely know coming to stay for a couple of days. She shared her isolation with me this week. I told her to get her ass over here and spend some time hanging out, going to the beach etc. I am not sure I can share my porn addiction with her. Yet I believe we can share as human beings, fun and probably with some depth as well. I will put very clear boundaries from the moment she arrives, no sex, no relationship. But stepping out of my isolation too. It feels a bit like stepping into the fire and that is the only place I can really learn, in the real world, the internet and therapy can only get me that far. The doing is where consolidation happens.

    Fuck I hate this Porn addiction. I almost wish I was an alcoholic as there would be a lot less judgment and more support when shared with the rest of the world. The same support is required when recovering from PMO...

    Been getting strong visuals of pussies, nipples when I close my eyes. The brain trying to get its dopamine fix. Just letting it go, just another thought really, don't get caught up in it, allow it to be without getting involved and letting it go. Funny enough the meditation teachings I went to trying to be a nice 'spiritual' guy in my earlier years are proving to be very useful now.

    Still crying lots. Letting the emotions flow. And it does not as painful, desperate as a week ago. It feels like a lifetime worth of tears being shed all at once.

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