The ups and downs of the Bob reboot (Found my Mojo lost my Libido)

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by bobjes, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Thank you for your perspectives. It alway helps. It all does take its time. And that is good. And I like active recovery.

    I just noticed how liberating it is to date and not to worry about getting laid or not. How liberating it is to get to know a woman first before even thinking about sex with her. How liberating it is to look a woman in the eye without getting some porn scenario going through my head. It feels mature, it feels healthy.

    And if in the dating as by force of nature our bodies melt together and we end up kissing and moving towards making love then things will take care of themselves. And if I do not have that rock hard erection in this scenario, succumb to the fear of ED and she did not have the patience to deal with it, then she is not the right person for me to hang out with.

    And of course that would hurt. But if there is one thing I learned in this journey is that I can live with pain. I can live with what I used to consider intolerable pain quite gracefully. Feeling hurt is part of this earthly existence. And I now much rather look the pain in the eye, feel compassion for the part of myself that is hurt, nurture that part of me and go on living...

    I can look after myself.

    And you can too!
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
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  2. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    So important! You are so right!
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  3. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Day 300

    When I checked my PMO tracker this morning I was kinda surprised. 300 days of no Porn, no edging or fantasising the world away. 300 days of not engaging in what I could not stop myself from doing.

    Well done Bobjes, well done. The little pat on the back is becoming a big hug to myself, a deep solid belly smile at myself, actual self confidence appearing.

    These are the new pathways that are appearing in my brain, slowly replacing the old superhighways of self loathing, numbing, hiding and self destruction.

    Most of my healing takes place dancing. Freely moving my body to music in a room full of strangers. Experimenting with movement, feeling my body, listening to my body, switching off the chatterbox in my head. I found what supports me immensely, deeply. Learning to dance through life, dancing with life and whatever it brings, dancing anger, dancing joy, the slow movement of depression. What is still moving in me when I am stuck? Experimenting with new patterns of physical behaviour...

    I started dancing with women during the dance classes. 50 years old and I never actually danced with a woman. Without words sharing movement, spending time in the same space, connected. I learn a lot from that. It feels uncomfortable dancing with women, scary, I freeze. The more attractive the woman, the more I freeze. This one lady started seeking contact with me on the dance floor about a month ago, looking me in the eye inviting me to dance with her. So I relented and stepped in that uncomfortable space, the body moving in staccato then moving slowly to the odd moment of flow. I feel comfortable dancing with her now. I am not attracted to her.
    I had a little dance with a woman I am really attracted to this week. I have no staying power when the attraction is there, I don't know what to do with the excitement I feel in that moment.
    One woman at the dance class this week was like super attractive, I had difficulty to refrain myself from ogling her, fantasising about her. I avoided her. Way too much...
    So I avoid what I am most attracted to in life? I sneakily glance sideways and get lost fantasising? I avoid because I am scared? Scared about what? Rejection? Or scared that something good might happen in my life?
    Time to engage! Slowly push my boundaries and engage more with what I am attracted to!
    At the end of the dance when we all sat down and gathered in a circle, attractive and super attractive both came and sat next to me, they leaned on me, stroked my back, held my hands. The warmth, hhhmmmmm. I am a lucky man. (Confession: I did position myself strategically at the end of the dance ;))
    I could look not super attractive in the eye for more than 3 seconds, overwhelmed by her beauty. I froze, stupid little smile on my face, avoiding eye contact, mute.
    Soooo funny, 50 going onto 13 years of age, :rolleyes:.

    But giving myself the chance to grow up again? Priceless.

    Even a couple of months ago I would have given myself a hard time about this. I would ruminate on the situation with thoughts like "you stupid man, you should have done this or that, or I should have said this or that."
    Now I am much more forgiving, accepting. Now I do not dwell too much. I just recognise how I do things and resolve to change. Slowly, for slow is good.
    My rhythm, not the rhythm I think I should have.

    This week I also noticed how I avoid dancing around other men. Their brash energy, aggressive almost at times, the grunting and the smell of sweat. Something in me condems this energy. So when the music was pumping I went and danced with 5 blokes. Stepped into it, jumped, grunted, let it all out, stepped into that male me that I tend to condemn and let it all out. No eye contact but 5 guys jumping, stomping to the same rhythm, the same space, sharing the roar. And it felt great. No More Mr Nice Guy...

    All that in 2 hours of dance, wooooooow.

    Are things perfect in my life after 300 days? Nope, far from, but the momentum has definately swung...
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
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  4. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Wow, loved your description of the dancing. You're right, we must embrace both the female AND male energy.
  5. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Wow! It's so great to read about your continueing journey and growth, Bobjes!

    Well done on the not beating yourself, on the acceptance and especially for challenging your-self in the bloke-sphere. :)

    The Journey Continues!
  6. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    That is amazing! So proud of the steps you're taking in your life, Bobjes, THIS is what we all need to do to recover from addiction!
    Plunge forth into the unknown...nothing will zap your dopamine receptors like that.

    So, I was one of the cool kids in grade school/high school/college, went to the dances, played sports, had girlfriends, had a lot of friends....but when PMO addiction took over my life in my late 20's (I had already experienced a few major depression in my early 20's -- related in some way to MO I'm sure) I became a very different person.

    At times I was the guy who couldn't look a beautiful women in the eye very long...I had the early life experiences to be a very confident man, it was virtually given to me on a silver platter (with no effort involved, just came naturally)...and then those 'powers' were slowly taken away.

    The most horrible part was that I had no idea what was wrong with me, there are years of my life where everything just blends together into mush, socially I was probably 20% of my potential, trapped inside a personality that was not my own.

    This is where the super powers idea comes from, in a lot of ways I was like Superman with kryptonite in his pocket all day. A hidden, unknown heavy weight.

    Either way, it can be a horrible feeling to be diffident...every day my confidence is growing and so is yours, is as exciting as we care to make it. :)
    Billy B. likes this.
  7. fcjl8

    fcjl8 The only path for me

    Congrats on 300 days clean sir! Really courageous and great work. Wonderful healing is eveident in your journal posts.
    Stay well and peace.
  8. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Thanks for your feedback! :)

    I feel sad today.

    So here I am, putting myself out there in the world again. I have had lots of dates over the last couple of months. They all went nowhere...
    Because I am shit scared, confused about my own sexual energy. I switch it off as I am unsure about myself. Unsure that I will be able to sustain or even have an erection faced with a new woman. Women feel my insecurity and no matter how fun our interaction has been up to that moment, off they go. Or I get relegated to the friend zone...
    I have no idea how to go about this dating ritual. I am at a loss.

    It is great to hear all the talk about how good PIV is for rewiring...
    But how the fuck do you get there as a single man with this PMO, PIED background?
    Experience has taught me that there is nothing more off putting to a woman than a man that expresses that he might not be able to be there for her sexually or that it might take patience... Rolling eyes... Damaged goods...
    Tell my PMO story to a stranger? Warn her that I have ED? That blue pills do not necessarily work? And that I do not want to take them anyway? Say nothing then completely choke when in bed with someone for the first time?
    Nothing more off putting than insecurity.

    So I spare myself the humiliation and self sabotage. When the dating gets to a point of anything sexual arising I seem to just bolt.
    Yep left the party without saying good byes. (Then get the picture of the bikini body the next day with the comment "What Happened?" as if to say this is what you missed out on!)
    Or after the movies when the lingering silence is there, the silence that calls for the question "your place or mine?" then I abruptly turn and say "talk soon" and walk off into the night...
    Or when a woman comes dancing closer and closer trying to catch my eye, I just pretend she does not exist, rude bastard I am.
    Or when M. spilt water on her groin yesterday and quipped that "she is wet in the right place now" I just ignored it and started talking about Donald Trump and the state of US politics.
    Four real life examples of the last 2 weeks.

    It makes me feel sad today to feel the sexual insecurity in this 50 year old man. I feel lonely and I long to be touched, I long to touch, I long to share and play with someone I like. It would be very rewarding and rewiring...

    How can I somehow give this to myself? How can I give myself some notion of sexual confidence?
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  9. ananoman

    ananoman Active Member

    looks like there is only one thing holding you back now.....FEAR. Fear of failure, fear of disappointing, fear of not living up to their expectations. I was there once upon a time and from time to time I still replay those moments that pop up from the deep recesses of my memories.

    You need to look fear in the eye and kick it out of your way. You can beat this, you will beat this. Just do it.

    Remember- the balls you are guaranteed to miss are the ones that you don't even swing at.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  10. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Oh, buddy, I feel for ya.

    I have the same problem and I don't even have the PIED as an excuse! I'm just scared somehow, or I don't have the confidence to put the energy out there. I fear coming on too strong (as I was, once upon a time, so desperate underneath that they could sense that and would back off immediately) so that I end up playing it way too cool... what a drag! Also, I haven't even got back in touch with any sense that I may be even desirable except for just occasionally I can feel it. I suspect as I continue to get into better shape physically, financially and psychologically, as I engage my passions and other aspects of my life it will come to me again.

    I send you big hugs, mate!

    I wonder... if a middle ground between baring your 'damage' completely (putting them off) and pretending it doesn't exist (putting you in a awkward spot if your gear should fail you in the moment) might be just taking things slow? I suspect that many women might appreciate that approach and perhaps a few dates with some cuddles (no sex) might help you to feel safer in a woman's company, increasing your confidence when it finally gets to the bedroom?

    Just an idea.

    Personally, I'm proud of you for going on some dates: I haven't even been able to get over that hump, yet!

    I do appreciate Anonman's advice. I think we need to dig deep and draw on the beast with-in. Like when you're in the cold shower, mate, roaring like a demon: that's the shit! Easier said than done, perhaps, but I'm going to try to keep that in mind and see if can't step up to the challenge, more.

    In regards to your PIED, is it still really that likely to be an issue? I mean, you had a lovely time with your old friend when she visited... was it an issue then?

    Also, also, we're all gettin' older. If it was to happen with someone who likes you (I know, it's mortifying for the bloke, but) might she not think too much of it? Without giving her all the details I wonder if you could simply apologise (give here a couple good O's with yr other appendages!) and explains that it happens, occasionally ("I've had a few drinks", I'm on medication, whatever)... I dunno. I'm just trying to help! From what I hear it's common enough that it's almost to be expected these days and if she's kind-hearted and understanding woman who really likes you...

    In any case: we need to find a way to help you worry about it less because we know that'll only increase the likelihood of failure (or of self-sabotage, as you say, in order to avoid it).

    Big loves to you, Brother.
  11. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Thanks @ananoman & @Billy B.

    I deliberately wrote the above post as it went through my head on Sunday morning, raw, tired and in the clutches of victimhood...

    Yep time to allow myself to feel that "roar" energy again. Step up and face that fear of failure, face that fear of rejection.
    Maybe I should try the @Musicman 2.0 rejection therapy. ;)

    A couple of days ago there was a good discussion between @Wabi-sabi and @Newman8888 about the disowning of sexuality because it has been shamed in childhood. Fuck it is still here for me... I talk myself into ED...

    If I keep the mindset of my post there, then of course nothing is going to happen! Way too much emotional energy caught up in not failing! Where is the room for play in that? Where is the room for me to just be me? I am the funnest most supportive guy you can imagine for my friends, male and female. Then when I feel this attraction to someone I become this child that wants to be seen, then I try to be the person I think they might be attracted to. Someone other than me. What a mindfuck... I am me and they either like me or they don't. And that is all really.

    Bobbie has some work to do. Easy work actually, the work is just be me. That is that "roar", not hide but just have fun and share what I feel and want... (like I do on this forum! but now in the world out there)
  12. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

  13. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Time to not be the funnest person for others. Be fun for yourself. The fun us is often just a mask, so that isn't real, anyway. So, it isn't that you are fun with others, but have a mask on for females you are attracted to; the mask is on in both instances. Just some thoughts.
  14. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    I woke up Friday morning feeling rage, frustrated at myself, stuck...

    My usual response is to deny the rage, suppress it, bury it for fear that I would snap at the people around me.

    "Hang on a minute" I thought "don't push this away, just be with it, see what happens..."
    Rather than snapping at my colleagues, I worked like a Trojan, running up and down the sand dunes of a great National Park around here.
    I felt energised, the feeling I can move mountains just by looking at them... I thought my energy would collapse later in the day but it didn't, I came home and did productive computer work till 9 in the evening. My communication with my colleagues was clear all day, energised, no snapping whatsoever...
    And I felt horny, genuinely horny, finally some feeling in my dick, energy flowing down there...

    So that is the 'roar'...

    The energy of fire, the life force, the energy to get shit done, warmth, excitement and zest for life. The unhealthy side of that energy is anger, lust and rage, too hot, burning stuff up.

    I realise now that I have suppressed, shunned any fire in my life, both the life force as well as the unhealthy anger lust and rage. I was somehow conditioned to see it all as bad as I was never allowed to be angry as a child nor too loud and playful.
    Most of my life I have wanked this life force away, suppressed my anger, suppressed my excitement by pushing it into PMO shadow land.
    The outcome was an angry, lustful man with no energy...

    So much to learn, bring it on...
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  15. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Your roaring loud my friend and I can hear it clearly. :)
  16. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Totally, dude, totally. I have already had similar experiences a few times, I expect them to be a regular occurrence once I come out the other side of this reboot in 6 to 12 months.
    Happily doing my time in various flatlines to get that back into my life, to get back my spirit completely.
  17. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Thx 40 and Saville!

    The process keeps on going. I am so happy with the fighting spirit I somehow found in this no-PMO journey. And the fighting spirit stays. What a difference from the continual "giving in" and "giving up" that comes with the addiction, eroding to the soul. So that is what we find back when we slay this demon, our soul and fighting spirit.

    I am even getting kinda comfortable with being rejected over and over again (it always hurts, but I learned in this journey how to deal with pain). It happened again last week when I proposed to spend some more time with a woman I have known for a long time and really like. The same brutality as with Donatella last year. Then when she noticed I can actually weather that storm of rejection she turned like the wind... after an hour of arguments as to why it would be a bad idea to start something with me and how deficient I am she said "This is going to sound confusing but I would like to explore my sexuality with you..." Go figure, weird creatures they are, lol.

    Here I was feeling quite frustrated and hopeless that the self pleasuring exercises given to me by my therapist did not work. Cock not responding whatsoever.
    I would have called myself being in flatline as I have not experienced too many morning woods of late.

    The reality is that after spending the night with Michelle last night that my cock responds to being with her. Effortless throbbing hard on without stimulation, just holding each other and allowing the flow of energy. No ED, no DE, no PE whatsoever. In charge. Wow, blows my mind. Feels good. Cloud 9.

    Bit of a mystery my cock, yet my inkling is that he has a healthy mature mind of its own. As if he has enough of the bullshit of the past and now shows me when it is right for to engage... Anything that slightly reeks of the self abuse in the past (PMO), the porn model like dates, self pleasuring still modelled on the MO paradigm and he says, nope not coming to that party.

    I just have to learn to trust my body again. And if my cock refuses a date or an exercise I better learn to listen!

    Greetings from the man who fearlessly hangs out in the exciting world of the unknown. Like seeing the familiar for the first time again.

    This path blows me away...
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  18. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Love this. :)
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  19. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Wow! Great news, Bobby J! Things are really coming together at your end. Fantastic reading about yr on going journey of discovery and healing. :)
    bobjes likes this.
  20. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Day 345

    what? almost a year of not watching P? Me?

    Yep you Bobbie! Well done mate. :)

    The adventure is on going. Hanging out with M. She knows my PMO journey as she was one of my support people when things were tough the end of last year. She too wants to "rewire" as she has had an interesting journey with her sexuality.

    I start to understand the need not to ejaculate too much now. I go straight into flatline. I now also start to understand the lack of feeling down there that I have heard guys talk about on their journals. There have even been occasions where I do not feel I have a hard on? It frustrates me no end...

    M. invited me to go to a tantra workshop with her yesterday. Reading up on the tantra thing it sounded quite good, healing around sexuality...
    There were about 40 people there, even mix of men and women. And straight up we were invited to eye gaze, then hug, then stroke, then kiss complete strangers? After an hour of this stuff we were invited to take our clothes off? Yep an orgy described as a healing experience... (@Billy B. Only in B. B.)

    We looked at each other, left them to their shenanigans, laughed our heads of and went home for some old fashioned vanilla love making.
    It felt great and healthy and solid to leave that place.

    And part of my mind still wished I knew about these "temple" evenings 10 years ago...
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