The revolving door.

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Doper, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    I think it would be helpful trying to understand that both parties have their problems. Having PIED, for quite some time I couldn't grasp why people who are not plagued by PIED want to quit porn. But I'm sure that I would have acted out in major ways hadn't I been impotent from the beginning of being sexually active. Not to speak of brain fog, anxiety, adhd like symptoms e.g.. Suffering is always subjective. As silly as it sounds, someone with a torn nail could suffer worse than someone who is paraplegic. Having been in a mental ward, I know that some people really identify with their condition, like 'Oh look at me, I'm suffering so hard with my schizophrenia but you wouldn't know, you "just" have a depressive episode'. It always made me shake my head. At the end of the day, we are all in the same boat and we have a common goal and/or a common opponent. Trying to understand that someone with the same addiction but other manifestations suffers equally would be helpful. And without lecturing anyone, I would like to pick up on something Doper said:

    I think, people who never experienced ED from the get-go being young and healthy can't fathom what it does to you as a person. Impotency translates negatively to EVERYTHING you do and are until it even poisons your character. I had ED for almost 10 years before I found the reasons for it (~14 years of ED in total) and I probably have been to urologists more often in my life than my father who is almost 70 years old. You lose belief in yourself, you don't trust your skills anymore, the dirt under your nails outweigh the last broken bits of your self-esteem that is left, you can't be in relationships, you start developing problems with your male friends because they wanna know what the fuck is wrong with you when it comes to women, you get accustomed to always lying and you eventually become good at it, your anxiety baseline is much higher, everything, literally everything goes down the drain. You will never have a partner, you will never have kids, you will never have a family, you will die alone and bitter.

    I started binge drinking in my early twenties as a consequence to cope with my pain and I started becoming aggressive when being drunk because I carried so much anger and desperation inside that I couldn't direct or point anywhere because I didn't know what was happening with me. Nights in drunk tanks, brawling, vandalism, 1000€ fines, gotta catch 'em all! And eventually, you start to resign while becoming more depressed and suicidal by the day because who wants and who can live like this? It's not the malfunction per se, it's the malfunction that you are CURSED with. Imagine not being able to walk anymore but every doctor you visit tells you, your muscles are fine, your nervers are fine, your bones are fine, you must be nervous, here, take this funny blue pill, you should be able to walk just fine. But you aren't. And the fear of falling while trying to walk again increases almost exponentially. What if I fall again and break my hip next time? You can't pinpoint the problem and you can't find a solution because you don't even know what it would look like in your wildest dreams... How can you solve a puzzle, if you don't have a single piece at hand? Sometimes, it felt like being in a lucid nightmare. I once literally sprinted away from a woman who wanted to have sex with me. Like, I turned my back to her and started running full-speed Usain Bolt-style until she couldn't see me anymore because I was scared to death to fail one more time. The amount of shame is endless. In the end, having a dead dick was my least problem but it was the first problem that got it all started, so to say. So not understanding that someone with PIED is focussed on their dick, is funny to me. Porn robbed me of my late teens, my whole twenties and the first year of my thirties. And it nearly made me kill myself.

    And I bet, no, by now I KNOW that a PMO addict with a functioning dick could tell a similar story of pain, suffering, shame, and anxiety, just from the other side of the spectrum. If you read a few journals and listen to what 'these' guys say, you don't want to be in their shoes either.

    In conclusion, I hope everyone is looking ahead. Together. And please don't hesitate to spread the knowledge, it might save someone's life. It saved mine. If only the anon on an anonymous image board who posted a link of YBOP knew how much he helped me. I hope, life is treating him well... Being miserable, having bodily malfunctions, acting out because you are in the shackles of porn addiction is horrible and terrifying. And not knowing that it is caused by porn and that you are addicted to it is the worst. When I learned about it 4-5 years ago, it literally saved my life. A pissing contest to see who had it worse serves nobody.

    Sorry for hijackig your journal, had to get it off of my chest.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  2. occams_razor

    occams_razor Well-Known Member

    Amazing post!

    As for me, what's my story? PIED or intense shame and dissatisfaction?

    How about both! Lol. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

    In my case I have to say the shame and stuff was worse. Though if course, PIED contributed to the shame. I'll explain a bit more soon why PIED wasn't quite as bad as other symptoms for me personally. But I can totally understand someone being only concerned with PIED.
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  3. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    Pete, you almost gave me flashbacks with some of that post. Our experiences have been frighteningly similar.
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  4. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    I actually do understand that and fully agree with what you said here. I don't think what you posted above and what I wrote in my post is actually that different though. It comes down to pretty much the same thing: our problems might be different, but we all suffer from our problems nonetheless and you really can't say one is worse than the other because it's all a matter of perspective. Perhaps my line about guys with PIED being so focussed on their dicks came across the wrong way. If it did I'm sorry for that. Ofcourse I understand that when you have PIED you have a strong focus on your dick and in my defence I actually did say as much in that post. I would probably have the same thing if I had PIED. The point I was trying to get across though was that while I do understand the focus on ones dick not functioning I think it might blur other important things that one doesn't focus on. And I think it's save to say that's the case when someone says he envies the guys on here that don't have PIED. Like you said yourself: "If you read a few journals and listen to what 'these' guys say, you don't want to be in their shoes either".
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  5. occams_razor

    occams_razor Well-Known Member

    First of all, I'd just like to say that when I wrote this:

    I was kind of unaware that it was in your thread, because I was replying to Pete McVries's comment which showed up in the "recent posts" or whatever.

    Well, porn takes your existing problems and makes them a thousand times worse. It's like you've got a sore knee and porn says, let me break it for you.

    One thing that really pisses me off about my porn use is that it made me less assertive and I allowed others to treat me like shit. Then I'd use porn because I felt like shit. Maybe a few days later I'd be in a rage about what happened. But then next time I saw the person I would have been in another post-porn state and I'd allow them to treat me like shit again.

    As you mention later in your post, "What is causing problems for many are probably undiagnosed psychiatric issues." Yeah, maybe (aside - psychiatrists and psychologists talk so much shit it's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff). You kind of contradicted your previous statement about all our problems being our fault or whatever.

    Anyway, yeah perhaps I had some lack of assertiveness but porn made it way worse. When I quit porn I told a lot of people to go fuck themselves one way or the other.

    I've never known another bad habit or drug to utterly take away my assertiveness.

    Anyway, take this with a pinch of salt. I take your post with a pinch of salt also (I mean that in the best way). I gotta go right now.
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  6. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    @Doper: sure, I could answer your question, but will that make a difference? I don't know man, sometimes a discussion is not worth it because your points of view are just way too far apart. To me this is one of those discussions. Perhaps I could have seen that coming when I replied to your post, but I didn't. That's my bad. I hope you understand that.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  7. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    This started as a reply to another thread and may not make sense at the start because of that and it went way off topic so I'm just posting it here.

    I'm not interested in masturbation and think of it like Underdog, the only time you should be thinking about women is if you are approaching or having sex. That being said, I don't believe in "rewiring" in the traditional sense. Rewiring to me is purely adjusting from consuming and getting an excessive high from VISUAL sexual content and depending on that excessive high to maintain an erection ---- to being able to maintain an erection with no visual content at all, or little as possible. And I don't think sex is actually the best way to go about that (especially with pro's) because there is still a strong visual component to it. Unless it was done in the dark without fantasy. Especially since today's women that are done up to the nines are not what men have been evolved to have sex with. Throughout history we've had sex with dirty, stinking, hairy beasts that none of us no matter how thick our beer goggles could be would want to touch them. We definitely did it purely to sensation, what could you fantasize about?....You wouldn't know what a smoking hot chick looked like any more than a fish knows the outside of a fishbowl. That's what gave us PIED, we've been jerking off to caveman unobtainium for years.
    I think this may be why so many don't cure their ED for way too long is because of this overattention to "dopamine receptors" and not enough on rewiring from visual stimulation to physical sensation (and as little as possible). If all one does is abstain, even for long periods and then relapses to the same thing they've always done (visual stimulation), or you're trying to have sex but you're completely reliant on visual stimulation, you're not changing much of anything.

    A curious thing happened to me back when I was 17 or 18, ten years before I learned WHY I had erectile dysfunction. I was desperate to figure out anything that would help, and being young and stupid I tried jelqing, as it was all the rage at the time (don't do this). Now up to this point I had no morning or night erections whatsoever, and that would be completely alien to me. I started a vigorous jelqing routine while looking at one of my few skin mags (off topic but notice I already had terrible PIED and all I had was a couple magazines and sporadic p2p), jelqing entails keeping your penis semi-erect for a long period while milking it, I would look at the porn mag to facilitate this, but in general was not turned on and was more in a somewhat meditative state as it's boring but you do get in tune with your body after a while and without really any visual or physical stimulation keep yourself semi-erect. Well what do you know after maybe a month of this my erections were the best in my life and not only had my morning erections come back, they were insane hard as rock, absolutely incredible stick around for way too long erections. Even after I cured myself of PIED after going like a year hard mode, I didn't have morning wood like this. And this is while I was still looking at porn and nutting every day. At the time I unfortunately attributed my increased virility to jelqing and that ended deleteriously. But that's another story.
    I'm quite sure the reason for the miracle morning wood was that I was training my body to maintain erections for long periods with as little visual and physical stimulation as possible (no dopamine rush whatsoever). This I think may be one component that is missing to get rid of PIED way faster for the people it takes forever for. There is no doubt that you still have to stop watching porn forever TO GET AROUSED BY REAL WOMEN. This is just another essential component.

    What I am advocating for those that feel the traditional plan doesn't seem to be working:

    Do a hard 90 days no arousal method, more or less depending on how you feel. The dopamine thing or whatever it is is real, but I don't think it can be the problem after several months if you're not relapsing.

    Then once you are able to get an erection to physical stimulus alone, you will start your training. This will entail very light masturbation without any fantasy (of course), but you also must not focus on the physical sensation (which is the same as fantasizing as you have to FOCUS on the physical sensation to enjoy it), even if you're only 50% erect, just jerk off with that and think about nothing at all, or taxes or groceries or whatever. just keep your dick somewhat hard, without going soft. But don't nut, this shouldn't be a problem if you're doing this correctly as you shouldn't be enjoying this whatsoever, it should be a boring as hell chore. Porn teaches you to continuously get hard/go soft looking for the next video, we want to train to keep an erection, without any dopamine rush whatsoever.
    If you cannot maintain an erection this way, keep doing hardmode until you can.
    I think it goes without saying that if you can maintain a hard erection lightly jerking off while daydreaming about geopolitical strife or whatever, I guarantee if you have a girl in front of you your dick will get hard.

    This works for me because I'm addicted to porn, not jerking off to no fantasy/sensation, I can take or leave jerking off. Doing what I mentioned here does not make me more likely to relapse than I already am, as it couldn't be more different than porn.

    Of course there is a small rewiring component when it comes to actual women. I think retraining your cues to getting an erection from for example: sitting in front of computer, think of pornstar = get hard to being close to real girl, make out = get hard. I think you retrain these cues relatively quick.
    But main thing is to retrain 1. MAINTAIN an erection with very little stimulation 2. Not need heavy visual stimulation to acquire erection

    Now these ideas are only slightly tested by me. I was doing this for a bit a few weeks back, but then I relapsed (booze) pretty hard and because of this I couldn't maintain an erection with this method afterwards, so I'm charging back up to give it another go. But my morning woods did come back during the tests as good as they've been in a couple years (possible coincidence). And the extreme positive change in erections/morning wood quality I received from jelqing was too anomalous to ignore.

    I'm sure this may seem like not the best idea to some, like you may put yourself backwards and risky for some and it's better to just abstain, and that's why I haven't tried this far sooner. But I've come to the conclusion that this may be an absolutely necessary part of healing. Any input welcome.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  8. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    “The perpetual hesitation of the neurotic to launch out into life is readily explained by his desire to stand aside so as not to get involved in the dangerous struggle for existence. But anyone who refuses to experience life must stifle his desire to live – in other words, he must commit partial suicide.”

    - Carl Jung, Symbols of Transformation

  9. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    You know how after you're totally desensitized to porn, and you can no longer feel anything when you watch it, then after you abstain from it for a while and get somewhat sensitized again if you watch porn you can really feel it, like the dopamine just blasting the fuck out of your brain?.....yeah I know you all know. I'd argue the dopamine hit you get at that point is more intense than you get from blow. I'm sure most people would think that's insane but the brain feeling you get is quite comparable IMO. And I thought maybe that's why some people get PIED and others don't, the ones that do get it are getting way more overstimulated than those that don't, I'd assume this has already been postulated.
    I was also thinking about all the articles we've all probably read somewhere down the line that social media and the internet, video games, alcohol etc. are all giving us little dopamine hits and turning our brains into a bowl of slop. Has anyone ever gotten the buzz that you get from searching and clicking on porn tube sites from clicking and searching youtube, twitter, facebook or whatever your internet vice of choice is? I haven't, I don't feel anything at all doing any of that ever. But I know I'm addicted to constant clicking. So I'm wondering is it because the hit you get is so minimal that one wouldn't feel it, or is it the fact I spend most of my waking life in front of a screen and that has made me so desensitized I don't feel it. Now of course the level of hit your going to get isn't going to be the same as porn, but in the depths of porn addiction I doubt too many addicts feel much of anything while watching or clicking around finding porn either. I didn't.
    So that's a question for anyone reading this that spends VERY LITTLE time online (if such creature exists): do you feel that dopamine hit while surfing the internet sites of your choice?
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  10. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    I know exactly what you are talking about. The fact that you can actually feel the dopamin squirt is unreal after having acknowledged that this is what's happening. Despite being clean, I still get these squirts whenever I come across something that closely resembles porn (I have watched) and triggers something in my brain. Doesn't happen very often though. It's still annoying. Interesting to note: I never get these unreal dopamine hits when having sex. And for me, they also do not feel good anymore. Whenever I feel it, I know, I'm probably in dangerous territory and get the hell out of there.

    The buzzes I've gotten from weed or alcohol (never went beyond that) are much more mellow. But I guess, it also depends on how you consume drugs. I had a friend who only smoked bong because he was really a fein for the initial hit you apparently get. To me, he always looked like he had just done heroin after taking a hit from the bong.
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  11. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    Yeah sometimes I wonder whether it feels good as well, but I'm definitely addicted to it. And as you mentioned the only place you can get that feeling is from porn. Sex, even if what you're doing is the exact epitome of what get's you going, (gives you the biggest hit) it completely fails to give it to you, at all. It is really strange. It's like you're eating a steak but it doesn't taste like anything (Somehow the addiction makes you rather watch someone eat steak than actually eat it). Sex is obviously better, but people that think they will never have any want of porn again if they are getting laid are in for a rude awakening, because you will not get that weird drug like high you crave, but then you won't feel like a zombie after either and your shit will still work. Again, on top of the fact it is 100% free and available 24/7, I think this shit is the most addictive thing because unlike drugs (which I don't do or advocate)which are hit or miss (mostly miss), with porn you can immediately dose yourself with hit after hit as long as you want, and it works perfectly, it's like you have wires hooked up to your brain and a button you can press for a dose. That is until you're desensitized, then it doesn't work so well anymore.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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  12. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    That's a very good comparision. Or maybe, PMO is like eating tasty looking slaughterhouse waste saturated with flavor enhancers. If you feed on it long enough, a real steak, the very thing you desired in the first place, will do nothing for you anymore or only very little.

    It's funny, how often have I heard from various people (even my urologist) that sex isn't so special anyway and that MO often feels better. Firstly, it's ironic because of you almost entirely hear this from people who are getting plenty of sex. And secondly, if sex (or maybe orgasms to be more precise) are abundant to you, then they lose their exceptionality in a way. That is one of the major reasons why I haven't implemented MO to date and I don't plan on doing so as long as I'm in a relationship. And if this relationship should end one day, I'll plan on taking the hunger as fuel to get a partner again. Moreover, it makes me look forward to seeing my partner more because the sex I have with her is the only way to have an orgasm for me.

    If you eat a cinnamon parfait or crème brûlée six days a week after dinner, a homemade tiramisu on sunday won't elicit a jubilation anymore. It sounds a bit first world problem-ish but I think the abundance of 'things/stuff' you desire, like or even need is not necessarily a good thing. Take your games library (if you have one) or a streaming service like netflix. It gets harder and harder to decide how to spend your precious leisure time. You will probably browse some time through netflix or steam and once you've decided what to spend your time on, you will also most likely have doubts about whether or not you should have started another game or watched another movie. It's like we are progressively losing our ability to engage with items that do not stimulate ourselves quickly anymore. How often have you heard people saying about good series or movies that they have stopped watching them after 10 minutes or the first episode, because it was not appealing enough for them? As a kid, you watched movies ten times and you loved it. You played that one video game you had over and over again without getting bored because it was the only one you've had and on top of it, it was really good.

    It think, that is the reason why so many youtube videos tailored to younger folks have these ineffable cuts all the time because they make you stick to it and that is also the reason why compilations with quick cuts in porn are such a popular genre. If constant stimulation or continual rewards are absent, people will turn to something else, where the reward button is directly wired to the brain, as you correctly pointed out.

    It's a tragedy, really.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  13. Guts

    Guts Active Member Staff Member

    @Doper - I miss when you were Joaquin Phoenix. I've told my friends that I think porn is more dangerous than cigarettes and they both laugh at me. I don't know about you guys but PIED got me very close to killing myself. I don't think cigarettes have ever made anyone want to kill themself. I think internet porn is incredibly unique and unlike any other drug. It must be that we are the ones that get the strongest hit to sexual stimulation, and guys that continue to use porn without getting PIED just don't get the hit that we do.

    @Pete McVries - I agree, I go back to games of my childhood and I have a hard time playing them because I've been so desensitized by current games. Reading books and watching movies are getting difficult for me as well. Maybe you've read it but Nicholas Carr's The shallows talks about the neuroplasticity of how the internet has changed us, I really recommend it, it's essentially what we're talking about.

    Maybe you guys have this too but I'm at the point where the internet isn't really exciting to me anymore, I just go on it because it's all my brain knows what to do now.

    One of my goals in life is to try and stay away from the internet for a year, I hope someday I can. I just don't know how I'd start.
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  14. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    Pete- What you said about movies is my exact experience, I used to watch the same ones all the time and be happy, now I have 100x as many and it takes me as long to pick one as watch one, not just that, I love movies but even that is a trigger for drinking because I don't even enjoy THAT without drinking, or watching TV or sports. The only thing I feel at home doing without drinking is wiring myself up to the internet. It's fucking mental. It's funny because I am generally a minimalist, I inherently know consumer products and shit like that won't and don't make me happy. But I honestly think that give it like an hour without a computer screen and nothing else to preoccupy me, I am immediately having withdrawal symptoms. while using the internet I am generally working most of the time, not dicking around, but as soon as an idea of something to search for pops in my head, I have a hard time keeping it at bay. My new thing is I write down the ideas for later. I agree about not jerking off, the whole point of this is to get laid, and getting away from that is as important as getting away from porn as it saps your ambition, it may not make you feel completely fucked like porn but you gotta have the drive to get things done. And I think it is loserish just like porn is. Can you picture James bond sitting around whacking off.
    I think it's crazy how far off the scale of the overton window the stuff we are talking about is, the average person would think this is lunacy. But this is the basis of all meditation, the less stimulation you receive the happier you will be.

    Guts - Martin Shorts character is the funniest thing in that movie, but your right it doesn't come through in that pic, I'll be Doc Sportello from now on. I'm different with the games, I like playing old games, or indy games or mods. I think 95% of what comes from big corporations is garbage now as they don't want to take any creative chances and risk missing on their quarterly earnings, so you're essentially playing the same game you played 15 years ago with better graphics, and in many cases it's worse. Man I sound like a snob. I have meant to read The Shallows, but have too many books on the go already.
    If you don't need your computer for making money I would get rid of it today, start meditating, and my bet would be this would change ones life even more than NOFAP. Possibly exponentially more.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  15. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    I think this is a great clip.

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  16. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I agree with you on that one. I don't know what it would like to be totally desensitized though. Last night I was on YouTube and there was a thumbnail of recomended videos which showed a talk show with a screen behind with a scantily clad/porn-type woman. It was a thumbnail of a thumbnail and it had a large effect on me. But I know that if I got into PMO I would reach maximum escalation in less than an hour and then be scrolling forward and yawning on high-velocity compilations.
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  17. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    Haha, I had to smile reading this because I can relate so much. What if I just watch some topless videos and not escalate any further? Yeah, great idea that's what I'm gonna do. 10 minutes later I was watching a split screen compilation and STILL wanted more. It's a bottomless pit and the fall never ends.
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  18. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    Alright well I've been fucking up lately and going backwards, pretty embarrassing. I imagine if young little me could see me now he would not be impressed. So I've been thinking of getting drastic, no more computer, or web browser, or only if absolutely necessary. I always think if I do this I'll lose a lot of productivity, but I think I may be able to knock off 60% or something of internet use while still getting what I need to get done, the rest is time suck bullshit. Or full blown no computer for a while. If I'm honest with myself, and weigh the cost/benefit of no income/seeing what life would be like after a few months of no internet, and almost guaranteed porn addiction squashing, the latter wins out.
    I thought a good compromise might be I can watch all the TV and play all the video games I want, but I have to not drink either, and exercise, and not eat shit. TV and video games aren't all that appealing to me, so I'd probably just end up cleaning the house compulsively like Howard Hughes (minus the piss jar collection).
    As an aside, I was reading about "dopamine fasting", my god are these people retarded. It's all in the NYTimes and everywhere, these Silicone Valley nerds can seemingly turn cool reasonable things, like taking acid, into complete pansyfied nonsense. In the dopamine case, they take something, lack of stimulation, also called "meditation" in some circles, practiced for thousands of years, somehow trademark it for themselves, and sell it as a cool new fad to the media as something they invented. So the extreme versions of this fast, includes not touching anyone and absolutely no eye contact, among other nonsense, is only practiced for 1 day. What the hell is that going to do? nothing. Sadly, we here know that all to well. It takes a long time for you brain to change in this way. There's all these stupid clickbait articles/video's.....

    "I did a dopamine fast for 24 whole hours, HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED!!!"
  19. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    As to not derail another members journal I'd like to continue my views on what damaged dopamine receptors feels like and what it doesn't feel like. Every time I continually fuck up and send myself back down the rabbit hole of addiction it follows a predictable timeline and set of symptoms. Over a month or two, I will go from being able to easily say no to the addiction to it being MASSIVELY harder to stop myself. while it's far harder to say no, the drug is also giving me less blast to the brain, almost none. This coincides with my erections getting somewhat shittier, and a general deadening of getting that blast of good feeling (dopamine) when I think of trying to do anything constructive. Then, in a very short period of time, everything will go to hell almost instantly. I can't stop watching porn even when I know this moment is the moment I have to stop or the time it takes to reboot gets exponentially longer (in my experience), my erections almost overnight go absolutely to hell, and I get this utter deadening feeling in my brain. Now this last point the other member I mentioned had issue with, and I'd like to explain in more detail about this feeling. This is not an emotional feeling like guilt or shame or a feeling that makes me weirder around people in public or likely to lash out etc.......Those feeling are associated with relapse and after a couple days clean (for me at least) they are gone and I'm right as rain again......No, this is a completely different thing, this is a medium to long term feeling (weeks to months even with no relapse) of general.....nothingness, I guess, it's really the opposite of a feeling like guilt or shame, because those are strong feelings, this is anti-feeling, and it's exactly what I would expect you would get when you've just damaged your reward system. It's one of the feelings you get with a hangover, or cocaine use, not the bad feelings....the part that makes you not want to do or try anything, because you don't get that happy blast of dopamine when you think about.....I wanna go skiing, clean my room, or whatever, NOTHING, NO FEELING, ZOMBIFIED. That's what I'm trying to describe, and it takes a long time to get it back.

    This video below shows brain scans of addicts, and includes gambling addicts and the obese, showing their D2 receptors are in fact damaged. Now I'm no gambler (at least I don't see it that way) but I do like to eat. I have before compared the dopamine blast feeling you get from porn to cocaine (the latter also gives euphoria etc, from it's work on other neurotransmitter), feeling it's quite similar. I have never felt any other drug or alcohol or addictive substance including sugar, give you any feeling within miles to what I can hit myself with with porn......So if food or alcohol or gambling can damage your reward system, I'm pretty sure porn + wackin it, especially edging can do one hell of a number on your receptors.
    And I mean, if one does not believe that this type of damage is occurring, what is the point of "waiting to heal"? There would be no reason to wait for anything because there would be nothing to "heal".
    Anyhow, if you're interested check out the links below, interesting fella to listen to.
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  20. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    Just some links that may be of interest.

    I also want to bring up naltrexone again. I got a prescription for it to help me stop drinking. Unfortunately, it made me feel absolutely horrid, I'm not sure how much of that was that it makes your hangovers several times worse, and how much was first order side effects of the drug. I also wanted the prescription to see if it would have the same effect on porn use. This is what this drug does, you do the addictive behaviour, and to simplify, you do not get the blast of dopamine from the behaviour while on the drug, so that over time you weaken the neurological pathway of the addiction because you do not get the pleasurable sensation you are seeking. I only took the drug once, but that day I watched porn and while it was somewhat enjoyable, it did not have the same effect. I wacked it for ten minutes without nutting then lost interest and went and did something else and didn't think about coming back for more, no willpower needed. Now tell me addicts, when was the last time you did that? For me it's very rare, maybe never.
    It was as the study below mentions "Take it or leave it". This drug gave me shitty side effects, but I'm in the minority, many people don't even feel they are on it. And IT ABSOLUTELY WORKS. I've written about this before. No replies. I and others have written about and added links to data showing different substances that either help with withdrawals and cravings or are shown to quicken the process of neurotransmitter normalization, which is what we are after here, whether people know it or not. Again, basically no replies. I just don't understand it. I would take a canoe to Africa if I knew there was drugs and substances there that worked for what we are trying to do here. They exist and can be shipped to your door or gotten at your doctor. I dunno, I'd just think people would take into consideration all the help they can get since many struggle for years.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
    Bilbo Baggins and Pete McVries like this.

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