The Orgasm Reboot: A New Approach [CONTROVERSIAL]

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by TheUnderdog, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    This thread arose as a consequence of people being consistently unable to go cold turkey.

    I'm not advocating orgasm, nor am I advocating cold turkey.

    My point is that becoming obsessed with trying to do a "perfect reboot" could lead to rationalizations such as "If I'm going to fap, I might as well fap to porn and then start all over again".

    People are so preoccupied with the "long streak of abstinence" that they forget that fapping 4 times in a month is better than fapping 7 times in a month, or that fapping without porn is better than fapping with porn.

    They keep going "back to zero" everytime they relapse, hoping that someday they might be able to achieve the mighty 100 days of abstinence, without realizing that small decisions such as fapping once in a day instead of 3 times make a huge difference.
     
  2. richard29

    richard29 Member

    If you have no ED, course not. Some people avoid sexual stimulation for myriad reasons, such as they have PIED, O'ing is too closely linked to PMO'ing and they want to break those connections, sex puts them back in a flatline and they want to abstain longer and many other personal reasons. But if you have no ED and are just trying to cut out porn it's very healthy.
     
  3. Nerf Herder

    Nerf Herder Member

    I had 259 days of complete PMO/MO abstinence in 2013. That's over 70% of the year. I felt i made zero progress until my current streak.
     
  4. Alfie

    Alfie New Member

    Hi there!

    Regarding not fantasising while masturbating, I can't help but feel it's normal to fantasise during masturbation. Ok, you probably don't want to fantasise about an unrealistic scene you've seen in a pornographic movie, but fantasising about a woman, whether it's someone you know or someone you've seen in the media, is surely normal?

    There is a lot of talk about how our ancestors would masturbate without internet porn, and obviously without TV and even photos before that, but isn't mental stimulation part of the arousal? Feeling aroused by an attractive person is normal.

    My number one enemy is porn, and whilst I've tried no fap completely, I always end up relapsing and using porn. Now I've decided to give up porn and continue masturbating (only when I feel the need and not just for the sake of it!) If I can wean myself off pornography (even if it means I end up thinking about an actress WITHOUT watching a movie of her or viewing pictures) then I feel this is better and will still help me rebalance my brain to a healthy state.

    Just wondering what everyone else's take on this is? I realise I still have to remain very careful and not slip back into my old ways.

    Thanks!
     
  5. picats3141

    picats3141 Active Member

    Just curious: Those who are doing the orgasm reboot (I don't intend to): When do you MO?

    Are you setting up a masturbation schedule for yourself or something? Or are you just MOing when you feel you really, really, need a release?
     
  6. Pete Bozukov

    Pete Bozukov New Member

    My memory is a little faulty, but I remember masturbating while thinking of naked ladies BEFORE I discovered porn. Is whacking it while thinking of my girl wrong? Are you just supposed to sit there and jerk it and feel good and just stare at the ceiling fan? Is that the only time MO is Ok?
     
  7. Andress

    Andress New Member

    This is not the case for me.I didnt masturbate at all for 119 days and my libido was nonexistant since day 35/40.Later i masturbated without porn a few times and my libido was still nonexistant.I have been pornfree for 133 days and masturbation free for 25 days now and my libido is still nonexistant.I have never managed to get out of my flatline and withdrawal phase since day 45 and now im at day 173.
     
  8. liberty2969

    liberty2969 New Member

    I'm curious as to how people are doing with this approach, as this is the route I am attempting to follow. Since we have no true clinical expertise on how to properly reboot/rewire I feel that experimentation with strategies is important so we can figure out what works and what doesn't. For me I'm at about 4 weeks no PMO, only MO'd twice at this point, and I'm feeling great. I've noticed a slight improvement with erections induced by sensation only, without any fantasy at all, I just focus on the feeling. The erections are slow, but they get there.

    My theory at this point is that we're dealing with operant conditioning. I feel it is possible to retrain your brain to respond correctly to the proper stimuli, that a reboot and rewire can occur at the same time as long as we're eliminating the variable that caused the problem in the first place, ie. PMO.

    I realize that this approach is not for everybody, for me breaking away from porn has been extremely easy. Porn was just a tool for me, not an addiction, I always figured if I was going to fap, I might as well fap to something, not realizing what it was doing psychologically in the process. I have conditioned my brain to respond only to porn, so now I have to re-train the brain to respond to other stimuli. Total abstinence of orgasm seems to defeat the concept of rewiring, I understand the theory behind it, that we want to break ALL connections and then slowly re-wire to the proper stimuli, I just wonder if it is the BEST way to do it. I feel strongly for those of you who have made it 30, 40, 100 days without O and then finally cave and feel defeated. I don't think the O is the problem, it's the stimuli.

    There are dangers for those who have a porn addiction though that should probably avoid this method, a total relapse into the PMO cycle would not be a good thing so if you feel that you cannot control that aspect then I feel a total abstinence approach would be recommended.

    Remember, goals are supposed to be obtainable, immediately setting out for a 100 day no MO is a really HIGH expectation. Start small to build confidence, start with 5 days... then 10.... then 20...

    Anyways, here are the steps that I've used so far:

    1. Cut out all Porn, even if you cannot cut the MO this is the first and most important step. I am totally porn abstinent and I will not cave.
    2. Go as long as you can without an MO after cutting the porn, it's a mini-reboot. I made it 9 days on my first run.
    3. Listen to your body, you know better than anyone what it is asking for. When the time comes, introduce MO slowly just start with basic sensations. I will not complete an MO cycle unless I can reach a full erection induced only be sensation.
    4. After MO abstain as long as you can once again, rinse and repeat.

    I feel that this sort of cycle will help re-establish the proper brain connections. I can already perceive much better sensitivity and pleasure just following this cycle. Now, one caveat is that I am married, and I plan on introducing stimuli from my spouse as well as time goes on to continue reinforcing the positive behaviors, but I will let you know how everything goes. I understand this is controversial, I understand that everyone is different, but I am trying to take ownership of my reboot/rewire cycle, I can only do it my way at this point.

    **EDIT: Once reason why I think this method is just as effective is as follows:

    There was NO reboot required to build the associations with porn. We gradually conditioned ourselves to respond to the wrong stimuli. This operates as the reverse of that, we must now gradually condition ourselves to respond to the right stimuli.
     
  9. AkilKamal

    AkilKamal New Member

    Well. I didn't see my sex drive since January . In currently 20. I haven't had the urge to either have sex nor masturbate. 2 weeks ago after 3 months of the reboot. I orgasm without porn and feel into a deep flatline and felt paranoid and panic attacks. I'm going to the uriologist on Monday to figure out why is that and why after that I feel as if it's the end the world . I won't advise masturbating or orgasm tbh. But everyone is different.
     
  10. sower-of-seeds

    sower-of-seeds New Member

    As a recovering nicotine addict (over 13 months without a cig!) I can see a lot of parallels between nicotine cessation and quitting using Porn. For me personally I used PMO as a way to deal with stress or boredom - it's a way to remove your mind from the dwelling on negativity of life, it's an excuse to be lazy and go lie on your bed. It's an excuse for not dealing with life in a constructive manner. This is how most addictions operate. I used cigarettes for the same reasons. Nicotine also hijacks dopamine receptors making it an incredibly addictive substance.

    Anyway, I think that we have to say it is "ALL or NOTHING". I went through a downward spiral of 'quitting' smoking only to go out and get a pack the next day or a few days later and start smoking right back at my former level. Only when I finally admitted that I was an addict, that I couldn't simply cut back, and that I must now commit myself to a life free from nicotine, only then could I come to a place mentally that precluded a relapse. For an addict there is no safe amount of time between us and our addiction. Many of my acquaintances on the quit smoking forums have thrown away quits of weeks, months, and even years because they felt comfortable enough to use again. I'm telling you right now that you have to commit to never watching porn again if you truly want freedom from that addiction.

    It is important to take each day as it comes. Fight each craving, each battle as they are presented but you must know in your heart of hearts that you will never use again. Knowing this and telling yourself this each day will strengthen your resolve.

    Today is my last day using PMO. I'm finished. It's time to start focusing on real interactions with real women who can nourish my soul. There's no way I'm going to give up MO or even O all together. Those things are not the problem. I will have to take care that my MO does not lead back to PMO. Do you guys remember those times when you didn't PMO for months? I enjoy the MO when you're thinking about a special woman whom you know personally - a crush, a girlfriend, a fuck buddy. I don't think that kind of fantasizing is a problem as long as you know that you will never use porn again. When I MO to fantasies of women I know and have been with the O is way more intense, I'm able to enact scenes in my head that convey emotional and physical intimacy and while some of those may be purely fantastical I know that eventually some of the scenes may manifest in real life. If I'm focusing my MO energy on a particular woman whom I care for and with whom I have physical intimacy, I feel that those fantasies can then be directed into healthy sex play. Mutual MO can also be a lot of fun.

    I think it's important to separate the PMO from MO. Most of us have a problem with porn not sex and MO is just a type of sex that can be healthy. We need to focus our energy on ending our addiction to Porn or other destructive sexual behavior.
     
  11. Dopaholic

    Dopaholic New Member

    I agree 100% with Underdog and have come to the same conclusion regarding my reboot. I have to separate P from MO. The real addiction for me is the porn and how its become so tied to the MO. I currently have PIED so for me I am going to abstain from MO or orgasm for as long as I can. However, my new theory is to MO without porn or with my wife when I get to that point if I feel I am on the verge of a relapse. I am determined to never use porn again. That is the main goal.... never ever again. An MO without porn is so much less damaging than edging or masturbating to porn. This is what my conclusion is after 3 relapses and what I plan to do moving forward.
     
  12. strainer

    strainer New Member

    I'm going to do this, there's no way I'm quitting masturbation altogether, to me thats impossible, I'll fap as I normally did but without porn.

    This masturbation-free approach seems like a Jesus-freak thing, no offense intended, but its moralistic, I'll jerk off if I want to, just not to porn, I doubt I'll fail, and I'm not even disfunctional, just having a hard time getting a stiff during sex and not being able to maintain an erection while wearing a condom which I always had a difficulty with, might be condom size that is too small, might be anxiety, might be desensitization from porn, or might be everything combined, so I'll start living healthier, wearing bigger condoms, relaxing and stop watching asian anal buttfucking videos.
     
  13. Borges08

    Borges08 Member

    Hello, I'm new here. I'm currently 23 years old. I've been rebooting/unwiring from porn for around a total of 425 days now, with pmo relapses included of course. During this time, I've made some serious changes to my mind set and life style. Thinking back, my relapses were never binges. It appears I had a very deep shame based hardcore pmo addiction (started when I was around 12-15 maybe) started off soft ended up hard. IIRC I went ~60 days, then another ~60 days, then 87 days, then 188 days, and I'm currently back to around 30 days again, with the last 188 days being the last time I would ever relapse to porn. I intentionally relapsed on 188 days strangely because one particular video that resurfaced from my memory would literally not leave my head for 3 weeks straight. I felt like I couldn't move foward until I got it out of the way, and when I did I didn't regret it and felt like I let that shit go for real. It was a rational relapse but sent me back farther than I liked.

    So, with that out of the way and 30 days in now, porn is pretty much not an option. Ever since I started rebooting I was keeping a strict MO schedule of once a week minimum, not being perfect of course. When I relapsed before the 188 day streak, I developed the black "crack addict" like rings under my eyes. I've had these for around 200 days straight and really brought out the shame in this whole thing. Being in public simply sucks when you look like a crack addict for this amount of time. With that being said, I don't have a sexual partner yet, and it's mostly been my choice. Personally I will SOLELY continue beating the shit out of this trash until I begin pursuing women, which has still been my choice. I felt it was better to deal with my core problems myself first, and I've learned a lot from this decision.

    Masturbation has been the hardest for me, quitting porn was pretty easy. After I stopped watching porn I began to realize how much it conditioned me to masturbation. Last week I made my first full 2 weeks without masturbation, which really healed me quite a bit.

    So back at day 7 tomorrow again no MO with the intention of another 2 weeks however I have massive blue balls and feel like wet dreams will start kicking in soon. God damnit..mentally now I can make 14 days no MO fairly easily however it's gotten to the point where I should just MO to prevent constant wet dreams.

    NOTE: If anyone is concerned for their own personal sake, I also have a few cross addictions which has definitely prolonged my reboot. Marijuana, video games, and alcohol. The alcohol died quickly when I first started. My goal right now is to keep healing raccoon eyes. If I do one any of these activities, it affects it so everything has to be controlled. I feel a tingle even after drinking just one beer. Strangely, weed lights up the pathway as well. 3 heavy hits will do the trick and really hit my brain hard, so I've been trying to limit it to 1-2 small hits every week or two. It seems that as I quit porn, the other activities started to lessen real fast.

    Hope it helps.
     
  14. Borges08

    Borges08 Member

    You're completely right. However you WILL fully recover eventually but expect it to take over 400 days, which is not cool...at all.

    Asking people to not orgasm at all without a sexual partner when they were orgasming multiple times a week regularly to hardcore porn is not ideal, however with my experience I would say the absolute minimum for a speedy reboot is once every 2 weeks minimum. Once a week just doesn't work because it sends you back 3-4 days leaving you only 3 days to heal.
     
  15. BruceWayne

    BruceWayne Building the life I want, day by day...

    One thing I'm trying to figure out with this is when people who use this approach are having urges to look at porn, do you just leave the computer or whatever you're doing and masturbate without porn instead? Wouldn't it be bad to masturbate if it is brought on by porn urges?
     
  16. BruceWayne

    BruceWayne Building the life I want, day by day...

    When I'm triggered, most of the time masturbating without porn doesn't even cross my mind. I fire up the porn first, THEN I go on to masturbate. I think the last time I masturbated without porn was about 6 months ago actually. I think the idea of going complete abstinence is what makes going without porn seem so insurmountable. I forget that I CAN still masturbate. It's the porn that really matters.

    That being said, I'm going to try this approach. I can see myself going a long way without porn if I go this route.
     
  17. jnv

    jnv Active Member

    I came upon YBOP and learned about Porn being an addiction around same time last year. I've been fighting it and keeping a journal (on rebootnation.com) since that time. I did it entirely on Hard Mode and I must have relapsed like 30-40 times. My best was 45 days of nofap (with peek at Porn at day 33) and since then, I've been unable to get past 30 days. The idea of separating Porm from masturbation crossed my mind several time and seemed logical to me, but bereft of "theory" backing it, I never actually tried it. I came upon this post two weeks ago and I decided to give it a go. Lets see what happens!
     
  18. rebooting

    rebooting Member

    I agree with OP. A lot of people think a reboot is digitally programmed in a chip in the brain. As if you need to reach the exact number of 90 days without porn and masturbation to make it work. When I read some posts saying "I reached 89 days and I relapsed, I was so close, I was almost there" I'm like...seriously??? Or they do "challenges" to reach certain days and if they PMO once, they say "I'm out". Then I think, what do you mean by that? That your'e going to PMO until a next challenge is open for subscription?

    You simply need to quit porn and TEMPORARILY quit MO. If you PMO during your journey it's no big deal. Just ignore it and keep abstaining. There's no such thing as a "reset" as if it's programmed to reach certain days. It's better to PMO 2 times in 90 days and get it over with than reset your counter every 3 weeks. What's the point in resetting a counter if your'e unable to do 90 days? I would say, just do 90 days without PMO and if you accidentally slip once or twice it's part of the plan. Just keep abstaining as much as possible until the urges stay away forever.
     
  19. Peetamellark

    Peetamellark Just Say NO!

    I'm currently sitting at 51 days into a 90 day reboot with no orgasms at all.
    I have to say depending on who you read about or talk to, I'm supposed to feel like Superman right now...
    I don't.
    I don't feel bad... I am 'flatlining' right now, but even before that I didn't feel great.
    I'm doing this because I want to do a 'cleanse' so to speak.
    If I can go 90 days without ejaculating I'm pretty sure I will feel like a Super Hero if only to myself, and hey that's what it's all about.
    How can we love anyone else if we can't love and RESPECT ourselves?
    I've learnt that was I was doing with PMO was self abuse.
    I'm healing myself, and my penis so we can move past this phase that was our lives for a few years...
    Don't get me wrong...
    I'm ALL for MO... And I will return.
    But to break my PMO habit I'm going cold turkey, and I think it's going to be just what I need to get to other side of this...
    I'm enjoying the challenge... I do think I can make it, especially as I'm over half way...
     
  20. jjveetec

    jjveetec Well-Known Member

    I wonder if UD still believes in this approach? I fully understand where it comes from and for some guys here maybe it will work.....
    For me, and judging by journals not only for me, Mo is something that always leads to Pmo. So this approach definitely doesn't work for me AT ALL. Pmo/mo is a bundle, or Mo is my light beer and Pmo my vodka. Few light beers always lead to a bottle of vodka at the end of the line.

    I didn't masturbate to orgasm for nearly 3 months and it wasn't even particularly difficult to be honest. And I'm the guy who masturbated to the piont my dick was totally numb. In the year this post was written, me and my "coach" in Candeo considered that jerking off less than 3 times per day is a success for me. Because I used to go as high as 8 - 10 times, with average around 3-4. And I jerked off since I was 5 years old, for 33 years.

    Jerking off in itself bacame a problem for me, before I knew anything about porn.

    So I think it makes sense to differentiate between someone who started jerking off to fantasy before porn came on the scene, and someone who started to porn, or didn't have much mo'ing experience before he got into porn. I guess for me personally pornography was mostly the way to enhance my masturbation high. If someone's mo is strictly wired to porn, and he can mo without any erotic images (which I don't really know if it's possible but some people say it is) than more power to him.

    I'm staying out from both. I also read journals and see that a lot of people eliminate both for 6+ months and never look back.


    ----
    edit: I didn't clarify what my problem is..... I'm fully aware that it's "only if ejaculating is necessary and you can't avoid it etc... and if edward uses this approach and jerks off on day and the other guy (whatever his name was) goes right to porn than it's way better to just jerk off than porn. Which is true.
    But.....
    1/ Ed will likely experience chaser effect and watch porn eventually anyway
    2/ addicted brain is very cunning and might take this as an opportunity to justify jerking off. So I'm worried that despite your good intentions and perfect logic behind what you write, a lot of guys will use it as an invitaion to jerk-off (de
    3/ in the pressing moment like that none of them has to make this choice. they both can do some simple breathing techniques and visualisations, maybe take some mild sleeping pill and hit the hay. Might take some time to perfect it of course, but for most it will eventually work.

    So if anything this could be some sort of the last resort, when everything else fails. The thing is, I believe, that when one eventually gets it all in order, he'll masturbate only when he wants to. And I think this might be as close to "heatlhy" masturbation as we can get. In my case I usually masturbated in times of difficult choices, stress, or simply to fall asleep.
    I had to go through insomnia (3-4 days only luckily this time), genital pain (I still have it from time to time, but not so hard as in the first month) and pelvic floor pain. I had panic attack (first one in my life) and dozen other things. And didn't jerk off still. I'm not trying to blame anyone for their relaspes, because I used to be a constant relapser for nerly 4 years since I started. I don't say I won't relapse again - this I don't know.
    What I'm saying is either porn or masturbation always come down to CHOICE. It's just a matter of getting rid of this instant gratification syndrome, that's so deeply embedded in our culture.
    I caved in so many time I didn't even bother to count. Used to get 2-3 days and jerk off, than 7 days, sometime 14 or 15, than back to 3 or 4 or 5. And every time I mo'd I knew I've just made a choice. I might have been in pain, stressed, tired, restless, but I could have get out of it anyway.

    And whole discussion if mo'ing is "healthy" or not.... I'm not remotely interested in it and consider it exercise in futility. Different strokes for different folks....
     

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