The "No Arousal" Method - Celibacy of Body AND Mind

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by bigbookofpenis, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. Messenger77

    Messenger77 New Member

    Wow! Dude this is almost exactly like my plan. But I divide it into phases. I haven't really finish it but it is just like your "noA" plan. Keep it up.

    I always thought that you have to get your mind of sex and women (temporarily) to get the most out of no "PMO". That is why people who do it are less likely to relapse. Don't listen to guys that joke about what you are doing. They are the same people that "peek' or "visit prostitutes" and then they get confuse as to why they have relapsed. Keep up the good job.

    Day 27...I will never watch again.
  2. nofappin

    nofappin New Member

    What about romantic fantasy that is not explicitly sexual?

    I'll think about kissing or holding a girl's hand, or even think about what a successful conversation/interaction will go if I do approach.
  3. {32}

    Hi to comemorate my recent 200 days without PORN i issued myself a little plaquette LOL and also strangely enough had a little epiphany the other day about mechanics of OOGLING (compulsive watching of girls on street and elsehwere) and why NoA is beneficial... so here comes my notes edited... without further ado here is the plaquette and here is the essay that comes with it...


    You CRAVE oogling

    (oogling is a compulsive watching girls bodies on the street and elsewhere - the proverbial turning around to check her ass or that scanning from head to toes)

    - visual contact (oogling a girl's body in sexual way) potentiates 5% of orgasmic energy inside your pleasure centers - effect of oogling a sexy body on your brain and nervous system equals to rubbing your penis tip over tight female butt or diping the very tip of your penis just little inside aroused vaginal outer lips

    seriously, man ? You ask...

    Oh, yes... thats why you do it, oogle, dont you, because it gives you a nice pleasure kick to watch that perfect ass bump in those tight jeans... if it wouldnt do anyhting to you, you wouldnt be doing it... the reason you do it, is that it feels good to look... looking literally creates physical sensation of pleasure and arousal...

    - the pleasure centers get 5% of orgasmic energy charge just by focusing bioelectricity in your nervous system and brain pleasure centers (you may get that warmth or tingle in your groin and lower belly watching a really hot teen walk by in a tight miniskirt, hell i know i got partial erection few times walking behind a really hot teen)... your brain engages in so called "ghost activation" - erotic imagination in frontal lobes activates pleasure centers just like real sexual stimulation only in very very very small intensity... a tiny little spike...

    - example of power of imagination and "ghost activation" is wet dream where imagination can trigger pleasure, erection and orgasm and ejaculation... all these complex bodily changes are triggered just by imagination without real girl being in the same room...

    - another example of power of visuals on your physical body is if you ever noticed that pre-cum is generated just by watching porn without touching yourself - focus and imagination can trigger complex bodily processes (from erection to precum generation and complex local brain activity and bodily vasoconstrictions to name the most obvious)

    - by OOGLING tight dressed girls on the street, you are literally MASTURBATING hand-less inside your brain to an external visual imagery (image of a sexy female body hitting your eyes retina) and your physical body is responding just like in a wet dream or watching images on screen, only its much less noticable and pretty controlable because the imagery has low arousal intensity compared to full blown porn fantasy or an image of the same girl UNDRESSED - every look gives you a very small 5% potentiation of pleasure centers - its very subtle but you can definitelly feel the pleasure and arousal building up the longer you watch a hot teen in miniskirt shake that perfect ass in front of you...

    if it feels good to look, its because your pleasure centers are getting potentiated (neurochemical pleasure kick)

    - oogling tight dressed girls is like watching lingerie catalog just with 1 extra layer of clothes (its less arousing/potentiating but still pretty pleasurable) - clothes doesnt stop experienced porn addict to complete the visual fantasy and undress the girl in his imagination - many porn addicts have such a good imagination like having superman eyes and can literally see through clothes - you see, you focus, your frontal lobes imagine sexual context overlayed over the image in front of your eyes, ghost activation of pleasure centers and your body starts to respond just like in wet dream or when watching arousing images on screen without touching yourself... the difference between watching girls on street, watching girls in lingerie catalog and watching girls on screen is ONLY IN THE INTENSITY OF THE STIMULUS and therefore intensity of your body response, but the chain of underlying processes taking place in your brain and body is always EXACTLY THE SAME in all these activities...

    - do you start to see the similarity ?

    - oogling triggers same pleasure processes as watching lingerie catalog or watching porn without touching yourself - difference is only in the strength or explicity of the stimulating imagery

    watching (oogling) tight dressed women - 1-5% pleasure center potentiation
    watching erotic lingerie catalog hand-less - 10-15% potentiation
    watching hardcore porn hand-less - 30-40% pleasure center potentiation

    (the above percentage are just ilustrative but every guy who ever looked at a hot teen in miniskirt on a street and into a naughty lingerie catalog or a hardcore porn clip knows exactly what iam talking about - the feeling of arousal is pretty much the same its only the intensity that changes and the extent to which your body reacts physically - most guys dont get erections on street (some may feel a tiny tingle or wamrth in their groin and tummy) but quite a few guys do get partial erection by watching naughty lingerie catalog and majority get hard erection watching hardcore porn without even touching themself)

    - if everyday, repeated pleasure centers potentiation (5% potentiation from watching tight dressed women) and coresponding ghost activation of pleasure processes inside your brain is not bad enough on NoPMO - there is also the problem with lack of discharge - orgasm is central nervous system "static discharge" to zero potential and every guys knows what it feels like to be charged and have no way to discharge - the resulting frustration and anxiety (sometimes called blue-balls) is quite unpleasant - the trouble in any system that generates charge comes when there is constant (albeit only 5% strength) potentiation but no discharge or grounding to release it - frustration occurs

    Although infinitesimally weaker, handless oogling of girls on street triggers exactly the same chain of reactions in your brain and physical body like handless watching of hardcore gang-bang porn clip with cumshots and anal sex, double penetration, gagging and everything... in both activities there is no physical stimulation, no touching yourself, there is no one having sex with you - you only watch with your eyes and your body and mind go though a cascade or arousal and pleasure response... some invisible and some pretty complex and easy to spot, like erection and occasional precum generation...



    But dont be fooled... getting 5% potentiation from oogling and getting it 100x a day (oogling nice girls around you) will add up to equal potentiation like peaking on hardcore porn for 2 minutes 3 times a week - oogling is just little potentiation spikes distributed over entire day vs. intensive potentiation flood experienced in few intensively arousing minutes when watching short HARDCORE PORN clip... different percentage distributions... same total sum... same underlying pleasure mechanism

    Without discharge oogling also generates the same hornyness, frustration and craving inside your body and brain as peaking on porn - albeit again in much lower intensity...

    The obvious problem is that most PORN ADDICTS limit their porn viewing to zero but continue oogling girls on street (because they think its harmless, natural and doesnt do anything to their body because they dont feel anything) - so potentiation still occurs, only now its not accumulated in few intensive minutes of PORN viewing but is divided into hundred few-second short, low intensity potentiation spikes (that you can barelly notice) every time you oogle a nice girl... these numerous little potentiations add up during day and your brain gets the same amount of arousal per day like watching PORN for 2 minutes....

    (these figures are ilustrative but they prove the point - stimulation by visuals always work the same way and the difference is only in intensity/explicity and duration of the stimulus)

    And if forcing yourself to look away from nice girl's butt in jeans is tough for you on NoPMO than you know you have a big problem - its a proof that your brain is already addicted to that little pleasure potentiation spikes (5%) it can get from each look you take...

    The fact that you can't feel these 5% spikes happening inside your brain's pleasure centers everytime you oogle a woman on street, doesnt mean they dont occur... its like saying, i dont have any cancer in my body because i dont feel the cancerous cells multiplying... there is 100.000.000 biochemical processes occuring every second in your body and brain that you cant possibly consciously feel or notice...


    If you are just a little bit like me and have a steady sexual partner (according to one poll on YBR there are many addicts with steady partners during the treatment) you will have to do a single toughest decision. After quiting porn you will have to gather all your strength again and take yet another bold and painfull decision - here are your choices:

    A) keep on oogling girls - telling yourself its nothing and harmless and natural - and keep potentiating your pleasure centers a little, hundred times a day and than suffer the consequences of charged system that has no discharge - these are hornyness, frustration, anxiety, anger, unability to focus and rest, general exhaustion and fatique, anhedonia, letargy, depression

    B) admit to yourself that oogling is just like watching porn only its much less stimulating but its working on the exactly same principle:

    1) visual image hits your retina
    2) imagination in frontal lobes spontaneously occurs
    3) ghost activation of brain and body pleasure centers
    4) bioenergy is refocused and redirected into your brain and body pleasure centers
    5) pleasure centers are potentiated
    6) you feel arousal and pleasure
    7) physical symptoms may occur if potentiation crosses a certain threshold of nervous system (vasoconstriction, erection, precum generation)

    The only logical choice to make once you FULLY REALISE how oogling affects your brain and body is deciding to stop potentiating your system when there is no discharge outlet around. This undischarged potential in your pleasure centers is preventing full recovery from PORN and also creates frustration, anxiety and anger throughout the day until you can discharge the accumulated potential in your pleasure system.

    Thats why i mentioned steady girlfirends...

    Once you let your system build potential inside by oogling or watching porn there are only 2 ways to discharge that generated potential
    - via masturbation and orgasm
    - via real sex and orgasm
    (ejaculation is not necessary for discharge although minimum of man can separate orgasmic discharge and the ejaculation accompanying it)

    So stop oogling unless you can discharge. It harms NoPMO recovery of brain by keeping your pleasure centers potentiated all day.

    Instead FUCK YOUR GIRLFRIEND once in a while - during foreplay you naturally potentiate yourself to the max and than give her a good fuck and end it by total discharge.

    In situation where you are not guaranteed you will be allowed to discharge in a short while, dont potentiate your system - aka dont oogle, dont watch porn, dont peak.

    Only in situations where i know i will be allowed to fully discharge shortly after (preferably without PORN and with REAL WOMEN), I GO AHEAD AND ALLOW MY EYES TO SAVOR THE SEXY VIEW OF A REAL WOMEN'S BODY AND ALLOW MY IMAGINATION TO RUN WILD AND LET MY BODY POTENTIATE ITSELF (GOING THROUGH STEPS 1-7) AS MUCH AS IT LIKES AND THAN TOTALLY DISCHARGE WITH ORGASM (ROARING, SCREAMING AND LAUGHING - whetever your emotions lead you through)...

    Once for all... oogling is bad, unless you can discharge shortly after (preferably without PORN and with REAL WOMEN)... the pleasure kick generated by every look (5% potentiation) is addictive (creates craving for another look, recieving more potentiation, craving for even more - its a vicious cycle) and the unability to discharge the accumulating potential is making you anxious, horny, frustrated, restless, angry and after no release coming from anywhere - depressed and exhausted... brain that is constantly being potentiated has no time to rest and recover form PORN ADDICTION...

    So practice NoA... NoPMO is not enough if you keep oogling...

    Try to limit system potentiation only to situation where you can discharge with a real women shortly after... undischarged potentiation is detrimental for brain recovery...

    If you have a steady girlfriend like me, who requires occasional sex during treatment period (like every girlfirend, heh) try to negotiate a limit to "once every 14 days" for the duration of your treatment (6-12 months)...

    Allow yourself to potentiate your system ONLY on these 14 day sex occasions with your partner and keep your system from potentiating on all the other, sex free days... dont oogle... practice NoA


    Attached Files:

  4. {33}



    In pevious text "YOU CRAVE OOGLING" we established following:

    Everytime you check a girl on the street your brain pleasure centers are potentiated by about 5% - meaning you feel 5% of sexual pleasure and arousal in your brain and body and it feels good and motivates you to look again to get another 5% kick, and another and so on (for comparison when you check lingerie catalog your pleasure centers might get potentiated by 15-20% and erection may be triggered by your brain and when you watch PORN without touching yourself your pleasure centers get potentiated by 40-50% and your brain will definitelly trigger strong erection)



    Apart from potentiating your pleasure centers by 5% (feeling good) every time you see any sexual partner you also recieve EXTRA REWARD everytime this sexual partner is NEW OR PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN (the umbrella term for this extra reward for NOVELTY is Coolidge Effect)

    Yes you are rewarded (feeling good and motivated) for seeing sexual partners but you are DOUBLE REWARDED for seeing NEW, UNSEEN sexual partners.

    When oogling girls on street you rarelly see the same girl twice if you live in a capital city - so what you get is a stream of NEW, PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN stimulating erotic visuals promenading in front of your eyes and triggering 5% potentiation of pleasure centers PLUS EXTRA BONUS dopamine reward for seeing NEW, PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN partners - its like hitting a jackpot - when you walk down a shopping mall in busy hours you may see 15 NEW partners - looking at each gives you 5% potentiation of pleasure centers + extra dopamine reward for each NEW partner - 15 NEW, UNSEEN PARTNERS in 1 minute - 15 hits of pleasure centers potentiation plus additional 15 extra bonus rewards for NOVELTY...

    No wonder some guys can twist their heads off when walking down the street and their eyes are like barcode scanners, scanning every women they see from head to toes. They get a chemical pleasure kick out of that. Everytime they scan a sexy body they get 5% potentiation in pleasure centers and every time this partner is NEW or PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN they get another reward in their brain. Wow its like getting a drug hit everytime you see a sexy girl and getting 2 drug hits everytime she is NEW or PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN. Its all happening inside your brain whether you feel it or not.

    The discovery that nature rewards sex is old news but the discovery that nature gives you extra bonus reward EVERYTIME YOU SWITCH TO NEW mating partner is part of a phenomenon called Coolidge Effect and has been demonstrated on mating laboratory rats as well as humans - read an excelent article on Coolidge Effect by Gary Wilson here:

    Coolidge Effect demonstrates that every time you introduce NOVELTY in your sexual life (new reproductive partner or a visual image of a new reproductive partner) your brain generates an extra dopamine reward (chemical that makes you feel good and keeps you motivated to continue doing what you are doing at the very moment and possibly get more dopamine rewards generated).

    Nature always rewarded SEX encounters (or any prospect of possible sex encounter) because it wants all species to try hard to propagate and prevent extinction of their species - the more sex you secure the more rewards you get in your brain. Without your parents motivated by pleasure kick each time they had sex you wouldnt be concieved at all. Unlike food that is MANDATORY to prevent death within few weeks or months (depending on your previous fat and muscle reserves - how fat you are), sex can be quite easily denied for months and years, even a lifetime (thinkg of nuns and monks)… Imagine for a moment SEX wouldnt be rewarded at all in your body and brain - you wouldnt feel any pleasure in your body or brain doing it - wouldnt we all choose to live sexless life, if sex wasnt doing anything to us… this would lead to extinction of homo sapiens within 1 or 2 generations (thats about 140-180 years)… imagine nature wouldnt reward you with pleasure feelings during sex - you would have absolutly no interest in sticking that thing between your legs into that hole between her legs - why on earth would you do it, if you (or her) dont feel anything while doing it - some people might continue doing it out of duty and responsibility - because they would want to continue the species, but most guys would be too lazy and uninterested because its so boring and uninteresting without the pleasure reward associated…

    Rewarding NOVELTY in sex life - rewarding encounter (or prospect of an encounter) with a NEW, UNSEEN mating partner - is an evolutionary benefit that keeps rewarding you A LITTLE MORE THAN USSUAL every time you coopulate and impregnate NEW PARTNER rather than the SAME OLD PARTNER because nature wants you to have as many reproductive encounters as possible but also tries to increase your odds against illneses and adverse effects of all kinds, so it pushes you (by introducing BONUS reward) to join your SPERM DNA with as many DIFFERENT EGG DNAs as possible - the more encounters the better, the more unique DNA combinations - even better… again the goal is to multiply the chances of succesfull survival of species by

    A) multiplication

    (thats why NOVELTY/VARIABILITY in mating partners always gets you a little EXTRA pleasure & motivation kick (dopamine) than just fucking THE SAME OLD PARTNER)

    This was all succesfully demonstrated in laboratory and you can read about the experiments in Gary Wilson's article (linked above)


    So now the whole effect of OOGLING is starting to show up… not only you get 5% pleasure potentiation (feeling good sensation) when watching girls on street you also get another EXTRA bonus for every NEW girl that you spot (the SEXUAL NOVELTY reward)… which would be every 10 seconds in a big city where you rarelly see the same girl twice…

    So walking down a busy street and oogling is like eating a really sweet cake or smoking a good joint - just by oogling, your brain and body trigger real physical changes (very small in intensity compared to drugs or porn - easy to miss) - you are getting dopamine hits and feelings of pleasure everytime you take a look on a passing girl… if she is PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN you get a DOUBLE HIT of dopamine and pleasure… BINGO

    So by oogling, just like watching PORN, you are administering yourself pleasure and dopamine hits (the intensity is of course different between oogling and hardcore porn)

    Now that you know this is happening you make your choices if you want this to be happening in your body or not when you walk down the street…

    The obvious trouble with anything that triggers feelings of plesure is that you want more of it… as much as you can get… you crave it (you crave feelings of pleasure it triggers)… when you are not getting it you start to feel anxious, frustrated, angry, restless, etc.

    A little taste (just one look) triggers more craving…

    Often the only way out of the craving and frustration is orgasm and ejaculation which gives you one MASSIVE HIT that floods your pleasure centers and dopamine receptors and you are good to go for few hours or days (depending on libido drive) before your start to feel the craving coming back...

    Oogling is same as watching PORN - the difference is only in intensity of the stimulus hitting your eyes retina and therefore the response of your body is different in intensity (barelly noticable with oogling and very obvious with hardcore porn)...

    If you think watching PORN is bad (not all people think that), than consider oogling has exactly same effect on your body and brain as PORN only significantly lower in intensity…

    Also i outlined in previous text, that charging any system with potential (oogling, watching lingerie catalogs, PORN) without possible discharge coming soon (orgasm via masturbation or sex) may be harmfull and cause anxiety, frustration and more…


    Ok guys we've all been there we know what PORN is doing to us, i just wanted to show you that oogling and "innocent watching of girls" does the same to your body and brain as PORN… so that you know it…

    In this light NoA doesnt seem such a weird practice, its just combating a mechanism that is always happening inside your body and brain when you see a hot girl but its often too faint and unoticable to spot - but like a tiny water streak that eventually created Grand Cannyon, oogling ads up throughout the day and summed up it can have similar effect like watching porn few minutes every day… if you stopped PORN but continue oogling you are not really giving your pleasure and dopamine centers the rest they need to recover, rewire and change plasticity back to normal, unaddicted state...

    NOW I FEEL MY MISSION IS COMPLETE - i layed down on paper everything i could to explain NoA and why its beneficial - if these arguments didnt persuade you than our ways must part here - there is no universal truth - not in this text - everybody has their unique opinion on PORN, SEXUALITY, ADDICTION, ANYTHING and there is no singular judge that would say what is true and what is not - sometimes time will show what prooved to be viable and what showed to be wrong path that was abandoned and forgotten... This thread now feels complete to me with addition of the last two texts, maybe later i will start another thread about handling your sexuality in more general (post treatment) and healthy way, but thats future because iam myself still trying to learn how to live with my new sexuality after PORN - my sexulaity and libido can now be divided into 2 very distinct periods - with PORN (19 years) and without PORN (200 days) - the more and more days add up i can feel slow but profound shifts in perception of myself and the role sexuality plays in my life and the way i experience life - its a mixture of awe and sorrow comparing my life and my personality with and without PORN - the good thing is knowing things can only get better if i stay on the path heading away from PORN
  5. 19anon99

    19anon99 Guest


    Thanks for your hard work getting all of this information out there.

    It's interesting, I don't typically find a lot of interest in the science end of all of this... how the brain is effected, etc. But I still find the noA method to be the only real way for me to go. Simply put I can tell from personal experience that this process is exponentially harder if I am regularly fantasizing and oogling women. Last week I allowed myself a fantasy of an ex-girlfriend of mine. It was very much a porn sort of fantasy. I didn't M with it. I didn't accompany it with PMO or with sex chat rooms, which was something I did often when active in the addiction. However it had a devastating effect on my mind. It spiked intense cravings for M, PMO, and more fantasies over the next several days. It gave me blue balls for several days afterwards. It had severe physical and mental impacts on me. It really put my recovery at risk and I am very fortunate that I did not ultimately relapse because of it.

    I learned a really important lesson from it: No arousal other than that resulting from real human to human contact is acceptable for me. Throughout the day I have a lot of fantasies that pop up in my mind. I need to immediately push them out and refocus elsewhere. Very naturally I find I start to oogle many women who I see in public. When that happens I need to consciously force myself to look away or to try and initiate eye contact instead... see the woman as a human being with a family, a life, etc. Not as a sexual object.
  6. {34}


    Here are examples of virtual images triggering real complex body changes... the underlying principal for all pleasurable visuals to work and grab your attention is:

    1) imagination
    2) ghost activation of pleasure centers
    3) focusing and redirecting of bioectricity to various brain and body structures (including but not limited to pleasure and reward structures inside your brain)
    4) potentiation of the above brain and body structures

    The external body changes and manifestations doesnt happen on their own. There is no button labeled "erection" in your brain that is wired directly to your penis. In fact to get an erection a very very complex symphony of cascading changes have to happen in your brain and body - the full path and the many biochemical transformations and switches along the way it takes from your eyes retina down to your penis veins contracting and trapping blood in the erectile tissue is so complex that it would take whole book to describe.

    Imagery of 2 people having explicit sex
    - erection
    - in some cases pre-cum generation

    Closeup imagery of your favorite food (lasagna, pizza, cheesecake, BigMac with fries, double chocolate cake)
    - salivation

    EXAMPLE 3 (this is an example of unpleasurable visual so the structures activated and potentiated in your body and brain are other than pleasure and reward systems - the intensity of body reaction can be pretty intense in some weaker individuals)
    Ucensored police videotape of a brutal torture victim who was skinned and cut open at the same time while alive
    - chills and tingles in your stomach and spine, feeling of nausea and tension in your stomach and chest - occasional vomiting reflex or fainting

    All in all, these are only images/movies but being AT THE SCENE and witnessing any of the 3 examples on your own, taking place 2 meters away from you with sound and all... for many witnessing the real thing is too overwhelming (positively or negativelly depending on the example)

    - just a note - nobody is torturing you, nobody is even touching you - you just watch with your eyes and the image is transformed into electric signal and sent via optic nerve into your brain - your body reactions and manifestation are real though (erection, salivation, chills and all)

    oogling girls is like having to sit behind the camera on a porn set where 10 naked guys are switching on 3 hot young teens doing everything they want to them - or siting at a food tasting where all your favorite foods are being served one by one on the table in front of you but you can only look - no touching, no tasting... imagine the frustration, the torture, you wouldnt do that to yourself would you, so why are you torturing yourself by oogling without any possibility to discharge...
  7. {35}

    to 19anon99 and others reading this:

    i went through much of the same stuff as you did 19anon99...

    Sadly, for many long-term addicts, focusing on girls face is sometimes innsuficient to stop erotic fantasies poping in your head or subconscious - PORN infested our long-term memory with countless images of cum faces, bukakke faces, blowjobs and images of deep throat gagging and other practices done to women's faces and lips alone

    - i know from myself, that if i want, i have no problem imagining any pretty face being fucked and raped by a cock, its absolutelly horribble and cynical and iam really not proud of it, but thats what i was feeding my eyes and my mind for past 19 years...

    - the goal is eliminating fantasies - which of course is very very hard once your eyes look at a nice women - i think only a minority of guys with a PORN abuse history can look at a girl and contol fantasies - i know i cant !!! i was watching PORN for 19 years... its all i ever watched since onset of my sexuality since age 13 - now its been first 200 days in my entire life without PORN and i just KNOW i dont have the control of my fantasies...

    the only logical solution that works for me - DONT LOOK UNLESS YOU HAVE TO - i hope that over the course of months and years my long-term memory will forget all the imagery and my brain will rewire itself and someday i will be able to chat with a nice girl without undressing her and imagining her in all sorts of sexual positions...

    until that day - NO LOOKING UNLESS YOU HAVE TO AND STRICTLY NO OOGLING (oogling = intentional checking and scanning of hot girls bodies and faces)


    - i know i fucked up and i had my share of 1.000.000 virtual pussies, now i have to accept the bitter consequences if i want to enjoy real pussies too - iam talking about some day in the future after i fix my fuckup - THERE IS NO HEALTHY WAY TO MIX VIRTUAL/FANTASIZED AND REAL PUSSIES - it may work for few guys but majority of guys will end up as a devastated, frustrated pleasure junkies with depression that are not happy in either reality (the virtual or the real) - yet still many of these pleasure junkies dont even realise they have an addiction - they will tell you its normal to be horny all the time around girls and they will laugh to guys who try to limit sexual fantasizing and daydreaming and call them weirdos, pussies, nuts, etc.

    ACTUAL REAL INTERCOURSE WITH REAL WOMEN IS FANTASTIC AND PROBABLY THE HEALTHIEST THING ON EARTH BOTH FOR YOUR BODY AND PSYCHE - all the substitutions are unhealthy in one way or the other, either for your body or psyche or both...

    Dont listen to people telling you otherwise. It may work for few special guys but for majority only the real thing is healthy, the rest is to be avoided.

    Strive to get as much real thing as you want and as little substitutions as you can.

    At all costs learn to avoid potentiation and arousal when discharge through intercourse with a real women is not readily available.

    Sticking to the above rules for the rest of your man's life and you should be golden.
  8. 19anon99

    19anon99 Guest

    Really good points bbp. I guess one of the tough situations for me is that several of the women who were primary parts of my fantasy life are women who I see on a somewhat regular basis. Women who I know personally. I have been trying to avoid having to see them when possible. But you are correct in just about everything you said.
  9. {36}

    hmm thats a peculiar situation... i know practising NoA is easier for some than others, and shuting yourself in a budhist monastery for 1 year would be the easiest place for anyone to practice NoA for sure, but everyone must at least try to give it their best given everyone's unique circumstances... whatever the complications, you shouldnt give up on NoA beacuse you find it tough... NoA is your best tool to get out of this debilitating addiction...

    rule no. 1 - dont oogle on street and elsewhere... when you HAVE TO INTERACT with the women you mentioned, limit eye sight on their face only, if any fantasies conjure even looking at their face, try any technique known to you to deflect the fantasy (someday i wil try to write up a list of emergency techniques to distract your mind from conjuring fantasies) - you can try to blink, look a little sideways (like you are thinking about what she says), take a deep, long breath into your belly and exhale slowly releasing tensions in your muscles - it takes a bit of practice but i believe everyone will find (sometimes accidently) something that helps a little to distract erotic fantasy and daydreaming - when the girl turns her back to you or when she is walking away from you - never check her ass... when the girl you are with doesnt interact with you - eye to eye - look in different direction or if that would look too strange and distant, just shift your eyes focal point away from her body... this applies only when interaction isnt going on at the moment... if you are just a little bit social creature you will manage with some practice to make all these distracting techniques un-noticable to the other person and you wont be regarded as acting distant or aloof... afterall girls themself dont require man to check their cleavage, body shape or pelvis to make them feel they have a nice chat with you...

    hopefully someday you wont have to do all these secret distraction manoeuvres while talking to a girl... but until that day comes - and i can tell you from my current experience it aint after 200 days - NoA is your best bet to get you safe thorughout the day...

    the good think is that 100% of girls will greatly appreciate that you are THE GUY who doesnt look down on their jugs and jeans when speaking to them...
  10. {37}

    sorry for replying late i must have missed some people's posts

    ItisJ and Messenger77 thanks for support please come back with progress report... i think more guys should at least test the NoA Method for 10 days... especially those guys who post elsewhere in the YBR forum crying they had another bad relapse and they loose hope ever to break the chains...

    nofappin wrote: What about romantic fantasy that is not explicitly sexual?

    well its hard to judge when i dont know what goes on in your fantasy specifically or how far you want to take your fantasy... if its just holding hands, smiling and laughing and strolling through parks or romantic nature its fine with me... but kissing is a sort of a border activity and as soon as it turns to caresing her body or french kissing you are already in the mine-field... if i were you i would take a rest from fantasies for the time of treatment... after all i dont think fantasies are something you NEED in your life... go do the real thing - take her by the hand and go have a walk in the park and make her smile for real... i dont see much need or benefit in fantasizing about women... instead you should do FOR REAL what you fantasize about... i know this might sound patronizing, but really, think about it for a while, arent all fantasies a bit frustrating and sad... arent they about WANTING SOMETHING but not getting it so you have to PLAY A GAME WITH YOUR MIND, pretending you have it - a fantasy...
    Unhooking likes this.
  11. 19anon99

    19anon99 Guest

    Thanks for your words of wisdom bbp...

    I 100% agree that NoA is the best way for me to recover from this. To be honest I am not really looking to reach a time when it is safe for me to fantasize either. That's the thing... I am looking to change the person who I am. When I reach the point (if reaching that point is even possible) when I don't naturally have these thoughts entering my mind I would hope that I wouldn't voluntarily want them entering my mind either. As you said, fantasizing can be a bit sad and frustrating. I have a wonderful wife. I want to have nothing but a fulfilling relationship and sex life with her. I want to live a healthy, full, and active life that doesn't require me to fantasize in order to escape and avoid feelings like I have for so long.
    Unhooking likes this.
  12. {38}

    good luck to you 19anon99... i hope everything works out for you...
  13. {39}


    Not looking on women around you - is a loss, definitelly...

    You will genuinly feel that you've lost great part of your daily pleasure... going through the day without oogling women will make the day feel more boring, emotionally flattened, missing spark and joy... Every cell in your body and brain will want to oogle again to feel alive again and you will hate yourself everytime you pass a woman and dont have a look at her body and face... You will feel like throwing away one of the greatest joys of your everyday life... Its often excruciating pain hitting your deep within, everytime you pass a girl and force yourself to not look...

    BAD THING - most guys are not prepared to loose this pleasure at all, they will try for a while and they will fail… stopping oogling will be TOO MUCH LOSS to give up in their life…

    GOOD THING - you loose something but gain something else

    You loose
    - pleasure (portion of your everyday share of pleasure)
    (You will feel great emotional pain and excruciating physical discomfort from loosing this pleasurable activity, you will feel hopeless and depressed knowing you've lost oogling and the pleasure it gives, for the rest of your life)

    You gain
    (The positive effects are amplyfing gradually, they take time to grow, as your brain is rewiring everyday a little - you must be patient and wait without oogling to gain the benefits)
    - incredible peace of mind and calmness
    - concentration and focus in every aspect of life (giving up oogling is like taking anti-ADHD pills)
    - new taste for life and vigour - more energy and gradual lift in daily mood to previously unknown levels
    - genuine apreciation for brand new hobbies and activities that you ignored and devalued previously
    - gradual improvement and all-new vigour with your current partner (even after years of declining sex drive between you)
    - new self-confidence pouring in gradually - by witnessing yourself day after day and witnessing your own strength and ability to fight anxiety, discomfort, pain - you start to feel generaly "in control" of your sexuality and manhood - you start to face women as equal partners and look them straight in the eye without feeling shame for having dirty and ulterior thoughts to hide from them - you will feel that you are no longer powerless and subconciously subservant when you interact face to face with a charming and beautifull woman that would previously dissarm your willpower - you can stand your ground and you own your sexual instincts and drives - you are in control of your inner man-beast - this realisation alone will give you incredible self-confidence (not in douchebag way - in a manly, independent and empowering way) - you will experience that you know how to be master of your body and instincts in your head - i have control of my inner beastly animal and i hold the leash now - not her - i decide about my sexuality and i control my body and mind - not her - its not being douchebag - its being confident and empowered man who is fully in control of himself even around very beautifull women - man who can face any women as equal partners and not as sexual objects nor as sexual idols - girls love man who can look them straight in the eye and take them for equal partners and not sexual objects or sexual idols - there are many guys who can pretend/fake this mindset to get a women into bed but only a handfull men really geniunelly think like that… such geniune men are very rare and girls feel very good around them...

    What many guys wrongly expect to loose (but they dont)
    - amount of real orgasms with real girls in their life

    I dont believe oogling gets anybody any real action out there - YOU WONT BE MISSING OUT - there are no girls waiting out there and thinking:

    "ohh that guy over there he is sooo oogling my body and give me that hungry look - i hope he will come here and ask me for a date - that would be so cool"


    "ohh i know what, i will dress myself real nice and have great make up done and i will go out in the streets and see if any guys will check my ass and boobs and than i will hopefully get together with him and maybe we can have sex tonight... yeeeey"

    if you dream that oogling girls on street will get you a date someday you are hopeless daydreamer and you will never actually date any real women - to get together with real women and eventually get them to sleep with you involves totally different tactics than oogling her body with your hungry eyes - oogling is not a big turn on for most girls - so stop oogling altogether and stop worrying that you miss a girl on the street that wants to get together with an oogling stranger and sleep with him - its just a dream and things dont start this way - i repeat, stopping oogling won't mean you will have less chances to get the real action with girls - its a popular myth that girls get together with strangers walking by and oogling them on the street…

    In fact, check what professionals on getting the real action, say - the pickup artists - they have a SPECIFIC RULE - its called "3 second rule" - when you spot a nice girl you must APPROACH AND INITIATE INTERACTION with her in less than 3 seconds before your anxiety kicks in and you become tongue-tied and your legs turn into jello...

    Pickup professionals and guys who do get the real girls, never oogle - they go straight into chat - chat is where girls evaluate guys and make decisions and gauge male attractivity by what they say and how they say it and how they look and move when saying it - girls decide whether they like you based on interaction with you not based on oogling - oogling is passive - girls wait and expect active interaction from males - girls hate male passivity… you dont get any girl by any passive activity like oogling... so stop oogling them, they ignore you when you oogle and dont take action... if you want a girl go talk to one and see if your actions will make her like you and date you... iam no dating expert but check any pickup advise forum and you will see the only way to get girls on a date or even a one-night stand after a disco is APPROACH, APROACH, APROACH - oogling is absolutelly NOT REQUIRED to get as much girls as you wish in your life…

    So now you know what you REALLY loose and gain without oogling... the choice is yours... as always with addictions... its your fight... nobody is going to fight it for you...
  14. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    I have to jump in here really quickly and say that when I have gotten fantasy down to nothing I have made huge leaps in improvements of all kinds, this method works.
    Unhooking likes this.
  15. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    Stickied again.
  16. {40}

    thanks again TheUnderdog !!!

    i hope more people will try NoA and give up OOGLING...

    guys, if NoA works for you, say hello so others know...

    cheers everybody and thanks TheUnderdog for having this forum...
  17. goingforward

    goingforward Keep calm and carry on!


    good idea with that no arousal and giving up oogling, but do you think that possible is to stop oogling forever and to never do it again?

    i began trying it few days ago and it's really really hard
  18. {41}

    goingforward> thanks for the question...

    The harder it is for you to stop oogling the more addicted to dopamine your pleasure centers were. If stopping oogling is really hard you know you really have a serious dopamine addiction in your brain that is controlling you at this very moment. You crave dopamine and pleasure so much that you feel physical pain and great emotional frustration when you decide to not get your fix (to oogle) when its available (a passing woman). Thats a textbook behaviour dependance and addiction.

    Stopping oogling forever... Well, lets break it down a little bit:

    For PORN users who attempt NoPMO nothing is more beneficial to your brain that stopping oogling and starting No Arousal protocol for the full duration of your treatment or until you brain rewires - this may take months to years but IMHO stopping oogling is ABSOLUTE NECESSITY for PORN users to succeed in brain rewiring and thus breaking from addicition... after the rewiring is done you may choose again...

    For the so called normal guys, who dont use PORN, stopping oogling is healthy in a different way than strictly brain rewiring - it is healthy because it stops their system from potentiating without any discharge (orgasm) at hand... getting dopamine and pleasure kick in your brain from oogling is sure nice but this dopamine kick means you want more - dopamine is a motivating "wanting" signal in your head... before you know it one look leads to another and another and another and you are horny, overloaded with charge and needing RELEASE... but its not coming from anywhere... remember you are on street or in shopping mall not in bed with a woman... this constant charging of your pleasure and reward system in non-sexual situations where RELEASE is not possible is very frustrating and unnerving - talk about the recent US epidemic of teenage ADHD... these guys need to stop stimulating their brains so much with oogling and PORN or both...

    Remember oogling is not having sex, so yeah you can get away without oogling for the rest of your life and still have PLENTY of sex if you know how to attract women... as i said elsewhere... women will have sex with you if they find you attractive physically and emotionally... it doesnt have to do anything with whether you oogle them or not... they couldnt care less...

  19. DeterminedNow

    DeterminedNow New Member

    Hey Big Book: A huge and unqualified "thank you" for the time and energy you've taken to share your helpful thoughts with the rest of us. You've clearly done a lot of research on the topic. That, coupled with sharing your personal experiences in the past 9 months or so, makes for a very informative, hopeful, and inspiring path to recovery. I'm very new to this, but, thanks to your No Arousal "manual", I feel like I have the understanding of my addiction and the tools necessary to have a great shot at staying in recovery. One day at a time, indeed, but I'm determined.

    It's been said that "The obsessive pursuit of pleasure will never lead to happiness."

    Most addictions (drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, porn, food, money, shopping) are really all about being addicted to the primal (and often intense) pleasure that stimulating dopamine in our brain creates. Without understanding that reality, all of us addicts are clueless on how to approach and conquer our disease.

    In the spirit of your "Big Book" profile name, Bill Wilson would truly admire the service you're providing in helping struggling porn addicts find a healthy, satisfying life in recovery.

    Bravo. Determined NOW
  20. {42}

    thanks for the kind words... i hope the "manual" will be of help to you... be sure to understand that knowledge can take you only so far... but practice makes perfect... so practice NoA and hopefully you shell see results...
    ronkumar likes this.

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