The "No Arousal" Method - Celibacy of Body AND Mind

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

What I mean to say is no sex and porn before marriage is fine .. But no masturbation before marriage is too harsh a rule .. Sexual instinct is a natural inbuilt instinct too powerful to ignore ..it needs to have outlet.. In the western world a bachelor can have outlet in the form of a girlfriend even before marriage .. Whereas here I can't fap and I can't fuck either( by religion and by my addiction induced Ed) so what am I supposed to do .. By the way I am from India and I have tried to observe brahmacharya .. It's too hard ..to be a good brahmachari like the guy who wrote the book mentioned involves a serious lifestyle change where you start by giving up all your worldly possessions to focus your mind on learning .. Thats how the geniuses of yore invented yoga ,algebra and other stuff,they were totally focused..People were doing this till about 40 years ago , but with modernization and the coming of high speed Internet and stuff all this went down the drain and most people don't even know about celibacy , brahmacharya etc today .. Take me for example , I am so hooked to porn that I forget about everything else once I start a binge session ..it is killing me..

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{10}

i agree with you... to grow up with both Masturbation and Real Sex forbidden unless you marry a girl can be VERY TOUGH for most western man, including me... i cant imagine marrying my first sexual partner or the second or third the No Masturbation rule is literally forcing you into marriage if you want to release the built-up tension... i agree brahmacharya is a form of life-long celibacy so unless you want to renounce all sex for the rest of your life and become a real monk... brahmacharya is not really for you... NoA is like a temporary (time limited) brahmacharya for 3-12 months after which you return to standard sex life with real women... anyway its too late to analyse eastern societies when you already are porn adict... i think if you are porn addicted - for any reason - societal or personal i would advise you start practicing NoA for 3-12 months and after you get rid of PORN addiction which is enemy #1... given your restrictive society and probably a lack of any willing girls to have sex without marriage you have 3 options after finishing NoA recovery period and hopefully getting rid of the porn addiction in first place:

1) stay celibate and find a woman to marry (NO PORN, NO MASTURBATION for the rest of life)
2) masturbate without porn only using imagination/fantasy and touching yourself sensualy towards orgasm and ejaculation... meanwhile look for a woman to marry (NO PORN for the rest of life) - before invention of photography in 1850's and cinema around 1900's all man had to masturbate to a fantasy (drawn women acts were not common and neither realistic enough to cause havoc to brain or addiction)
3) masturbate without porn only using imagination/fantasy and touching yourself sensualy towards orgasm and ejaculation... meanwhile visit brothels (yes even in India there must be brothels) to release with Real Sex with real women instead of resorting to enemy #1 (NO PORN for the rest of life)

i understand brothels are evil in its own right AND I DONT ADVICE ANYONE TO USE BROTHELS but at least you cant binge for 4 hours in a brothel because generaly you pay around 200 bucks for 30 minutes with a woman so you naturally want to fuck her and cum... after ejaculating 80% of man can stay without sex for couple of days to weeks with no significant frustration... yes every guy would want to fuck every day but the point is that after releasing in brothel you can go on with your life for few days or weeks... if you are poor or have any moral issues to use brothels (AS I DO) use masturbation instead (even when its forbidden if you cant stay celibate) but never resort to enemy #1...

The evilness or PORN vs MASTURBATION ONLY TO YOUR FANTASY is about 80:20

thats all i can help you in regards to NoA and how you can use it in your case... the rest you have to figure out within your spcific situation and society enviroinment... its not perfect advice but nothing is perfect in porn addicts life... there is no magic bullet that would not give you addiction yet give you all the sex you want...

I REPEAT THAT I DO NOT ADVICE ANYONE TO USE BROTHELS OR PROSTITUTES. These activities bring a host of other problems into you psyche that are equally problematic to porn use. I personaly never did in my 32 yrs of age use brothel or prostitute so i cant speak about it. Lets stay focused on our main problem - porn addiction and how to get rid of it once you have it. How did you get your porn addiction is not really relevant. There is only very limited number of ways how to get rid of it once you have it and i believe NoA is the best way to get rid of it.

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

Yep, this is why i think NoA could become very important, to avoid any potential triggers at our most vulnerable times. Going through the flatline period wasn't too bad (for me, this was Day 10-42) , but when the natural libido starts to re-appear we don't want too many triggers! Well I don't anyway, so that's why this near monk-like existence could become a great tool in helping the brain re-balance during the difficult times. That doesn't necessarily mean hiding yourself from society and living in the woods; just taking a different mindset when seeing beautiful girls on the street, treating them like human beings first and foremost and practising a disciplined mind.

I agree with your point about counters too - that's why a few guys here are utilising the spreadsheet journals. My counter might look impressive right now, but doesn't tell the full story. I started Nofap in early July, with my first streak being 37 days into mid-August, but after relapsing on Day 37 i had another 8 relapses in the 30 days after this! That's good though, because i learnt so much during those relapses and pretty much came to the same conclusion as you (ie NoA). Even during the first 37 day streak i was still peeking at porn some days without fapping, so i was capable of relapsing at any time. This current streak feels different however. I haven't peeked at porn since September, and feel absolutely no desire to do this now.

I'm laughing now reading this - not at you, but because I can totally relate to this mindset. When I used the word 'radar' in my post, this was pretty much what i was implying - that our porn addicted brains become hyper-sensitive in identifying any sexy girls on the street within 200 metres, maybe even more! It's amazing how we almost have a 6th sense for this, with hundreds of people in our vicinity on a busy street, yet we see only one beautiful woman in the crowd and even go so far as moving closer to her just to get a good glimpse, only to be too chicken to approach.

I feel a sense of shame about all the perving i've done with creepy predator eyes, but it's time to move on and become a gentleman both in actions and thoughts, and treat women as human beings. For the first time I feel I can look at a beautiful woman without mentally undressing her.

It's great that you have an understanding girlfriend too. This should help you more quickly re-balance your brain to associate sexual feelings and thoughts with a real woman in a loving relationship rather than cold, de-humanising porn.

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{11}

Thanks for the supporting words... i guess we all agree on this thread to higher or lower degree that temporary NoA could fix your brain and give it less triggers to fall into relapse... me personally iam a devote believer in NoA...

now i do have a considerate girlfriend but right now she is really pissed that i write these looooong essays on the forum (it takes me really long and many edits to write each) and dont watch TV with her, cook dinner or go to town i guess without her i would be a grafomaniac hermit living on internet discussion forums ... so i must give myself some break...

officialy i hereby declare that ill be reading any replies should someone post any because i love your feedback and ideas guys, but i will write back to all of you in 10 days from now (17th Nov)... these breaks were my plan from the begining and they are an integral part of NoA... i promised myself i will not overanalyze the addiction which iam doing just now by thinking what to answer to all of you... so ill take a break from all the "thinking" about PORN addiction and come back again after 10-14 days to post my new findings and progress in NoA... please dont take this as being cocky or not wanting to talk with you all (you are like my new brotherhood) but talking about ice-cream makes me want to eat ice-cream you know what i mean...

Hopefully my counter will read 33 when you hear from me again...

keep YOUR progress and ideas related to NoA coming...

see ya and GOOD LUCK EVERYONE

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{12}

Hi guys reporting back after 32 days of NoA and still going strong... did i mention iam living in London Soho the whole time ? Iam on a 4 months stay since October. Around my flat is the red light district of London with sex shops, bookshops, disco bars everywhere and some of the coolest and cutest chicks walking down the streets... Especially on Friday and Saturday most of the chicks on the streets and outside the local disco clubs are like 8/10 models... Gooood training for NoA because i avoid looking on girls on the street - not even a peek. In the last 32 days i became a master in walking down the street and consciously not noticing girls and looking other way. If a girl steps into my view i quickly shift my eyes elsewhere. Its extreme for many guys here but its how you dont arouse your craving center - thats why its called NoA - No Arousal - and keep your dopamine levels stable (dopamine is the main neurotransmiter responsible for anticipation and focus on pleasurable/rewarding cues aka cravings - all addicted people have dopamine oversensitivity)

Anyway its all explained in previous posts, here just adding few new observations to my previous NoA recommendations:

1) By completely avoiding arousal of my brain's reward/pleasure circuits (physical body stimulation, visual cues, mental imagery) i noticed i gained a lot of control over my other addictions and compulsive obsessions... i can now limit many other activities which arouse dopamine reward/pleasure circuitry and which were bothering me because they interfere with my health and are at the foundation of my poor social life... i guess these are all bundled together and driven by dopamine (in my case they evolved from harmless activities to full on addictions and compulsions)

- computer addiction (compulsively re-checking and fiddling with my laptop and main computer despite there is nothing important to do)
- internet addiction (compulsively re-checking my mail, skype and online forum threads for replies and reading unimportant blogs online)
- fat and sugery foods addiction (i already knew i often use high calorie food (fat, sugar, high carb) for comforting and anxiety reduction but now i almost ruled out sugery food and most of the worst fat offenders (french fries, mayonaisse, cream, deep fried)
- alcohol consumption (i dont consume any alcohol at home (beer, wine) - only outside home in social gatherings)
- compulsive TV watching (iam trying to limit passively watching TV every evening and do something more active and creative)

The real challenge of NoA is to limit ALL DOPAMINE AROUSING ACTIVITIES for TEMPORARY PERIOD OF 3-6 MONTHS... as if you moved into monastery... Basically iam trying to give my brain's reward/pleasure centers proper monk detox - like being in a himalayan monastery...

- NO COMPUTER
- NO INTERNET
- NO HIGH CALORIE JUNK FOOD AND SWEETS
- NO ALCOHOL
- NO TV

And of course as ussual:
- NO PORN
- NO MASTURBATION
- NO ORGASM (except 1-2 a month Real Sex with my girlfiend to keep her cool and sane)

I feel like i gain more control over all the above compulsions with each new day of NoA !!! I feel like iam training my dopamine system that modulates cravings, reward and pleasure... I hope that by the day 90-180 i will have mental super powers and total control over my urges and cravings towards the above listed addictions and compulsions...

2) Another mental concept that helped me along while doing NoA to avoid MASTURBATION - hopefully for the rest of my life:

"You are not to touch your penis erotically for the rest of your life - its only for girls"

This means you can piss, you can wash your cock in shower, but from now on, for the rest of your life, only girls can PLAY WITH YOUR COCK or touch it erotically. This gives me this hightened peace of mind inside my own body. I know i physcially own the cock, its part of my body, but its designed for girls - to put in their mouth, pussy, ass - to let them play with it to savor it. ITS NOT FOR ME. Just like girls pussies are there for me to savor. For my cock to penetrate and join together. This mental concept helps me add another layer of control and reasoning to avoid sudden urges to "rub one out" with my hand. This flesh is not meant FOR ME its FOR GIRLS ONLY. The extra benefit of this little mental trick is that it adds value to my dick and real sex with real women and kinda makes the masturbation look even more sad and inadequate. THIS COCK IS ONLY FOR THE REAL GIRLS, no fooling around Sounds lame but after 19 years of self-loathing over my porn addiction and shame its nice to get some pride back into your sexuality and your body self-image.

3) Another mental trick i play with my addicted monkey brain to keep it from going crazy and totally freak out on me. I tell my subconsious that this extreme and painfull NoA - full monk regime - IS ONLY FOR 3 MONTHS, and after 3 months i can return back to oogling girls on the street and enjoying views of beautifull chicks asses (NO PORN OR MASTURBATION THOUGH THATS FORBIDDEN FOREVER). The mental trick is that after 19 years of PORN ADDICTION my totally addicted brain would probably freak out and start to play all kinds of sabotage tricks if id say to myself i wont allow myself to look at women on streets for 6-12 months (yeah thats a scientific minimum to change your brain permanently). The reasoning is that its easier to withstand 3 months of extreme pain than 6 or 12. The thing i DO NOT tell my brain is that i believe that after 3 months of extreme NoA my brain will be so much recovered and normalised that i will be able to go another 3 months with much less frustaration and pain. And after 6 months my brain will be so much rewired that it will be very easy to stretch it to 1 year. So even though iam going for 1 year i only tell my brain not to worry that much its only for next 3 months and than everything will go back to ussual. Its a small trick but these small mental tricks add up...

SEE YOU AGAIN AT 30.11.2013. This is a neat trick to limit internet addiction/compulsion of re-checking mail and internet forums every day... i allow myself to check this forum only every 14 days at a specific date. Until than i dont come here or have any notifications send to my email. On 30.11.2013 i come here and check everything i want and reply, etc.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{13}

Today i realised 2 things that might be obvious to many members but not everybody.

1) Most people here are not porn addicted but sex addicted.
2) Porn use is just a manifestation or outlet of this much bigger and serious addiction that only abstinence (NoArousal) can fix over time

Let me explain.

For most members brains, sexual stimulation and orgasm are the most pleasurable things in our lives. Nothing can beat these two. We had so much sexual stimulation and orgasms during masturbation sessions and real sex that our brain's pleasure centers are wired to recieve most pleasure from sexual stimulation or orgasm and anything related. The brain and thus we literally cant feel more pleasure doing anything else other than sexual stimulation and orgasm - not even remotelly close in pleasure intensity - even very tasty food feels like mere 30-50% intensity of a good masturbation and orgasm. Our brains became sex addicted through years of constant reinforcement and very strong dosage. 90% of people here have brains addicted to sex (sexual stimulation and orgasm) not porn. Stoping porn will thus help only partially, but it will not undo the years of damage made to your brain's pleasure center - you will still feel ABNORMAL craving for sexual stimulation and orgasm and anything related for the rest of your life - there is nothing on earth more pleasurable than those two for us. Thats how you trained and sculpted your brain's plasticity from years of reinforcement.

NoArousal becomes an interesting experiment on brain's primal, neuronal plasticity level. If the brain can physically rewire (change plasticity - forget old habits and learn brand new). By temporarily removing all sex related stimuli real or virtual from entering your consciousness and activating pleasure center there is a great chance the brain will SLOWLY rewire - it will slowly forget and change its plasticity. Remember it takes years to make your brain addicted to sexual stimulation and orgasm (and all things related) so its logical unwiring or untraining may also take a year or more - all you can do is wait - there is no 30 days magic trick to undo years of training and sculpting your brains pleasure centers. However the impact of this gradual change can be extreme on deep psychological level. By definition you are removing the most pleasurable thing your brain knows in your life so far and giving the brain a chance to forget, reshape and start to like new things. Your brain may figure out a whole new pleasurable activities even a new meaning or purpose of life - there is a chance your brain will use the pleasure capacity freed up from sex and things related and use it to feel more pleasure pursuing other goals and motivations instead of constantly thinking how to get laid or masturbate to orgasm. Life can be so much more than sexual stimulation and orgasm but a sex addicted brain was trained for years to gradually feel sexual stimulation and orgasm as something so pleasurable it cant be matched by anything else in life - not even close.

Here is the main difference between healthy male's brain and sex addicted male's brain. Healthy male's brain still feels intensive pleasure from sex as is natural but sex addicted brain had so much orgasms and masturbation sessions in past years it is literally trained and wired over the time to feel 2x more pleasure from sex stimulation and orgasm than normal healthy male. Hardcore porn and the exposure to 1000's of virtual partners over the years literally wired your brain pleasure center to become extremly hyper aroused by one thing only - sex. Over the years of over-stimulating your brain it became addicted to sexual stimulation not porn. Porn only helped your brain to become hyper active towards single type of stimuli over anything else in your life. There is nothing as intensivly pleasurable to your brain as sexual stimulation and orgasm. You trained it that way over the years by spending the total hours of masturbation and orgasming with 1000's of virtual female partners.

In extreme cases sexual stimulation and orgasm are so much more pleasurable than any other things in life that sexual stimulation becomes the whole purpose and motivation of persons life and everything he does or thinks (consciously or subconsciously) with little space for anything else. Porn use is just a manifestation or outlet of this much bigger problem - your brain is completely obsessed and addicted to sexual stimulation and orgasm and everything related to these two things. Removing porn doesnt solve the underlying problem in your brain's neuronal structure. Removing porn doesnt change what your brain has physcially become over the years. Only time and temporary abstinence from all sexual stimulation (real / virtual / imagined) can give your brain the required time-out to slowly forget and rewire back to normal levels of excitement about sex related things. Brain is changing its plasticity on neuronal level every second - we call it learning and forgeting. You cannot rush this rewire / forgeting proccess taking place on neuronal level. Its very slow but constant. You can only wait until your brain changes itself given enough time. Thats why 3-12 months of NoArousal is the only way how to partially undo your brain's addiction to sexual stimulation and orgasm and become normal guy again, who is not obsessed by one thing only all his life - sexual stimulation and orgasm. They are fine and very desirable by nature, but they cannot take up 85% of your brains pleasure capacity and daily thoughts.

I spent 19 years training my brain daily to feel most pleasure from sexual stimulation and orgasm until these two things became the only things i ever think about in my life (consciously or unconsciously). The pleasure generated in my brain from these two things is incomparable to anything else in my life. They slowly became my motivation and purpose of life itself - to get laid or stimulate myself and have an orgasm. My brain is totally addicted to sexual stimulation and orgasm and all things related.

To give my brain's pleasure center a chance to forget and rewire back to normal i set my goal to 365 days of NoArousal - that is 365 days of avoiding all sexual stimulation (real, virtual, imagined) and any sexual cues (visual, sound, thoughts) entering my consciousnes. I only allow myself to have 1-2 times per month (every 14-30 days) Real Sex with or without orgasm with my long-time girlfriend i live with, to keep her from going insane and break-up with me.

If you think 365 days of NoArousal is too much to put your brain thorugh i can only say its 5.3% of the time (19 years) i spent training my brain daily to feel most pleasure from sexual stimulation and orgasm. I believe your brain deserves 5.3% of rest and time-out from all sex related stimuli and cues after 19 years of heavy-duty training to feel pleasure from these.

Calculate your 5% of NoArousal time-out compared to the years you spent training your brain with sexual stimulation and orgasms.

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{14}

THIS IS CLASSIC !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c_RIm9ZMN1I

This guys sums up all ive been saying in this thread (he even uses quite similar fMRI images) in a perfect presentation on neurobiological causes of sex and porn addiction in our brains and even adds very interesting findings about The Coolidge Effect. NoAarousal or a temporary abstinence from all sexual stimulation and cues (real, virtual, imagined) is just a way to fast-track or speedup the neural plasticity reversal process this guy calls NEUROCHEMICAL REBIRTH.

The only thing this guy doesnt say but what other scientists experimentally proved and what i refer to in this thread from the begining is that human brain can react to virtual images (cues) of a addictive substance or activity the same way like getting the real thing. So thats why NoArousal is more than beneficial - its crucial in succesfull brain recovery from addiction. You must temporarily limit all cues (virtual or imagined in your fantasy) of the addictive activity or substance to help your brain recover (essentialy forget and rewrite) faster and more deeply. Its all explained in detail in my previous posts on this thread.

As previously, i abstain from over-thinking and over-analyzing my addiction on internet forums for next 14 days. See you on 14th December guys and may the force be with you all. If you have any comments post them and ill make sure ill answer you on 14th December when ill visit you guys again. This limited visits here (only once every 14 days for 24 hours) is my way to not think and ruminate about porn addiction too much and prevent relativisation and possible relapse.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{15}

BUMP - BI-WEEKLY UPDATE

Still going Just my bi-weekly visit to YBR and a little update... ill come back again on 27th December before going to new-year holidays (Brighton UK sea and hotel at the pier, on new year eve - hope its gonna be magical)... keeping the visits to sex help forums to twice a month is a plan to avoid too much rumination and over-thinking of the addiction... talking about it wont solve it anyway and keeping your head burried in the problem is not good...

61 days of NoA
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61 days no PMO (Porn or Masturbation with or without Orgasm)
24 days without RS (Real Sex with my girlfiend with or without Orgasm)

I am also kindle-reading this self-help book recomended by TheUnderdog on this big thread:
THREAD LINK: http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=15558.0
BOOK RECOMMENDED: http://www.amazon.com/Slight-Edge-Turning-Disciplines-Happiness-ebook/dp/B00GDKN3T6/

The book is about a simple concept:

Do a little every day, BE CONSISTENT and let the time do the rest... Its a snowball effect... Given enought time you can achieve anything... Little by little you can become fit, healthy, learn new skills, develop succesfull bussinesses - brick by brick every day, you can build a 4 story house - it like LEGO - but most people believe instead in a "quantum leaps", big breaks and a magic bullet - if only they give it everything for a little time they will break through - its not how life and success works... this book is a "anti-quantum leap manifesto" - success is the visible result (the mountain top) of an invisible row of small steps you have been doing for long time every day, before the success become visible or tangible to others... the people around you than ussualy fall for the quantum-leap explanation and ask quations like: What was the most important think you did to achieve XY or become XY... but thats the wrong view in 21st century society... you didnt make any big leap... you just made 5.000 little steps daily for 5 years and this is the COMPOUND RESULT...

The book is an interesting addition to the discussion on the thread and on this forum in general... Succesfully breaking porn addiction or changing your life doesnt come in big exhaustive pushes that are painfull and quick. That is the quantum-leap or big-break myth our society loves so much. That is the diet myth. If you only abstain from carbs for 3 months you will be golden. In fact its about a SUSTAINED and CONSISTENT row of little everyday choices (good or bad) done in past without much thinking, that build up over time to become who you are today. These little everyday choices are very easy to miss because they dont have any visible result on their own but done consistently EVERY DAY thay can become enormous. Like eating these chips or this hamburger. If you eat it today or dont eat it today either way it wont make any visible result. But diet of these and similar junk food SUSTAINED DAILY for 2 years will make you obese and in very bad health state. But it wasnt any single 1 burger you ate that did this - every single burger was harmless on its own. It was the compound effect of 2 years eating this. Brick by brick, burger by burger you become fat and sluggish. It works the other way same. Correct SMALL choices every day doesnt magically improve you in 90 days but in 2 years you will be a new person and everybody else will try to figure out what magic bullet or quantum-leap you used to become this fit and shining guy. But only 5% of them will be able to graps the truth that you didnt do anything big or important in last 3 months or so, there wasnt any BIG PUSH THAT WAS REALLY TOUGHT BUT YOU PREVEILED, instead you were making very small ALMOST INVISBLE small steps for last 2 years and this is how it added to how you look today.

A funny parallel is the famous Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and his words "One small step for man, a giant leap for mankind". Well thats the society mesmerized by the myth of big-break, the quantum-leap, the heroic last push that breaks through. In fact that moment of heroic landing on the moon was a shining visible mountain top of success that was the compound effect of several decades of small daily success and failures that nobody will see CONSISTENTLY buidling one after another until after several decades of these little daily steps a human stepped on the surface of the distant planet. 95% of people loves the myth but are not ready to realise the preceding several decades of daily consistent work that lead to the famous almost mythical moment of landing. In fact it wasnt neither "one small step" nor "giant leap" however magical quote Armstong's words are and i love them. But it wouldnt sound so nice would he say "Well after 40 years of daily work we got here, finally". But thats preciesly what happened in reality. Decades of daily small steps and in the end you can achieve however enormous tasks - even landing on the moon.

Thanks again TheUnderdog for pointing out this book on his thread: http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=15558.0

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

I'm going to try this as well.

The place I have a problem is when I wake up. I routinely fapped soon after waking up in the morning. I ALWAYS fantasize in the morning. It goes away if I get up though... which can be difficult if I'm tired, so I get that warm feeling inside and I'm ready to PMO.

During the day it's easy, I'm busy enough to keep my mind off it.

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

I have been having my best success yet and feel the most balanced by adopting a mindset of no sexual arousal at all. Peeking delays recovery. Thinking about sex delays recovery. I feel that now. I am in a place where I push any sexual thought out of my mind instantly. Its working well.

The one area that is difficult is my girlfriend. I cannot avoid arousal with her completely, nor do I think I should. That would be the opposite of what I am trying to achieve. But I have chosen the times I allow this more carefully and less frequently, being extra vigilant that no outside thoughts of porn or sex intrude. It is her and me in the room, no one else!

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{16}

ITS_ALL_OGRE_NOW: i never fapped in the morning myself, everybody has different day cycles of hormones - although i get a nice morning wood every day iam too tired for that until i get some good breakfast and some time for the body to fully wake up and get my passion and lust revved up - ussually more like afternoon for me ) you have to find your way to fight these morning fantasies... everybody's different what works for one doesnt work for other...

what works for me:

- sense your pelvic floor and penis, trunk and heart and breath into these 3 regions... keep doing the sensing and breathing until your fantasies wanish - this may take 20-40 seconds or more - this works for me as a way to calm myself and get my attention out of my head where all the porn fantasies are showing on a big screen and shift my awarness to my body below neck... you may try this after you wake up and porn starts to play in your head... shift your awarness out of your head into your body below neck and stay there for some time breathing into your body...

BadOnion: if you have no problem getting rid of fantasies instantly you may be a lucky one... i sure have problems here and there and have to try hard to get them out of my head... NoArousal helps me tremendously - by looking away from girls on street or in magazines and ads i eliminate most triggers which would sparkle fantasies... the fact that MY EYES DONT SEE those hot women (real or pictured) saves me tremendous amount of psychic energy that i would have to use to fight all fantasies about those women my eyes saw...

about girlfriends thats tricky - thats why i have 2 counters (PMO + RS with my girlfriend) - what i did most importantly is TELL YOUR PARTNER that you are practicing NoArousal - hopefully she will understand that you have a problem/addiction and you are activelly trying to get rid of it (thats positive news) and if she loves you, she should understand that her lover is in pain because of the addcition and the recovery will improve sexual and love life for both of you in the end (100 TIMES)... you are trying to be a better man, thats good... my girlfriend understood and we have sex only once every 14 days for the duration of my recovery (suprisingly now i have 36 days without RS but thats mainly because we had horrible influenza both for like 10 days and before parents visited so its rather a coincidence than a planed abstinence)... when you have sex with your partner once every 14 days go for it 100%... enjoy !!! i never had fantasies of different women when having RS with a girl... i find the real girl satysfing enought to bother creating fantasies of different women... i guess iam lucky

Take.Control.Back: good for you i couldnt handle being on NoA and having all the young and beautifull teens hoping up and down the streets of London... i had to check the body of every single one... even just seeing their teenage face poped wild blow-job scenes into my head which i spent great deal of psychic energy getting rid off... its just not worth it... why tease the DEVIL... and my addict brain is a hell of a DEVIL - i know i dont have complete control over my addict brain at this moment so i feel i shouldnt play with fire... and all those sexy girls on the street and in lingerie ads and fashion magazines are like match sticks ready to fire up my brain... i hope this extreme flammability of my pleasure centers will subside over time and i will be able to live normal life again...

IF I LEARNED ONE THING ON THIS FORUM, THAT EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND THERE IS NO SINGLE CORRECT WAY TO GET RID OFF THIS ADDICTION - WHAT 100% WORKS FOR ONE, WILL NOT WORK FOR OTHER - TRYING TO PREACH ONE APPROACH OVER OTHER IS AWFULL WASTE OF TIME - EVERYONE NEEDS DIFFERENT APPROACH - EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{17}

my motto from now on is this:

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND THERE IS NO SINGLE CORRECT WAY TO GET RID OFF THIS ADDICTION - WHAT 100% WORKS FOR ONE, WILL NOT WORK FOR OTHER - TRYING TO PREACH ONE APPROACH OVER OTHER IS AWFULL WASTE OF TIME - EVERYONE NEEDS DIFFERENT APPROACH - EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT

this being said i will keep an upgraded list of things that help ME to fight this addiction… true to the motto i dont know if the listed methods will work for YOU or anyone else for that matter… all i can testify is they work for ME… also true to the motto i wont argue with anyone if mine or their method is corect or not (not in this thread or anyone else's thread)… read the motto and you will save yourself a ton of time and disillusion… if a method works for someone else good for them… if it doesnt work for them… read the motto

i plan to write and update a list of things that work for ME… you may disagree or a complete opposite may work for YOU or a friend of yours, but i know these do work for ME… all listed here is for informational purposes and may not work for YOU…

NoA METHODS, TOOLS & FAQ

1) NoA

i believe NoA is the single most important thing… read the first page of this thread for detailed explanation and some replies to other member's posts… here i would emphesize what helps me the most and that is the "curious practice" of not looking at girls (real or pictured) thorughout the day - immediatelly look away when you see a nice girl on street, in magazine, in advert, on internet, on TV, etc. this is a TEMPORARY measure until your brain pleasure centers become less active (this may take months to over a year). NoA also includes limiting RS (Real Sex) with your girlfriend to 1x every 14 days or less, for the duration of the recovery

2) Neurophysical background

there are many concepts how addictions happen and how they are maintained or eradicated… my favourite and i believe one that makes me keep going long term is explaining addiction as a disbalance in neurochemical processes over a long period of time… this theory involves natural chemicals (neurotransmitters) like dopamine and serotonin released in specific brain regions… by subscribing to this neurochemical theory i believe that whatever became out of balance over a long period of time, can be reversed to correct balance given enough time… human brain and body has natural capacity to repair itself to a state of balance/equilibrium, if we give it proper conditions to heal… first we must identify what caused the neurochemical disbalance (PORN and EXCESSIVE MASTURBATION) and when we remove these things and give brain a long enough break from these stimulants, it will readjust back to healthy balance - this of course means that returning the disbalancing stimulants back in place will derail the brain again… many of the fMRI images in the first posts of this thread prove this theory of disbalance and "returning to balance"

3) Heroin analogy

the fMRI images clearly show that porn addiction manifests as powerfully inside your brain as heroin addiction… this analogy with the most lethal of all drugs - HEROIN - hited home very powerfully for me… this is no giggly erotica and teenage past time - PORN is as serious as the drug that ruins lifes in matter of months and takes months of very elaborate substitute (methadone) therapy to get rid off…

4) Counter and wall calendar

there is a big discussion about using counters vs spreadsheets and specific methods how to fill your spreadsheets and true to my motto i wont comment or argue for or against any of that or take sides… instead i will tell you what i use and what do work for ME… if it doesnt work for you thats because you are different than me if a complete opposite works for you… read the motto

I use PMO counter and RS counter - PMO is you classic counter and RS counter is just an informative counter how long was it that i had Real Sex with my girlfriend - true to NoA i try to limit RS to once every 14 days or less for the duration of my recovery.

I agree with TheUnderdog that relying on counters as the ONLY progress evaluation tool is limited because when you reset counter to 0 you loose track how many days you have been succesfull in beating the addiction. For example if you would do 30 days streak than reset to 0. Than 20 days streak and reset to 0. Than 30 days streak and reset to 0. At the end your counter would say 0 but instead it should say 80 days without PMO with 3 mishaps in 80 days - thats a proud achievment. But the counter says 0.

So i do use counter but i also use wall calendar to see the "big picture" with all the succesfull past days. Here is a photo of it.

photo of my wall calendar - SEE ATTACHMENT AT THE END OF MESSAGE

Now true to my motto i tell you all this because it works for ME… if it doesnt work for you or in fact an exact opposite will work for you… read the motto.

My wall calednar so far is A3 with 6 months. It hangs aside my toilet in a bathroom where i go several times a day and where i see it first thing in morning last thing before bed. When i fill the 6 months i will print next 6 months and put them side-by-side so i will see all 12 months.

I put RED X for every day without PMO. I put BLACK X for every relapse. If i relapse 2x in a day i put 2 smaller BLACK X in that day box. If i would relapse 6 times in one day i would cram 6 little BLACK X in that day box. This way there is no excuse for binging. Every relapse is acounted for… even if its in one day (a binge).

I didnt relapse yet since i first came to YBR and started my first counter (in October) but iam prepared this might happen and this is what i will do: i will reset my counter to 0 and mark a big BLACK X on my wall calendar and than carry on. My counter will start from 0 but my wall calednar will show one BLACK X in a forrest of RED Xs… thats something i can live with… and i will see a reasuring forrest of RED Xs that will make me proud and not stress too much about that single BLACK X in the middle of the sea of RED Xs…

thats what works for ME so far… and true to the motto i dont know if it will work for anyone else or not and i wont argue with anyone who's working method differs because we are all different so why shouldnt our approaches differ…

I can say that a long streak on a counter makes me feel PROUD and MOTIVATES me to not break such a good streak… thats how my psyche works yours may work differently…

Also seeing physical RED Xs on a wall calendar again makes me proud as the forrest of RED Xs grows and becomes mighty large… this MOTIVATES me not to spoil such a good looking red forrest… i imagine having 12 months on two A3 side-by-side with all the RED Xs will be a marvelous sense of achievement that iam trully looking forward to…


5) Realistic time frame

Now with all the RED Xs and counters one might get lost and think that counters and streaks are all that matter… In fact counters, spreadsheets, wall calendars and streaks are only a way to keep track of the most important process that takes place inside your brain and it was outlined in point no. 2 (Neurophysical background) - the theory says that your brain neurochemistry is disbalanced… it took several months or several years to disbalance it - now when you removed the stimulus (PORN, EXCESIVE MASTURBATION) the brain will take some time to rebalance itself.

Now i have a very crude theory on this. But it puts streaks and counters in perspective. This theory may be total bullshit and true to the motto it may not work for you at all. But for ME it opened my eyes and gave me a totally new pespective on recovery so thats why i write it here - for informational purpose.

Count how many days since you started using porn regulary.
I used porn regulary for last 19 years (iam 32 now and started in early teens)
19 * 365 = 6935 days

Now imagine any complex piece of organism like human body how long it takes to change. The popuar myth is that 90 days streak will heal you. So lets compare in percentage to get a perspective.
90 days is 1.3% of 6935 days.

Subscribing to the Neurophysical background (point no. 2) after 90 days streak you acomplished a mere 1.3% re-balance in brain's neurochemistry that took 6935 days of abuse to dis-balance. For such a complex organism like human brain 1.3% change is almost on a scale of statistical error. Anything below 5% is like picking one grass straw when you should be mowing an acre of garden.

I think you get the picture… to change something that took 6935 days to go awry you will need much more than 90 days or 1.3% of recovery to get rid of the damage done...

WE ARE TALKING YEARS HERE NOT DAYS !!!

So forget 90 days streaks… In fact forget any streaks Streaks are nice motivation but you will need plenty of good streaks chained together to get rid of this addiction.

My current goal is AT LEAST 5% recovery to begin with… 5% of 6935 days is 346 days.


6) Creating a new life "vision" after porn

(thanks to TheUnderdog for nicely describing what i was feeling inside since day 1 but couldnt express it well until i read his thread which is very inspirational although not everything said in the thread works for me... true to my motto

To paraphrase myself and my own lenghty posts from TheUnderdog's thread and this thread… This is how things were working for me in past 70+ days:

After quiting PORN i realised that i have a very empty life with not much happening in it. Or that is my feeling anyhow. I still find it hard to amuse myself or arouse my curiosity or interest in anything. Its like a grey blanket thrown over my mood. Looking back iam starting to realise that PORN and MASTURBATION were my go to pleasure and mood enhancers. Like anti-depressants and amusement park in one. I have very few other interests and hobbies that i would rather pursue or spend time with other than PORN and MASTURBATION. When i removed PMO i realised i have an empty and boring life. Not shitty like feeling physical pain or discomfort but just boring and uneventfull - empty, bland. And this would also describe my mood. Bland. Bored. Until i had PORN i never realised how boring and empty life i live. Now i do see it and i want to change that. I need new fun activities and projects in my life, i need ways to enhance my mood different than PORN and MASTURBATION - hence i need NEW LIFE… new activities to enjoy myself without the help of PORN and MASTURBATION… so far iam thinking about taking on:

- piano lessons (my only other big hobby apart from PORN and MASTURBATION)
- regular excercise (3x a week)
- swimming lessons (i want to swim a proper athletic freestyle)
- loosing the flabby gut
- eating healthier (no junk and processed food, less sugar)
- reading more books (fiction) - already bought a Kindle and few novels
- getting a driving license and a car or nice scooter (Vespa)
- doing YOGA for stretching and flexibility (3x a week)
- i think i might enroll to university (musicology) - they are still unpayed in my country
- more to come in updates


TheUnderdog's thread link: http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=15558.0


7) SLIGHT EDGE book by Jeff Olson

(also recomended by TheUnderdog in his thread (link above))

In case you wonder HOW to start up your NEW LIFE after PORN (point no. 6) when you feel like you have nothing interesting and fun left in your life after quiting PORN - a big void - read this book "The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson" - it is a VERY simple common sense concept but explained with such an unarming amount of evidence and examples and poignant tips and tricks thats its a must read even if you get the simple concept in first 20 pages - READ THE WHOLE BOOK - to get the simple concept deep into your brain and understand why such a simple concept is ignored by 95% of population to their own loss…


8 Limiting forum visits

I explained it several times in this thread. By coming on discussion forums such as YBR and YBOP i gain a lot of valuable information, no doubt, but i also read about this addiction of mine over and over and over. I basically have head full or PORN even without watching it If I experience problems and set backs its good to come here and consult with others but if my progress is steady and uninterupted (day after day of succesfull NoPMO or NoA) i prefer not to come here. If my method is working for me there is no need to read more info about the addiction because what i know so far is working for me at this moment. So its enough knowledge to fight the addiction. If i relapse i might come here and re-think my approach and study other people's threads and what works for them.

But so far my mixture of methods (explained above) works so i limit the visits to any PORN related help forums to 1 single day every 14 calendar days. And i specify that day in calendar so i know exactly when its been 14 days. That day i come here reply to anyone in my thread or read whatever i want. Than i give it rest for another 14 days. Simple but very healthy for your psyche. So ill see you on Saturday 11th of January 2014.



THATS IT FOR NOW - BUT REST ASSURED I WILL ADD MORE METHODS, TOOLS & FAQ

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

I'm trying NoA, but I'm not sure that it's possible for me to cut out all sources of dopamine in my life. I mean, do I just stop talking to friends/girls? Stop making origami, stop playing violin, stop hugging my mom goodnight? I don't think those are unnatural sources of dopamine.

Also would you count a sexual dream as arousal? (Well I was still aroused when I woke up.)

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

Yeah, you're right, cutting all dopamine sources out of life doesn't really seem to be a healthy way to deal with any addiction. I think bigbookofpenis was just highlighting some of the ways you SHOULDN'T replace your dopamine, as opposed to ones that hurt you in terms of porn recovery.

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{18}

well as you can see iam replying to you even though i promised myself not to come to YBR until Saturday 11th of January... iam not proud of breaking my own rule "8 Limiting forum visits" but i had my reasons... anyway since i already stoped by in here, i might as well answer your question )

picats3141 wrote> "some of the ways you SHOULDN'T replace your dopamine"

- COMPUTER
- INTERNET
- HIGH CALORIE JUNK FOOD AND SWEETS
- ALCOHOL
- TV

there you go picats3141 you answered yourself better than i could (certainly shorter than i would ) the word REPLACE is important... check this cartoon (no triggers) its exactly about replacing lack of one bad habit with increased consumption of other bad habits...

http://www.reuniting.info/images/comorbidity.jpg

that post that you refer to is from my 32nd day on NoA (iam now at 83) and i might got carried away a little - sure it would be THE RIGHT THING TO DO to abstain from all the above 21st century "drugs" and "anxiety killers" but in reality that would either need moving to monastery (what iam refering there) or someone with an increadibly interesting and fullfilling life... i aspire to create an incredibly interesting and fulfilling life after i quited porn and I ASSURE YOU I WILL TRY MY BEST to limit the above things from my life as much as possible but its a looong and very gradual process - unlike NoA where i went cold-turkey on all erotic cues (real or virtual) and i suggest other should try it too

possibly iam not a good writer because i cant imagine how could anyone interpret my posts as some do

picats3141> making origami, playing violin, hugging my mom - you should do these as much as possible - these are the good sources of dopamine and they are the reason why dopamine system evolved in primates... also their dopamine intensity is very safe - it cant compare to PORN, DRUGS, ADDICTIONS

picats3141 wrote> also would you count a sexual dream as arousal?
dont bother with what you cant control or influence... do i bother that i have wet dream ? NO... do i bother that when my alarm wakes me up i have a massive bonner ? NO... these are biological proceses that happen when your decisive frontal cortex is offline by sleep… that doesnt count…

but iam past the preaching and persuading phase... all i write here is for informational purposes (read it or leave it) and as an account for anyone interested as well as for myself, how did i fix myself and what works for me... may work for you, may not work for you...read the motto...

i believe i wrote MORE THAN ENOUGH for anyone to understand what i do and so far this works for me… if i wouldnt write a single post in this thread (my plan FOR THE FUTURE is to cut sex-help forum visits and non-educational internet visits as much as my willpower will be capable of) this thread will always remain a COMPLETE account of the NoA method…

i especially refer you to the last big summary of my method in this previous post:
http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=14525.msg289309#msg289309

please feel free to ask questions but my visits on YBR may (or may not, depending on my willpower ) be more and more erratic and sporadic (my suggestion "No. 8 Limiting forum visits" still holds)

cheers

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{19}

100 DAYS ANNIVERSARY

NoA definitelly works for me

100 days is just one of many checkpoints along the looooong journey... The destination, The goal is of course NO PORN FOR THE REST OF LIFE !

Ill decide about MASTURBATION later (when ill hit 365 days and more of NoA / NoPMO) but in my opinion SOLO MASTURBATION is totally unnecessary in healthy man's life, just like PORN... Wet Dreams take care of the prostate clean-up once in a while and every man should be striving to get as much real sex with real girls as possible, thats what drives males of all species, if you admit it to yourself or not

NO PORN & NO MASTURBATION FOR THE REST OF LIFE is the way of alpha male There is plenty of girls on the planet to resort to fucking your own hand in an empty room In fact MASTURBATION starts to look like a pretty desperate and sad activity to me... but many wont agree with me and thats ok - i dont argue with other people's views - its just that... "other people's views" - everybody is different with different needs and opinions - do whatever works for you...

But enough philosophy... back to work... see you in another month or maybe more... There is not much to add to NoA... everything was layed out in this thread...

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

I don't put no-MO on a pedestal or see it as a way of life. However after I started having sex again - yes, MO feels empty and sad compared to the real thing. It is very much possible, that I may chose to try and give it up for good. I did one month without it, before having a stupid relapse a day ago. That month felt really good....

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

{20}

congrats on your counter - 2 days to your little aniversary

well my opinion is that solo masturbation kind of messes with my self-confidence and mood... just a tiny little... but done often it kind of adds up over the years... i dont have any elaborate theory on this - or not one i would publish here - but i kinda feel its healthier for my self-esteem to beasically NOT HAVE ORGASM if it aint with a girl... Real Sex or abstinence, its either 1 or 0... it sure can be tough and even seem simple minded approach but i feel its the way to go ) it makes me feel stronger and more confident in the way i can control myself and hold my integrity against urges... but thats what works for me and everyone is different... so iam just saying how i feel inside my head...

 

Re: NoA (No Arousal - celibacy of body AND MIND for 3+ months)

bigbookofpenis, I've read through all of your posts here and some on UD's big reboot thread and I must thank you for what you have shared here and your NoA method.

Maybe it has to do with my casual study of buddhism, taoism, and hinduism over the last 6-7 years, but I see a lot of wisdom in what you are trying to do with NoA and I think it's all perfectly rational within the purview of trying to repair a damaged and unbalanced brain. Of the five precepts of buddhism is "No sexual misconduct" and "Respect for our pure nature" - "Proper conduct shows respect for oneself and others. Our bodies are gifts from our parents, so we should protect them from harm. Young people should especially keep their natures pure and develop their virtue. It is up to them to make the world a better place to live. In happy families, the husband and wife both respect each other."

Of course I'm not suggesting that we literally become monks but if you are going to beat something like "sexual misconduct" purity of body and mind is so important. And I know a lot of us started at a young age and are now trying to do this difficult task of getting off the compulsive PMO cycle to have a more intimate, respectful relationship with our wives or girlfriends, and of course better, more natural sex. I think NoA is so great because I don't know about anyone else but I can't just stop PMO and still fantasize all day about really dirty things that I've learned from years of porn addiction and then look my girlfriend in the face and feel that it's all normal and natural.

I actually came across NoFap about a year ago and I made the HUGE mistake of relapsing and giving up after about 30 days and thinking that I could somehow balance porn, masturbation, and a healthy relationship with a real girl as if nothing was wrong with me. Such a big, big mistake and so much wasted time back on the shameful, pathetic PMO treadmill.

But I'm here now and I'm more motivated than EVER to have a NEW LIFE. I calculated my 5% recovery time to be 275 days. I'm starting today.

I'll be checking on your progress regularly whenever you happen to be around. Your journey is very inspiring and helpful to me!! Keep it up! (and keep it down! )