The Buddha-Dharma Reboot [OPEN GROUP]

Discussion in 'Accountability Partners' started by LOGOS, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Szabo

    Szabo Don't settle for a quick-fix; unravel the layers.

    Re: The Buddha-Dharma Reboot [GROUP]

    I'd be keen for that too :). I often have questions related to Dharma which I don't have an outlet for :)

  2. LOGOS

    LOGOS Personal Best - 233 Days PMO-free

    ARCHIVED: The Buddha-Dharma Reboot [INACTIVE]

    Hi All,

    I am not sure how the existence of this thread as it is blocks anyone from discussing dharma here or on the rest of the site. This group is defunct simply because nobody has been paying attention to it, or posting regularly. No matter how many times I welcomed a new member and encouraged him to contribute, he just drifted away. Lots of people posted with questions about Buddhism or, often, tangentially-related non-Western religious ideas. The people who joined the group in the sense of committing to contributing one dharma-related reflection on PMO did not follow through on this intention.

    But, with all that in mind ... why not just get active in this group? My calling it defunct was just responding to another member who had posted with information about what its current condition was.

    Anyway, I have no way to close or delete the thread. I have changed the subject line .... I don't know what different it will make. In my view it looks kind of awful. If this discussion is revived, I can change it back, or if another discussion gets going, I'll be deeply encouraged by it and hope to participate.

    Bowing deeply,
  3. Professor Chaos

    Professor Chaos Active Member

    Re: ARCHIVED: The Buddha-Dharma Reboot [INACTIVE GROUP]

    Well let's fire it back up again. :) Maybe all it needs is a few bumps to get going.

    Jeff what are your questions relating to Dharma. I don't feel qualified to answer them, but my understanding is that a large part about Buddhist thinking is that it welcomes healthy discussion and debate.

  4. Re: ARCHIVED: The Buddha-Dharma Reboot [INACTIVE GROUP]

    BSM you can lock any thread you've started.

    However, I'd change the title of the thread and remove the ARCHIVED -- turns out its not defuct at all.

    I saw your "defunct" post and your explanation and now understand the reality of the situation.

    Anytime a post gets a new reply, it pops up to the top of everyone's feed, so there was really nothing 'defunct' about it.

    So, to the previous poster's comment, yes, let's now officially consider it revived (and I now recommend you remove the ARCHIVED from the Subject heading ;-) )
  5. Szabo

    Szabo Don't settle for a quick-fix; unravel the layers.

    Re: ARCHIVED: The Buddha-Dharma Reboot [INACTIVE GROUP]

    @Professor Chaos, I'm not sure any specific questions spring to mind right now, none that I can't ask my sangha anyway :)

    In terms of rebooting, though, dharma has given me an incredible insight into balance which I attribute to the success of my reboot. I often give people advise on attachment on this forum because porn addiction is almost the epitome of clinging and attachment. Thoughts?
  6. TCB are you still out there?

    You made such a convincing statement about avoiding meat, and then also noted that you're currently a 'meat eater'. I wonder about that?

    I do zen meditation and have a teacher but I haven't gone to see him in months.

    The meditation seems to always help me feel like things are actually real and incredible, and without it, I tend to just try to squeak by with minimal effort, and see little point in being motivated, or rather little motivation.

    I made a vow a while ago to "not cloud the mind", and so I gave up smoking and recreational drug use, or at least regular smoking and recreational drug and alcohol use.

    I decided that p was also in the "cloud the mind" categorhy so decided I should give that up.

    Wellllllll NOT SO EASY it turned out. Over two years after my vow, I'm still struggling. With a recent bout of strength and brougth on by my signing up here.

    In my case, my struggle to actually fulfill my vow with regards to p actually I think made me embarassed to go and talk to my meditation teacher, since if I were to be honest that would be the questiona nd issue I would put before him.

    So paradoxically, my resisting p has in a strange way kept me from getting more deeply engaged in a formal mindful practice.

    I do try to meditate each morning.
  7. Szabo

    Szabo Don't settle for a quick-fix; unravel the layers.

    @billrivers: Recovery from a porn addiction is about changing your life and finding that inner strength to get out. Give yourself space and be compassionate with yourself. If you can't be compassionate with yourself then you will just keep on running from the scary truth: you are the only person that can change this. No point being scared of your Zen master, unless you're scared of hearing the very same type of thing as what I've just said. Observe your mind, find your weaknesses. Start to use your meditation as a means to embark on an exciting and fulfilling journey, rather than a chore that needs to be done. I like to think of meditation a means to unravelling layers of your soul. First you will uncover and begin to understand the things that make you relapse. Then you will uncover other potentially uncomfortable truths about yourself. Then you will start to be able to connect on a much deeper level to your Buddha nature. View all discovery as learning, and try to enjoy it. Failure is just a way of strengthening yourself for the sake of others.
  8. LOGOS

    LOGOS Personal Best - 233 Days PMO-free

    There are several ways you can approach your teacher that might not mean putting out there the distracting information about PMO. You could instead simply talk about vow: what it means to take a vow (or, as we say in Zen, receive a precept), and what it means to work with one, what struggling with a vow reveals, and how it can be part of the practice rather than an obstacle to it. If he or she asks more specific questions, be honest, but you can also simply say that you are struggling with the precept regarding the misuse of sexuality. Probably don't need to go into further details than that. Good luck!

    Bowing deeply,
  9. Professor Chaos

    Professor Chaos Active Member

    Hi everyone.

    Nice to see the group coming back to life. The wheel of Dharma is turning. :) It was a Buddhist website that lead me here and like billrivers, I also found it the hardest thing to abstain from.

    I come from the Vipassana school of practice and recently sat my second 10 day course. This time I really went deep and could really see what was down there and battled some very dark forces in myself. As Jeff says, it shows you what you NEED to see, not what you WANT to see.

    Vipassana was very life changing for me and I am managing to keep up my daily meditation practice. It's certainly helped me in my battle against P, but it has taken me several attempts to get it right.

    Sexual energy is very powerful. It's what has kept our species alive on this planet for so long. I suspect that is why there is a whole precept dedicated to it.

  10. All these responses are great -- thanks jeff, chaos, pcb,

    Another way that p and meditation interact is that frequently my p use would be late at night.

    This would then cut into sleep, and this would then make easily rationalize skipping morning meditation.

    Have you all discovered this fight between sleep and meditation when you get, say, 5 hours of sleep, it being all to easy to justify sleeping an extra hour an skipping meditaiton for that day?

    I also think sometimes I've avoided meditation because I know that its a road leading away from p and my p monster subconscious (or whatever) wants to retain a presence or control.
  11. Professor Chaos

    Professor Chaos Active Member

    Hi billrivers,

    This is actually already identified by Buddhist meditators. It's the third of the five references to meditation.

    Sloth-torpor is a dull, morbid state that is characterized by unwieldiness, lack of energy, and opposition to wholesome activity.
    Ajahn Brahmavamso states: "Sloth and torpor refers to that heaviness of body and dullness of mind which drag one down into disabling inertia and thick depression. [...] In meditation, it causes weak and intermittent mindfulness which can even lead to falling asleep in meditation without even realising it!"

    Sounds pretty familiar right? I think we have all been in that state. The great thing about following the path is that others have trodden those steps and they have left sign posts for us to read.

    If you are working during the day I find that setting an alarm, then meditating at a regular time, really helps. Otherwise, I get distracted by other things. Being a Vipassana meditator I meditate two hours a day. One in the morning and one in the evening, so I have to make sure I schedule these into my day.

    If you're having trouble getting up, I experimented with this app for my phone and it worked really well as an alarm clock.

    Good luck brother. :) I also think you answered your own question. ;)

  12. Thanks.

    Really a big problem with the meditation is it forces me to see what my life really is, which is often a big messy trash pit of procrastinatory garbage and lies.

    But , you can't fix what you can't see, so gotta do it. but it often isn't fun. especially in the morning, but still trying and failing to get up early enough to do it. still trying though. will try and 'practice' getting out of bed when alarm rings, try doing that a few times during day I heard it helps.

    i think that its also helpful to meditate to help p because by doing meditation we can actually catch glimpses (or long novels or 20 part miniseries) of a state of contentment and gulp, even pleasure, that is constantly avialble -- knowign that this is there can be very helpful in avoiding the kind of despair that can come when it seems like p is the only way to achieve an "O".

    i.e. meditation itself provides a form of "O" that is, in a way, always availble from life.
  13. Zazaka

    Zazaka New Member

    The Buddha-Dharma Reboot

    This is complete awesomeness, as I have now been in this forum for more than ten days and am just seeing this.

    Learning meditation has saved my life, and studying Buddhism and yoga have eased my suffering both mentally and physically. I have been going to Iyengar yoga for five years, which led me to meditation, breathing exercises (pranayama) for emotional control and balance... Now I've found myself on a spiritual path that is influencing my life in amazing ways.

    I'm a 39 year old design professional and researcher in Holland. I can't wait to read every post in this strand and follow you guys, some of whom I've already read with much interest.

    I'm on day 11of my reboot, working at home, meditation exercising and doing yoga like crazy.Every day it gets better, time will tell if I can keep this going as a sustainable part of my life.

    x z x
  14. Professor Chaos

    Professor Chaos Active Member

    Re: The Buddha-Dharma Reboot

    Isn't Dharma rather amazing. I'm about to head off to my second Iyengar yoga class this morning. I meditate regularly, Zazaka, do you have any tips on maintaining a regular practice.

    billrivers, check back in with us and let us know your progress. I remember one of my old tricks is to move my alarm to the other side of the room, that way I HAVE to get up to switch it off. Once I'm up I'd leave a pile of clothes there, change into them without thinking and then go for a run or walk. The trick was not to give my brain time to challenge that decision. Once you're moving momentum becomes easy.

    You mentioned that you see your life as 'big messy trash pit of procrastinatory garbage and lies'. One of the keys I have found to understanding Buddhist wisdom is to simple go... OK... so my life IS a big messy trash pit of procrastinatory garbage and lies. By accepting what is, you rob it of it's power to generate more suffering for yourself. OK, this is how it is. As soon as you do that you create a smile inside. Some of it's power or the power of what dictates your life to be such a mess diminishes and you can start to laugh and move forward. Fix small things and it will have a snowball effect.

    'My life is shit and it's too big to sort out.'... OK then get up and organise your socks, or give your room a dust, or do the dishes. These actions can be just as meditative. Doing these simple actions, like meditation robs the 'suffering' of it's fuel and it will start to get smaller.

    I hope that helps. :)


  15. Zazaka

    Zazaka New Member

    The Buddha-Dharma Reboot

    I have found a physical path crucial: more than just exercising to exhaustion as a way to beat sex urges, the yoga for me works from the outside in, one of the concepts of yoga. The alignment, the stretching, the asanas, they change the quality of your mind. It's quite subtle, and at first it's like whatevs... But then you get it.

    After eight hours behind my computer at work I am a raging ball of frustration and horniness. I desperately want to get drunk, smoke, do poppers, and have sex into oblivion, I didn't even care with whom. I haven't done that in about ten days now, because the hangover and the anguish were so bad, I really couldn't live with it. I go into yoga practice, and come out feeling calm, clear, balanced, smiling. It's odd living two parallel lives like that. The yogi, and the slut.

    I'm realizing now that it's so much about my shitty ego - but how there is a strong wonderful present man beneath that. And I can find that place.

    Metta bhavana has helped me immensely, first of all to love myself more, and to be at peace with people I don't like whose actions torture aforementioned insecure ego. I would very very much like to have more moments of stillness. I am more or less new at meditation, so I'm looking at your posts to find more tips.

    More than anything, I want a spiritual teacher now, but I am not sure about how to find one, and I don't feel like getting involved with anything cultish/fake/expensive.

    So this is not an inactive thread, but a rather necessary one. More soon.
  16. LOGOS

    LOGOS Personal Best - 233 Days PMO-free

    For me, the fundamental insight relating addiction/compulsion to dharma, is that at some level the human condition, as it touches all areas of our lives, is addiction, craving, dukkha. This insight has made me sensitive (on good days) to the ways that the same impulses that fed my porn addiction, and feed my sexual addiction, are at work in so many parts of my life --- materialism, relationships, and so on. And, the importance of brining practice to all of those.

    Zazaka, it's hard to find a spiritual teacher, particularly depending on where you live. But I think that dropping in on any Vajrayana, Vipassana, or Mahayana (e.g. Zen) sangha, or involvement in some yogic communities, is probably a good place to start. I think you can get a feel pretty quick whether what you're seeing is cultish or not. Eventually you may meet that teacher, and in the meantime you are likely to meet people who can support your spiritual practice in many ways.
  17. Zazaka

    Zazaka New Member

    Dear Men,
    Well, I just had my first relapse where things got a little out of control, which I've written about in my journal.
    Tonight I am going to Tantra Kriya Yoga for men to see if this is something for me. As an avid yoga practitioner... doing yoga naked with other guys in a non sexual environment.
    I'm thinking it would be wonderful to be with guys in a nonsexual way, because I think I am a solid objectifier at this stage - I just associate men with sex, and value them in that way or not right off the bat.
    I will keep you posted on this. It may be the wrong way to go. But I'm open to trying everything... at least once.

    I'm in a lot of pain right now, and not a great person to be around.
  18. Professor Chaos

    Professor Chaos Active Member

    Hey Zazaka,

    I read your blog post, sending you lots of metta from Australia. I hope you feel better soon. Remember this is a path and you are still on it. We all falter sometimes, no one gets better and just goes up and up. Sometimes it's like a mountain, pits and valleys on all sides. Just keep following the path. Take care and keep us posted.


  19. Folks I meditated every single day this week and it was great.

    And I credit you all for the support.

    Thanks bros.

    Zazaka how'd yoga go?
  20. Zazaka

    Zazaka New Member


    I am super proud of you. I've read a lot of your posts and you say some very clear and strong things that help me understand what I'm doing here.
    I really feel for your struggles.

    The tantra yoga was great for me. It was the first time I've experienced anything like that. In a nutshell, the experience is about being able to deeply connect with another human, through the eyes, through the breath, being present and connected and striving to feel this big warmth in the chest, smiling... Doesn't matter what your partner looks like, you are connecting to what's inside them. So to summarize, it would be the exact opposite experience of PMO. I highly recommend it. I think that some of these energy building and connecting techniques could be quite good in your case - to reconnect with your partner emotionally and physically.

    It's not all that esoteric really.

    It really balanced my sexual energy, I felt so calm with my sexual energy afterwards and slept better than I have in months.

    "The purpose of yoga / meditation is to calm the distractions of the mind to achieve focus in a single object. Striving is a distraction. If you are living in the present moment you must release attachment to the past including regret and nostalgia and must release attachment to the future including hopes, fears and expectations. This allows you to overcome maya--the delusion that what our senses and memories give us real information-- and follow your true purpose or dharma."


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