Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Imfree, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I'm have an older woman that I can contact now. She seems to be offering as much or as little of a relationship as I want. Basically I can call her up for sex anytime and it is not expected that I offer more. Her personality is pretty cool, I suppose. This is a huge step down from my ex though on the physical level, which has led to severe depression.

    I had the odd experience the other day of edging for 1-1.5 hours and then thinking "fuck this, I could be having sex right now". I went over to her place, had sex with her and spend the night. I nearly forgot about the porn and she didn't know anything was up. But a week or so later, I made the first statements of potential intent to break up with her, and then had sex with her again. After that, I wasn't contacting her and had more of a true binge with porn. Well, I was watching porn for 2 hours or so, then a break where I got out of the the house for an hour and then back into an hour of edging.

    I'm at a really wierd stage with porn now. I a real erection an physiological arousal for the first hour or so. Then I'll briefly escalate to the greatest extreme possible and then de-escalate again. At some point I realize that porn won't offer me what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the "perfect" image, but it becomes more and more elusive. Either I nit-pick and criticize aspects of each scene, or I see the same crap that I have seen many times before. One thing that is a bit odd, is that I can't masturbate to women that are too attractive. If they're "beyond a 10", I won't masturbate to it because I'll either be worried about ejaculating and not being able to continue edging, or (more likely) I won't be able to fantasize about the woman for even a second and I will feel mostly sad about not being able to get somebody like her in real life. This can lead back to extreme genres as there is some desire to "punish" women for being unattainable. (It took me a long time to admit this.) And I certainly can't fantasize about the extreme scenarios anymore. At the peak of addiction I imagined that it was reasonable to get into some "swinging" type of lifestyle or that I could play some degraded and trivial role in the industry. Now I know that I don't really want those things and that the women are never actually enjoying it. If I see a scene where the woman makes some attempt to act like she's enjoying it I still feel like I have hit the "jackpot" for a couple seconds, but my though process is stricly along the lines of "nice scene" or "nice performance". I never try to picture myself or any real person in the scene as either a participant or an observer. I may see something particularly troubling and try to de-escalate. When I do this, I become aware of how the websites are always trying to re-escalate me with one more extreme thumbnail on each page. At some point I think either "I won't find the scene that I really want" or "this is all crap/ boring". On an emotional level I realize that it is pointless. I start thinking "it's not worth wasting my load/ energy/ self-confidence/ self-respect/ time on this". At that point I want to stop, but on the physical level I have trouble doing so. As the frequency and intensity of my strokes abate, I become less hard and I start to be more aware of the beginings of internal and external discomfort or pain in the genital region. At the start, I think that I will discipline myself into watching an entire scene; Then at least really taking some time to absorb the highlights; Then sitting through all of this lightspeed edited gonzo music compilation before clicking on something else. At the end, not only am I not watching entire scenes of any level of "core", I'm not even maximizing, I'm not even clicking through on anything. I'll hover over one or two thumbnails on each page of results and look at the tiny window of animated highlights for a second or two before moving on.

    So, geting back to the last moderage binge. I realized the tragedy and futility, wanted to stop, and eventually did stop. I got out and did some productive stuff, made my best attempt to be present, to smile and make eye contact. But I had gone too far. At that point I had crazy blue balls. It got to be so painful that I reluctantly came home and went for the full pmo (of course I couldn't ejaculate to just anything so I was searching for another hour). The pain didn't go away after fulling committing to PMO. What's worse, the pain greatly intensified at and around the moment of the first ejaculation and stayed at the same level for subsequent ejaculations. And lingering soreness thoughout the day, urinating a lot of dribble, having to be careful how I sit down, etc. This seems to have no long term consequences. I have always recovered, but I can't stand the thought that I might have to turn down sex or perform poorly if I did happen to have a desireable woman coming on to me during that time.

    This last binge was the first time I really felt the absolute terror on a level beyond the intellectual. I was too aware of the whole process to have any exaggerated shame or self-blame. Really, I'm the victim. I should take on what responsibility I can, but I was deceived and manipulated when I was at my most vulnerable, credulous, and naive. I didn't make that crap. I didn't promote it as harmless fun. I didn't cause disintegration and alienation in society or debase family values. At this point I was fully aware that watching that garbage didn't mean that I wasn't capable of love, tenderness, and spiritual transcendence; and that that wasn't what I really wanted. I thought "even if love is stronger, I was still overtaken in that moment by pure evil". Absolute terror and deep grief and regret, that is the only honest response. You realize that this is no different from somebody holding a gun to your head and just as serious. It could lead to you actually taking your own life or it could kill your unborn children and distance your unmarried wife...No exageration, no heat of passion, no overreaction, just a rational assesment of the facts. Pornographers should be given a fair, just, rational trial, and then put to death. It's a mercy killing really.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  2. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I'm now about 15 months past choosing porn over a "happily ever after" situation better than anything I could have hoped for. Going through deeper and deeper layers of hell. No joke, I'm reading descriptions of Nazi concentration camp experiments to lighten my mood. Every second I am pummelled by another layer of nightmare reality and I respond with "I don't want it". 31 days ago I conclusively decided that I would never again identify with my opressor and never again embrace that ultra-demon pornography. Everybody is now married off and there is no hope, but I just can't swallow that poison anymore. I fast and submerge myself in glacial water in hopes of cleansing my soul for the afterlife.
  3. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I've stopped counting days for both porn and masturbation. I know that I'll never watch porn again and only masturbate if it's to relieve legitimate blue balls.

    I truely lost my mind now. I'm on an intense self-punishment/ self-improvement regimen, but nothing I do can have any impact on the facts of my life, which are absolutely horrific. Self-respect seems like it should count for something. I really don't know what's been stopping my from offing myself.
  4. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I know for certain that this time is different and that I have truely beat porn addiction, but I'm left with a huge void. Now I have to face the facts. I chose pixels over human relationships for so many years, and as a result there are only 3 people in the world who would voluntarily spend time with me, two of whom are relatives.

    This long weekend, I am forced to confront these harsh realities. In the past, I would have binged on Friday night, made elaborate rituals to cleanse myself and pull myself back to the land of the living on Saturday. On Sunday, I would have taken pleasure in basic routines and activities, thankful that I had eventually managed to stop PMOing. On Monday a seed of hope would be planted and I would have thought "maybe I will truely break free this time". These cycles kept me occupied and offered meaning and structure.

    Now, I'm going to have to feel ashamed, awkward, frightened, and frustrated all the time. If I want to get a decent girlfriend I'm going to have to immerse myself in negative emotions and situations to such a degree that I can no longer imagine things being otherwise. There can be no rest until I have children, a long term partner, a house, and a new job in a different city. All of these things could happen, but the odds are not in my favor.

    My life is half over and the value of it is currently objectively somewhere around zero. If I can create anything at this point, maybe I can grant myself some measure of forgiveness.
    Merton likes this.
  5. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I had a moment when I said "It's time". I wrote that in my calendar so I could remember what day it was. This was different because it was the first time I didn't set goal of a streak (implicitly allowing myself the "reward" of relapse). It was the first time that I could truely say that I was stopping forever. Having that thought and picturing it as a necessity was the endpoint. I knew that I had arrived at the goal. All that was left was observing the effects.

    After a couple weeks, I went through the most intense cravings and flashbacks, greatly relieved that this was the last time that I had to go through that. Afterwards I thought a lot about the impact of porn on my life and on my mind, but there were no more flashbacks. Memories of scenes maybe, but just with a thought like "hard to believe that I used to subject myself to that sort of thing". Getting past the first month, when the real benefits start to kick in, I was in challenging situations where I had to put my best foot forward. I thought "thank god that I'm on more than a month of a streak". Then I realized that from now on, I would allways be over a month in. No cravings at all at this point, no engagement with porn scenarios in my head. Cravings are only caused when you allow relapse at some point in the future. There is no point in craving because it will never lead to acting out. Craving, flashing back, or remembering would be just frustrating. Why would I want to feel worse? The addict had died because I denied him any hope. I have fully accepted life without porn. All that I'm left with now is a sense of regret. No bittersweet memories of porn. The memories are entirely negative. Porn is not sex with a beautiful woman. It doesn't undo any negative experience. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't accomplish anything. It is an absence, a void, a menacing black hole.

    This could have only happened through impossible suffering. I literally suffered more than any human being had ever suffered. More than people in war zones and the like. I'm not saying that what happened to me was worse in an objective sense. I don't really know why I suffered more than anybody else ever had. It was not any real accomplishment, but it was the truth. That was just my reaction. I'm just more sensitive than other people. No piece of art or literature, no look on somebody's face, nothing could possibly convey this level of suffering. But if somebody had seen my physical reactions and behaviours, they would have agreed that this was the most intense suffering that the world had ever known.

    I knew that there was little hope of redemption or renewal. That I might spend the rest of my existence as a ghost. But, it was the only possible course of action. Porn had previously been seen as an escape, necessary as a salve even though it had caused the worst possible outcome. I was thinking "might as well keep PMOing, the damage is allready done". I just got to the point where I knew I couldn't do it anymore. I could no longer identify with my tormentor. Success or failure was irrelevant. Improving or deteriorating conditions were irrelevant. It is a spiritual act of atonement. Every day lessens my karmic burden. I did something terrible. That's not something I'm going to deny. Those are the facts. I am being punished. There is no other explanation. My expectations are at zero. The possibility of second chances can't be taken for granted. I am at a lower rock bottom than anything I could have imagined. I got to the point where every atom in the universe was directed against me with malicious intent. I realized that that god is pure evil.

    Today I was walking in the woods. It felt really comforting to think that I could be eaten by a cougar. I would offer my body gleefully, hoping that I would be tasty and nutritious. I would be of great value to the cat. Maybe the cougar would be starving. Maybe I would save it's life. Maybe somebody would see that cougar and impress a beautiful woman by telling her the story. Maybe there were bacteria and parasites in me at that very moment who thought I was the best thing ever. I'll take on any value I can get at this point.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
  6. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I think that I might have been getting some real results last night. Out of nowhere I had a sudden outpouring of self-love. I was comparing myself favorably to people who I would have felt inferior to before.

    I'm doing a lot of online dating and trying out a lot of different approaches. I'm being very direct and honest in describing my experiences as rejector or rejectee and the frustration that comes with this to dates. This has been therapeutic and necessary, but not a good strategy to get more dates. I'm having a lot of trouble accepting how bland and generic you have to be at the start. I want to talk about real things from the get go and get everything about the situation out in the open. I have been seeing it as a bit of a game and I feel like I am living life to the fullest, but people often misunderstand my tone when I'm often half-joking. I've always felt a certain resentment over how women hold the power in relationships. I've been trying to take my power back, but I'm either backing off at some point (often in subtle ways where I deceive myself), or going to the point where I look like a crazy asshole rather than a bad boy alpha. I'm getting into these situations where I really feel like I was in the right and displaying a lot of social intelligence, but where it disintigrated into total misunderstanding. I'm trying to get the last word in. I don't agree to have my power taken away. I really don't know where the balance is. I'm just experimenting. My attitude is paradoxically light, but serious and determined.

    Going off of PMO does have some actual risks, though fairly minor. I'm definitely dealing with a lot of anger right now. When I'm off porn I get get wild and savage and too resistant to social conventions. Though it sounds conspiratorial, it seems self evident to me that porn is tacitly promoted to make the populace more docile. Docile, but dissatisfied.
    Pete McVries likes this.
  7. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I had a bit of a realization today: "oh, if somebody criticizes me, I can accept it or reject it and give it back to them. I can even offer my own criticisms" also "I can be complex, moody, and irrational too. I don't have too allways explain and appologize". This is fun. Better to get some kind of reaction than indifference or insincere sympathy.

    Recently I got to the point where I don't change how I spend my time based on somebody's opinion of me. If somebody judged or rejected me, why would I take that as a reason to do something different than what I was planning on doing?
    Pete McVries likes this.
  8. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    Most definitely. People said that about the TV in the 80's and 90's and tv is far less powerful compared to porn. When you seriously quit P and MO, probably there comes a time when you are a bit flabbergasted and wonder where all this energy and drive of yours suddenly come from.
  9. Doper

    Doper Active Member

    I think some of that may be withdrawal symptoms. When I'm all PMO'd out and/or actively drinking or hungover, I won't argue about anything.....or I should say not as much, that's more believable, lol. It's when I've got about 3-6 days clean when I just come out swinging (figuratively) about absolutely nothing, and get as you said, savage. This is more alcohol for me but P still probably applies to a lesser extent.
  10. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    Yeah, it's probably a bit of both: Improving self esteem and increased desire for freedom and grumpiness due to withdrawls. It will be interesting to see where this leads.
  11. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    People on the forum would probably be generally oposed to the idea of mood altering, but I have been revisting marijuana as a form of self-medication. I had been using it very infrequently, but I thought maybe the downsides were mostly all in my head/ due to cultural conditioning. I'm not saying I want to be stoned all the time, but there is a certain innocence and openness that can come with the effects. With my personality, a bit of slowing of thought and activity might be desireable. I was just enjoying the effects last night. Marijuana came to be associated with porn/masturbation binges, but if I avoid that then I get into other types of sensuality, or maybe even spirituality. Life has gotten so bleak and heavy, I need to regain some humanity and I am trying to recover things from my youth that made me feel OK.
  12. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    My strategy was to keep getting back on the horse after getting thrown off and to desensitize myself to rejection due to habituation. By this I mean devoting most of my spare time to dating, which means online dating in this day and age. I went too far with that though. Probably best to take a break now. I feel like I'm constantly being judged or heavily dissapointed, with the occasional bout of feeling like a jerk. I'm not at the point of giving up entirely yet, but I was getting frustrated to the point of sabatoging things and provoking negative reactions instead of indifference or bland "politeness". My main thought going into this last (final) streak was that I would only appreciate being with a good woman enough if I was not tainted by porn fantasies. I was preparing myself for a bit of a wait, hoping that going from a state of lack I would be nothing but greatful and present in the next relationship. Now that I am not throwing away any of my libido, I should be stronger to wait things out, and in a sense I have been acting this way, not getting into a mediocre "relationship" out of desparation...but at the same time I feel a certain type of entitlment, thinking I deserve sex right now because I have been doing the right thing.

    I have definitely jumped to a new level with the fact that I no longer change my behaviour based on things that happen. I'm not going to live in filth and binge on porn for days if I get rejected. I'm not quite at the point of not changing my use of my phone based on what kind of messages I'm expecting or dreading, but I'm getting close. (Used to get so scared about whether or not a text would be coming in.) I now do what is best for me regardless of any outcomes or reactions from other people.
    Pete McVries likes this.
  13. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    Wasted my whole weekend with online dating. Two meetings where I was barely interested at all, result: one confirmed rejection, one likely rejection, one "I would kill myself if I fooled around with her". I swiped through every profile on online dating until I got to the end. Started drinking heavily and sending texts implying suicidal intent to two of the three people who have continued to talk to me. No response to that even. I still haven't PMO'd though...

    Clarification: Suicidal texts were not to people from dating site. That would be truely pathetic.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  14. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    How could this unviverse and society be anuthing less than a sadistic and relentless torture? I would really like to know. What could make life worth living for a 2-3/10 who has no friends, no prospects and who is trying really hard for any social connection and completely out of ideas?
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  15. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I think I could objectively say thay I am tougher, smarter, more courageous, and even more handsome (taking physcical appearance as a relatively minor component of male attractivness) than the majority of the population, but absoulutely nothing I can do will make people care or notice if I'm alive or dead. I'm complety invisible. I've resorted to extreme tactics to test to see if I'm here, but I truely think I've been a ghost for a long time. I have absolutely no idea what could make anybody care or notice. I'm completely out of ideas. How could anybody have ever believed that there was any point or purpose to anything? Pure, exponentionally increasing, evil. Some force somewhere hates me with a passion. Where is it? Everybody else is beyond indifferent.
  16. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I guess I'm giving No PMO a bad name with my extreme negativity. I'm feeling withdrawls stronger this time because of not settling for anything less than total liberation (not just a streak). It's a super heavy thing to accept that I'm completely dependent on another person for sexual satisfaction. Of course, this was the case all along. Even when most of my illusions about porn had been shattered, I still had some wierd ideas that I picked up from it. Somehow I was still deluding myself into thinking that I had some right to continuous sexual gratification which should be recognized.

    Today I ate lunch in a pub and I was crying over a lyric in a song that was playing when the waitress came to take my order. And I was really tuned into any attractive women around, on TV, etc. Definitely some heavy duty emotions coming up here. Frustrating how long it takes to get definitive results. I think that if I can keep this up I will make progress on a lot of my problems and things will get better, but I have to go on faith for the most part right now. My perspective is still heavily influenced from all the years of PMO. Might take years to know what things might have been like if I never started. It will take as long as it takes for the memories to fade, for me to operate based on reality, and for my personality to change.
  17. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I'm at day 50 No PMO now and masturbating less than once a week.

    Been living in hell for a bit over a year and much worse since getting off PMO. That stuff about feeling great as soon as you get through the first stage of withdrawls only applies to people who had existing social and romatic opportunities which they are able to maximize after getting off porn. I objectively have nothing and nobody to live for, and I've now eliminated my only source of pleasure. Every moment I feel progressive waves of shame and depression which can be felt throughout my body. If there's nobody around I'll often start groaning as in physical pain.

    I was spending hours a day on online dating apps and having 2 or 3 meetings a week. Now I've realized the absolute futility of this, but I keep up with it because it is a new addiction. I'm starting to get away from it a bit because I've gotten to the end of the people in my area and it takes a little bit for more profiles to come in. I met a couple women who I found attractive. Most were not attractive, but I thought "maybe if I force myself to sleep with them, I'll get back in the game and be in a position to find something better". A couple times I backed down before working towards these unsatisying liasons, deciding it really wasn't worth it. Most of the time I pushed for an explicit rejection after having the impression that it was strongly implied. Accumulating all these rejections from unattractive and/or crazy women has made my self esteem plummet. It was much better to think that I might be undesirable than to accumulate mountains of evidence (large sample size) where I could get a clear idea of exactly how unnatractive. My demeanor in the meetings was not at all like what comes accross in these writings. I was engaged, smiling and laughing, well-dressed. The conversation was flowing non-stop. I thought that I was doing a good job. Women who I could get excited about will swipe left on me and the others will ghost or reply with "to be honest/I'm sorry I'm didn't feel [much of ] a connection".

    I'm completely out of ideas. I've put so much effort into life while others are fine no matter what they do (even PMO). It used to be that I could say that I was being lazy, or cowardly, or self-sabatoging. I've done everything right and nothing I can do can make anybody care even a little bit.
  18. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    On day 52 no PMO/ day 13 no MO.

    I was thinking in the last two days that I had the strength to give up alcohol as well. I'm not sure if this is a good idea though. I will be the first one to call myself a "functional alcoholic", but most people would disagree with me on this. I'll be highly motivated to seek out two pints, two tall cans, or one biggest size bottle of beer either at lunch, immediately after coming home from work, or (on the rare occasion where I will be with other people in a social situation) as soon as we arrive somewhere that serves alcohol. This is stable though. It just happens once a day. If some external circumstances prevent me from drinking, I will be more or less fine, just slightly grumpy. Once a month or so, I will drink more, but I usually feel crappy and regret it afterwards.

    I just have to be careful giving up all sources of pleasure. I don't think that I'm deluding myself in saying that I am a danger to myself (and maybe to some small degree, others) if I give up everything fun. I don't believe in the disease model of depression, but I would say that I am currently depressed/ socially isolated to the point where I am experiencing mild cognitive imparement. I still get some satisfaction out of food, but my brain is slowly taking the strategy of trying to kill me, to the point where I have a physical or psychological aversion to eating for half a day or so. I'm trying to put myself back into a state of suspendended animation. Trying to keep activity to a minimum beyond what is required for basic maintenance in hopes that something in me or my surroundings will change to the point where the value of investing will outweigh the risk of experiencing more trauma.

    This morning I was getting close to the point of really getting my expectations to zero, of not desiring or expecting any personal connection, much less sex.

    Keeping off porn, I will have a much greater appreciation (hopefully sufficient) if I get back into a sexual relationship approaching the best I've had to date. No PMO is allways a gamble. I may not experience mutual attraction again and I'm going to feel way worse not PMOing for the time being, but this is also the only hope of getting out of the cylce for good. Things would be a lot easier if I could just go for the plain jane/athletic type portrayed as desirable in the media. Not many real women out there and most of them have big scary redneck boyfriends.

    I've challenged myself physically to the point where my muscles are quite sore and I had a small taste of what it would be like to die of hypothermia. I got a fair bit of endorphin rush from this, but there is still too much weekend to fill and too much dread over degredation, shaming, and meaninglessness in the upcoming work week. Can't drink anymore today. Similar cycle of shuffling through various soft drugs is such a pattern of use to maximize the comfort and minimize the harms. Just switching between the prison in my apartment and the prison outside. A lot of my readings/Internet searches have led to descriptions of bullying and physical intimidation in the USA. Where I'm at now, this is not an issue. You're just met by a wall of total indifference or subtle condescension. The idea is to discourage you from any attempt to engage with your evolutionary superiors. It's all behind this facade of "tolerance" and "politeness", but if your really try to use the extreme tactics that it takes to break through, you will either be put in your place, or be ignored to the point where you really start to question whether you exist at all. Hatred and insults are actually more humane. This implies that the other person exists and that you accept their right to exist and that they might desire good things (though you will still do whatever you can to keep them to yourself). It's a fucking war out there. Every big tatooed guy guarding his girl, the butch lesbians being quite content, and the generic career-driven women giving a look that says "don't you dare look at me or try to talk to me". Tension always near the breaking point.
  19. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    Just had the worst moment of my exisistence. Fortunately I was able to doze off for half an hour. I could not handle that. Brain shut down. Was considering relapse, but coudn't risk feeling even worse. Survival seems unlikely.
  20. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I'm not in any actual physical danger from myself or anybody else, but I have a very strong sense of impending doom. I'm shell shocked it does seem like a war zone out there. In any moment where I become self-aware, I get the opposite feeling of waking up from a nightmare and thinking "thank god it was all a dream". I'm allways in disbelief "how could things be so evil?" "how could this be my life?" I may be experiencing karma from all the porn watching.

    I did get a reply from a woman I met last weekend and made plans for a second date, plus some new online conversations. I can't allow myself to have hope though. The pressure becomes unbearable. It's a pretty heavy thing that this is not just about doing something about my horniness, but an attempt to reach out for any human contact whatsoever. If things slide much further, then it will get harder to attract anybody because the memories of friends and things I did with them will fade and I'll have nothing interesting to say. I told a white lie that I had met with friends this weekend. I'm sure that no friends would be an instant deal breaker for most women. Lucky for me modern dating doesn't require introducing friends until there is some real momentum behind the relationship. By that time, hopefully I could gain some trust and sympathy to explain my situation. I'm so isolated that helping somebody with the door to my apartment building and saying a couple words was the most significant part of the day. There are the customer service intractions but I wouldn't count them. Very robotic on my end because I know that it doesn't indicate any interest in me as a person.

    If only it could be so simple that most of this had an identifiable source, which could in theory be eradicated. It's too soon to tell at this point.

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