Sexual fetishes are not natural. What are your thoughts? Any good books on this?

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by nexusoflife, May 15, 2018.

  1. nexusoflife

    nexusoflife New Member

    I need some help in learning about the psychology of sexual fetishes. From what I have read and studied it would seem that sexual fetishes are not natural. They do not occur at birth. To my knowledge they are primarily the result of early childhood sexual imprinting due to various circumstances as a coping response to stress in early developmental stages which is later sexualized after puberty. Another cause of sexual fetishes is that they are also socially and culturally created phenomena. Lastly fetishes can develop from over exposure to pornography.

    Many people think that fetishes are things like the foot fetish, bondage, masochism, pedophilia, vore, inflation fetish, balloon fetish, furries, necrophilia, pregnancy fetish, fat fetish, hair fetish, fetishes for bodily excretions, fetishes for body injuries, burping and coughing fetishes, asphyxiation, etc.; essentially strange and unorthodox sexual triggers. However even attractions such as breasts and butts and even hair are fetishized by our society. Reason being in tribal societies sexual attraction specifically linked to breasts and butts is nonexistent. Breasts are simply something to feed babies. And while the pleasure center in the female brain is triggered by nipple stimulation, it is likely that this is to build a connection between the mother and her child in breastfeeding.

    Additionally being that for the vast majority of the evolutionary human experience our species was completely naked for all our lives it would seem that any and all sexual fetishes associated with nudity are relatively recent phenomena for our species only coming into existence with the invention of clothing. Due the fact that the vast majority of humans wear clothes nearly 24 hours per day in society actually can generate and exacerbate sexual fetishes. It is because of the fact that clothes hide the body and thus we often imagine those we are attracted to naked and as is the imagination we tend to exaggerate and emphasize body parts that are fetishized. Thus when a sexualized and fetishized body part is revealed it creates tension and excitement towards said body part thus strengthening the neural rooting of the fetish.

    People who have been nudists for some significant length of time generally do not get horny at the sight of a naked person because they realize that the human body is not intrinsically sexual. Additionally these people spend a significant amount of time naked every day and are around naked people quite often as well. Thus they are desensitized to nudity. They do not have to imagine those they are attracted to naked as they are usually already unclothed. Because of this, sexual stimulation leading to arousal only occurs when their partner explicitly behaves in an erotic and specifically sexual way towards them. In truth it’s the psychological aspect, the hormones and the sexual behaviors which get the act of sexual intercourse going for people who do not have entrenched sexual fetishes. Now I am in no way at all saying that being naked all of the time will desensitize one to their sexual fetishes. Nor am I saying that nudists are not subject to circumstances that can cause the formation of sexual fetishes. I am saying that because so many fetishes are linked with nudity in some way due to the fact that we wear clothes almost all of the time, it is beneficial to actually have a mindset that is desensitized to nudity as this would greatly diminish the potential for the formation and strengthening of sexual fetishes.

    With this being said while a sexual fetish can become deeply rooted into one’s psychology it is not impossible to dissolve from one’s mind. Being that the overwhelming majority of fetishes are the result of early onset childhood sexual imprinting, if one manages to find the deep imprint that it is connected with then they can consciously work through the fetish and eventually no longer be stimulated by it. Most fetishes have a deep intrinsic link with emotions. These consist of but are not limited to things like attention, stress, security, control and approval. Because of their intrinsic emotional root, the cause of a fetish can be identified if one manages look deeply enough and mentally work through whatever circumstance may have led to the development of said fetish.

    In truth if not for childhood stresses causing sexual imprinting, overexposure to pornography, cultural and social preferences and our clothed society, sexual fetishes in all likelihood would not exist. Fetishes result in behaviors that are very strange and sometimes even detrimental and destructive to one’s body and mind. I mean you’ll have grown men having sex and sucking the breasts of their female lovers. Is that really natural? No. It’s the result of a fetishized body part having an emphasized attraction towards it. I suspect the reasons why people passively accept sexual fetishes are because firstly, society says it’s ok as long as it is not harming you or anyone else, and that we all have our weird thing that sexually turns us on. Secondly sexual fetishes result in sexual pleasure as the end result. So even if the fetish is harmful in some way, is in direct conflict with one’s core values, or is just inconvenient since it generates pleasure as an end result of indulgence it is accepted as just a part of who someone is. Lastly sexual energy is extremely powerful and when we are in the act of having sex or masturbating we are quite literally in an altered state of consciousness, especially when we reach climax and orgasm. It’s almost hypnotic as time is of total irrelevance and one’s awareness is entirely present in the act. Due to the power of sexual energy it can cause even the most logical and rationally minded people to come down to their base animal instincts and let the subconscious mind take over; and in this state of consciousness do whatever it takes to obtain that sexual pleasure and eventual orgasmic release. And this is why it is so difficult to dissolve sexual fetishes that have been a part of someone’s sex life for years. The association between the object of the fetish and sexual stimulation is well established and very strong in the mind.

    Don’t listen to anyone who tells you that you can’t overcome a sexual fetish. You can. However it is going to be a long process that at times will be extremely difficult because sexual energy is a very difficult thing to handle if one is having to undo several years of crimped flow due to an out of alignment fetish. It will require very deep digging within one’s self and facing some demons; however if you stay the path and continue to work through these things eventually you will no longer be sexually stimulated by the fetish you have. This is great news for those who have sexual fetishes that are in direct conflict with their core values and beliefs. Sexual energy is extremely powerful as it is the energy of creation. For many with fetishes that are inconvenient, conflict with core values or are harmful this flow of sexual energy has been in a crimped flow. Additionally the sexual issues of society at large do not help this at all; it often makes things more difficult. Also the fact that sex has been taboo for so long makes it something that is even more enticing. This can also build up sexual frustration and play a part in the formation of fetishes.

    Please let me know your thoughts on this subject. I would love to get feedback on this. I would like to expand my knowledge and base of information regarding this subject and while I have read books on sexual psychology I have yet to read anything specifically on how natural or unnatural sexual fetishes are. If anyone knows of any books, documentaries or other resources that could help me to learn more on this subject, or just books you think I should look into, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Have an amazing day!
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
    Pete McVries likes this.
  2. lookingahead

    lookingahead To restore my inmost being. Staff Member

    I really like this post. I got a lot from it. It almost seems like our lusful tendencies are a result of suppressing our natural selves from the world. It doesn't seem right that the sight of a naked human being should create a drug-like, mood altering high like cocaine. It's like the entire human species has become a race of prudes. And I agree with your assertion that arbitrarily treating certain body parts as "unviewable" is what creates this impulse to act out compulsively. This may be why porn is most watched and produced in the US more than any other part of the world, yet the US is more prudish when it comes to nudity, as opposed to Europe where public showers and nudity is a part of daily life. Maybe the cure for society's suffering relating to sexuality is to be more accepting of the human body.
    Pete McVries and nexusoflife like this.
  3. nexusoflife

    nexusoflife New Member

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I’d like to address something that you said.

    It doesn't seem right that the sight of a naked human being should create a drug-like, mood altering high like cocaine”.

    This sentence right here is near perfect. Gave me a bit of a laugh too. Haha. But it is quite unsettling that humans can have such extreme reactions to the sight of the body. We have grown so accustomed to seeing people clothed that we don’t even know how to respond to someone not wearing them. I feel that this is one of the most important factors of sexual response because unfortunately the majority of people (in western culture at least) equate nudity with sex when the two really aren’t related. Unfortunately the majority of people have become prudish due to cultural influence and are confused in regards to nudity and sexuality.

    That is also a good point. The less we subconsciously sexually repress ourselves and learn to see the human body as just a biological machine the more quickly we will be able to address many of the problems relating to sexuality especially regarding the creation of fetishes. It would also help if more research was done in this area.
  4. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    In the Hellenic times the nudity was natural, even celebrated. We have to thank judgmental and oppressive monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) of all the hate, shaming and prudish nature towards nudity and sexuality in general, which have given rise to all kind of perversions like porn.
  5. nexusoflife

    nexusoflife New Member

    Exactly. Sexual repression is never the answer. In general suppression of any kind typically leads to problems. The Greeks certainly got that part of society right. It is quite a shame to live in a world subject to the aftermath of such repressive religious systems. It seems that the reach of the ideologies of these systems has pervaded western culture and society globally on a subconscious level. People simply cant understand that a naked body is just a body. You sum it up perfectly pornography is just one of many perversions and negative cultural mutations stemming from sexual repression. The world would indeed be a better place if there was a fundamental understanding of sexuality and people were not conditioned to be shameful and confused in regards to sexuality.
  6. Immature

    Immature Member

    Actually, if the question is: "How can we best harness male energy for the profit of society?" then sexual repression is exactly the answer. Societally imposed monogamy is a form of repression, but look at what it does: instead of all the women fucking the top 10% or 15% of men, (which is their natural desire), and ignoring the rest, nearly every man has a chance to have a wife and family. Contrast and compare how hard men will work in that situation, as opposed to men who are single and know that they will continue to be so. Monogamy lets every man have skin in the game.

    And really, it is the end of empires that are associated with free sexuality, depravity and gender-bending activity. Look at the Romans. We are certainly not more repressed than Americans in the 50s - but we are definitely kinkier - even without the porn.

    You can talk of the horrible repression of the monotheistic religions - but it is exactly those cultures that fueled the Renaissance, and the Industrial Revolution. I suspect that that is not accidental.
  7. nexusoflife

    nexusoflife New Member

    You're thinking more along the lines of sexual transmutation than sexual repression. They're fundamentally different. Transmutation is taking the sexual energy present within and using it in a way that benefits not only yourself but others as well. This is pretty mush what you have just described. Sexual repression is holding back one's sexual desires and essentially demonizing sexuality typically due to confusion. People will always rebel against repression in some form. Additionally the reason monogamy is so widespread is primarily because it is a social norm which people simply accept as a part of society. I'm not saying that there is anything fundamentally wrong with it at all. However if we lived with a different social paradigm such as polyamory for example then monogamy would not hold as much precedence. I think you would like the book "Sex at Dawn." It goes more into this subject. Additionally women can also struggle with porn addiction and unhealthy fetishes as well. It would be more accurate to ask "How can we transmute our sexual energy for the benefit of all peoples?" While I m not religious I do agree that it's influence has not been all bad and I agree with you that its influence has helped to grow and develop cultures however, everything has positive and negative aspects and in terms of sexuality the negative aspects that abrahamic religions have had on society in that area cannot be overlooked.
  8. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Well-Known Member

    Immature makes good points.

    Another point is that if the "throw off sexual repression" ideology had validity, then those who have genuinely thrown it off should exist in a perpetually blissful state. But, we as porn addicts have an insight to how it is... it just escalates and skates out of control. I've seen/met many people who claim that their openness leads to a blissful state, but I'm yet to be convinced of it, as these people seem to often by kinda unhappy, neurotic and/or angry much of the time. The paradigm of perpetual revolution coming out of the 18th/19th centuries kinda needs to go away, but it really is doing damage to our understanding of sexuality. I always kinda liked the movie Chasing Amy for this reason. It explores the feedback loop of "this makes me uncomfortable, so I need to be more open" thoughtfully through its characters. I haven't seen it in a while, though.

    It is also worth noting that when we talk about the "horrible repression of the monotheistic religions" we aren't talking about all views. In Christianity, the dominant view is not one of repression; better terms would be "refinement" or "right ordering". The really repressive puritanical stuff is largely a fringe idea, though early American brands of Protestantism are mostly founded on these sects, in part thanks to John Calvin, but it gets more complicated than that. Add to that the bizarre caricatures of those times further underscoring the horrible repression as seen through 20th/21st century eyes, and you're to another level of fringe (Handmaid's Tale is fiction inspired by politics, not real history). Again, look at things like "theology of the body", and you'll see what I mean: Christianity has a distinct sexual philosophy as complete as any philosophy you'll find.

    Another thought: Healthy eating doesn't mean starving yourself. But, it also doesn't mean stuffing yourself and eating everything. In fact, if we simply let cravings guide us, we'll stuff ourselves with lots of empty calories, simple carbs, processed foods, etc. Simple carbs actually mess with hormones in the liver, and that is why you can eat more than you need and still feel hungry. The latest round of diet experts understand that once you start eating healthy food, you start CRAVING healthy food. You aren't "repressing" a love of cupcakes and greasy cheeseburgers, you're just retraining your body to want what is ultimately good.

    Take it another step... imagine that instead of eating food, you stared at pictures of food online while sucking your thumb. Imagine if more boys and men did this than didn't. How strong would our understanding of food be? We'd need a serious reset of what we think food is. Or, in our terms, "rebooting".
  9. Immature

    Immature Member

    This post is probably off the main topic of this thread.

    But the only way I see to implement it is to deny people the expression of some of their natural sexual urges. And that was done by threatening people with eternal damnation, slut-shaming, and other such means.

    Maybe there is another way to do it. One would hope so. But I'm guessing that, if so, it would have been found by now.

    I am an Agnostic. But I despair of humanity finding anything that is as effective as a religious upbringing in making Homo Sapiens act like actual decent human beings. With all the faults one can find with religion - and there are plenty, I have no illusions - I think this is true.

    Per Wikipedia:
    Sexual repression is a state in which a person is prevented from expressing their own sexuality. Sexual repression is often associated with feelings of guilt or shame being associated with sexual impulses.[1] What constitutes sexual repression is subjective and can vary greatly between cultures and moral systems. Many religions have been accused of fostering sexual repression.​

    I'm not for people being "prevented from expressing their own sexuality." What consenting adults do in private is their business, not mine or anybody else's. I'm just saying that there were reasons for the old traditions, and for certain rules and restraints.

    They accept it because it was drilled into them, for generations, by religious and other institutions.
    But then all the women are with the top 10% of men, and close to 100% of men will be extremely lazy and unmotivated.

    Certainly. And it seems that many/most men will only be as devoted as women require them to be. (I'm guilty as charged.) But building and maintaining civilization has generally been men's work. Construction and maintenance of infrastructure - the dirty, sweaty, hard jobs that don't happen in air-conditioned cubicle farms, and where men sometimes die on the job - these are overwhelmingly done by men.

    The invention of those infrastructures has also been overwhelmingly a male job. The difficulty of luring women into STEM fields - with no barriers and, of late, large incentives - suggests that that is not an accident or a fluke of history.

    Ditto fighting wars of defense. Our societies are too gynocentric to tolerate women coming home in body bags. (Gynocentrism arises because sperm is absurdly abundant, eggs are far less so, and childcare is hard work, if done right. Plus breast-feeding, (until the 20th century, and even now, breast-feeding is still vastly superior).)

    This isn't to say that women don't matter - just that men being highly motivated does matter a hell of a lot.

    Sure. I'll admit I have been terrible at transmuting my sexual energy into anything beneficial to anybody - that sort of comes along with landing here. If I can stop PMOing, maybe that will happen. Or maybe if I can transmute my sexual energy, I can stop PMOing.

    Everything is a trade-off.

    A society where blow-jobs and inter-racial marriage are illegal is not good.

    A society over-run with porn, promiscuity, and STDs - that's also not good.

    I'll admit that when I was growing up, "if it feels good, do it" was something I enthusiastically subscribed to. I thought the old "hang-ups" were for stupid old fogeys. If only I'd known.
  10. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Well-Known Member

    I don't think talking about sexual repression is off topic if we decide that fetishes could come from sexual repression.

    It is worth noting that the concept of sexual repression is distinctly Freudian. Freud was a genius and gave us lots of insights, many of which we haven't taken full advantage of. He did also over think many things and over apply certain ideas, and we need to be careful not to do the same. As he himself supposedly once said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

    Exactly. My worry is that this basic dialogue is more and more difficult to have. People are too "triggered" by things that are either from the opposite camp, or that they deem to be an attack. It is also the habit of discourse (especially in the US) to feel a need to run to an extreme with an idea. The "via media" (middle way) is often the correct one, but we prefer extreme left or extreme right, red vs. blue, or whatever.
  11. Immature

    Immature Member

    Yeah I'm hoping I don't come off that way. I know that sometimes i am over the top.

    I feel like I wasted so much of the life I could have had - because when it came to the traditional Notions of sexuality and restraint, I threw out the baby with the bathwater.
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  12. Immature

    Immature Member

    What a spectacularly apt and degrading metaphor. (Or is it an analogy?) And it needs to be degrading, because what it discusses is degraded.
  13. DoneAtLast

    DoneAtLast Well-Known Member

    Nah, you didn't come off that way. I responded as such because I felt we were on the same page on that.

    Humanity, but especially in the US, tends to work as a system of actions and reactions, and they seem to become more and more extreme as time goes on. There are some rather extreme, bizarrely intricate ideas about sexuality out there right now that are essentially useless.

    Indeed, we had some ideas of sexuality that needed to be thrown out, but many were awfully good. I'm guessing you're a baby boomer from your posts, at least a later one. The sexual revolution made your generation an awful lot of bold promises.
  14. Saber

    Saber New Member

    Fetishes definately come with porn. I started vanilla and hated seeing ANY guy at all. Eventually I became more tolerant of seeing dicks, transexuals etc. Anyone who says fetishes can't be created is very wrong.

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