Discussion in 'Erectile Dysfunction / Delayed Ejaculation' started by Gibson, Mar 31, 2013.
One of the first few things that I did when I had ED issues was visit a doctor due to the insistence of the girl I was seeing. I took numerous blood tests and my testosterone, DHEA, Prolactin, etc were all at healthy levels. This urologist told me point blank, "You have no physiological issues that could cause ED." Sexual exhaustion is a physiological issue.
I have been rebooting with/without women for the last 14 months with 3 or 4 streaks around 30 or 40 days and then I would orgasm a few times in the next month. I also had one streak where I went around 60 days and then orgasmed another 2 or 3 times that next month. Other than those reboots, I've been masturbating roughly 1 to 2 times a month depending on the month. I am nowhere near where I want to as I failed with a girl a few weeks back. Anxiety has never been a problem for me as I don't get hard and lose erections. I just don't get them since I am never aroused.
A lot of guys on here have gotten wet dreams which occurs when your body has elevated DHEA and testosterone. Wet dreams show that your body is far from sexual exhaustion. In fact, those who are having wet dreams need to orgasm whether it be with a woman or by one's hand. I had a wet dream last night and my mood/libido is generally the same.
As someone who has a neurobiology background, I can vouch for the science behind what Gary discusses. I am just surprised you can't either. In fact, I would think that medical school would have some neurobiology classes that discuss action potentials to learning and memory to neuroplasticity. Also, I can't think of anyone who went to a reputable medical school who uses anything other than pubmed, textbooks, or colleagues for medical information. If you're going to discuss medical information that is outside your expertise, you better damn well have solid sources to cite what you talk about.
You can check it all out in Pubmed, I've given correct information and very well known in medicine. Nothing new or special.
The porn part is my own conclusions. Its not hard to connect porn as the same thing with edging, masturbating or having sexual thoughts, or seeing real women naked constantly. Same effect.
What I wonder, why you dont seem to question some of the principals thought here. For example 90 days absistence needed for recovery. I recall even Gary saying
that it is just his own 'experience' how long people need to recover. However, it doesnt have any scientific evidence backin it up.
Actually, 90 days without ejaculating is unhealhty. Ask any urologist. Quite common sense. And it is one reason I would like to share these thoughts. I see people at forums and yourbrainonporn telling how they have gone even a YEAR without sexual activities, and some of then see no improvement. This is just sad.
If you are not severly overweight, have history with drug or alcohol abuse, and you dont see any improvement after a month, you have a problem. Some cases need 2 months, probably less than 5% of all cases. 95% see improvement after 2-4 weeks. If you dont see improvement after 2 months, you should definitely go for blood test, check free testosterone, total testosterone. Also check the common silent causes of ED, diabetes and hypothyroidism. After 2-3 months it is just sad people think "i need more time to recover from this addiction". Actually, their system could have had shut down after 3-12 months, leading to zero libido...and they keep going, keep going. :-\
So the porn reboot has no scientific evidence but we should put no ejaculation for 90 days being unhealthy under common sense?
You can't simply say it is all on pubmed and leave us dry. Put up some links to nature and science articles that decisively say one thing or the other. Science and research is all about questioning current theories, but you can't simply disregard an idea that has not been proved invalid by the medical community.
I have questioned the reboot. You can't rule anything out right off the bat. I have always been open to the idea of sexual exhaustion playing a role in this. It has become more and more clear that it is not a factor in my reboot. All the tests I have taken have ruled out sexual exhaustion. The wet dream just proved that sexual exhaustion is clearly not the case. I have also considered diet, lifestyle, psychological issues, etc. You can't rule anything out. The first test I took was to check my prostaglandins, TSH, and FSH which would indicate if my thyroid gland and pituitary gland were the issue. I was perfectly healthy so you once again misassumed and were incorrect again.
The fact of the matter is. 2-4 weeks hasn't helped many people who are going through this issue. If your idea of how to reboot was correct, I would have been healed last summer while I was dating multiple women. As is stands, I am still stuck in this mess. Before you use drug abuse or my lifestyle as an excuse for my issues, do know that I am active 3 to 4 days out of the week, have an active social life, and have a job and hobbies that makes me really incredibly happy.
Gary's on a long call, so I'm going to sneak in here.
Gibson, your spin is annoying. Gary has never had a porn problem, so he certainly never said 90 days was from his experience. In fact, he never suggested the 90-day approach. It evolved on NoFap and is probably an outgrowth of experience guys had in 12 Step groups.
The first men with severe porn-related problems who showed up on my site (which predated his site www.yourbrainonporn.com) were generally IT experts in their 30s. They recovered in less than two months. That's what we shared with the next guys who showed up.
Gradually, however, guys showing up with porn-related problems got younger and began to need increasingly long periods of time to recover. Something more than "sexual exhaustion" (or any other label you care to use) is going on for many of them. These kinds of persistent symptoms have not been seen before on such a large scale. They don't fit the old Chinese/Ayurvedic models.
Incidentally, if guys can recover with occasional orgasm, great. Older guys (who wired their sexuality prior to Internet porn) often recover from ED even with occasional orgasm with a partner. However, young guys who conditioned their sexuality to pixels often need longer and need to avoid orgasm entirely. We don't know why. Perhaps because they have to completely recondition their sexuality. Get a fresh start, wiring up anew to real partners.
I'll add that some *do* benefit from "kick starting their libido" after a few months. http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/started-internet-porn-and-my-reboot-erectile-dysfunction-taking-too-long We encourage them to find what works for them. We never encourage "strict abstinence only." It's their choice, depending upon their circumstances and experience. Some find they have to be quite strict for a while to make progress.
Various men who have attempted to reboot went to their urologists to ask if temporary abstinence was dangerous. The doctors consistently said "no." I even wrote a post about it because I knew the men on my forum were concerned. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201007/ejaculation-how-often-good-health I'm sure there are healthcare givers who have a different opinion, but it is wrong of you to pretend that you are stating the medical position about this.
It's fine if you want to sell your supplements. Some of them may even help some of the visitors here. But stop making up things about Gary just because you don't like what he has to say. Stick to the facts.
You haven't given correct information and there's no research to back up sexual exhaustion. I live on Pubmed. Please cite research to back up your claims about the specific neurotransmitter and hormone alterations described in your previous posts and by Dr. Richards.
Do you know something called "wet dream"?
Also, you didn't answer my question:
Perhaps there is both cases?
Don't want to take sides, but I can relate with "sexual exhaustion". I used to masturbate up to 6 times a day, everyday, with full hard-ons. Sometimes I'd kick 2 or 3 in a row, literally without getting off of the chair. Eventually, though, my erections got weaker, and after a few weeks fapping with a limp dick I realized I couldn't get it up.
I'm rebooting since Semptember (2012). I've relapse dozens of times, binged a in few, but never got back to my insane routine.
Today I can get it up with a few seconds of fantasy, without touching it. If I MO or PMO my erections get weaker, but other than that they're fine.
Didn't I recovered way too fast from PIED? I've never reached more than 22 days without O or more than 28 days without PMO.
So, any thoughts?
Oh, one more thing.
It seems that sleep, expecially Circadian rhythm plays a huge role for recovery. In my view this is one of the biggest reasons young men between 20-26
start to have ED problems. That age many young men are stuying in universities etc. and they tend to go hang in fron of pc very late and go to sleep very late.
Actually it is overwhelming how many young men who have developed ED have sleeping patterns such as going to bed between 1am-5am. No wonder they have low sex drive and ED. This same thing effects young women who complain having low sex drive. It is just more concrete with men as they have ED.
Found a very good youtube clip explaining the problem
Here is scientific evidence for sleep patterns and ED aswell
So, in short, some men who have been studying the winter with very poor sleeping patterns and when they get a summer job, their ED have been cured
within the first week of work. Sure, this take account for that the summer job is for example 8-16, or anything that forces the man to go to bed early.
This just might also play a role for those "older" men who tend to recover faster (according to gary) than young men, its because they have regular jobs and normal sleeping patterns.
hope this helps ! 8)
I want to sleep longer, but during addiction withdrawals problems with sleep are often, I can sleep usually five-six hours now, before withdrawal I slept around eight.
few weeks before i started this no pmo think i was going to bed at 4-5 am cause i was playing video games.... dude the more i read the more i see that i sabotaged myself...
Im dumb but fixing myself
2-4 weeks might be nice of course, but I cannot fully believe in them. Also, no morning wood yet or immediately disappearing and the erections are still kind of limp. And I had one wet dream - so maybe the exhaustion angle is not the right one, it may just all also play a part.
Does it really make much difference though when you are willing to quit porn and masturbation and only want to orgasm with a partner, apart from the different rebooting times?
Yes it does matter.
I'll state it once again - if you think masturbation caused your ED, then you may not eliminate porn use during your reboot or you may choose to go back to porn after your reboot.
What's more important is the millions of young men who have yet to develop problems or have yet to use internet porn. If we accept the sexual exhaustion model of ED/DE, then the next logical step is to believe that internet porn causes no problems. That is the current meme and we know it is false. Not only does it cause ED & delayed ejaculation, it also can cause morphing sexual tastes, loss of attraction to real partners, and for a few others increased social anxiety, brain fog, low motivation, etc.
Since the sexual exhaustion hypothesis cannot in any way explain chronic ED in healthy young men, or address any of the points I made in my first post, I'm not willing to let Gibson spin a tall tale.
Accepting "over masturbation" is not neutral - it completely eliminates Internet porn as a cause of any of the many problems its use generates - including sexually conditioning an entire generation.
This guy Gibson is so full of shit, for anyone who's on the fence with this. I'm twenty six, I masturbated (without porn) twice a day nearly every day through high school, started getting laid and dating in college, STILL masturbated on top of that, dated women where we would smash 3 or more times a day, every day. I have ejaculated buckets, had tons of sex, had tons of self sex and I was always rock hard even on round 3 or 4. At twenty four I took some 8 months of alone time started getting into porn tube sites a little before, became kind of reclusive and over the 8 months escalated into a full blown multiple tab, multiple times a day habit. Bam! next girl I date I have horrid Ed, spend the next year trying anything to fix it, only thing that helped my erections? Quitting porn. Thank you, Gary!
For anyone who thinks sexual exhaustion is the cause of your Ed, I am walking proof, when the brain is properly balanced , and there's a girl in front of you naked, it'll find a way to give you an erection even if you shoot dust when you cum. I know, I've seen the other side. Porn novelty has broken the brain in a way that masturbation and sex just can't.
To further make my point, I'd note that my it's only been about two weeks since O. I have been masturbating and having sex throughout my reboot with zero tolerance for looking at porn, and while its been slow going my erections, and sensitivity have improved dramatically where supplements, diet, doctors and other life style changes have failed.
The problem is porn. Sexual exhaustion is a lie designed to sell you worthless supplements that cost a fraction at the drug store than what SE websites try to sell them to you for.
So, seriously, Gibson, fuck off you money grubbing piece of shit. How dare you try and capitalize on the misery of these broken desperate people?
You claim you're trying to help, but the fact is that when our response is 'no that's not the problem I have, it's more like this.' You just ignore it, and relink to some shitty site where they make up 'science' and then sell you over priced vitamins.
This IS interesting and I am certainly willing to try anything within reason. Yes, when I was addicted to porn I often was up till 3-5 AM! Constantly. Even now I don't get to bed before 2. I take some naps during the day, but this probably is not beneficial really. I will certainly try to turn my clock around. I don't think 10 PM is realistic for many. After all, in the US the nightly news is on at 11PM in most places! I think before midnight is a decent goal.
Getting a routine with sleep seems like a good thing to do, even without PIED.
Thanks for sharing!
I have always had a good sleeping pattern ! I'm 24 and still have ed !
I changed my sleeping pattern a couple of years ago. It does make you feel better, but in my experience it didn't directly affect my libido. Also, the students mentioned were probably up all night watching porn.
Gary, could you chime in on this hard flaccid thing? http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=7947.0
I've haven't seen any mention of this on YBOP. What do you think of the supplements I mentioned in my last post?
Yep. Same here. 7 hours on a typical night. 8-10 on nights where I work out. Always been like that, especially in college where this became the issue.
I really don't have a comment. I'm not a urologist. If you have any concerns I encourage you to see a real urologist, and not take advice from Dr. Richards, who is not a urologist, and is trying to sell overpriced supplements.
First, the prices are at least 500%-1,000% higher than a local health food store. Second it's complete BS that these particular supplements could have any effect on PIED. I think fish oil is good thing, but its not going to cure PIED.
Just read Dr. Richards stream of consciousness physiology, with the 3 supplements imbedded within that you are asking about. It sounds really impressive, unless you are a physiology teacher. It's a load of crap.
Anyone who is thinking of going back to porn, or buying a bunch of supplements from Dr. Richards, please read this thread. Really get that Gibson/Dr. Richards has yet to address one point on my first post, and has yet to cite a single study to back up the above gobbledy gook that is plastered all over Cure-Erectile-Dysfunction.org
Not only does Dr. Richards not exist, his site stole all of their material from this "herbalove": http://www.herballove.com/articles/science-aftermath-sexual-exhaustion-how-excessive-ejaculation-causes-damaging-chemical
This is a new version of herbaloves's website. His original site was a lot like Dr, Richards, but with an enormous amount of material covering sexual exhaustion, and many links to supplements for sale. He even had a orgasm scale (1-7), pictures of he and his wife having a grade 7 orgasm.
It's all about the dollars.
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