Rewiring is a myth. * Must read for people 3+ years without porn and still flatlining*.

Update

I’ve just hit 90 days hard mode after a few false starts last year trying to practice karezza. Trying to practice karezza with my girlfriend has proven to be very difficulty for me because of PE, so after talking with my girlfriend I decided I’ll be continuing on this journey without sex. For guys who don’t have PE I think karezza could work, but unfortunately it can’t work for me. I’ve woke up a few times in the past 90 days with decent erections and morning wood. I’ve also had a couple of wet dreams. This is something that only happens to me when I abstain. I’m going to continue on this journey. I’ve recently found two new long flatline stories on reddit, which I’ve added to this post. One of them being 27 months!!

 

Yeah, I think you might be right that the flatline is probably PAWS due to the similarities. I've been rebooting since 2012, and I've never been able to make it past 2 months without orgasming. I've gotten to a point where I haven't watched porn in ages, but still kept a once a month masturbation habit. Sad to say, that only delayed me getting my libido back, but it did prove that masturbation and orgasms have to be cut out if you want to recover from this. And every month the addiction improved a little for me; cravings continued to get weaker each month, orgasms kept getting stronger and withdrawal symptoms became less bad, which probably is a sign of the dopamine receptors healing. On top of that, my penis feels sensitive to touch for a moment after being hard (from morning wood or cravings).

Even more odd is the fact that, even though my penis hangs lower now, it shrivels up when I do dopamine heavy activities like video games, similar to how it shrivels up after an orgasm, which pretty much indicates it has something to do with the dopamine receptors being screwed up since I'm not addicted to videos games (I only play them occasionally), and yet it still does the same thing to my penis that an orgasm does.

If you think about it, even though porn killed our libido, we're still attracted to women; we still want to date them and be in relationships with them. It's not like porn completely made us asexual to the point where we have to train our brains to be attracted to or fall in love with women again. The desire to be with a woman is still innate even though we can't get turned on. This fact alone tells me that it's possible to recover without rewiring since we never lose that attraction.

 

You’ve been rebooting since 2012 and still have a flatline?!?!?

 

Unfortunately, you are right in everything you write.
I have been in a flatline for 5 years !! No porn !! No masturbation, just sex with ed drugs unfortunately ..with my girlfriend.
Without ed drugsmy dick doesn't work ... The only change I felt after 2 months +of hard mode but it reached a single orgasm sex not porn !!!and everything went.
I am firmly convinced that that way I never heal if you continue even sex. I spoke with a tantra teacher who said the same thing ... I need 2 years hard mode after which I am allowed 2 orgasms per month !!! Otherwise ed will come back !!! It's a disaster ... that means I will never have a normal life !! And if you think it's only valid for me, you're wrong! She work with thousands of men we all functioned the same way!!!

 

How do U know if u need 2 years? U said u felt something at 2 months. Maybe if it was 4 months u would be cured

 

Yep, my reboot's consisted of mostly MO once a month (or once after reaching two months if I got lucky), and barely any rewiring during all that time. With each passing month the cravings for porn and masturbation got weaker, though, but it could've gone faster had I gone much longer than a one month or two at a time. The cravings I get for masturbation and orgasms are very weak now, though, so more easy to manage. Ever since I started journalling here again I finally managed to make it past two months for the first time, but my libido's pretty much dead at this point that I might as well place a tombstone on my crotch.

Here's the link to my old journal from 2013:

https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/on-road-to-becoming-a-better-person.13930/

As you can see I didn't post much back then, I barely had any motivation thanks to porn addiction draining the life out of me. I'm a lot more consistent now, though.

 

I felt something the first time I had an erection for years without manual stimulation, but it's far from what it should be ... and especially in the relationship it's nightmare the hardmode , is impossible ... and even if I do ... ed comes back not from the first but from the second orgasm ... what's the difference ???

 

This is a really interesting thread, which I am drawn to because of my own experience as a long term rebooter. I think that it makes sense to equate the flatline with the PAWS. However, only the sexual dysfunction symptoms are being mentioned on this thread, what about the host of other symptoms that are characterised by PAWS like anxiety, depression, brain fog and chronic fatigue? Are these long term rebooters that claim to suffer from withdrawal only experiencing these symptoms or just from ED?

I agree that too much emphasis shouldn't be put on rewiring. It seems to be for many that hard mode is the quickest way to recover. However, rewiring is also important too, particularly those like myself who have no sexual experience prior to using porn. A brain like mine can continue to crave for porn despite years of abstinence because it doesn't know any healthy alternative. The trouble is knowing when the right time is to put an end to hard mode and starting having healthy sex without risking delaying the healing of the brain.

I think that dopamine fasting from TV and games can be helpful particularly with the mind to make way for other interests and hobbies. However, nevertheless, speaking from experience complete abstinence from both can take the fun out of life and I have concluded that a little bit of pleasure is all part of the balance of recovery. Its also not always possible to steer clear of R-rated content on TV. Sex scenes will appear when we least expect them, and most quality TV nowadays have them, whether they are needed or not. I always do well to avoid them when I can because they are triggering, but to expect that I will completely avoid them is unrealistic and sets myself up for unnecessary stress. My addictive mind also has the habit of trying to persuade me to relapse when I am exposed to triggers like this, telling me that I have nothing to lose by looking at porn as I have already been exposed to something that I am trying to avoid. I believe that the key aim should be to avoid porn and masturbation. I have never seen a recovering sex addict recover with masturbation in the picture. I learnt this the hard way about two years ago when I relapsed to porn after allowing myself to engage in mindful masturbation a few months before.

 

I'm sorry to read that, it must have been very tough all these years; how did your ED issues start?

 

The same thing happens to everyone in my opinion, the first time there are problems with delayed orgasm or just with dirty fantasies.
Then a degradation of the erection quality begins but it is very slow proces and generally lasts for years in my case. Over time, we need more dirty porn and more and more manual stimulation for mantain an erection .
At some point there is nothing that excites you and not even on porn with manual stimulation erection very weak. You start to masturbate with a death dick or semierect penis !
At one point everything stopped, suddenly I didn't want to masturbate, I probably went into a flatline. My nervous system has crash !
This happened to me and I think to many on this site. The lucky ones who stopped in time. Unfortunately, I would never have thought that you could get here or that this excessive masturbation could cause such problems. I just didn't understand what was going on. My dick worked perfectly all the time before .
Unfortunately, the even bigger problem is that for me and many others , even after months or even years, there are no signs of improvement or healing !!!
So I highly recommend to all those who have not yet reached my situation to think well if pmo continues, because maybe after a point there is no way back !!!
I have been following this site for several years and I can say that there are very few ed healing success stories, compared to how many have written about their problems. It's not a toy and it can destroy your whole life even at 19 !!

 

I don't think anyone can predict the precise amount of time that the issue will be sorted. I think there is some value in ancient teachings like Tantra, but beware of anybody who likes to place a broad label on things. The reality is that we all recover in our own time. From what I have learnt over the years here, it seems to be that guys make the mistake during recovery of having too much sex before they are ready. I think hard mode is definitely the way to go, but its not a permanent solution. Experiment with how many times you O during sex and if something doesn't feel right, reduce the number.

 

Although NoFap is a nice tool, the problems won't solve if their roots are not worked on, that might be the reason many people are still not recovered, what have you tried so far over these years?

 

Agreed. While Gary's work in publicizing the role of porn in ED has been invaluable, the way the community has gone is to ignore all other possible causes. Everything done to fix it is only in relation to porn - limiting orgasms, There is a reason we got addicted to something to begin with and those reasons also impact our sexuality.

My latest theory is that rewiring isn't just about reconditioning a different response but also bout learning how to be sexual with girls in a broader sense which most people learn naturally when they're younger, however most of us miss out on this developmental stage because of PMO.

 

Very bad way of thinking and approaching things Alex.

Who told you that there were a number considered "normal" when it comes to having sex?

4 times a day can be normal..... once every two weeks is normal too. There are people who have sex only once a week, others have sex once a month and others have sex very occasionally when they have a oportunity (in cases of men singles for example or religious single men). Others very young can have sex all the days many times.

Can have sex only twice a month does not mean that you are an abnormal person, rare man or sick man or something like that. This is one of the first misconceptions you must address on the road to recovery.

 

if you suffer from anhedonia, social anxiety, low libido and ED for 3 years then regardless of porn, i think you're just depressed mate.

 

So by refraining from "sexual arousal" do you mean only sexual arousal from pixels or from a real person as well. I'm currently on hardmode and i believe I'm a case of paws as well, i also have a very understanding girlfriend who knows about the situation. I'm currently not having sex and have also cut down on intense sexual activities like fingering etc. But is kissing, cuddling or hugging okay, or should i cut down on that as well?

 

I'm currently doing nofap hardmode and i believe I'm a case of paws myself, now when you mentioned sexual arousal, do you mean sexual arousal by pixels only or sexual arousal by partner as well. I have a gf who knows about my case and is very supportive, I'm avoiding sex till i completely come out of flatline and get cured also I'm avoiding any intense sexual activities like fingering etc. My question is should i also avoid things like light kissing, hugging or cuddling as even these things would hamper the progress?