"Refuse to date men who watch porn"

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by NewTerritories, May 28, 2017.

  1. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    This is a slogan being promoted by feminists. I want to ask the dudes here: what do you think about this?

    Here's some graffiti/street art spreading this meme, from Untameable Shrews:

    https://twitter.com/untamableshrews/status/866257110580944896

    Here they use the #PornKillsLove hashtag, a slogan used by Fight the New Drug, a Mormon-founded but non-religious anti-porn advocacy and education organisation. You've probably heard of it.

    Here's some more Shrew art:

    https://twitter.com/untamableshrews/status/867330416708956160

    So! How about that? The messaging is harsh. It's not trying to be nice and gently persuade men. But they have some messages that could be aimed at men too, like this: "Watching porn causes erectile dysfunction".

    I wrote a bit about this in my post on sex robots.

    Some ideas:
    1. If I'm dating, then I don't want to be watching porn. And I am, so I'm not. So on the basic level, I should have no problem with these messages. The purpose of the messages is to encourage women collectively to be less tolerant of porn. If we're not using porn, and most men are, doesn't this give us an advantage?
    2. If an individual woman has a preference for non-porn-users, she might decide that this is a deal-breaker, a standard that men must meet for her to consider them worthy of dating. This discrimination is, of course, her prerogative.
    3. Why do they spread the message? Why not just personally decide not to date porn-users? Because they think holding to this standard is beneficial to other women pursuing relationships, and that the issue goes beyond personal preference.
    4. Take the individual woman in point 2. She might find that her dating options are severely limited, because porn is so popular. So she might choose to compromise: to date a less attractive man who doesn't watch porn. Or accept a porn-watcher who happens to be considerably higher-calibre in other respects.
    5. Therefore: they want a critical mass opposed to porn. Strength in numbers. Shift the market power in their favour. So: a call to collective action.
    If this meme picks up steam, and porn-watching men find themselves increasingly being rejected for their habit... it'd be interesting to see what happens. Would porn-watching decrease? Seems that's the intention of the campaign. But instead, maybe more men would go MGTOW. Women could find themselves competing over a smaller pool of eligible males. Possibly, in response, more women would take the WGTOW option (or switch to lesbianism--and maybe this is the campaign's true purpose!). Individual women would also have the option to choose to tolerate men's porn-watching, and this would give them an advantage in the dating market.

    Everyone, of course, has the right to pick and choose who (not) to date. Everyone's free to discriminate. Nobody has a right to date anyone who doesn't want them.

    I'm not pro or against this messaging. I don't know where it'll lead.
     
    freeman35 likes this.
  2. Wabi-sabi

    Wabi-sabi Imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

    We all know, deep down inside, what terrible partners porn has made us: not just PIED but emotionally absent.

    I can't judge other guys for doing what I've done, but I feel these people have a point. Anyway, anything that gets the general public talking about porn addiction should be welcomed.

    What's more - as you point out - guys that have rebooted will have a tremendous advantage over Joe Sheeple.
     
    freeman35 likes this.
  3. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    Wabi is correct. If, whether a male or a female partner is absent during the relationship, it's time to abort ship before things get worst.
     
  4. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    I suppose that I support the intention and the messaging.

    It does make me a bit uncomfortable for some undefined reason. I think that it may have something to do with a feeling that women want to shame men for their sexuality while not applying any moral limitations to their own. I think that it is the "love your vulva" thing that initiated this reaction. Women don't always understand all the pain that men experience due to their sexuality. For us it's a mixed blessing at best. Not always some pure and joyous celebration. I doubt that they would understand the agony that leads me to think of self-castration.

    On the other hand, abstaining from porn is much easier than any other thing that you could do to make yourself more attractive to women. It is comforting to think that their is a well-defined path towards making myself more appealing than other men.

    Not all women would agree with this message. Some women try to make themselves like porn because they think that their boyfriends will think it's hot. Feminists as a group are a bit confused about porn. Some think that porn can enrich a couple's sex life. There is also the minority of women who are addicted to porn, although usually a different type than what men would watch. I say whichever woman says not to date a man who watches porn should also speak out against women watching "50 Shades of Grey", or even "The Batchelor" for that matter. I am bothered by the one-sided, accusatory form of feminism which makes no attempt to understand men's struggles or have compassion for men. Something more nuanced like "Confront your husband about his porn use and leave if he won't acknowledge the problem" would be better.
     
    Boxer17 likes this.
  5. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Dude, don't cut off your balls!

    I feel you on finding radfem invective distasteful. I've been there. Though exposure and understanding, I've learnt to accept them how they are. (Without joining them, I hasten to add!)

    I advise you thus, in the spirit of brotherhood: don't look to radical feminists if you're looking for compassion for men. That just ain't their business. If you demand that from them... you'll invite only harsh mockery and frustration. Of course they're one-sided, it's in the name. They don't care that it bothers some men. Bothering men is an integral part of their strategy!

    It's all well and good to critique their approaches on the basis of effectiveness, truthfulness, and perhaps some near universally-acceptable ideas of justice. But if they're revolutionaries, and they claim they are, they're not going to be even-handed.

    For sure. But let's not oversell it. In and of itself, being porn-free can't be an attractor. But it might tend to be accompanied by other an increase of the attractive qualities that are strengthened through better self-control. So we can't just not fap. It's all about doing other stuff.
     
  6. Imfree

    Imfree Active Member

    Of course, I couldn't really bring myself to do that. However as a conservative estimate, I would say that about 50% of my life has been unpleasant and that the root cause was my genitals whereas my genitals probably caused truly good feelings in something like .001% of my life. I try to find some meaning in the suffering. I believe in reincarnation and that I have to work through this and learn something from it now or later and that it is unavoidable.
     
  7. Striveforpurity

    Striveforpurity All praise and glory to our Lord Jesus Christ.

    This is actually a true form of feminism and not the fake kind that promotes nakedness/sexual promiscuity.
     
  8. LookingToQuitNow

    LookingToQuitNow New Member

    I have read their Facebook group before and found it to be very anti-male. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I wouldn't want to be associated with misandry, but rather focus on my recovery.
     
  9. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Interesting thesis. But women use porn too, so wouldn't it weaken them also? Thus promoting worship of men and patriarchy? Maybe biological differences make porn more of an impediment to male brains than female ones.

    Here's something that might resonate, HeyRevolver, from a not-very-feminist blog:

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2017/08/28/porn-lowers-mens-real-life-standards/

    These are empirical matters. But in this political climate, I think it'd be hard to do and publish sound research in this area.

    It should be noted that feminism is a broad church, many are grounded enough to accept the fact that most women are straight. Some nutters are against straight relationships, but that's not all of them. So, let's call them the sane ones, they're in favour of men being psychologically healthy! Porn-free men are (theoretically) better lovers. And better feminist allies. And probably more economically productive workers, and so on.

    If there are any feminist speakers with an open stance of 'fuck men, let them totally fuck their lives up with porn' I'd be interested to examine their words.
     
  10. Wabi-sabi

    Wabi-sabi Imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

    I actually think feminism has become harmful to women over the last couple of decades. It's basically another set of impossible to achieve standards against which women judge each other.

    It's actually divisive rather than empowering. How should feminists accept women that marry a rich guy, or who take a career break to be stay-home mom? Also it fails to realize that the average woman aspires to be in a relationship with a man, and likely start a family.

    Kind of like the Stop Wall Street protesters a few years back clamouring about low pay. . . actually, they wanted more capitalism. More spending power!
     
    Boxer17 likes this.
  11. Mr. Tony

    Mr. Tony Life is like a game of chess.

    I have to agree 100%.

    When we watch porn, we are actually indirectly making feminism grow. Porn wants men sedated and ignorant to what really goes on. That is why I am looking to snap out of my addiction. Especially to softcore stuff like twerking videos and the like. Those are like the Greek mythological siren that gives a call, innocent, yet very seductive and distracting. And they have led to me crashing (relapsing).
     
    User2044 and freeman35 like this.
  12. freeman35

    freeman35 Active Member

    We have to focus on our own situation and acknowledge, as has already been said, that a porn addict does not a decent partner make, in any circumstance. Having said that, I think that their slogan 'men who watch porn have no respect for women' is incorrect. For one thing there are some females addicted to porn also. So they are being chauvinist there.
     
  13. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Maybe those females don't respect women either. But of course they're chauvinists.
     
  14. Hanai

    Hanai New Member

    The advice is good, girls would be wise to avoid men who watch porn.

    That group, though, appears to be very disturbed.
     
  15. User2044

    User2044 Guest

    On one hand it may stop some males from watching porn, but I really think it will end up in more net porn being viewed by males. The anti-feminists will likely think "fuck you, I'm watching more porn". The male feminists will continue to watch porn because they're mostly sneaky males who are only feminists to get pussy, but can't regardless.

    I wouldn't date a female who watches porn. I wouldn't want my sister dating a male who watches porn.

    I also wouldn't date a female if she were a feminist,

    So win-win for me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2017
    TheScriabin likes this.
  16. TheScriabin

    TheScriabin Well-Known Member

    "Is she a feminist? Then doesn't love you!"

    How To Dump Your Feminist and Find A Realist - by The Scriabin, available at all good book stores.
     
  17. once again women making the addiction to porn about themselves and their insecurities...nothing to see here
     
  18. freeman35

    freeman35 Active Member

    Feminism was invented by women who were denied the vote. This is not those women.
     

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