Porn-Free June 2019! Commit here.

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by YBR-Admin, May 31, 2019.

  1. Tyr

    Tyr New Member

    I just discovered this thread. Though I PMO'd on the 6th of June I commit to hard-mode for the rest of the month.

    William. I intend to read more of your posts, I appreciate your insight.

    I do also believe hard mode is borderline mandatory for proper recovery. An anecdote - my longest absence of P use was approx. 110 days (MO every other week). In terms of energy, brainfog, libido and mental health it felt similar to 30 day hardmode streaks. In terms of symptoms, my cleanest period ever of 2 months hardmode completely blew 110 days no P (with MO) out of the water.

    William, achieving 1 year of hardmode is legitimately monk level abilities of control. This is a big aspiration of mine, I feel I must swear off P, M and Women for a year to recover - I include Women because right now I would only be engaging with Women to feed the same void that I have allowed to expand through P and M. What do you attribute most to this accomplishment?.. Perhaps you have a post somewhere you could direct me to where you touch on this?

    Thanks
     
  2. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    @Tyr. Thanks for your kind words.

    Ultimately, the reason I am free is that I refused to be a slave. By the time you get to porn addicted, you are a slave. I said "no". So, I am no longer a slave. "No" totally sucked, but was necessary. It is easy now, it wasn't then. Know going in, there is no easy way out. But there is a way out.

    We do not wake up one day addicted. It takes time and effort to become addicted.

    I have a couple posts you could browse that pretty much address it all.

    http://www.rebootnation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1256.0

    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.p...get-tools-and-learn-to-love-withdrawals.2402/

    It helps to have a reason to quit. You need to find your reason. Hope you post here more. It helps.

    Luck.

    Much love.

    W.
     
    Tyr likes this.
  3. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    Day Eight, HardMode.

    Porn addiction is relatively new.

    Addiction itself is relatively new.

    Not that addiction was impossible until recently, but only recently has it been available for a large segment of the poplulation.

    When I say "relatively recently", in the case of porn I mean around 15 years, because it was only then we invented it, we being humanity; that is approximately when we invented High Speed Internet Porn. Yes, porn has been around since a teenage cave man drew tits on the wall of his cave, the ability to utilize artificial sexual stimulation to achieve a dopamine/opioid reward event, that we love, is as old as the earliest homo sapiens, and may preexist them. But addiction to porn is relatively recent.

    All animals have evolved behavior that, for that animal, is a survival trait.

    Addiction is the opposite of a survival trait. Our brains are wired to seek the dopamine/opioid reward it gets from thinking about sex, because that leads to sex, and sex leads to babies. So, when you ask yourself, why do I have to fee these feelings, the answer is: because nature wired you to, because nature figured out this was a very efficient way of making you make more of you.

    Addiction is not naturally occurring. It occurs only when it is available. Take alcohol. While it is likely our ancestors found fermented fruit to eat from time to time, the widespread production and availability of alcohol to a wide population only happened recently. Again, recently does not mean yesterday. Google "first homo sapiens", and you will see some place the age of us, our species, around 195,000 years old. Evidence of alcohol and alcohol abuse are only about 5,000 years old. In America I think an argument could be made that widespread alcohol abuse came about following the civil war, in the 1860s. Though, that said, temperance movements appear to have begun in the early 1800s. AA began in 1935.

    There is a point in our history, not crazy long ago, where mass production of alcohol, or even just a little production of alcohol, was not happening. Guess what else was not happening: Alcoholism, and its treatment. Alcoholism was made possible because alcohol was available; widespread alcoholism came into existence with alcohol became widely available to a large segment of the population.

    I know, you are going to say that porn has been around for far longer, meaning it has been available. However, High Speed Internet Porn is different.

    AA and temperance movements came into existence as a response to alcohol abuse and alcoholism. I do not believe the phrase "porn addiction" existed prior to the widespread use of the internet. I googled the phrase "porn addiction" from January 1, 2004. You can do it as well, using the tools button. There were six links. 6. I googled the same phrase today, and Google says there are 85,400,000 hits for the same phrase. In 15 years the phrase "porn addiction" has gone from 6 google hits to over eighty five million. Why? What has changed? First the internet, then the development of High Speed Internet, then, about a second later, the development of High Speed Internet Porn. We have always liked thoughts of sex. Translation, we have always interpreted as "like" or "pleasure" the dopamine rush that thoughts of sex produce, and the opioid rush that orgasm produces, but High Speed Internet Porn makes having those thoughts exponentially more efficient. When we invented High Speed Internet Porn we invented a tool through which we could become addicted. If you can use it to get high you can use it to get addicted. Here is an excellent article on the topic.

    https://fightthenewdrug.org/how-porn-affects-the-brain-like-a-drug/

    It will help you to know what you are doing, and what you are fighting. Also helps to understand the history of your problem, and know its origin. To be most successful in quitting, porn must be de-mystified and understood. Too many guys think they are fighting an addiction to porn. They are not. They are fighting an addiction to the dopamine/opioid reward that High Speed Internet Porn makes so effortless to get, for long periods, multiple times a day, for years. Know your enemy or you are fighting with two legs tied behind your back, which is very awkward and makes you look stupid.

    Now, off to a wonderful evening with dinner and sex. While I recommend no sex during a hard mode reboot for guys who are virgins or have PIED, I fit neither of those categories, so sex is on the menu. There is hope for you; you can do this. If you are feeling hopeless, be hopeful. I was where you were once, but have been just fine for years. It can be done. You will have to pay the price, of course, for abusing your brain, but it won't kill you, it will just feel like it will.

    Much love.

    Will I AM.

    PS: Any one else want to post in the Porn free June section, would be appreciated. It's pretty lonely in here.
     
    Tyr and Mekkeren like this.
  4. Mekkeren

    Mekkeren Member

    Really nice stuff you are posting here William. Food for thought. Been trying to follow your advice of reconnecting with people and real life. And it is already paying off. Porn seems much less desireable and shallow. It can never replace the feeling of really connecting with someone.
     
    Gilgamesh likes this.
  5. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    @Mekkeren

    Thanks for the kind words.

    Porn is one of the ultimate disconnects. Porn addicts often find reconnecting with realty unpleasant, but, doing it is helpful to quitting. Porn is easy. Reality is...not so much. Can be good, can be bad. Getting back to interacting with humanity is one of the tools we use to quit porn. I am happy you are walking that road. Keep going. Porn is not an option.

    Much love.

    W.
     
    Gilgamesh likes this.
  6. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh Seize the day

    Thanks for another great post @WilliamOneAndDone. If I may ask, how to go from hard mode bsck to regular sex. Or maybe better, how do you know you have had enough hard mode abstaining before going back to having sex? Fyi, married and never had PIED, but notice that hard mode is better manageable than regular sex durinh reboot.
     
    Tyr likes this.
  7. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Active Member

    If I'm allowed to chime in, I felt 'ready' because my sensitivity was through the roof and it felt like my body was sending me all kinds of signals to procreate (after about 90 days of hard mode). I've been usually having sex 2-3 times during the weekends and I feel like that it isn't too much. Sex doesn't feel forced and my erections come naturally even though I'm taking 10mg (that's the lowest dose, 20mg is the max. dose) of cialis at the moment on fridays (as a mental crutch to be able to relax more). But I have had sex more than 56 hours after taking cialis and cialis only works 36 hours at max, so I don't think I need it at all. But it has been very helpful for me because I can't fail to have erections while being on cialis, right? At least, that's the lie I told myself to be able to relax. During my PMO days, the maximum dose of viagra wasn't enough for me to get an erection with a woman, so again, I don't think that the ED meds are affecting my erections directly but indirectly (mental relaxation). I'm planning to slowly ween off of cialis. I'm slowly becoming more routined/relaxed when it comes to sex and failing to get an erection wouldn't be traumatizing or the end of the world anymore. Hope this helps you or people who are planning to rewire.
     
  8. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    @Gilgamesh

    I recommend Hard Mode for those quitting. Hard Mode means no porn, no porn substitutes, no vanilla porn, no MO, no O, and for most, no sex. That is easy advice to give for guys who are not having sex, anyway, because they are virgins, are not hooked up, or cannot have sex, due to PIED. I am doing Hard Mode for this month, meaning I am absolutely avoiding all artificial sexual stimulation, for June. But, also, I am not "quitting". I quit a long time ago. I am not saying do not have sex during the reboot, if you can have sex during the reboot, but I do say, if you are not having sex going in, do the reboot without sex, as it makes quitting easier over that initial period. The purpose of quitting is not getting more sex, but quitting compulsive porn consumption. The two usually coincide. There will come a time when you are quit. After that, you can figure out where sex fits in your life. Getting more sex is not the goal of quitting porn. Quitting porn is the goal of quitting porn. After that, you can figure out who you are, sexually. Hard to know that when you are on porn.

    @Pete McVries

    Chime in anytime, and often. Your story is the classic recovery story. You are getting back to normal, factory settings, preporn brain reaction. Porn addiction is not the end of the world. It can be just a detour.

    Much love.

    W.
     
  9. Mekkeren

    Mekkeren Member

    But isn't it better to have sex during the reboot so that you wire yourself to make that more desirable instead of porn? (neurons that fire together wire together that idea)
     
  10. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    Hi @Mekkeren

    I think the short answer to your question is yes, however, "no" is an easy answer if the question is being asked by A) a virgin, and/or B) a guy with PIED. Neither of them is actually having sex for one reason or the other, so going all the way hard mode for them makes the reboot more efficient. As I think I said, if you have a partner and everything works fine, have sex during the reboot, but, be careful and don't let porn thoughts creep in when you are having it.

    Day Nine, Hard Mode.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Tyr likes this.
  11. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh Seize the day

    Thanks guys. It's about time for me and my wife to have sex again. We haven't had any cause of child birth and the lack of time and energy afterwards. It would be good for us though, to feel husband and wife again, instead of just parents. On the other hand I feel really comfortable with staying in hard mode abstainance. Sex will open the tap again and I am afraid of chaser effect. Especially cause I have such little sleep and relaxation and a lot of stress. I guess I will have to go with the flow and maybe be a bit more confident that I will be able to manage.
     
  12. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    @Gilgamesh

    Porn addiction has a lot of negative results, and not one good one. There are the obvious negative, physical, results, such as PIED or DE. But, socially, porn addiction at best distracts from sex, and at worse all but eliminates it. The simple reason is that porn is more efficient at producing the dopamine/opioid reaction we like so much, than sex. A lot of addicts come to prefer porn over sex. Some addicts consciously have given up on sex, and have built using porn into their daily "normal."

    Your story about child birth, lack of time, and energy is the same story I see with a lot of parents, when they beyond their "lovers" stage, and are in their "parents" stage. I am no expert in what a healthy sexual relationship is. I can say, from experience, that if you want a healthy sexual relationship, then having sex is going to be part of that. It's funny you mention the chaser effect. I don't think you will have that. There is a before porn addiction and after porn addiction. It does change the individual. You can get back to, more or less, normal, and for me normal was a healthy sex life and no porn. But, after I quit porn, I did not experience the chaser effect with sex. As a result, I have less sex, less often, than I did prior to becoming addicted. The sex is still good, I just want a bit less of it than before, and whereas before the addiction I might go three or four times, after the addiction, one time is pretty much the score. So, if you want a healthy sexual relationship, you better plan on having sex. If not, then not having sex is perfectly fine.

    Day 10. Hard Mode.

    Keep going, porn is not an option.

    Much love.

    W.
     
    Gilgamesh likes this.
  13. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Active Member

    I can second that regarding the chaser. I didn't experience the chaser effect once after having sex. Sure, sometimes I was horny the next day and in consequence had sex again but it wasn't an insane craving or so. Furthermore, I have gone two weeks without having sex (after starting to have regular sex/orgasms again) and it was really manageable. But I have to shamelessly admit that I came just after a few strokes when having sex again after abstaining for that 14 days period :D. The heck with it! No biggie, we laughed about it and the next round was a tad bit longer ;)

    There was a real shift in my mindset. I don't see sex as competitive sports anymore. I just enjoy the intimacy and make sure my partner enjoys herself and I truly enjoy the cuddling and the initimate conversations afterwards. No need for "porn performing". Nevertheless, I want to get "better" and there is a lot to be learned. Realistically, I just started having sex less than two months ago...
     
  14. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    Pushing forward. Day Eleven, hard mode.

    You are going to miss it, once you have given it up, until you don't miss it anymore. Then, once and a while, you will still miss it. But, you won't miss it so bad. And months go by when you won't miss it at all.

    It's OK. Come on over to this side. It won't kill you. Only feels like it will. :mad:

    Yes, I just posted an emodicon. Anyone else struggling, post here. You are not alone.

    Much love.

    Henry McCarty.
     
  15. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    Day Twelve. Hard Mode.
     
  16. selfdiscovery

    selfdiscovery New Member

    I'm in....I found this place after facing the fact that my longterm recovery source - no-porn.com - appears to be gone forever. I miss it greatly but believe I will find help here. I've been "in recovery" mode for the past 15 years but have had many slips along the way . Still, I bounce back up into the saddle, so-to-speak, and soldier on. Lately I've been weaker since I no longer have had no-porn to go to when feeling triggered. I miss my longtime-in-the-making recovery journal to reflect on...but...I like this place already and hoping to STAY STRONG, STAY SOBER. (This was my motto on the other website). Best wishes to all for a good month and beyond...
     
  17. selfdiscovery

    selfdiscovery New Member

    I like it...I was told on another support website that "P and MB are no longer part of your vocabulary...they have both run their course to the end".
     
    Mekkeren likes this.
  18. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    @selfdiscovery

    Welcome. I don't have a long term recovery source. I conceive of porn addiction as child of the internet, specifically High Speed Internet Porn. Gary Wilson of YBOP alludes to this in his famous video when he discusses the problem becoming prevalent and pronounced, as in a recognized problem, after the porn tubes came into existence. That is with High Speed Internet Porn, as opposed to dial up. Don't get me wrong, the species has found all forms of porn, or depiction of sex, fascinating, for a long time, but in the future I think addiction to porn will be seen as being especially trigger by High Speed Internet Porn. Something about never having to wait, immediate gratification, and endless novelty forms that dopamine/opioid brain reward that is the core of the addiction--that reward is what we are addicted to, not porn itself, per se.

    I don't monitor other forums so much, so I don't know about activity on them. I do know activity is low on this forum, by which I mean I can see a lack of participation on the forum, and have seen members and the YBR admin discuss it. Maybe that is a good thing, a good sign. I would like to think that, due to places like this, younger people have learned that watching porn can carry an unwanted price.

    Day Thirteen. Hard Mode.

    Much love.

    W.
     
  19. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    Eventually, quitting porn is like a morning ritual. You get up, have coffee, shave, brush your teeth, don't watch porn. It becomes a pattern.

    Oh, yeah, Hard Mode, Fourteen Days.
     
    Pete McVries likes this.
  20. WilliamOneAndDone

    WilliamOneAndDone Active Member

    Here is an interesting conversation starter.

    https://fightthenewdrug.org/3-lies-most-people-believe-about-porn-and-the-brain/

    First Section is entitled

    ERROR #1 – “Dopamine does not underlie addiction”


    The first thing it says is that dopamine is not addictive. I am no neurologist, but my theory is that everyone here is addicted to a porn induced dopamine rush. It is that rush, that feeling, we seek for when we engage in what is, IMO, incorrectly and inaptly called "porn addiction."

    By the way, this post is not critical, I am just trying to understand.

    Dr. Hilton qualifies his position by stating this: However, all experts in the fields of addiction or neuroscience acknowledge the central role of dopamine in addiction.

    He then goes on to say this:

    In fact, addiction cannot develop without high, but brief, bursts of dopamine in response to an addictive substance or activity. As experts Volkow and Koob explained in a recent paper, these dopamine surges elicit reward signals at a cell receptor level, which then trigger so-called Pavlovian learning. The molecular mechanisms that facilitate this process appear similar for all forms of learning and memory. Repeated experiences of reward (for example, consuming porn) become associated with the stimuli in the consumer’s environment that precede them.

    Dr. Hilton (not to be confused with Dr. Chilton, of Silence of the Lambs) goes on to say this:

    Although dopamine is sometimes thought of as a “pleasure molecule,” this is technically inaccurate. Dopamine drives seeking and searching for reward—the anticipation, the wanting. In some unfortunate people, this seeking deepens into the disorder known as addiction. The consumer’s desperate search for satiety (that eventually often proves fleeting or unattainable) progresses to the point of marked distress or significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

    I like Dr. Hilton, but he has both directly implicated dopamine as addictive, and, yet, defined it so narrowly, as to not be, that the distinction is difficult to recognize.

    Bottom line: Dopamine, aka the dopamine rush, response, high, reaction, etcetera, does underlie addiction, and in fact, that is what persons who call themselves porn addicts are actually addicted to.

    Second section is entitled

    ERROR #2 – “At a brain level, sexual activity is no different from playing with puppies”

    Absolutely right. Nature has wired the brain to reward different activities differently, because, to nature, certain activities are more valuable to the species. Making babies is probably the most valuable activity to the species. Nature does not, however, reward you making a baby. Nature has chosen to reward sexual thoughts. Turns out that rewarding sexual thoughts, with a dopamine high, is a highly efficient motivational reward that results in babies being made, that coupled with endogenous opioids. We get those same rewards from PMO because the brain has difficulty distinguishing porn from the real deal. Sure, we know they are not the same, but the brain can't tell them apart, and rewards porn the same as it does actual sex, and better even, than actual sex.

    Dr. Hilton also discusses DeltaFosB. That is the little mother fucker brain molecule that won't allow us to forget. Short version: Once you get a high, you will never forget how you can get a high, meaning you will ALWAYS know where you can go back to get the high again. Not damning to addicts, but a real motherfucker when quitting.

    ERROR #3 – “The brain effects of today’s porn are no different than static porn of the past”

    Exactly right. The widespread use of High Speed Internet Porn beginning about 15 years ago made porn addiction possible and prevalent. He says:

    Today’s porn consumer can also maintain or heighten sexual arousal by clicking to a novel scene, new video or fresh genre. Novel sexual visuals trigger greater arousal, faster ejaculation, and more semen and erection activity than familiar material.

    Thus today’s digital porn, with its limitless novelty, potent delivery (hi-def video or virtual), and the ease with which the consumer can escalate to more extreme material, appears to constitute a “supranormal stimulus.” This phrase, coined by Nobel laureate Nikolaas Tinbergen, refers to an exaggerated imitation of a stimulus that a species has evolved to pursue due to its evolutionary salience, but which can evoke more of a neurochemical response (dopamine) than the stimulus it imitates.

    He is saying porn is more efficient at generating a dopamine high than actual sex. Problematic, but true.

    Take time to understand the problem, and the problem will shrink from a huge, seemingly impossible problem, to a small problem involving a self conditioned response to preexisting triggers in the brain. This is the truth.

    Much love.

    George "W." Bush

    That's a joke by the way. I am not George Bush. Day 15. Hard Mode.

    Anyone else in this forum wants to post here, you are invited.
     
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