PMO to save marriage?

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by ItsPossible, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. ItsPossible

    ItsPossible Active Member

    A little backstory, I have been married 9 years, 2 small children, and she is my 5th sexual partner in my life. Our sex life has taken a steep decline after the kids, and it is now about once a quarter. I have pmo for 20+ years and rebooting for 2 years.

    I noticed that since I started the reboot journey, my drive for actual sex has risen, not only with my wife but another woman. I have not stepped outside of my marriage, but my drive/want has increased two-fold since I have drastically reduced the amount of pmo in my life. I feel like in the past, whenever I have the desire for another woman, I would just go find a porn girl that looked familiar, then pmo and it be done. Was pmo helping me in staying loyal to my wife? I have heard of married couples going the open relationship or even becoming swingers to fulfill these sexual desires, but I am not sure she will be down with that. I feel uncomfortable even to bring this up.

    Recently, at a party, I socially connected with another married woman, and I felt like I was dating again talking to her. This feeling of excitement I’ve missed when talking to other woman was energizing! I left the party feeling that I had a crush on her, and wish we could meet up and chat again. I know that cannot happen, and it’s all fantasy at this point. The old me would have pmo, and I would have moved on and removed those feelings. But now, I can’t stop thinking about that night, I even went to her facebook page and thought about messaging her. What is up with me? I am happy with my wife, and the family we created, but this urge to see other woman is strong. Maybe its just normal connection with another female, because I don't have other female friends in my life? I have never crossed the line though the years of marriage.

    I understand the consequences of cheating, and what it does to people. I clearly don’t want any of that.

    What am I supposed to do? Just suppress these feelings? Go pmo to "get it out" of my system? Do other guys feel this way? I am open to all comments and replies. Thanks for reading.
     
  2. doneatlast

    doneatlast Active Member

    Hmmm. A healthy sexuality is with your wife. If eating candy bars means you eat fewer hamburgers, should you eat more candy bars...? I don't know. Good habits support other good habits. Looking at women that aren't your wife and masturbating to them online doesn't really seem like a healthy solution. Are you sure there is nothing you can do to avoid an affair besides porn? And, how can you be sure that the urge to have an affair isn't just a result of the porn addiction and seeking for sexual novelty? Continuing in porn likely would only decrease your sex drive towards your wife and increase it towards other people, even if it isn't readily apparent under the sedation that is porn.
     
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  3. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    I've never been married or even been in a relationship longer than 6 months so I may not be the best person to ask, but you did ask me about my experience with escorts, so I can comment on that.

    What I would say is that perhaps watching P for years created a fantasy for me, one that I was seeing other "guys" (really, actors) living for years and I wanted to be able to do the same i.e. just walk into a room with a gorgeous woman and f*** her. I think though that abstaining from P might make that fantasy disappear somewhat (i.e. if you aren't constantly seeing it you won't always be wanting it, and will probably be happy with what you have). I also grew up with a mistaken belief that you need to have sex with a certain number of women before settling down, that all men need to "get it out of their system". Well, my experience with escorts completely demolished that idea, as there was 1 escort who I like more than others, she was my type looks wise, was great in bed and was a really nice person to chat to. The only reason I went to others was when she wasn't around (she was only available about 1/3 of the time).
    So, I think in a way many men just want the freedom to f*** whoever they like, but when it comes down to it, if they're happy with their sex life at home, why would they really need anything else?

    Btw, I don't think you should "suppress" these feelings, but I don't think you should act upon them either. Other guys do feel this way btw. Nearly every guy I know thinks about cheating, but probably only a fraction do.

    What's sex like with your wife btw? Not just frequency but do you feel satisfied after?
     
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  4. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    I think that's a key question.
     
  5. FritzBrause

    FritzBrause “You dogs, do you want to live for ever?”

    Can you talk to your wife about it? I don't know how involved she is in your porn withdrawal and how she might react to such things.
    But it's certainly better than cheating on her.
     
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  6. spoofy

    spoofy Active Member

    Ya I've been there dude, what you are feeling is healthy, getting washed by sweet Oxytocin & bit seratonin.
    Basically after you date a woman for a while your body drops the oxytocin reaction with her, to push you to go out and seek other women.

    Unfortunately that's not how society works.

    You can : (1) try to miserably suppress it (2) PMO (3) see prostitutes (4) cheat on her.

    #4 will almost always lead you to eventually lose your family and large amount of income.
    #3 has less chances but quite hard to pull off as most men are dumbasses.
    #2 will cause all side effects of PMO.
    #1 will cause you overall lower life quality & performance

    The choice is yours, what's more important your dick or your family.

    Wrong, human males are not naturally built for long term monogamy.
     
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  7. FritzBrause

    FritzBrause “You dogs, do you want to live for ever?”

    That may or may not be true, but natural and beneficial are not the same thing. I don't see you eating raw meat either.
    If human nature is impossible for us to direct into more beneficial ways, what's the point of this forum then?
    The one thing that made humans capable of surviving in so many different circumstances is their adaptivity.
     
  8. ItsPossible

    ItsPossible Active Member

    I really appreciate the replies, and it helps me gather my thoughts to hear different views like this. This feeling is a constant battle, along with my pmo. It’s feels like a double edge sword.

    @doneatlast said:
    And, how can you be sure that the urge to have an affair isn't just a result of the porn addiction and seeking for sexual novelty?

    · I don’t know, that’s kind of why I’m reaching out to the forum. I do think it’s a little bit of both, especially in my adult life, since I have missed opportunities for a sexual relationship with girls due to it being easier to pmo instead. I guess now; I have this feeling of wanting to make up for lost times.

    @gavney said:
    What's sex like with your wife btw? Not just frequency but do you feel satisfied after?

    · It’s basic sex, with me doing most of the “exciting” stuff. She isn’t very explorative, if that makes sense. I am satisfied, but I find myself thinking of other girls. I think we have come to a very complacency part in our lives where we are stuck on the routine of raising children. We make it a point to go on dates, but that spark of love/lust feeling is weak.

    @gavney, Do you feel like you got it out of your system?

    @FritzBrause

    Can you talk to your wife about it? I don't know how involved she is in your porn withdrawal and how she might react to such things.
    But it's certainly better than cheating on her.


    · I am honestly scared to bring it up, but this is still a possibility. I came out to her about my pmo issue 2 years ago, and she was very receptive, but that interest on keeping tabs on me dwindled, and she hasn’t asked me how I’ve been doing in a long time. You are absolutely right, I don’t want to cheat on her behind her back like that, and of course, I have kiddoes lives to be concerned with. Her eyes do perk up time to time when I get a text from one of her friends, so I feel like she might be concerned about me leaving her. During her younger days, she would have sex with other men while in a relationship, so idk if that experience that she had is playing on my psyche. I know today, she would never do that just because I am a great catch, and she often brags about me to her friends.

    @spoofy

    Thanks for the outline, and the science behind whats happening with my brain. I tend to agree that males are not naturally built for long-term monogamy, but how do we evolve to make it so. I believe the concept is for raising children, so fathers are “kind of forced” to be around. I am already doing (1), which is making me down and lack enjoyment in our relationship. (2) – catch 22, since I am trying to quit PMO. (3) The thought of this does excite me, but I worry too much about catching a STD. (4) This also excites me, but I can’t bare with her finding out, and hurting her like that. The responsible adult tells me that my family is more important than my dick, but the feelings are eating inside me. I know in reality, it's probably do more harm than good.

    This is great you guys, talking it out like this puts things into perspective and helps me think more.
     
  9. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    It’s basic sex, with me doing most of the “exciting” stuff. She isn’t very explorative, if that makes sense. I am satisfied, but I find myself thinking of other girls. I think we have come to a very complacency part in our lives where we are stuck on the routine of raising children. We make it a point to go on dates, but that spark of love/lust feeling is weak.

    Maybe you need more of a life outside family? Do you get excited about your career or hobbies? Perhaps you're looking for someone new to fill a void? I mean sex is really a small part of life, esp the older you get. If you're bored with life though it can be something you pursue in the hopes that it will make you happy.

    I spoke of my experience with escorts and I've had a few ONSs and dated a couple of girls. But I'm single now and quite happy at the moment. But I do want a girlfriend. Do my past experiences make me happier now? No, not at all, they're just memories.

    A close friend of mine (34 year old) has probably had more casual sex than anyone I know. He probably had over 100 ONS in his 20s, had maybe 10 relationships of a few months (he's currently in one since recently). And guess what? He seems generally miserable. Recently he texted me out of the blue to tell me how depressed he is. So, he's had all this sexual novelty, fallen in love several times and yet he always seems unhappy.
    Of course maybe there's another anecdotal example of a guy who has had the same experiences but is extremely happy. But I just use it as an example that fulfilling those desires isn't going to make you happy, at least not on its own.
     
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  10. Outsider.

    Outsider. Turning Simple Disciplines Into Massive Success

    I'm myself too much tempted to bang, for example, a beautiful girl who works out with me (she works in the same company than me). Cute. Beautiful Round Ass. Funny girl. We have a lot of fun, and we even talk about sexual stuff together.... Tough mate, tough to resist. I do know I mustn't, but easier said than done. I do understand your situation I live the same thing. As our shelter is no longer PMO, brains still strive for novelty, even if it's nowadays a real and physical body one. But one thing is sure: never think that PMO can ever be a "solution". Never ever my friend. Everything but no PMO. It has enough messed us up in the past. No place for that s#*# anymore in our lives.
    Invest in yourself, take care of you,exercise and read everyday. Learn and/or discover new things when you're all alone at home. Time is our most precious asset. Let's use it instead of being scared to be alone and relapse. I first and foremost give those advices to myself, hoping we'll succeed in managing those temptations.
    Keep going on @ItsPossible
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  11. doneatlast

    doneatlast Active Member

    So much nihilism towards marriage... this is very much a product of post-modernism, and a result of the same philosophies that tell us that porn exorcises our inner demons, lest they fester and cause problems. The epic failure of marriages on a mass scale is largely a post baby-boomer era phenomenon, though I won't argue that marriage was a flawless institution prior to that.

    To the four options:

    #4, cheating: The dishonesty and selfishness involved in this seem obviously bad, but if it is less obvious, I guarantee that it will haunt you.
    #3, seeing prostitutes: "My husband was so bored in our marriage until he saw some prostitutes on the side, and now our marriage is great! He loves me more than ever, and I feel deeply loved." - Said no wife ever.
    #2, use more porn: Lots of people pushing this idea, I had one pop up on my Apple news feed just yesterday. The existence of the nofap movement should be good antithetical proof, and as time goes on, I am sure more data will collect.
    #1, try to "miserably suppress it"... instead, how about "joyfully renew our wedding vows?" To say that we will miserably suppress it is to say that our primary mental function is raw biological needs, that we are like a golden retriever humping the leg of the mailman. In many cases these days, this is a self fulfilling prophecy. Porn addiction shrinks our pre-frontal cortex and slowly destroys our executive functioning abilities. To say that we are not evolved for long term monogamy is to think that we are nothing more than our genitals, and just barely enough grey matter to give us erections.

    The bottom line is what I feel like I say in every post: Porn Lies. Porn has told us that when we feel urges we have to get it "out of our system" and that ejaculation is the only way. We lose the belief that we can ever regain control, and relapses happen that way. Ironically, many single guys say to themselves "it would be so much easier to quit porn if I had a wife" thinking it is a sex paradise. That is a lie. Also a lie is that they need escorts or something else. Many have tried it on these boards, I am yet to read a single success story. It is a mix of the need for escalation with the salivating response to Pavlov's bell.

    Hang in there. If being a good, happy husband is what you want, you'll get there. If the overly simplistic view of "what guys want" was true, then guys sitting at home masturbating all day would be the most blissed out people on the planet. We're built for more than that.
     
  12. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I've not only had those feelings, but acted on them. I cheated on my wife twice. Before that I had online affairs, emotional ones that opened the flood gates to me pursuing it with a woman who was not my wife. Both times the sex was NOT what I thought it would be. In fact, I couldn't cum with the women and eventually just went flaccid. They were emotionally traumatized, thinking they weren't sexy, and I was fucking gutted. Not only had I not been able to copulate, but I had now cheated. The depression I fell into was not pretty.

    I've written about all of this in my journal if you feel motivated to wade through the pages.

    The short-version: My wife found out (one of the women told her), she stayed with me, we hated each other, we never had sex, I plunged into P-land like never before, I had ED with a bit of PIED, and life was fucking miserable. Self-loathing, anxiety, a sense of worthlessness, guilt laced with heapings of shame. When I wasn't beating myself up I was blaming my wife, my mom, every fucking thing in the universe. I dragged myself around. I had moments of fun, mostly when drunk, but basically I felt disconnected from life and weary. Even though I was hooked on P before the cheating, I at least had a bit of mojo, a tiny fraction of passion for a couple of things; after the affairs that all died inside. 8 years removed from the affairs and two years removed from PMO I am just finally now feeling life within me.

    You've received some good advice on this thread, but I couldn't disagree with Spoofy more. Sorry, bud, but you are completely wrong in your assessment of marriage, temptation, etc. What @doneatlast wrote above is awesome and true! P addicts, sex addicts, are emotionally underdeveloped men. Through our reboots we begin to fulfill ourselves as self-actualized individuals. Our journey is to love ourselves, not to boink some woman, who if she is cheating with a married man, is in all likely hood a narcissistic bitch, just the kind that would relish in destroying your family and bringing you down. Be fierce, take cold showers, do the little jobs around the house that have been neglected, move slowly, and realize that this is YOUR life, your journey. Following some piece of pussy is what the great Matriarch wants us to do, the spirit that lead us to P in the first place.

    Btw, my marriage has miraculously turned around. We now have weekly sessions and my pecker works great. I will always carry some guilt over what I've done, but I'm learning to love myself and thereby able to love those close to me.

    PS: Do NOT tell your wife about wanting to fuck another woman. These things we keep to ourselves; it would only diminish her and make her feel unloved. Our issues surrounding the addiction should not become the burden of our spouse. We have to do the heavy lifting in our lives (take responsibility), not them!

    Peace, bro'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  13. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Spot on! I think what's insidious about the "Porn Lie" is that it's never explicitly said. It's implicit in all the fantasies. While it does appeal to something inside of us, that doesn't mean acting on it would make you happy.
    I often see an evolutionary argument around this. I studied Evolution in college for 2 years and it's such a complete misunderstanding of it. Evolution isn't interested in our happiness. If happiness were directly correlated with fulfilling evolutionary potential then if you went to a sperm bank every day to spread your seed, you would be the happiest man on the planet!!
    As to the "monogamy just isn't natural" thinking, imagine this scenario - what if you lived in a small town with a population of 50 people 100 years ago. Say there were only 6 women of "fertile" age around and you were married to one of them.
    Could you really not be happy in that situation unless you banged the other 5? What if you weren't even attracted to them? What if you bang the other 5 - is that enough? How many is enough? Were men living in small towns 100 years ago destined to be unhappy because they weren't able to fulfill their "evolutionary potential"??

    Or put more simply - does Charlie Sheen seem like a happy man!!?
     
  14. spoofy

    spoofy Active Member

    Checkmate, you have good life experience to come to these conclusions.
    You also nailed it on #3, esp as this is a indirect way your wife will find out.

    I know how hard it is considering we only live once, and can't stop thinking of these things we might be missing.

    The secret to happiness, nobody is really happy.
    Get it out of your systems, pursuing a state of happiness is a falacy perpetuated by the entertainment industry.
    Therefore it's pointless to use that as an argument.

    I'm confused, you didn't cum nor stayed hard, and you're surprised it wasn't enjoyable? o_O

    I feel for you Saville, that sucks donkey balls mate :(

    @ItsPossible, as you can see just as I mentioned in #4, that is what almost always happens when a man cheats on his wife, sucks but such is life.
     
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  15. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    LOL Right? :D I couldn't even feel their skin. I was like a cadaver. I was surprised my pecker even got hard at the beginning. I did persist with both of them and was eventually able to have successful coitus. However, I had to stack up my favorite P clips in order to cum. When I was sexting with them I had pre-cum juice flowing all over the place. I was epically hard! I believed, both times, because I'm stupid, that the right woman would somehow allow me to blow my stack with no problem. Oops, it wasn't my wife's fault after all, but mine. :oops: Having an affair just means that we are not in charge of our own life. And, in my case anyway, I suspect most cases for sex addicts, we are actually just chasing down a different sort of P-clip.

    I certainly agree that P addicts are not happy. Now that I am PMO-free I have experienced quite a lot of happiness. I work at being happy by recognizing many false states of mind. And, I'm not really concerned about everybody. Happiness, I've found, is a by-product of what we do, just as misery is. You are right that life, at its heart, is a struggle. But, so is working out, so is getting an education, etc. The struggle makes us stronger, right? Chasing a skirt, or just PMO'ing all the time, is an attempt to circumvent the struggle and go straight to the happy place, which as we all know (all to well) is actually hell.

    Thanks, man. But, it's all turned out great. I mean that, I'm not being pollyanna-ish. Yup, my life caved in, but I found this place and YBR. I bang the wife once-a-week and have found my passions renewed for many things. I still look at certain women and think "yum!," which as many have said is totally natural. However, I'm in a place now where I recognize that women controlled much of my life. Anyway, I've gone on enough and it's all in my journal if anyone wants to read more.

    I'm almost 60 now and though I trashed a lot of my past, the past, as I've said before, can go fuck itself.
     
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  16. Fry2

    Fry2 Well-Known Member

    In my case the longer I stay away from porn the less I feel the need for other women and the more I enjoy the marriage with my wife. I also find her more attractive. In addition to that sex becomes less important when I'm clean and the overwhelming feeling that I MUST have sex or else I'll die or my life sucks is mostly gone.

    So there is another option not mentioned above:
    (5) wait it out, meditate, exercise, enjoy your life, improve yourself and your marriage, rewire with your wife, and be grateful for what you've got.
     

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