PIED update during reboot

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Bilbo Swaggins, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    I understand your frustration as your are apparently doing everything right without yielding the full reward. In my mind, it makes the flawless abstinence for more than a year even more impressive. Talk about perserverance. The peace of mind mind will come, once you will have recovered. As unpleasant as it feels, your emotions simply tell you that you haven't reached your target yet, ostensibly. I am not trying to relativize your anguish, far from it, but from an outside view, being content with where you are now in terms of recovery, would even be worse, wouldn't it?

    You can still work on coming to terms with how things are, if you feel like you tried "everything" and if no further improvements are in sight. Perhaps, this could be the right thing to do at some point, but only you will know and until then keep the flame of hopefulness lit. And even in a scenario, where you do not even see the tiniest bit of improvement anymore, you still have ED meds in your back pocket which worked for you. I know, it's not something that excites anyone, yet would it give you the opportunity to have a fulfilling sex life, pragmatically speaking.

    If it helps, recovery and progress in life often happen spirally and not in a linear way. Hick-ups don't bring you back to square one and halts may not be permanent.
  2. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Thanks a lot for this, Pete. Feels good to read these words. I often tell myself some of the things you mentioned, but to hear them from someone else is comforting. Thanks for helping me putting things in perspective, dear friend. As usual, you brought some very good points.
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  3. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Hey, bro'. I read a good deal of journal and you articulate your feelings well. Congratulations on staying clean for so long - a huge accomplishment! Congrats also on staying away from booze and cigs. You have tenacity and grit inside you, as is evidenced by the heavy lifting you've done. Oh, and you've also recorded an album! Wow! Just one of these accomplishments would be great, but in one year you've laid down four "big deals." I am massively impressed, man.

    Here's a couple of thought I had while reading your journal. Firstly, you live with a person who is depressed. She sounds like a willing partner, but depressed people withhold a certain energy from any relationship. Further, they take our energy, because we are intuitively aware that they have a need. As a sensitive person you are tuned into this need big time and consequently it drains you of your own resources. You speak of your own low-level depression, which is a common condition on these pages. In effect, you and your gf are on a negative feedback loop. A massage therapist ignited something within you that your gf couldn't...this should tell you something.

    Secondly, I read that your gf cheated on you. This had to have had a massive effect on your psyche. Why do you think you didn't just kick her to the curb? As a cheater myself I wondered why my wife stayed with me after finding out I was bonking someone else. In my case my wife is a narcissist, so she just went into denial mode, but made me pay for it in a myriad of ways. I finally turned the tide of our relationship when I ditched P and asserted myself as the dominant one in the relationship. Have you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy?" You say you prefer being passive during sex (a bj rather than PIV), but have you considered this is conditioning from your formative years? I know that for myself I was brought up to please the matriarch, the feminine spirit, which meant that I must disavow, at least in part, my natural masculinity.

    Thirdly, you could look into your gut health. I found out this year, at the age of 62, just how screwed up my intestinal track really was. I've given up sugar, gluten, corn and a number of other things, and am definitely feeling more positive about my life. At your age I already had a family and so was plugged into raising kids and working. Family life obfuscated just how tired I was becoming, how defeated, and powered down. By the time my kids left for college I was just a shell of a man. At 32 years of age you have the chance to really blow things up for yourself in a positive way. There is nothing more subversive than claiming our own right to be here.

    I think you're an amazing young man!
  4. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    Really appreciate your honesty. I hope you can find that peace you're looking for! All the best
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  5. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Hey Saville,

    Thanks a lot for your sincerity. And thanks for the kind words, and the compliment regarding my writing. As you probably noticed, I’m not a native English speaker, and even though I can read and write pretty easily in English, sometimes I’m a little embarrassed about the lack of finesse in my writing. Yeah, I wish I could communicate a little more naturally on the forum. But hey, coming here is actually a very good practice for me, so it’s all good.

    Good stuff, man, thanks for sharing that. I’m definitely gonna think about the things you wrote, some points you brought really make sense.

    I don’t believe it’s normal that I prefer being passive during sex. It’s obviously conditioning, as you said. It’s not exactly a fetish, but it’s similar: you’re turned on by a few specific things, you adopt a certain attitude during sex... Yeah, porn probably caused that in me. I hope this will lessen with time, just like fetishes stop being attractive for other guys as they reboot.

    Funnily, all my first sexual experiences were blowjobs. That was before I even knew I had PIED... From age 16 to 18, a few girls gave me blowjobs, but I never had PIV sex with these girls. I don’t know why it happened that way, as I said it wasn’t because of PIED. It’s just a coincidence, I guess, I met girls (and paid a few escorts too) who liked giving head, and my libido was probably already fucked by my porn use, so I didn’t even think about making love to these girls. So maybe these first experiences left a trace on me, some kind of conditioning, I don’t know...

    As for my girlfriend’s unfaithfulness... One thing is clear, it can’t happen again. But as I said, I cheated on her too. I didn’t sleep with another woman, but I kissed one, and more than once. So it’s not like I was the only victim, here. If I hadn’t cheated on her, I don’t think I could have accepted that she had an affair. Also, she has expressed regret in a way that sounds very sincere to me. So, I’ve decided to accept it, just like she accepted my unfaithfulness as well. In a way, it’s good that we both had an affair at the same time, that made it easier for each of us to forgive the other one. I like to think that we have both learned our lesson.

    But as you said, it really fucked up with my psyche... The treason is rough to accept. But the fact that she had sex with a "real man" is the hardest part for me, as ridiculous as it sounds. If I didn’t have ED, I would have forgotten about it much quicker. But to imagine her in bed with a dominant and virile man, that was really hard, and it still is. I read some of their conversations (big mistake), it’s still haunting me, even 18 months later. Guys, if your girlfriend cheats on you, don’t ask questions, don’t seek information... The less you know, the better it is.

    Thanks again, Saville. I’ll definitely think about my health and my diet. It hasn’t been a preoccupation for me so far, but I’ll make some research, and try a thing or two.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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  6. Shady

    Shady Well-Known Member

    @Bilbo Swaggins wow. I know how you feel. This is a rough ride.
    But consider this, you're not alone.
    Bilbo Swaggins likes this.
  7. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Hard mode, day 7

    The only thing worth mentioning is that I met a physiotherapist who specializes in perineal and pelvic rehabilitation for men. It’s not that I thought I had serious pelvic issues, it’s just that I want to explore other avenues. But it’s true that I’ve had minor annoying symptoms for many years: very frequent urination, and some pain and discomfort after having an orgasm, that can last for hours. I was a chronic edger, so it’s not unlikely that I may have messed up with my pelvic health.

    Turns out I may have some issues down there. It’s still too early to tell, because I’ve only had one appointment. But the physiotherapist found 2-3 symptoms that are not normal, which may reveal some issue. He made me lie down on my belly and then made me stretch my lower back (just like when you do a Cobra pose). That caused some pain in a specific spot in my back, which is supposedly not normal.

    Anyway, he gave me two exercises to do this week, and I’ve got another appointment with him next week. Ideally, I would stay active sexually to see if these exercises have an impact on my erections. I’ve explained to him that I was rebooting, and specifically doing hard mode at the moment, so he suggested that I try masturbating for a few minutes everyday and try to see if I notice a difference. That doesn’t sound like a problem to me, because it will just be mechanical, with no fantasy involved, so I’ll do it. But to be honest, I don’t think it will be easy to do: it’s been more than a year since I masturbated, I’m pretty sure I won’t be able to get an erection just by touch. No big deal, I’ll still give it a try.

    That’s about it. This is very promising, but I have to admit I didn’t feel so good after meeting the physiotherapist. He was very respectful, but he involuntarily made me feel like a freak when I said I couldn’t get a erection while standing up, or other similar things. Actually, I tried masturbating in front of him, because he wanted to see how quickly I lose my erection when stimulation stops. Of course, I couldn’t even get slightly erected in these conditions. Anyway, sorry for the graphic details... As I said, I’m glad to explore this avenue, but at the same time it’s pretty hard to have a professional examining and questioning you like that. And, while I’m enthusiastic about the fact I may have found another cause for my ED, a part of me also feels that it’s like adding a new layer to an already complicated problem. But it’s cool. I’ll keep you guys updated.
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  8. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    I know all about those symptoms. Getting rid of this stuff is hard.
    I personally would prescribe reverse kegels, deep abdominal breathing as much as possible, and piriformis and glute stretches (they look kinda the same but are different).

    Think about what causes the issue: tight pelvic musculature. You noted edging, an activity in which most people will kegel much of the time because it feels good and to keep erection. So it's like if all someone does is bench press every day without doing rows (the opposite movement), to balance. Same with chronically subconsciously holding your stomach tight, light breathing into chest instead of deeply, and just being chronically in fight or flight mode. Think what animals do when they are scared or stressed, they hold their tail between their legs. We do the same, it's just we don't have a tail, but we are constantly holding a low-level kegel when stressed (same thing, flexing the pelvic muscles).
    So we have to balance that out with reverse kegels, and try as much as possible to break the constant pelvic flexing cycle, with breathing and remembering to stop flexing (which you probably don't notice you are doing).

    If that doesn't work (which I think it will in your case if you stick at it), internal trigger point therapy will fix it quick, but the problem is it's an art and it isn't normally one's favourite pass-time, and it won't fix it forever without fixing the underlying issues, which IMO are psychological.

    Another thing I find, is one is much more likely to hold a kegel when one's erections are subpar, that's what I do. But when your erections are good you're more likely to actually hold a reverse kegel, which makes them even harder and stay longer....So, this problem may get better with time and better hardons.

    One might try taking Quercetin, which has I believe quite a few studies behind it for this issue and anecdotally I believe many have been helped by it over at the CPPS forum.
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  9. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Great post, as usual. Really crazy stuff. It’s amazing how we can develop deeply rooted problems. It’s like we have to re-learn how to live. Breathing, relaxing your pelvic muscles, having a good posture, doing stretches... Thanks for sharing that.
  10. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Hard mode, day 16

    I had a second appointment with my physiotherapist, and something unexpected came up. It turns out I have weak pelvic muscles. I know it’s not what you would expect about a guy who has edged to porn for 15 years, but my physiotherapist did a thorough examination and he’s sure about it (he introduced a finger into my anus and made me do contractions).

    At first, I was surprised when he told me I had weak pelvic muscles. Ever since I joined this forum, I assumed I had a tight pelvic floor. But now, many things are starting to make sense for me. Also, it’s true that even as a teenager, I always made sure I relaxed my pelvic floor when I masturbated. I didn’t know about the pelvic floor, of course, it’s just that it felt better that way, and that’s how I did it all my life.

    Here are some symptoms I’ve always had (I won’t mention them all, because some of them happen when you have a tight pelvic floor as well):

    - urine leakage after urination (not a lot, just a few drops, but it’s chronic)
    - some pain and discomfort in the pelvic floor after sex or masturbation
    - dribbling ejaculation

    Now, about the last point… I never brought up the subject, because it’s kinda weird, and I always assumed it was just another symptom of ED. But now I realize that I was probably wrong. I’ll create another thread for this specific question, just to make sure I’m not wrong, but I’m starting to believe that most guys with ED probably don’t have dribbling ejaculations. Even after a 90-minute edging session, sperm would never come out of my penis in blasts, it would always just kind of leak out. My girlfriend told me she had never seen a man ejaculate this way. There can be other causes for that, but most likely it indicates a weak pelvic floor.

    I’m enthusiastic about this. I’m trying to stay cool and to not have unrealistic expectations about physiotherapy, but I’m feeling some hope and excitement about it. Weak pelvic floor can cause ED, or contribute to ED. It’s about time I got checked by a professional! I’ve got daily exercises to do (every two hours), we’ll see how it goes.

    That’s about it. Other than that, I’ve been sleeping very well lately. I’m also having night erections and morning wood pretty often these days. I guess I could say I’m feeling good, and it wouldn’t be a lie or an exaggeration. I’m very grateful to have the opportunity to improve my sexual health, and I hope that things will continue to improve for me.
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  11. TrueDat

    TrueDat Active Member

    This could be a blessing in disguise then, I mean in a way good that you know the issue and if you do the exercises things might improve.
    Smart that you took the time to investigate every potential factor, I think every long rebooter should.
    Bilbo Swaggins likes this.
  12. BoughtWithBlood

    BoughtWithBlood Well-Known Member

    So good to read this man. Happy for you! Keep the hope alive and the good work up :)
    Bilbo Swaggins likes this.
  13. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Hard mode, day 28

    Funny week. Did some Kegels for a few days as recommended by my physiotherapist. Then I started feeling some discomfort in my genital area, so I stopped Kegels and requested another appointment. In the meantime, I read a book about CPPS (chronic pelvic pain syndrome) and started believing I had that. I have many symptoms associated with CPPS: urinary urgency and frequency, dribbling ejaculation, ED, etc.

    Then I measured the amount of urine I produce in a day. I did it for 3 days, and the results were 3.1 liters, 3.6 liters and 3.3 liters (the average person pisses between 1.3 and 2 liters). So I started being certain I had pelvic issues. I went to my appointment with my physio Friday night, talked to him about all this and said I wanted him to examine me again. He didn’t mind, so he went inside me once again with his finger and looked for trigger points, tension, sensitive areas, etc. He found nothing. Trigger points, he said, are knots, little bumps that you easily feel. I don’t have any. As for tension, he will easily feel it if he presses the tissues and there’s resistance. I had almost no tension. And during the ten minutes he was in there, moving and pressing in all directions, it didn’t hurt even once. Of course, I didn’t enjoy having a finger in there, but it didn’t hurt.

    My physiotherapist said he understood why I thought I might have CPPS, but he said that it would be best to leave this hypothesis aside. Chances are very weak that I have it, according to him. But he said that it could make sense that it was too early to do some Kegels and that I might have some minor tensions in my pelvic floor that we should fix first. As a side note, I told him that I edged to porn for almost 20 years, a few times a week, for 60 to 90 minutes each time. He said, yes, this could cause tension in the pelvic floor, but it didn’t happen with me. And finally, he said that pissing a lot like I do isn’t necessarily something to worry about. My family doctor said the same thing a few days ago, since my blood tests do not reveal any deficiencies, and because pissing isn’t painful for me.

    So after believing for a few days that I had CPPS, I let go of that idea. I also realized that the pain I felt earlier this week when I was doing Kegels might actually have been blue balls (it’s been 28 days since I O’ed, and I have blue balls at the moment). That’s it for CPPS, I don’t think I have to explore this avenue anymore.

    Other than that, on Friday I woke up in the middle of the night, and I think I was on the verge of having a wet dream. But awaking interrupted it and left me in a state of arousal that took a while before to fade away, and I had an erection that wouldn’t go down. Images of the dream I was having before to wake up (a porn dream) would pop into my head and make my arousal go up. I felt just like in Super Mario when you catch a star: unlimited strength lol… Eventually I fell back asleep, but the day after I was still feeling like that, easily aroused. Things got a bit out of control with my girlfriend, we started making out and I didn’t have enough will to stop. I said fuck it, let’s have some fun. Fortunately, I kept my dick in my pants, but there was some intense kissing, touching, and I did her a few things. So yeah, I kinda broke my streak, but I still plan on continuing hard mode for 3 months.

    Today I’m pretty much back to my usual self, but I’m still happy about what happened. It felt like I went out of flatline for a few hours, and it hadn’t really happened ever since I started rebooting.

    In two days, I’m meeting with an anti-aging doctor, who will check my hormones. I don’t really have expectations, but who knows. The plan is to rule out other possible causes, and to keep rebooting. I can’t really complain, things could be worse. The weather is starting to be very nice, it brings some good vibes. And my sleep is still relatively good, which is a huge relief. Not even a year ago, I sometimes used sleeping pills ten days in a row… Anyway, just trying to stay away from despair as much as possible, and even though I’m not out of the woods yet, I’m definitely doing better and better as time goes by.
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  14. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    Hi Bilbo, there was a time a while ago where i thought i had cpps as well. Kegels made my ed worse, and stretching although made my erections better if i got one, but it gave me dripping weak ejaculation as yoy described, without masturbation, but i notice in my wet dreams that I did not have pelvic contractions during ejaculation, since i stopped, it's back to normal.

    It's interesting that you mention you were out of flatilne for few hours then back again to it, this happens often to me if i go hard mode, also during that time my ed disappears... It's an obvious sign my ed isn't pelvic floor related. I think this would apply to you as well. So don't waste your money on these doctors,most of them are fraud and don't have good intentions regarding making you heal.
  15. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    These short random out of flatline moments don't make me feel hopeful, all flatilnes aren't like this and makes my thoughts go into something else i hate to mention it's name... But no options for us but to keep pushing and hope for the best...
  16. Urine volume depends solely on your body fluid equilibrium and your renal function. If your renal function is fine, which probably is the case for you, then water leaving your body (urine, sweat, breath) would equal to the amount of water you drink (mind coffees, beer, food as well). Pelvic floor dysfunction doesn't interfere with urine volume. But it could interfere with the way you pee eg. If you have a tight pelvic floor or prostate hyperplasia then you could possibly urinate in drops and not in stream. Bilbo I really really think your case is classic PIED, and hard mode should benefit you greatly. And this night wood is a great sign!!! Something in your mind clicked on!!! I am sure you are about to see more such changes during the next two months.

    Keep us posted
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  17. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Thanks a lot, friend. I appreciate your encouraging words and the medical perspective you bring. The way you describe it, it really makes sense.
  18. Mudshovel

    Mudshovel Active Member

    What? Where?
  19. Bilbo Swaggins

    Bilbo Swaggins Well-Known Member

    Hard mode, day 38

    No signs of libido this week.

    I’ve met with an anti-aging doctor a few days ago. She gave me a lab request for a blood test, it seems pretty complete, unlike the usual requests from my family doctor and urologist. I’ll meet her again in one month, when she gets the results.

    Interestingly, she could access my medical files. She had a look at my latest blood tests (May 2020), and she immediately said that my testosterone (19 nmol/L) was low for a guy my age (I’m 33). Without any hesitation, she said that we would optimize that. I was surprised, because 19 nmol/L doesn’t sound that low. I’ve had my hormones checked 4-5 times in the last decade, and my testosterone was always between 17 and 19 nmol/L, while my bioavailable testosterone is usually around 8 nmol/L. All this to say it’s almost certain that she will prescribe me testosterone next month. Of course, she’ll analyze other things, like my levels of estrogen, but she was clear: my testosterone is low, and I’ll get a prescription next month.

    I don’t know if it will have any impact on my libido, but I’m willing to give it a try. I know Gary Wilson said that TRT wasn’t effective for guys with PIED, but I’ve also found two stories on Reboot Nation of guys who healed their ED with it :



    Those stories are pretty spectacular. As I said, I don’t know what to expect from the treatment, but I’m willing to give it a try.

    Other than that, not much to say. I’m already on day 38, and the deal is to do three months of hard mode. Only 52 days left, I really don’t know if things can change during that short period of time. As the months go by, your perception of time changes, that’s certain. When I started rebooting, 3 months sounded so long! But now, 3 months isn’t a big deal anymore, it’s actually a very, very small amount of time. Somehow it’s good, because it forces me to think long-term and to realize that it takes time to get what you want. But you have to keep believing and hoping, and it can be challenging at times. Yeah, gotta keep your head up. Hope and optimism are probably important factors in this process, so we gotta stay away from despair as much as possible while we’re rebooting.
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  20. You should check other things as well, like estrogen, prolactin, thyroid hormones and vitamin D. Well, those guys you mentioned ( I remember andyjee, I used to follow him back then while he was struggling, then I left and now that I came back I stumbled upon his success story) had much lower T levels than yours. Edit: andyjee mentioned that he had a varicocele since puberty, which proceeded to testicular cancer. He isn't really straightforward and clear about it, but people with testicular cancer have surgery to remove the cancerous testicle and they remain with the other one. Thus, he has a very serious reason to be hypogonadic. His case is very special and he was the perfect candidate for TRT, and if you have had testicular cancer it is pretty obvious why you can have low T and low T symptoms, I wonder why he and his doctors didn't sort it out sooner.

    Interestingly, we seem to have similar T levels. I managed to get cured (or at least much much improved) in 2017,18 while being at 500ish testosterone. Our levels are not low. Not high either. But our nuts are definitely working. My guess is now that you applied some healthy changes in your life (reduced alcohol, smoking), if you start working out, lifting some weight bring your body fat down to 15%, improve your diet, you can get to 600+. And these levels definitely don't explain ED and low libido.

    Moreover, TRT has its problems. If not applied correctly it can cause infertility, nut shrinking and many other problems (high blood pressure, high hematocrit, liver,kidney damage etc).

    Finally, what is the doctor's exact specialty? We have such anti aging clinics here in my country as well, and they are very eager to prescribe T to everything that moves.

    Don't know man. I would be really cautious. Trt is not like Viagra (ok, took the pill, if it works great, if not not a big problem). It can really mess up a lot of things. I think that I would try raising my T in a more natural way first, and then take a second,third and fourth opinion by EXPERTS in hormones (which means you might have to search in other cities to find those), then proceed to TRT.

    (I strongly suggest that you search the posts of a guy whose nickname is Bounce. He hasn't posted since 2015, but I found out about his posts recently and I was shocked how much his story looked alike with mine.)
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
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