Overactive PC Muscles. Fixing pelvic floor imbalance.

Discussion in 'Erectile Dysfunction / Delayed Ejaculation' started by BilboBagins, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Geezer

    Geezer New Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    In my experience, too, tensing was a way to cum faster, but the most intense orgasms were achieved with relaxation.

    There is a lot of controversy (at least on the internet) about which is best for ED - regular Kegels or reverse. From what I've gleaned, it may be that regular Kegels done with a relax of 5 seconds between is the "right" way to do them for ED. The flagship paper on pelvic floor exercises improving ED was done in 2004, but I don't see that the paper described the exercises in full detail. The paper claims that overall 76% of men showed improvement with 40% regaining full function. Here's the citation and abstract:
    ----------------
    BJU Int. 2005 Sep;96(4):595-7.
    Pelvic floor exercises for erectile dysfunction.
    Dorey G, Speakman MJ, Feneley RC, Swinkels A, Dunn CD.

    Source

    The Somerset Nuffield Hospital, Taunton, UK. grace.dorey@virgin.net
    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:

    To examine the role of pelvic floor exercises as a way of restoring erectile function in men with erectile dysfunction.
    PATIENTS AND METHODS:

    In all, 55 men aged > 20 years who had experienced erectile dysfunction for > or = 6 months were recruited for a randomized controlled study with a cross-over arm. The men were treated with either pelvic floor muscle exercises (taught by a physiotherapist) with biofeedback and lifestyle changes (intervention group) or they were advised on lifestyle changes only (control group). Control patients who did not respond after 3 months were treated with the intervention. All men were given home exercises for a further 3 months. Outcomes were measured using the International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), anal pressure measurements and independent (blinded) assessments.
    RESULTS:

    After 3 months, the erectile function of men in the intervention group was significantly better than in the control group (P < 0.001). Control patients who were given the intervention also significantly improved 3 months later (P < 0.001). After 6 months, blind assessment showed that 40% of men had regained normal erectile function, 35.5% improved but 24.5% failed to improve.
    CONCLUSION:

    This study suggests that pelvic floor exercises should be considered as a first-line approach for men seeking long-term resolution of their erectile dysfunction.
    ----------------
    The full paper is available here:
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2005.05690.x/pdf
     
  2. Amboy

    Amboy 24 yo gay guy trying to beat ed

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Quote from: Amboy on April 25, 2013, 05:12:35 PM
    I always used my pc muscles too ! And I do beleive that is has caused harm , used your pc muscles while wanking i think tightens on your prostate which is why you cum faster , I don't know if any of you guys experienced this but some times after orgasm I would get a pain in my prostate , plus I've noticed that my pc muscles are kinda contracted all the time , so I have started making sure my ass is always relaxed and I'm doing reverse kegals wen ever I can

    In my experience, too, tensing was a way to cum faster, but the most intense orgasms were achieved with relaxation.

    There is a lot of controversy (at least on the internet) about which is best for ED - regular Kegels or reverse. From what I've gleaned, it may be that regular Kegels done with a relax of 5 seconds between is the "right" way to do them for ED. The flagship paper on pelvic floor exercises improving ED was done in 2004, but I don't see that the paper described the exercises in full detail. The paper claims that overall 76% of men showed improvement with 40% regaining full function. Here's the citation and abstract:
    ----------------
    BJU Int. 2005 Sep;96(4):595-7.
    Pelvic floor exercises for erectile dysfunction.
    Dorey G, Speakman MJ, Feneley RC, Swinkels A, Dunn CD.

    Source

    The Somerset Nuffield Hospital, Taunton, UK. grace.dorey@virgin.net
    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:

    To examine the role of pelvic floor exercises as a way of restoring erectile function in men with erectile dysfunction.
    PATIENTS AND METHODS:

    In all, 55 men aged > 20 years who had experienced erectile dysfunction for > or = 6 months were recruited for a randomized controlled study with a cross-over arm. The men were treated with either pelvic floor muscle exercises (taught by a physiotherapist) with biofeedback and lifestyle changes (intervention group) or they were advised on lifestyle changes only (control group). Control patients who did not respond after 3 months were treated with the intervention. All men were given home exercises for a further 3 months. Outcomes were measured using the International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), anal pressure measurements and independent (blinded) assessments.
    RESULTS:

    After 3 months, the erectile function of men in the intervention group was significantly better than in the control group (P < 0.001). Control patients who were given the intervention also significantly improved 3 months later (P < 0.001). After 6 months, blind assessment showed that 40% of men had regained normal erectile function, 35.5% improved but 24.5% failed to improve.
    CONCLUSION:

    This study suggests that pelvic floor exercises should be considered as a first-line approach for men seeking long-term resolution of their erectile dysfunction.
    ----------------
    The full paper is available here:
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2005.05690.x/pdf



    This is really interesting ! Is it a urologist that checkes your pelvic muscles ? Or what kind of doctor would be best to do this ?
     
  3. alldonewiththat

    alldonewiththat New Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Since no one replied yet, I'll ask again: are reverse kegels just pushing out?
     
  4. Amboy

    Amboy 24 yo gay guy trying to beat ed

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Yes reversed kegals are pushing as if you need to pee and pushing as if you need to fart
     
  5. Geezer

    Geezer New Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    A urologist might be the first step to consult, but for treatment you'd probably end up with a physiotherapist.
     
  6. marco

    marco Guest

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    I also noticed that sometimes (when I get an erection) my PC muscles contract automatically. This is definitely a sign of overused PC muscles done by the years of kegel masturbation. I'm now making sure to always keep my muscles relaxed and to do reverse kegels so we'll see if I notice any improvement in a few weeks.
     
  7. Goodlooking

    Goodlooking Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    I'm going to do the same, ill update here when I got a raging boner next week ;)
     
  8. machok

    machok New Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Hey guys! Long time rebooter here. Wrote a success story half a year ago, but something is still not right.

    I have started doing some reverse kegels for a week now and I'm starting to see some benefits. I think my PC muscle is far too overactive, and has been since I was a little kid. I often have problem to start my urine stream, even the times i really have to go. I also clinch my PC muscle when having sex, and then I come maybe 5 seconds later without a chance of stopping it.

    Last night when I laid in bed and did some reverse kegels I got got an idea that maybe I should massage the perineum area between my ass and balls, to relieve some of the tension down there. And boy did it work, after massaging a couple of minutes It was like i turned on a hormone switch. I have been in flatline the last two weeks, but this made me come out it right away. You guys should try it, I think it's really beneficial.
     
  9. alldonewiththat

    alldonewiththat New Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    I'm going to try massaging too, with reverse kegels, and report back.

    I'll use urination as an objective test, since ED will also vary with my flatline/reboot.

    Gary, if you're reading this, have you heard much on this topic from rebooters? Specifically, whether over used PC muscles can contribute to ED.
     
  10. BilboBagins

    BilboBagins Through adversity, there is redemption

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    I was thinking about the PC-tense masturbation being a big big factor.

    Whilst rebooting I didn't masturbate for at least 60 days and my erections were great (during the night, never edged), I ruined it by getting worried about my prostate and masturbating just for release and I even did kegels. Strangely since doing kegels I have a very tight PC muscle area and so much so once it even burned (peeing) all the way from my penis to my prostate.

    I don't want to mess around with my PC muscles anymore, I have looked into reverse kegels but I sort of get the "oh god i NEVER want to flex my PC muscles" which makes me feel like I need to pee all the time (PC Muscles responsible for (in)continence).

    I think honestly, just resting (no masturbation, no edging, kegels) will restore balance to the PC muscles. The only downfall is when I'm sleeping and it's been 20+ without masturbation I'm sure I have an erection for hours in the night which leads to the feeling of a swollen prostate and need for release (I'm going to try without masturbation, but exercise).

    Absolutely! I have to push/lift (a finger) in my "taint/gouch/area between testicles and anus/" to get out the last drops or do a kegel to squirt out the rest!

    Edit: Just tried some reverse kegels, absolutely have no idea how to do them or even if I can, :(
     
  11. max2013

    max2013 Guest

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    I noticed i have to kegel at the end of urinating about 7 times to get it all out, and ive noticed other guys dont seem to have this problem. So would doing reverse kegels cure this and help with erections? Should i avoid normal kegels so theres a muscle balance? Is pushing the stream harder when urinating a safe way to work the muscles?
     
  12. BilboBagins

    BilboBagins Through adversity, there is redemption

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Found some great info!

    Read: http://www.pegym.com/forums/premature-ejaculation-forum/11529-reverse-kegels.html

    It's long, has a lot of pages, but the info is sort of scattered through out so just allow yourself the time to get through it all. (it's worth it)

    And: http://www.pegym.com/forums/premature-ejaculation-forum/15480-implications.html

    The above is on my 'to read' list, about to start now.

    Edit: Even more!

    http://www.pegym.com/forums/premature-ejaculation-forum/42035-confusion-reverse-kegels.html


    This last one could really be the jackpot:

    http://www.pegym.com/forums/premature-ejaculation-forum/51288-yoga-poses-pelvic-floor-stretching-relax-your-muscles.html
     
  13. Goodlooking

    Goodlooking Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Yeah, I was reading those links too. Good that you took the time to put them here. There are some success-stories on there too.

    I actually think this is one of the big factors we've been missing, atleast for the long rebooters. It all really really makes sense! We've got the same symptoms. I read that something that can contribute to bad pelvic muscles which along with overused pc-muscle caused ED is sitting in a bad posture for too many hours every day. I used to sit like a moron, legs everywhere for many hours everyday.

    I will be doing reversed kegels, massaging, and squats(just to strengthen the pelvic muscles a bit) and we'll see how it goes. For the first time in forever i feel hope.
     
  14. alldonewiththat

    alldonewiththat New Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    This is a great thread. I just tried this reverse kegel meditation technique. Am going to add it to my morning meditation. I tried a bit of light touching while doing it (without the goal of getting hard), and actually felt a bit horny for the first time in a while. There may be something to this.

    http://www.pegym.com/forums/premature-ejaculation-forum/49516-reverse-kegel-breathing-meditative-reverse-kegels.html

    Note: Do NOT try the touch test if it's something that trigger relapse for you. Just do the breathing.
     
  15. BilboBagins

    BilboBagins Through adversity, there is redemption

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    I used to sit for hours and hours gaming with poor posture now everyday I am trying to fix a heavy anterior pelvic tilt. I am doing a lot of glute activation and I am so sure that when I contract my glutes I do a kegel so from now on, I will never kegel but only reverse kegel to compensate for my rehabilitation of the glutes and posterior chain. If you'd like I can post my "workout" but it's for ANTERIOR Pelvic tilt, you have to make sure and recognize your postural shortcomings
     
  16. Goodlooking

    Goodlooking Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    I've been doing some reversed kegels throughout the days, not much at all. Also been testing the erection to porn images though, I know bad!

    I just had a 90% erection from a regular nude picture. That hasn't happened in atleast 5 years or perhaps more. This is definately why my progress has been non existing. The porn thing is also very realy, that caused my loss in libido and probably also made this ED thing much worse. But wow. This is the first time in ATLEAST 5 years i've had an erection that I could have sex with.

    Long term rebooters atleast try some reversed kegels. The most important thing is for us who have overstrained the muscles down there is to stop doing kegels to get the last urine out and just casually do some reverse kegels now and then. AND relax if you masturbate/have sex, I always tensed up and used kegels all the time to come as fast as I could. This also caused my PE which has also gotten alot better.

    Don't let my words make you watch porn again it's just that -I- was such an extreme case so early I knew there is something else besides the porn aswell!

    I hope I haven't jinxed myself now!
     
  17. Geezer

    Geezer New Member

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    So all this. the threads on PEGYM, and the study (randomized controlled trial) by Dorey are making me think that there is a balance between doing regular kegels and the reversed and that both should be used - maybe in alternation.

    A companion paper from Dorey to the one I posted earlier in this thread talks only about what appear to be ordinary kegels and describes them in some detail. PDF at:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1324914/

    and claims a 40% cure rate for ED with 75% showing IIEF improvement.

    Some of the comments on PEGYM seem to indicate that both regular and reverse should be done. I'm going to try alternation and will report back. I have noticed that I tend to clench the PC muscles when I'm not thinking about them, so I do think the reverse and relax is important as an exercise and the relax important during sex.

    If others have comments based on experience with this for helping ED, I'd really appreciate hearing.
     
  18. marco

    marco Guest

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    As far as I know, PC muscles are located between your balls and butt, if you put your hand on that area and do a normal kegel, you can feel that muscle tightening. If you start doing kegels automatically when gettina an erection and if you have to kegel to let out the last drops of urine than your muscles are out of balance. The point is to relax that area between butt and balls by pushing out instead of clenching it. Also massaging that spot every day or every other day foe a few minutes can only help get the tension out.

    How many times a day and for how long should reverse kegels be done?
     
  19. BilboBagins

    BilboBagins Through adversity, there is redemption

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Macro, I do it once after doing my daily stretching+glute activation since I fear during my glute activation I inadvertently tense my PC muscles and one again at night.

    Also check this out:

    http://www.prematurej.com/tennis-ball-massage

    http://www.prematurej.com/pc-muscle-stretch-2

    http://www.prematurej.com/bc-muscle-stretching
     
  20. marco

    marco Guest

    Re: Have I been doing it wrong all this time? / Overactive PC Muscles?

    Excelent stuff, thanks man. Do you see any benefits from reverse kegels?
     

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