Outroverts - Introverts wanting to get out & socialize [GROUP] (5 spots left)

This group is for older introverts looking to take their reboot further and start getting out of the house and socializing more. The goal here is for action, as opposed to over-analysis. Ideally this group would be 30 and 40+ aged members, but open to others if you're a good fit. You should have at least one streak of 10 days being PMO-free. A journal and a link to it in your forum sig, as well as a counter, is required. Familiarity with Stoicism and an interest in meditation a plus

Single or married is fine. This group is not limited to meeting women, but not excluded either. If you're an older introvert who has let their social life atrophy and you want to get back out into the world, this is the group. I believe changing old patterns and habits is a great way to get through the reboot, and that introverts are probably susceptible to PMO because of their preference for solitude.

Members:

1. Omega Man (admin)
2. Real_Rewards
3. Midge
4. Phoenix Rising
5. Giles
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

I'll start this off with a brief bio: constant PMO from age 12. ED issues. PMO escalated after high-speed Internet connection was obtained, which coincided with working from home, about 7 years ago. Social outlets dwindled with age and the lack of a need to leave the house often. Never tried to quit porn before, discovered YBOP late January and started my reboot immediately. I primarily did this for depression and increasing social anxiety. Single, never married. No kids.

Currently at Day 52 after a few counter resets, my longest streak to date. Confidence and ease in socializing is slowly returning. I'm looking to get the social aspect of my life back on track. I want to meet new people who share my interests, and potentially meet some women. I took myself out of the game a while back. I can be social and outgoing when I am "on", I've just lost my swagger.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

Thanks for setting up the group, OM. I'm early 50s, PMO since an early teen, have worked in home office for a decade or so (after years of corporate life), and developed a daily PMO habit, thanks to high-speed internet and my addled, porn-seeking brain. I am a couple weeks into my reboot, and things are going pretty well in that regard. Happily married for many years. Kids are grown and out of the house.

I've been an introvert all my life. I can mix when it's called for, but I've always preferred not to. That proclivity, plus my years of working at home, have left me with few close friends (one or two, other than my wife) and a growing sense of isolation as I grow older. I don't like that aspect of my personality. I've always wanted to be more gregarious, more involved in the world outside. And I've always been envious of people who slip in and out of social situations with ease.

I live inside my head more than is healthy. Too many books, too much ruminating and brooding. Too much internet (non-porn, I mean). I have on/off depression and anxiety. My marriage is happy, but other than that, I don't get much joy out of life. I'm hoping that kicking the PMO will help with my joy deficit, and I realize that getting out and getting involved also help solidify the reboot and get P out of my life for good.

For my, I'd like this group to be about setting plans and putting them into action. With that in mind, I will declare an early goal here for myself: Join a club or class of some kind that meets regularly. Thinking maybe the local observatory, which holds classes and regular meetings. I'm also thinking about joining a local philosophy club. Or a local hiking "meetup" group. Obviously, there are plenty of options. Just need to get off my ass.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

Tonight, on my way home from an SA meeting, I recalled a chapter in the story of my life that's symptomatic of my introvertedness/shyness. A couple of years ago, a new neighbor moved into the apartment adjacent to mine. She was young, beautiful, black-haired, short and petite - in brief: exactly my type. So far, so good. I even had the heart to ring that doorbell and ask her if she'd also heard that squeaking shutter slamming against the outside wall every time there was a storm. That shutter had been bugging me for quite some time and this gave me the perfect reason to make a move and approach her. She said she'd also heard the noise, but couldn't find the source of it. She let me in to check her shutters, saying maybe I'd have more luck in finding the one in question. I didn't and left. There were other times when I rang that doorbell, but I never had the courage to ask her out.

What happened then? I started a relationship with her - in my head. For about 1 year I secretly led a relationship with that girl, without her knowing anything about it. In my fantasy, we'd have long and meaningful conversations about the world, life and love, walk down endless alleys together, kiss, cuddle, wake up side by side, and so on. I didn't ask her out because I was too afraid to be rejected. I'd already fallen in love with her and rejection would have torn my heart to pieces. At the same time I was constantly suffering from love pangs, to the point of almost becoming paranoid. Clarity would have put an end to that. But I was so addicted to that romantic fantasy, I just couldn't stop. Until she moved out a year later. If she hadn't, I'd probably be "loving her from a distance" to this day, who knows? Oneitis at its worst. Still, it's part of my story. I can learn from those past situations, and I hope I already have to some degree.

Hi, I'm Phoenix Rising, 42, single, addicted to anything based on lust, a recovering nice guy, codependent, loveshy and introverted. I've never been parts of cliques. Even when I felt a sense of togetherness and belonging during my clubbing days (about twenty years ago), I only had loose aquaintances and no real intimate friendship with anyone. I have issues with trust and intimacy due to my parental background. I grew up in a dysfunctional family. My dad had a severe drinking problem, my mother was a codependent spouse. I usually teamed up with my mom to stop my dad's drinking and adopted her codependence in the process. Not only did I adopt my dad's addiction patterns, I also became a nice guy, which means living by the following rules: never show your real feelings, always hide who you really are, do anything so that people will like you, never put your needs first, avoid setting boundaries. That mindset paved the way for my addiction that I always acted out in isolation. It gave me the feeling of comfort, of being in control, and helped me forget my loneliness. It took me almost thirty years to realize that I was living a lie.

I started out with fantasies, with some porn thrown in here and there. Later, I'd secretly record softcore shown on TV with my vcr and hide the tapes from my parents. I remember the dopamine hits I got from pushing the rec button when something sexy was on, that head rush - I had to own the footage and be able to replay it over and over again. Video rentals were off limits for me, I would've died of embarrassment to walk into one of those stores and actually pick up an XXX videotape. Things escalated when I got my first internet connection. I went on binges almost every day. Broadband made matters worse. Altogether, I must have spent years clicking and saving pictures, streaming porn video clips and edging. It all led me into deep depression and it wasn't until I realized I had ED issues with the only woman I did a little more with than just kiss that I knew I had to make some changes in my life.

I don't have too many friends. There's one lady friend I see regularly. We've known each other for more than twenty years now. Feels good to have someone who cares. We do a lot together and I can safely say that our relationship has grown over the years. Since I stopped PMO, I've been doing a lot for myself, like exercising, going to the gym, triathlon/marathon, an autogenics course, going to SA and ACOA meetings, cooking classes, but I still have problems with meeting new people, especially women. I tend to stay inside my comfort zone. I've had some success at talking to strangers, still do it from time to time. But I want to do more. That's why I'd like to join this group. Thanks for starting it, OM.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

Hey OM, midge, PR, and future Outroverts. I don't have time to give much of bio this post as I am leaving for a 4th of July BBQ in about 5 minutes (I'm already going to arrive fashionably late), but I thought this would be the kind of situation I would be posting about here—plus I just discovered the group was official. Thanks for starting the group OM.

I am a little anxious about going to this BBQ for a few reasons: first, I just was invited a couple hours ago so I didn't really have time to prepare (whatever the hell that means) since I haven't been to one for a while. Second, I've been feeling a low in enthusiasm and am self conscious that I will be viewed as anti-social. Third, the friend that invited me is my Zumba teacher and my past interactions with her husband have not faired to well. He's a real friendly guy, who works for an unnamed federal bureau organization (that I won't mention cause they probably could spy on my computer communications). The past two times I tried to be friendly with him, he courteously greeted me then dismissed talking with me. I felt quite self-conscious about it, although I know rationally it's not so much about him disliking me, but rather he just isn't that interested in connecting for whatever reason. He definitely is an extrovert with developed social skills and I imagine I was trying too hard to impress him plus he could probably detect I'm somewhat socially awkward—not to mention my state of low enthusiasm. Anyway, enough about him cause I can't control his thoughts, but you all get the picture I'm going to be uncomfortable with how to interact with him. I thought writing about it would help me get clear about not worrying about what he thinks and instead focus on being responsible for being myself and not take things personal.

BTW, I probably wouldn't have the courage to have gone if it wasn't for seeing this group started. Thanks again OM. Will report tonight after the event…

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

It's good to meet, or re-meet, you guys. It looks like we got a few things in common, all right.

It sounds like you all are making proactive efforts to get out and do things. Beyond getting together every couple weeks with my wife's church friends (they're my friends, too, but I'm not a church-goer) and one-night-a-week volunteering, I just don't get out or try new things. I also have a bit of an internet addiction, which means I'm often satisfied just sitting here like a lump in the evenings, cruising the web, reading, watching, etc. Not porn, mind, but just about anything else. And to think they once called television the "vast wasteland." TV has nothing on the internet when it comes to vastness or waste. I love reading books, but in recent years even that's slacked off due to too much internet use. Anyway, the upshot is, I don't get out, and I need to. I also want to meet new people and hear some new ideas, have some new experiences. With such few friends now, I live in a sort of echo chamber. Not much new gets through.

RR, how did the BBQ go? It's great that you took the shot and went to it. I would've been thinking up excuses not to go. But I'm sure your choice was the right one, even if Mr. Extrovert was there. Did you have a decent time?

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

Real: one thing that stood out to me immediately about your post is that it was based on fantasy/future thoughts, also (as you pointed out) about things you cannot control. That rumination about the future is a killer. But if you do go to those events, it a good way to show yourself how wrong those thoughts can be.

Some superb tips for going to these types of things: just ask questions. Don't try to agree, or make friends, or even find common interests. Don't be offended if they show no curiosity in you or your topics. At least it helps me. Either way, glad you went out and made it happen.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

Phoenix: welcome! Your mention of the term "oneitis" tells me you've done some research on the "Nice Guy Syndrome" (one-itis, for those unfamiliar is like an illness where you get caught up with thinking about one specific girl; a tongue in cheek term). I think some of that "pickup artist" stuff (which I've read in the past) can be helpful. I was thinking that might be some good stuff to add to the original post - tips and things.

One task I think all of us here would find helpful is the one to smile and say "Hi" to everyone you pass during the day. I realize many of us either work from home or are temporarily unemployed, but even still we should be doing more of that when we do venture out. And the word "hi" -- not hello, how are you, etc is specific. I find it very difficult for some reason the say the actual word hi to strangers. I'm working on it.

I like the idea of having ongoing tasks, as well as larger more specific ones.

I'd like to give the group a weekend or more to settle in with any potential new members. With the holiday and all many may be away for a bit. But after that, we should start discussing the first quest. I think for this group action trumps discussion. We should be discussing what we did, not what we want to do.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

Hey guys. Nice to come home to record my thoughts after the BBQ. I'm liking this group idea so far. Since 4th of July only comes once a year, I will take some time to determine my getting out goals for the near future.

There are definitely some commonalities I read in all of your backgrounds and together I feel optimistic we can inspire one another to take more charge of our social selves.

It's past midnight, and since I am tired I'm going to defer on the bio part again and report about my BBQ experience. However, I will say I have become more introverted as I get older. I am 51. Although I didn't have an alcoholic father (he was more of an absent one) I can relate to PR in learning to cope by being codependent pleaser from my mother. I seem to remember I have never really been a happy, gregarious lad, but there have been a few times I remember enjoying and being confident with people that I have seemed to have lost. As a people-pleaser sometimes others really have liked me, but I suppose I really never felt good about myself.

About my BBQ experience: It was nothing like I expected it to be. So yeah, OM, deciding to go was a great reality check about my anxieties. Reminds me of this quote I memorized in my early twenties when I was very shy:
"Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win, by fearing to attempt"
— Shakespeare

By the time I got there, I think I let go of any expectations (in fact, I expected to feel uncomfortable if I was going to improve). However, the reality was better than I could have ever expected. At first it was a little awkward because I did imagine a lot of people there, and instead I was the first one who arrived... Just me, my friend, and her extroverted husband. I decided to greet him courteously and then just talk with her, if that's what he wanted, and also not to overstay my welcome. Well, he immediately offered me a beer and told me to park my motorcycle (I love my motorcycle) in the drive way. So far so good. To make a long night short, I began to feel more comfortable—yet not too much like a kiss-ass—and the conversation wasn't all that bad—from basketball (his favorite topic) to cooking. [OM, I'm actually really good at asking questions—people tell me I am good listener, which I interpret as they like me because I show an interest them. The challenge for me is often being confident with what I have to share about myself.] Eventually, another couple showed up—a friendly plaintiff lawyer and his charming pregnant wife. Being in the company of two extroverted men does have it's advantages cause they always have something to say. The conversation became more lively and I actually got few hardy laughs. In the end, the couple decide to leave bc the pregnant wife was feeling queazy. I then said it was time for me to go, too (figuring I accomplished my social goal for the night). Well, my friend asked me whether I wasn't going to join them to watch the fireworks up on the local hill. So I did. I got to know them better the rest of the night and he actually said "we need to get you out more" when I mentioned I didn't know where the place the fireworks were coming from. He may have just been friendly, but no matter, my fears about him finding me "uninspiring" had faded. I even found out more about his work for that federal bureau org. He investigates and arrests child pornographers. Crazy, huh!

Well, it's been a good night. Off to bed with no craving for P after three days in heat. Best to all.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

Sounds like a rousing success! You've started the group off right, now we all have something to catch up to

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (7 spots left)

I read Dr. Glover's book and from the first page I was floored. It was like reading about my own life.

I should've explained the term oneitis. You have already given a good definition, OM. I might add that you have oneitis when a crush becomes chronic and out of control, it's another form of addiction. Like the experience I had with my neighbor. I couldn't let her go, I was obsessed with her, from a distance. I was lovesick all the time, but I kept the distance and avoided being outspoken about the feelings I had for her because I was too afraid to get hurt. Had I been direct and actually made the choice to ask her out, it would have provoked a certain reaction that I didn't want to hear - no matter if the answer had been yes or no. Either way, it would have burst my safe fantasy bubble. When you're suffering from oneitis, you want to stay in that bubble and wallow in self-pity over a love unrequited. What a weird state of mind. But I know it oh so well...

I've read a lot of stuff from the seduction community, it's interesting, a lot of ideas correlate with the advice given in "No more Mr. Nice Guy", there are many overlaps...but I don't know if I want to be a "geek with techniques", as that pickup stuff comes up with a lot of techniques aimed at becoming a good seducer, a player, someone who scores with the girls. Is that what I really want? Basically, my goal is to be more authentic, to feel more comfortable around people, and to end up having an intimate relationship with a woman I can connect with. It would be a huge step forward for me to have success with the girls and not always wind up in the friend zone, no doubt, but wouldn't that pure seduction thing be just another way to act out my addiction (take it to another level)? I'm not sure, but I'll give it another thought.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

That is a great report, RR. And it goes to show just how far from reality our perceptions often (almost always??) are. It's easy to imagine people are looking (maybe wishing, to a degree?) to see us trip up, or to best us somehow, in social situations. But I think the reality is that most people do actually want others to be comfortable around them. (Well, once we're all out of high school, that is.) We put those pressures on ourselves, for the most part, and without much basis in reality.

I TOTALLY agree about hanging out with talkative people, though. If I'm to be out with a group, I MUCH prefer to be with people who are talkative, even narcissistic--all it takes is a few thoughtful or well-timed questions, and they carry the majority of the conversation. I have an acquaintance who asks me to lunch about twice a year. He is a world-class talker, and we are miles apart on the introvert-extrovert scale, but I never worry about our get-togethers because as long as I have 4-5 probing questions about his business in my pocket, he does 89% of the talking. He's one of those guys who shows no interest in my affairs or my work (hence, he's an acquaintance, not a friend), but he's happy to chat all day about his.

I realize that's a crutch, but it comes in handy in some situations. Fact is, I've always been pretty comfortable in a listening role.

Anyway, glad the BBQ went well and you were pleasantly surprised.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

What's the Glover book you're referring to, PR?

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

PR: I've not read that Mr. Nice Guy book, but from skimming the webpage it seems to be related to pickup/seduction info I've read. And I should qualify that angle: I do not think the pickup/seduction stuff is healthy either (as you said). But they have pointed me to see where some of my social anxiety issues lie (I too was floored by some of this stuff when I first found it). I think the more responsible guy have some good advice for getting out of your introverted comfort zone.

What I was saying was more that some of the advice for not being a "Nice Guy" might help with general socializing. The stuff I liked best was the stuff that encouraged one to meet and interact with all people, not try to "score phone numbers". I believe if those of us looking for relationships with women apply the techniques of just being more social in general with everybody, it will flow into that area for those who desire to do so. I was cherry-picking tips from those guys.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

Midge: I do the same thing as you mentioned. But one thing I've found over time that can run me the wrong way is that you end up just being a listener in the eyes of those people. Rarely do they ask you about your life, interests, activities. Over time it can make one a bit resentful. I've had to learn to not lean on that crutch too much, it can backfire. It's a great tool for breaking the ice though.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

That's very true, OM. I try not to lean on it much with people I see regularly, but with my biennial lunch partner, I'm happy enough with the technique. I don't really feel like sharing too much with him, and it gets me through what would otherwise be a painful hour.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

I think that's one of the things introverts need to remember in social situation, that extroverts tend to be less conscientious of others in conversation. Have to remember it isn't (hopefully) a lack of interest or concern. Might be a good thing to look into, and perhaps include in our activities: being a bit more outgoing with our sharing in conversations.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

Midge, I could see why you categorize that friend as a social acquaintance. I think that is an important distinction I learned to make. I'm learning it is beneficial to cultivate a network of various personalities, but when I read the comments of my "friends" on Facebook (i.e., when I do venture to take a look), I can only think I'd never be a close friend to some of them according to what they seem to find interesting—the funny thing is it also includes many of my relatives. Anyways, it's balancing act I suppose. The one personality type I will avoid if at all possible though, is the narcissist. My father fit that profile and I find it sucks the energy out of me... they are unable to separate their experience from others, and they rarely are aware of it.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

I believe you are right about most people in social situations. Most (adults) don't wants to be rude. And I certainly agree we mostly repeat to ourselves the story that people have nothing better to do than judge us. In CBT this is called a cognitive distortion. There are a batch of distortions such as "rumination about the future" you mentioned OM. Perhaps in a future post I will list the types cognitive distortion I learned few years ago from therapy. Practicing them is another matter.

 

Re: Outroverts [GROUP] (6 spots left)

So this post I'd like to say something about my self and my intentions in this group. Like all here so far, as an introvert, who for the last couple years have been working at home, I soon cut off much of my boring social life and got quite comfortable with my PMO ritual. At first I thought it was god's gift to my loneliness and fetish for the female body. Since I think most of us already know about the negative effects of PMO and the ensuing isolation, I'd like to write more about goals and interest.

After 66 days without looking at P and going 150 days PMO free, I realized managing to quit P wasn't going to be enough to thrive in spite of the positive physiological benefits. I'm now convinced my P addiction developed over a period of time as a way to manage life's uncomfortable challenges. Therefore, my outlook now in dealing with this addiction is to learn to develop life skills in order to work through social challenges in healthy and affirmative ways. The strategies I am using to do this, so far, are:
1. mindfulness and mediation—in the buddhist tradition mostly
2. keeping myself accountable and sharing with this group with similar values and social interests
3. doing an online workshop that focuses on acting from a value-based recovery rather than disease-based recovery. The link to my workshop thread is in my signature.

As we shape this group, I'd like to share some of my action plans to improve my social life. Also to share tips, tools, and support with you all.

Look forward to the collective effort that we create.