No PMO= more muscle and facial hair

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by joelski, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. joelski

    joelski New Member

    I don't care what anyone says the science says. I've gone almost 45 days free from PMO, and before that I had a long streak as well. I've gained a considerable amount of muscle, I was 165 and now I'm 185 and not all of it is muscle but a lot is. I know that because my lifts at the gym have gone way up. I'm bench pressing over 200 lb, dead lifting over 350, that's a gigantic increase over what I used to do.

    And I used to have hardly any facial hair, just a few spots that formed a thin goatee but now getting hair growing in more thick all over my face.

    Many people say that no PMO can't increase your T levels and I don't know if mine have gone up but I do know that I feel fantastic and I'm much stronger and more muscular. Even my mom has noticed it and commented that I look more muscular. I had spent a couple years in the gym before and never had nearly the results I've had in the last few months.
  2. joelski

    joelski New Member

    I'm 6'1" 185 now but I used to be a lot lighter. My goal is to get to 200 lb before I cut.

    I would say you should hit the gym hard every day. Skip the body weight exercises, stick to deadlifts, squats, bench press etc, eat lots of calories and stop fapping to porn. You'll see some great results- just stay dedicated!
  3. aquiles

    aquiles New Member

    What I notice, is that when I no PMO, I am ultra focused, and have loads of energy to use during the day. Also, the high libido helps with getting bigger.
  4. Gary Wilson

    Gary Wilson Active Member

    It is true that many guys report big gains, where they didn't prior to no PMO. Maybe something is occurring. Would need good studies. I still find it hard to believe its testosterone as all human and animal studies have shown no real changes with either abstinence or high levels of ejaculation.

    That said, no one has done a study on men who were porn addicts and then abstained. Does the addicted state affect stress responses, and maybe alter endocrine hormones? Might it involve hormones not usually measured, or hormones yet to be discovered, or does it involve neurotrophic factors? Or is it simply more energy?

    It would be relatively easy an cheap to asses a few major hormones at intervals over a 6 month period. Wouldn't need a control group.
  5. joelski

    joelski New Member

    Yeah I can't speak for any of the science, but I know my body and I've seen major changes. I am way stronger and bigger and it happened in a short period of time. I've been lifting for a while and made modest gains before but nothing like this. I've been dedicated, but I've been dedicated before too and even had some coaching from a power lifter.

    I can't help but think that abstaining after years of PMO addiction has fundentally changed my hormone levels. I can't really think of any reason for the changes. I can post pictures for proof just give me a few minutes.
  6. gildarts

    gildarts 20 y/o Male

    Have your T level checked, if you are around 18-30 years old you should have around 800-950/ng T level in your blood.

    The medical range of normal T value is 250-1000 but thats bullshit, I had 370 and my doctor said its in the normal range. I checked up a few things about Testerone value and 350 T level is the normal range for the avarage 85 year old. So its not normal for me since Im 20 years old. My normal value is around 800-950. So have your T checked and ask for the details in how high or low your T really was.

    Im now 2 months into my recovery and My T value is now higher, its 450. I notice that Its higher tho since my voice is darker and I gain little more muscles plus my body and facial hair growing faster now.

    Many ppll claim Porn+fapping doesnt affect testerone levels but for me it does and for many others. The tests that have been made on the subject have probally been doing it wrong, maybe their test subject only masturbated alot or watched porn alot but I am pretty sure its fapping+watching porn at the same time that reduces the T level if you overdo it and do it longterm. There have been some tests that have been made on the subject where their patient did fap+watch porn at the same time and they noticed that their T level reduced in their patients.

    Just dont fap or watch porn and your Testerone and other hormones will stabilize to their normal levels, It ceirtently works for me.
  7. joelski

    joelski New Member

    I've never had my T levels checked and frankly I'm not worried about it right now.

    I've seen enough results to know I have very healthy T levels right now. I'm sure when I was fapping away though they were less than optimal. I know a lot of folks here say that isn't the case but I know my body and something is drastically different now.
  8. daone

    daone Where I'm gonna be ought to be uncharted

    It depends, i am 6'3 and 175..i used to be 185 but i have the classic soccer player build. I would much rather have lean muscles like i do now and keep my agility and quickness instead of becoming ripped. It is all about what feels comfortable for you, i play alot of sports so i feel comfortable with weight up to 190 pounds but no more.
  9. Daimon

    Daimon Member

    I've read that its not testosterone levels, but rather testosterone expression is what is affected by constant PMO. For example: You could naturally be pumping out tons of testosterone, but you won't see any physical effect if you're PMOing constantly because PMO stunts receptors for that hormone.
  10. gameover

    gameover Age: 26

    I have noticed mire body hair, facial hair thicker etc but I just turned 24 so maybe im still gaining manly traits naturally.
  11. Cozmo

    Cozmo Member

    as known, testesterone goes down when ejaculation occur, prolactin spikes up

    alot of porn promotes prolactin and cortisol ans estrogen and stress hormones, this lowers Testesterone, LH and FSH ( decrease depends on the person)
  12. Gary Wilson

    Gary Wilson Active Member

    You are talking about the rat studies that show a decline in brain testosterone receptors. They are thought to bounce back after 4 days of abstinence, Our article with many studies - Men: Does Frequent Ejaculation Cause A Hangover?
  13. Gary Wilson

    Gary Wilson Active Member

    Where are the studies to support this? Sorry, but this sounds suspiciously like it came from the Dr.Richards website, or herbalove.

    Prolactin does spike at ejaculation, but probably returns to baseline in an hour or so. This not relevant, because this also occurs with sex. In fact, sexual intercourse increase prolactin 400% more than masturbation. That would mean that sexual intercourse would be 4 times more "damaging".

    A New study this week found that LOW prolactin was linked to sexual problems. Men's Sexual Problems Linked to Low Prolactin Levels
  14. Cozmo

    Cozmo Member

    alot of prolactin > 10 or low prolactin <2 is a problem ( pituitary)
    ps: herbal love, Richard promotes herbs that are stimulating your body not solving the problem, if you are sexual exhausted ( chronic fatigue) then you may need to understand the root cause.
  15. Gary Wilson

    Gary Wilson Active Member

    All the studies you cite are on YBOP and discussed under Any connection between orgasm, abstinence, and testosterone levels?

    It is cited every other week on nofap. The abstract is not saying what it seems to be saying. Testosterone does NOT increase at all. Please see my faq that has the entire study, the graph and my explanation. Testosterone Research versus Testosterone Myths - - scroll down to #3 & #4

    This states exactly what I said- that prolactin rises at orgasm. It also states that there were no changes in other hormones, which was the point I was making. It is a normal process. Men with PIED do not have chronic high levels of prolactin. As we have been monitoring these men for years, and many get blood tests. That's my main take away fro readers.

    I got nothing against supplements or Traditional Chinese Medicine but, what Richards does is simply string together a bunch of physiology that either can't happen or doesn't happen.
    I understand completely what sexual exhaustion is, and what Richards promotes. We have had these discussion before, with Gibson, and the Richards model does not fit PIED.

    My faq where I address Dr. Richards unsupported physiology - What about 'sexual exhaustion?'

    The infamous thread were Gibson doesn't address any of my points. Please read my posts to get a full understanding of what the debate really is about and what evidence exists.

    I understand prolactin and orgasm, as it was something we covered in depth in our books.

    I don't know how to say this different -

    1) Prolactin does not stay elevated.
    2) Sex releases 400% more prolactin than masturbation -
    3) All the thousands of men who have men who have blood test show normal prolactin

    1) Please cite a study that say that prolactin stays chronically elevated as it would if someone had a pituitary tumor - which is the only way to cause the problems you suggest occur.
    2) Explain why sex doesn't cause far worse problems , when 400% more prolactin is released?
    3) Explain why none of the men with PIED had high prolactin?

    This shows prolactin decreasing, so that counters your point that high prolactin is caused by porn.. It shows cortisol rising, but I have many studies where guys masturbated to porn and there were different results (note that almost all the studies on the hormonal effects of orgasm have subjects masturbate to porn -

    But none of that matters for porn addiction or PIED, because the levels of hormones rise and fall all the time. Again - men with PIED usually have blood tests. The blood tests are normal. There is absolute no evidence that altered hormones have anything to do with PIED. All evidence is to the contrary.

    I'll give you a heads up - We wrote 2 books about the neuroenodcrine changes that occur at or orgasm. I have bee looking into it for 12 years. It is the reason that YBR & YBOP exist.

    All of the rebooting from PIED started on my wife's site 7 years ago- http://www.reuniting.inf/science - the reason men showed up there is because it had s articles about the hormonal and brain changes that occur because of orgasm. See a short synopsis in these two articles:
    - What happens when you ejaculate too much?
    - Women: Does Orgasm Give You A Hangover?

    What is not understood here is that hormones rise and fall at the drop of a hat. For example cortisol goes through the roof when subjects give a speech - does that mean people who give a lot of speeches will end up with ED?

    It usually only chronically elevated levels that cause problems. The key point here is that Dr. Richards claims that chronically low or elevated hormones are the problem. However, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT MEN WITH PIED HAVE CHRONICALLY HIGH OR LOW LEVELS OF ANY HORMONE.

    Why do I care?

    As stated in this faq - - If you believe your problems are from "sexual exhaustion" or "too much masturbation" then porn is NOT the cause of your sexual dysfunctions, ejaculation is - and porn is now an option. I have seen that happen too many times, especially on nofap/reddit
  16. Cozmo

    Cozmo Member

    First iam talking about excessive use of M or P, mixed together

    i may agree, but they may show high TSH or Low LH-FSH that is a marker for low Testesterone and low sperm count production

    I cited them, and you can simulate it for those who excessively masturbate as i mentioned, or excessively look to p, that why a person feels moody due to the domination of some hromones on another, like prolactin , Estradiol, low thyroid..etc.

    excessive sex does make you exhausted, yet i have no studies on human but take a look into these research

    ejaculation a day or 12 hours before the test, can elevate the levels, when i mentioned high prolactin , i didnt mentioned that being above 10 more than one test can indicate to a problem.
    similar if you have a high cortisol that can indicate a dysfunction in adrenal balance.

    I will read them.

    If they couldnt control their stress, then may be.
    people with high stress always complain about ED, most of the people have alow activity.

    cortisol counter acts Testosterone, lowers DHEA and ignites liver to dulge their gluccogen, and other activities and roles , ( Iam talking about levels that exceeds 18pmol in the normal range and exceed)

    thats why now says, people are more stressed, more diebetic, memory problem.

    the same goes for p, more stress, more exhaution, more brain wiring, and more of consuming the energy into

    tell me Gary, can you have an erection (assuming you are a normal guy), while drive a car in a highway, or while running?

    this is what people over here compalin about, the PIED, brain wired and a body that cant handle real expierence due to being excessively stressed, or completely wired to Images.

    High cortisol level, helps people to fear
    while addicts are complaining from it when they leave P or Indulge in it when they are on high stress to relieve their tension.

    If iam not mistaken, richard is not a doctor, he is a copier of Lin theory.

    yet both claim that a pill can cure, where is the fact tests, having a major plan, doing other exclusive test for neuros metabolite can show deeper cause problem.

    Once again,I dont promote for a theory, but i believe that P can have bad results on our body ( Brain mainly, and hormones), excessive use can cause desensitivity to reality.

    the same goes for M addiction, and sex addiction, they reduce the body ability to recover, thus inducing new health problems.
  17. Brunevii

    Brunevii Something I try to teach all my boys..

    You're more muscular because you've been hitting the gym.

    Which increases testosterone.

    Not because you quit PMO - which probably has little impact on testosterone.

    People, use a little critical thinking.
  18. Gary Wilson

    Gary Wilson Active Member

    It's a bit frustrating hashing this all out again. The study above is thoroughly covered in the article I gave you What happens when you ejaculate too much?

    We have every study from that particular lab in Mexico which specializes in the effects of orgasm on rats. It is in our book. We have had communications with the researchers.

    I spent 12 years looking at the research surrounding orgasm, ejaculation, and abstinence. These same questions come up every week on forums, so I have been answering them again and again for 6 years now. This is not meant to be cocky. I simply know what has been studied and not studied.

    Everything you cite so far can be found on YBOP, in the Start here for an overview of concepts & science - either directly mentioned, or in links to my FAQ's. I've covered everything thing else in the "Gibson thread".

    I'll speak in generalities.

    Dr, Richards doesn't exist, and there is absolutely no research to back anything he says in this article (for example) -
    It's all been rehashed in the links I gave you.

    If your ED is caused by low thyroid function or adrenal exhaustion, then it is not PIED. That is why we say on YBOP to see a doctor and have blood tests. Or see an alternate practitioner like a TCM doctor and be treated within that model.

    As I said, hormones rise and fall all the time - watching a soccer game will cause cortisol to shoot up and testosterone increase by 40%....then both fall. Hormones rise and fall second to second, moment to moment - all day long. In the links I posted you would see many studies on masturbation to porn show no changes in cortisol or testosterone - such as:

    But fleeting changes do not matter. What matters is chronically high or low levels of hormones.

    If you think you have chronically low cortisol, then have tests. Many suggest 24 Hr saliva that measures cortisol and other steroid hormones 4 times during the day. Definitely have everything checked.

    best of luck to you.
  19. Brunevii

    Brunevii Something I try to teach all my boys..

    Self-reported data is very often bad. Was he eating enough before? We don't know.
  20. joelski

    joelski New Member

    I was eating plenty before.
    All that would happen is I would gain fat.
    I've definitely gained fat this time too but not nearly as much. I am way stronger and more muscular.
    I can't give you too much specific data but I can show before and after pics.

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