Never Giving Up

Discussion in 'Ages 20-24' started by TrainingTheDragon, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Re: Never Giving Up [Day 1] [Previous Record: Day 8]

    Almost three weeks since my last update. I thought I'd update once I reached the 7 day mark again but that didn't work out too well. I ended up relapsing every 2-4 days and eventually binged all of last week.

    Been feeling extremely hopeless and depressed these days. I'm so very unsatisfied with my life. I've understood that I'm always at the mercy of my emotions and that's one reason I find it hard to move forward. I can't really count on myself to stick to anything. My mindset is quite negative right now, hardened from my past experiences. Just about all of my memories suffer a negative taint and when I look to do something constructive I only see the problems it will bring. I wish I didn't have to see everything this way.

    The worst part is feeling powerless. I feel soft and fragile, like anyone or anything could break me. I've lost the confidence to do anything with myself because everywhere I look I just see things my life has missed out on. Friends, relationships, good experiences, positive influences. It's even hard for me to watch movies or shows because all I'm really seeing are things I wish I had.

    There's a part of me that feels like I wouldn't even know what to do if I got all these things because I'm so conditioned to feeling like I have nothing in my life.

    I came close to quitting my workouts but I've managed to keep that side of things going. Anyway, I'm firing up my journal again to keep track of my reboot progress. At least I didn't binge while I maintained the journal.
  2. Pedigree

    Pedigree Active Member

    Re: Never Giving Up [Day 1] [Previous Record: Day 8]

    Welcome back, man. Good to see you here again. I smiled when I saw your name on the users currently online list.

    I've been feeling the same way you do. Probably not a coincidence that I've been struggling with my reboot recently.

    It's cliche to say that it'll be tough but it is. The only thing we can do now is watch each other's backs.
  3. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Re: Never Giving Up [Day 1] [Previous Record: Day 8]

    Hey man, I guess it's true that misery loves company lol. I have quite a few journals to catch up on.

    Also forgot to add that I didn't enjoy any of my recent relapses at all apart from the first.
  4. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Re: Never Giving Up [Day 1] [Previous Record: Day 8]

    Day 2 recap:

    Facing a lot of inner turmoil. These days I find myself getting overwhelmed emotionally and randomly crying at times. Don't know what to think because every train of thought leads to a dead end. Feeling imprisoned in my room.

    Still worked out today. My mental state is affecting my performance no doubt.

    Physical energy-wise however, I'm doing better these days as I'm off my diet and eating more. My mental status saps my energy and focus though. Interesting how I fully slipped into this depression after my week long PMO binge. I guess it reinforced my old pathways that I've been trying to break away from.

    Lately I've come to realize that my ability to be happy is so dependent on whether my actions garner approval from the people around me. It's part of why I feel like I don't know who I am. Every time I'm happy it's because I have something going on in my life that I can proclaim to people with pride. However, this feeling never lasts and I quit whatever it is I take up because I feel like it's not what I really want to do. And then every memory associated with that time frame gathers a negative taint in my memory. If I'm not doing anything amazing, I'm ashamed to reveal myself. An unhealthy trap of a pattern.

  5. Pedigree

    Pedigree Active Member

    Re: Never Giving Up [Day 1] [Previous Record: Day 8]

    Start rereading NMMNG again, man. Stat. Stop looking for others' approvals and do what you want to do.
  6. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Re: Never Giving Up [Day 1] [Previous Record: Day 8]

    Been there, done that. I come to all these self-realizations but then I get stuck again when I see how trapped I am in my current situation. I'm qualified to work in a field I don't give two shits about not to mention the job market is over saturated for that qualification and the place I'm in doesn't even have any options for part time work or filler jobs. This place has no culture or natural beauty to speak of so there's nothing to do other than sit at home and avoid the heat especially when you have no friends. No hope for a relationship because I need money to go out, and my self esteem is pretty low right now.

    Bleh. It just sucks when you have no one to talk to about this. Even if I do hang out with anyone, it's fine for a superficial distraction but there's no one I can really open up to. The weird part is I'm so conditioned to feeling like this that I know I'd be pretty uncomfortable if anyone knew how I really felt. Opening up about my troubles to people in the past has been weird. I end up feeling really needy and every subsequent interaction makes me feel like there's an elephant in the room (the troubles) that HAS to be discussed. Part of that is because I feel like people's advice just doesn't register in my head. I'm so caught up with how the situation is a dead-end that it's all I focus on. Eventually, they give up on me which reinforces my distorted perception. I guess it's a manner of self sabotage.

    Logically speaking, it's easy to conclude that I should do what I want to do. Although I have some idea of what I want to do, (relocate and start a new life in a different, more positive environment in the field I'm passionate about) it's going to be such a massive uphill battle for all the reasons stated above but most importantly, I can't depend on myself. I can't rely on my ability to see things through because I'm not a winner. I'm not a go-getter. I think I am some times but I can't control my emotions. I can't tell when things are really as they seem or whether I'm fooling myself.

    A line in NMMNG keeps echoing in my head these days. It's something like "Nice guys received strong messages from childhood that it was never okay to be themselves." and that's exactly how I feel. I don't know how to be myself because I have no sense of self. Growing up, all I had were people out to get me. I used to talk and be really blindly expressive and outgoing and I could use my smarts for productive activities but later on my brother beat me up whenever I expressed myself in any way that he disagreed with. Then at that time at school I got bullied for a few years that started because I had a habit of stretching the truth some times. Not crazy lies, I just had an inflated ego before it started. The bullying threw that in the opposite direction. So the messages that got reinforced in me over 3 years of abuse and adrenaline / panic attacks were that I shouldn't speak my mind and I'm a liar. Just about anything I do gets associated with these messages, especially that of feeling dishonest.

    None of my positive traits have received reinforcement and I can't seem to find out what they are. I try to find them but I can't tell if they're really there any more. All I can see is evidence supporting the argument that they're not. Even if someone were to say that I have this, this and this right now. I'd brush it off thinking "You don't really know me.".

    That's how I'm stuck. Deep inside, the strongest voice in me tells me that I'm doomed to be an underachiever. And each passing day lets it grow.

    Day 3 recap

    I woke up from another one of those dreams about strong affection for someone I know. Instantly felt like shit when my eyes opened as I compared my life to hers and saw how she's grown in her life since I last met her years ago and I feel the same. Thought I'd skip my work out today for the first time in 3 months but after I brushed my teeth, a strange thing happened. My mood lifted so I worked out and wrote a list of ways I'd like to improve myself. I'll try dedicating some time to this list every day so I don't feel completely worthless. I was pretty okay for the rest of the day.

    Man, I don't want to get stuck in another phase of self loathing for the next few months. If I slip, I probably won't come back because I know what's going to happen. I'll stay depressed until I get some idea for a new project and work on that until I get discouraged. Lather, rinse, repeat. Beig aware of this means I'd probably save myself the trouble and jump off a building. For now, I'll have to power on the only way I know how. By myself.

    Mood: 3
    Energy: 7
    Urges: 0
  7. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Re: Never Giving Up [Day 4] [Previous Record: Day 8]

    After a day of defeating thoughts in isolation, I went over to some folks place for drinks and dinner. I felt really uncomfortable the whole time and just wanted to go home. I was on an emotional roller coaster throughout the evening and when I left I felt so much rage, anger and frustration. I wanted to bang the only single chick there but couldn't act on it because of all the depressive thoughts, fear of being perceived negatively for hitting on her and also knowing that my dick wouldn't work. Went home and fired up the porn to drown some of the turmoil. My mind is so fractured, nothing is making any sense. I'm sure I'll binge all day today as well.

    Now I feel trapped by all the self improvement I was working on. An example is that thanks to NMMNG, my actions are further restricted because I see a nice guy in everything I do. Another example is this whole reboot process. The fact that I'm massively failing is another reason for me to feel like shit. Really, where can I go from here? Everywhere I look, I see just reasons to consider myself pathetic. I can't integrate what I learn into productive, consistent action and I'm at the mercy of my emotions. Do you see how messed up my mind is?

    I'm just writing all of this down in the hopes that maybe it can help me some day in the future.
  8. Pedigree

    Pedigree Active Member

    I'm so sorry to read your posts, man. I don't know what I can do to help other than to say that I've been there. I mean your recap of Day 3 where you said you were down and then suddenly you felt optimistic, I've been there too man. I've been there when my mood suddenly went up and I've been there when my mood crashed through the ground.

    I thought this way too at the start of NMMNG. You can start by thinking about the self that was beaten by your brother and the self that you had to hide when you were bullied and learn to embrace that self. Easier said than done, to be sure, but it's something you have to do.

    Regarding your last post, look at the positive side, you're out and about talking with people. This is what you need to do more of, man. Forget banging the only single chick for now just focus on how good it feels to have human interaction.

    Never give up, man, never give up.
  9. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Pedigree, thanks for reading and replying. I really appreciate you trying to understand. I'm trying to find something positive it's just that my mind is so dominated by the negativity and frustration of it all. However, I've ended this entry on a slightly more optimistic note.

    Today was pretty much the same. I'm kind of exhausted from going through this repetitive cycle of dead end thoughts. I think I'll call it dead end syndrome lol. In the two(ish) months after reading NMMNG, it's become clearer to me that my dad is quite a typical nice guy. The strongest reason I say that is because just about all his actions are very soft and thought out so as not to impose. At least when it comes to me. Not a very strong male figure. That isn't to say I look down on him for it although it does get on my nerves. Okay sometimes I do think it's pathetic but I don't blame him for it. He's lived a tough life and endured a lot. He's worn down with age now.

    I started feeling mildly anxious today in the evening. (I used to get crippling panic attacks last year) As time goes by, I appear to be regressing. I feel like fear is taking over my consciousness. I can't depend on myself, can't rely on my emotions or my judgement, no one to help and to top it off I'm stuck in isolation so why bother trying to do anything? My mind is conditioned to fear and instant gratification and even if I did find a job, I'd just lose it when I feel like this again, just like last time. I guess the isolation is a good thing. If yesterday's dinner is anything to go by, perhaps it's better I stay away from people for a while.

    How can it be that every thought entering my head gets tied to a dead end? I'm at a point where it's easier to just think of nothing at all as opposed to try and do something constructive. I've felt like this before. Like placing my brain in a box somewhere where it won't do me any harm.

    God, I'm just 24 and I'm already shitting bricks at the thought of dealing with my life. I'm too young to give up. I guess this is pretty sad. It's quite a recipe for an underachiever actually. Make things a zillion times harder than they are / have to be so I can celebrate the smallest victories alone while those around me leap forward. I'm even more depressed after writing it all down like this. Jesus. This negativity is a slippery slope. I don't want to end this entry and feel like shit in bed so I'll force myself to look through today's events more optimistically in the next paragraph.

    Hmm. Although I did feel mostly miserable, there were times when I stepped out of my room that I didn't feel completely shitty. There were some moments I caught myself just saying negative, dead end things in my head just for the heck of it when I realized "HEY THAT'S NOT TRUE". They were just old voices that I used to hear all the time when I was younger. I realize the importance of not slipping down into the hells of my mind. Once I'm there it's going to be a while before I get out. I'm not sure what I can do to prevent it apart from trying harder to mentally resist the dead-end syndrome. Even as I type this, my mind is saying "There's no point doing that...or that....or know how it ends...don't bother..." etc. But that can't be right. It's all conditioning. Like the meme goes, "I'm doing it wrong". My grip over my mind has weakened and now it's playing tricks on me. Must regain my control.

    By the way if anyone is wondering, this is the difference between a low mood and an actual depressive phase. I guess interested people would find this inside view useful.

    Energy - 7
    Mood - 1
    PMO - NA
  10. Arthur

    Arthur Guest

    Hey Training,

    My work flow got a lot heavier in mid August, and I hadn't checked your journal for a while.

    Today I had a chance to read it and catch up.

    First, it really almost brought a tear to my eye to read some of your descriptions of what you've been going through. Partially because it sounded so much like myself in my 20's and 30's as well.

    (Hm, but that means nothing. No reason AT ALL you can't be quite different way before then).

    In any case, I saw myself in what you wrote. And now I'm older, married, and marriage has been good for me. While I am still struggling with a lot of inner stuff, life is way better than what it was.

    No, I'm not trying to tell you to get married LOL. Not the point. The point is more to say that ... don't believe the lie that things will never change. They can change. I hope in your case they change a lot faster than they did for me. Why did they take so long for me? Because I was too damned stubborn, plain and simple. I resisted change. I held on to all my emotional baggage with the tenacity of a badger.

    I'm not trying to give you any advice. Just telling my story, in case it is of any help to you. But I do have one thought: the NMMNG book was intriguing to me when you told me about it, and still is, though I haven't had any chance yet to read it. But your references to it and the conflicted feelings you have now over it I also related, to my own struggle with being too damned NICE.

    So here is my one piece of advice: if you're a nice guy, then be a nice guy. BUT, always PROTECT your inner child. By that I mean, always stand up for yourself when necessary to protect your vulnerable self within. And try if you can to do that in a nice but firm way, because perhaps, you are, simply, a nice guy.

    Best wishes to you, Training.
  11. Arthur

    Arthur Guest

    I wanted to add, I really liked Clean Hands' post. Some good thoughts there that will be useful to me.
  12. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    @Cleanhands - Appreciate the strong words. I do agree a part of it (the fear based conditioning) is within my ability to control however, clinical depression / bipolar disorder is a little harder to manage. Once you slip into the moody phase, it's not really something you can just snap out of. It doesn't work like a switch. Believe me, I've tried. And I did today as well. I explain the effects it had on me below. The quotes are great but I look at such words with a shade of cynicism now, mostly because I've failed at applying them to my life (something I attribute to my black and white thinking). That's my plateau that I struggle with. My mind kicks my ass.

    @Arthur - Good to see you again, sir. I haven't really been paying much attention to other journals these days but I will catch up on yours soon. The part about holding on to emotional baggage rings true in my case. I really thought I had let it go earlier when I started my journal but the fact that my life isn't really moving forward after all this time leads me to believe I still haven't. What I feel now is that I fool myself into believing I'm moving forward when in reality nothing's changing in my life as I sit in this box thinking myself into a ditch. This combination of baggage and mood swings that alter my perception is what's screwing with me. I don't really have anyone to turn to about this and dealing with all this frustration, loneliness and fear on my own gets overwhelming. I understand there's not going to be a quick fix. It's going to be a process, probably over a significant period of time but I need help and I don't know where to get it.

    Day 1 recap

    Woke up scared. Didn't get much sleep. The anxiety is starting to affect how long it takes me to fall asleep. Took me about two hours last night. Anyway, I was determined to wipe away the negative thoughts as they started today. It happened a lot but each time I just imagined a Kleenex wiping them away. The end result was that my thoughts were mostly neutral. I felt a lightness throughout the day, actually the best word to describe it would be volatility.

    This volatile feeling is hard to describe because I've felt it before but not really found anyone who could relate to it. It's like anything could set me off into either a happiness boost or a rage. I felt rapid swings both ways throughout the day but did my best to keep myself neutral and succeeded mostly. An example;

    I held my public work out and that was pretty good. I had a lot of energy because I was kind of wired from that volatile feeling but also determined to beat the work out which I did and that felt great. While leaving, someone left a bottle of water behind and no one claimed it so I drank some and threw it in the trash with some water left inside it. One of the guys driving me back home asked me why I threw it away and I immediately imploded. I had a flurry of emotions. First an adrenaline rush and mentally I screamed "YOU WANT TO JUDGE ME?" but I just said I didn't want to take it with me. It took me a few minutes to calm down inside. Of course, he had no ill intent but just a simple question caused such an over reaction inside me. I felt so attacked. Part of my conditioning.

    This unstable feeling is hard to manage but it beats circling depressive thoughts so I think it's a step in the right direction. I'm trying to stay in the middle without feeling great emotion either way. When I start thinking, I just shut my mind down. I'll do my best to keep it going and see if it helps me rise out of my depression and lead to productive action.

    Thank you all for your support. Your good intentions are a reminder that not everyone is out to get me.

    Energy - 9
    Mood - 5
    PMO Urges - 0
  13. Arthur

    Arthur Guest

    Hey Training. Just read your last post. Best wishes to you, and hope you find the specific help / action / plan, that you need.
  14. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Day 2 recap

    Mild anxiety and uneasiness in pockets over the day. However, on the whole my mood is slowly improving. The anxiety gets annoying, it interferes with my sleep and left me lying in bed till noon. Once I got up I felt better and after diddling away some time, I had a great work out. My bleak outlook on life wasn't overwhelming today. Managed to get it under control. I hope I'm not speaking too soon when I say I'm slowly coming out of this downward spiral of a depressive phase.

    Couple of things I want to write down:

    1. I really don't want every single thing that happens in my life to remain a negative experience in my mind. It's part of my conditioning and if I don't break this perception I'll surely kill myself one day.

    2. I don't want to live in fear. Fear can get disproportionate to reality and end up crippling / consuming me. This fear robs me of my personal power and guides my decisions (subconscious or not) thus leaving me feeling hopeless and victimized.

    3. Like NMMNG says, I want to view the world as a bountiful place and not one of scarcity. I don't want to feel like having needs makes me unworthy but rather I want to believe that I deserve what I want and need in life.

    4. I also don't want to feel like there's a right way to do everything and if I can manage to get things just right, things will be perfect. This thinking inhibits me. It leaves me feeling like my actions are dictated by how others perceive me. I want to be able to act without giving a shit while at the same time being mindful of context. It's such a massive grey area.

    I have no idea what to do about any of these things but I'm just writing them down.

    Energy - 10 (After a long ass time)
    Mood - 6
    PMO Urges - 0
  15. Jhonny Intratech

    Jhonny Intratech New Member

    Hey dude is there any type of music you like to listen to. Learning an instrument can be a essentially cheap way to pass time. Alls you need is a guitar and a beginners book to teach yourself. If you dont want to spring for the book they have alot if free things online. Chicks dig a dude that can play music.
  16. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    I do play the guitar. Just not motivated to do it at the moment. I never really felt like I learned it for myself anyway. Seems like all I did was learn it so I could be liked.

    Day 0 recap

    Same shit on a new day. I was okay for the first half of the day then in the evening I went deeper into depressive thoughts after seeing facebook profiles of the guys who used to bully me for years back in high school. They're all working, partying, have girlfriends, etc. I feel like they stole something from me. My ability to love myself and find intrinsic happiness. I don't really feel like I've done anything for myself. I feel like I keep try to do new things so I can project an outgoing and awesome self image. Maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me but even my dedication to working out doesn't feel genuine because I'm looking forward to a day when I can post a transformation video. More black and white thinking I guess. I feel like it's not possible to have a genuine dedication to getting healthy and seek admiration at the same time and that the latter desire makes me a selfish, self-centered person.

    You'll notice I reset my counter too.

    Anyway, that's it for the day. Way too much negativity, I'll try harder tomorrow.
  17. ace1234

    ace1234 A woman simply is, but a man must become.

    Don't blame other people man. You can change your life if you want to. It takes a choice and after you make it it takes will to keep it. Glad you are back on the horse brother. I am on day 4 right now and things are looking up because I have installed filters on my laptop. I gave away my password ;)
  18. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Perspective I guess. Such a large chunk of my life has been spent devoid of enjoyment or satisfaction, I'm afraid I don't know how to feel any other way now. I want to regain that sense of empowerment. I feel what I struggle with is translating that choice into action because I don't know how. Especially hard to do when you're an unemployed bum living off your parents spending large periods of time in isolation. Thanks for your input though, I'm trying bud. All the best with your reboot.

    Didn't post yesterday because I forgot to. So...

    Day 1 recap

    Felt okay in the morning but ended up having the worst day yet. Spent a good two hours crying myself to sleep at night. Over the last week, I've been nursing some suicidal thoughts here and there which got pretty bad last night. The fact that I found some comfort in it made me feel even worse. I'd rather not dwell on that longer.

    Energy: 9
    Mood: 0
    PMO urges: 0

    Day 2 recap

    I'm tempted to enter yet another account of how my hopelessness led me to another negative conclusion about myself but I'd rather not. I felt depressed in pockets today. Woke up at 9AM but felt I didn't really have a reason to get out of bed so I went on till about 1PM. Group work out in the evening. Not much to report. Drowning in my own frustration and anger but I'm offering some mental resistance to the overwhelming thoughts that consumed me last night.

    Anyway, regardless, I'm committed to my current reboot. I tried getting off the laptop and reading a book on history but I couldn't focus and stopped after a few minutes. I kept shuttling in between different activities like playing a computer game, watching youtube videos, playing the guitar, but just couldn't maintain my attention span for more than a few minutes. Can't enjoy these things at the moment. Feels like I'm frantically seeking something to make me feel better. INSTANT GRATIFICATION MODE. Thanks, porn.

    All the best with your reboots.

    Energy: 8
    Mood: 2
    PMO urges: 0
  19. ace1234

    ace1234 A woman simply is, but a man must become.

    Just know that I am in a very similar situation as you. I have been living off unemployment and help from friends who have kept my head up. Just know that the suicidal thoughts will pass and that they will get much quieter. It is already day 6 and I have hardly even heard them speak despite sabotaging a relationship with a beautiful girl. Lots of "what if's" but I know the future holds lots of new and better opportunities. Hang in there and try to occupy yourself with something productive like cleaning the house which is what I sometimes do. Also, if you find yourself watching Youtube or wasting time at least be on YBOP and waste time reading why your addiciton is so bad. What motivates me is other people's success!

    I hope this helps.
  20. TrainingTheDragon

    TrainingTheDragon New Member

    Hey, thanks for the encouraging post. I think the only reason I'm trying the reboot is because it feels like the only aspect of my life I can control at the moment. Like MAYBE things will improve if I manage to stick with it. MAYBE a real successful reboot will lift a veil from my eyes. It does feel like a trap at times because I'm not in a place where it's easy to meet women by any means. Even if I had the money to go out. Dating isn't a thing here. It's a very conservative society (no PDA even) and I live with my conservative parents so I wouldn't even be able to bring any girls home. So when the urges get strong I guess the "What's the point" argument wins over every time. Another dead end train of thought.

    Interesting though, I use the "I can't meet women" card to feel low but I KNOW that a girlfriend or sex won't solve my problems. I've experienced what happens when I believe that. I'm getting so frustrated at the absolute lack of anything in my life and the truth is, if I had a girl, I'd complain about not having a job... if I got that, I'd eventually get pissed off about being stuck in this shithole corner of the world and so on. There's probably a list of about a hundred things I use to keep myself down so getting any of that wouldn't make me happy. Classic addict thinking pattern. I think. Well, maybe it's how most of the unhappy world thinks.

    The real question is how does one find an intrinsic sense of contentment? How can I find it in my life? I don't know and until I do I'll just have to deal with unhappiness and frustration. I'm sure the answer doesn't lie in watching the clock tick as I drown in misery but whatever.

    I'm sorry to hear that you're going through a similar rough time as well, I'll read your journal after this.

    Day 3 and 4 recap:

    Pretty much sleeping the whole day so I don't have to deal with sitting awake. I'm feeling numb emotionally. I feel lousy and angry when I see other people being happy. Especially the people I graduated with. We all went to the same college but they're elsewhere expanding their horizon while I'm back to where I was in high school. I can't enjoy what I watch either because I find myself screaming "SHIT DOESN'T WORK OUT LIKE THAT". It's actually pretty hard for me to do anything because I just connect every little thing with something that's missing in my life so I prefer just sleeping when I can.

    I felt quite horny today which made me angry because of the lack of foreseeable sex. It later turned into PMO urges but I didn't act on them. I'd like to see if sticking to the reboot helps me feel any better.

    Energy: 6
    Mood: 2
    PMO urges: 5

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