My way to Liberty

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Libertad, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    A video that came out from Mark Queppet on the 14.10.2022 about Willpower goes into the dilema I discribed two weeks ago. With following like a slave the to do lists and so called healthier habits but feeling like a hamster in a wheel after a while.

    In short, the rational mind can become like the voice of guilt or like the voice of our parents which wants to constantly push us and dictate our actions in life and he offers the thought, that we could flip this hirarchy and see it as a tool who simply offers possibilities and alternatives and that we don´t have to let it dictate our whole life. Because if we deny and push with our rational mind always against our emotions, in the end we could become like robots and the life force and motivation would deminish.
    Very interesting. Because with PMO we tried to avoid pain and seek pleasure. When replacing PMO with healthier habits, but still using them to escape pain without finding a way to resolve the underlying stressors, it will lead to what he mentioned, a constant fight within us of the rational mind against the emotional mind. Over the long term, the danger of a relapse would increase.

    Maybe it is time to reinhabit your life again.

    Heard the above quote a few days ago in a video and want to reflect on it.

    I like such short remarkable quotes.
    I forgot so much from the books I read when I was young because I did not look out for the essence. Now I find it way more usefull to find one point from a book or a two hour podcast that is important to me and my situation and concentrate on it and take action instead of wanting to remember all of it.
    path-forward and Saville like this.
  2. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    The voice of our parents is the voice of the world. It is full of shoulds and don'ts. Our parents are/were just mouth pieces for something greater that they didn't understand. It's why art, in all its manifestations, is so important to us. We need dissidents that color outside the lines and show us that there is a much wider world.

    In many ways we are trapped by symbols. Yesterday I saw a moth at rest on a wall. My first thought was that it looked like a crucifix. Next I thought it looked like the letter t. I didn't see the moth, I saw a symbol. We can never unravel all these things, we are just too indoctrinated, but with art we stand a chance to fleetingly see something that changes the narrative.
    Libertad likes this.
  3. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thanks Saville, for me it seems to be more meditation, journaling and a walk in the "art" of nature which opens my mind and allows me to see. I can appreciate works of Richard Wagner, for example, but I seem not really to have the taste or mind or spirit for paintings or sculptures. But a poem here and there, like the following poem I posted a few months back, touches me.

    Rudyard Kipling - 1865-1936

    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with triumph and disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools;

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with kings—nor lose the common touch;
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run—
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

    Not sure what else you meant with art.
    Boxer17, Rudolf Geyse and Mozenjo like this.
  4. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I love that poem. It's one poem that I have memorized, as it was assigned to me in high school. By art I meant all the arts where individuals are in pursuit of something greater than themselves. When people color outside the lines they show us what's possible, because of course the lines we color in are a construct of culture, which is just a nice word, in some instances, at least, for oppression. ha ha

    When we go beyond we move beyond our golden prison in an affirmative way we become dissidents, the kind of dissidents who say "hey, have you ever thought life might also be this?"

    Paintings and sculpture never used to turn me on, either, until I went to the Metropolitan Museum in NYC by myself and just wandered around. I'd been to lots of museums before and they always left me feeling tired, especially The Louvre in Paris. But, this day I decided I was just going to check out no more than 10 paintings. They had an El Greco exhibit and so I started there. I knew who El Greco was by name, but I wasn't really familiar with his paintings. I went into the room with his paintings and sort of said "fuck you, El Greco. What have you got for me?" My expectations were zero. Soon the vivid colors on the canvases left me dumbfounded. I only looked at ten, I left, and then had one of the best days of my life. I went for a coffee, walked around Central Park, and thought about those bloody paintings continually. I have had numerous encounters now with other painters/paintings and they have changed how I look at life. But art doesn't have to highbrow. As long as boundaries are being pushed it can do wonders for a society. Let's face it, busy people running around being useful have ruined the planet.
  5. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    A few thoughts and conclusions of myself and others of what I read and heard over the last few weeks on the internet.

    We are taught and it coincides with our own nature, that we look for a solution when we are confronted with resistance, problems, pain and in general feelings of discomfort.

    Instead of staying with the problem, sitting with the pain, we run from it towards a so called "solution" in an attemped to solve the problem or escape the pain it causes or the feeling of discomfort.

    Nothing new. We all talked about the root causes for taking our drug of choice.

    A lot of my choices towards so called "solutions" have caused me more harm than good in the long run.

    Why not turn around and stay with the problem for a time or move towards it to get to know it better instead of wanting to escape it?

    The typical approach to a problem is to analyse it, evaluate it and then move towards a solution, but I always approached it with a sense of resentment, I want the Problem to go away, I can´t stand it, I can´t stand what comes up, I don´t like it, thats the only reason why I approach and analyse it or even look at it, because I wanted it to disappear. But what if the pain I feel is the real me who wants to tell me something, but I hate it and am to busy to look for a solution instead of wanting to learn what it can teach me?

    Will I ever get to know myself truly, if I run from what comes up towards a solution?
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  6. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    Great post, Libertad. I can certainly relate. I kick the can down the road all the time when it comes to dealing with difficult issues. And then when I finally settle in to deal with it, it's not nearly the horrible beast I've made it out to be. Even if it is, it gets more horrible if we don't confront it and address the problem.
    path-forward and Libertad like this.
  7. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    No pain, no gain? :)

    I've realized that sometimes what I thought was painful, isn't at all. For instance, I was a habitual liar. I was terrified of telling the truth. After finding this place I stopped all that and it is actually joyous to not have to lie all the time. Of course, some things people don't need to know.
    path-forward, Libertad and Mozenjo like this.
  8. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    Libertad, I wanted to let you know that I really respect what you've done over this last year. I was single for 10 years after my marriage, and never made the kind of progress dealing with my addiction that you have. Whether we're in a relationship or not, the addiction persists. It's our response to it that matters. Your success is an inspiration. Keep posting. I really like reading your thoughts. You're a good person, and whether you remain single or give another relationship a try, the fact that you have proven to us that porn does not have to control us regardless of circumstances speaks volumes.
  9. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thanks Mozenjo and Saville for taking the time.
    I am dealing very heavy with similar realizations and emotions.
    The more I am with myself without numbing the feelings and thoughts with PMO, the clearer I can see the real me or the more I can see my real authentic emotions and thoughts, and it is not always pretty what I see.
    From a very young age I put on a fake persona of a nice guy. But on the inside, I was and still am in parts very judgemental and full of anger.

    As a child I wanted to be as I thought my parents wanted me to be, to be seen and liked and accepted by them.

    So I got more and more away from being myself and got into playing a role to get the approval and acceptance of my parents.

    But this, playing of a fake me, made me resentfull and angry inside and full of shame, because I knew that I was lying to myself and others by playing the nice guy.

    How to deal with this anger which you can´t show on the outside? I suppresed it and one way to keep it at bay and make myself feel better when it got too much was to distract myself with PMO.
    What a mess.

    I am trying to release the stuffed down and suppresed emotions in small dosages with journaling in a privat journal and with meditating to keep functioning. Not sure yet if this is really draining these suppresed and toxic emotions over time and aliviating the emotional ballast I am carrying. But haven´t found another solution then this controlled release of what is coming up.

    Amazingly I feel no need for PMO, when I feel the need for distraction I read a book or watch a few episodes on netflix of some series.
    I read a book from Martin Kihn the other day with the title Asshole, which is really funny and I laught a lot. It is about a guy who thought he was too nice for his own good and decided to do a 180 and even took clases from a teacher for actors to become more of an asshole. Very funny.

    Thats were I am at, at the moment, not that I want to become more of an asshole, lol, but I want to be authentic and true to myself.
    Of course, like you said Saville, some things people don´t need to know.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2023
  10. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I heard of a therapist who recommended that people buy a bounce back clown, the kind you inflate and when you hit it it bounces back up. Along with the clown you get a plastic bat so that you can really whack it. :D Some people make bread as a way of getting out their frustrations.

    However, you're also allowed to be angry sometimes. Last year I told my boss off when he crossed a line. My first impulse was to just let things slide, especially since I was already thinking of retirement. But, I knew, through the work I've done, that I'm allowed to be pissed off and so I let him have it. We (us nice guys) haven't stood up for ourselves and it takes practice. Anger isn't something to be afraid of unless you are going to punch someone in the face.

    We can practice it at a restaurant. If the meal isn't good, or the service, we're allowed to say something. If someone says something that makes you feel diminished, you're allowed to say "that makes me feel uncomfortable." Once we get in the habit of standing up for ourselves a lot of the anger falls away, because we aren't internalizing every event.
    Gil79, Libertad and Mozenjo like this.
  11. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    Good discussion. Anger has been present with me pretty much my whole life. I know it's natural to feel anger sometimes, but the way I handle it is still so reactive, it is often more destructive to my psyche than is healthy. I think the key is to deal with life's frustrations more from a place of awareness of the imperfection of basically everything, and acceptance that things almost never happen exactly the way we want them to. It's not the cosmos punishing us, it's just the way it is.
  12. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Well said.
    A few thoughts on Anger in general:
    I believe Anger is in itself a reactive emotion on something that happened or is happening and dependent on my thoughts about it can create the feeling of anger.

    Like you said, to deal with life´s frustrations.
    For myself, because of being very judgemental, I thought about and judget situations to put them in two categories, just and unjust, and the judgement of injustice about a situation in my life created the feeling of frustration and anger.

    Now there is another choice, I can store it and not express it, and if I do this, I noticed it takes over and poisens my mind for a long time (fake nice guy way) or I can express it in the very moment I am feeling it and stand up for myself.

    For the second option there is another choice to make, express the anger in an immature angry way, basically overreacting or in a mature and calm constructive way express my frustration before it even gets to the full feeling of anger.

    From what you said, I would draw the conclusion that to prevent to even get frustrated or angry, we should be open to whatever happens in life, make plans but being open to the fact that life can take another turn, being in a state of awareness and acceptance to lifes events and preferable not to even judge situations as good or bad but as just the way it is.

    Also what Saville mentioned:
    I agree with that.

    I came to the conclusion a while back, that the reason I became very judgemental from a very young age, was the fact that it makes me feel secure. If I can categories and judge things and people, it gives me a feeling of being secure, because everything around me is in it´s category or box and it gives me a fake feeling of peace and security.
    Peace and feeling secure was something I craved for as a child. A child wants to feel secure.
    On the other hand, a mature and healthy person, can let others be as they are, can accept situations or change of plans without getting frustrated.
    What one finds in himself if he diggs.
    To end on a positive note, I am now open to learn and practive, when before I did not even want to learn and just used PMO to distract myself from the anger and frustration about situations and feelings in my life. On the other hand, I am also ashamed that I only now at this age am learning things that should have probably been learned at a very yound age.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2023
  13. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Better late than never! :)
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