My way to Liberty

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Libertad, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Having said the above, I also realize that listening to others can be hard when we ourselves have not been listened to. Every man here has had a childhood and adulthood where there was no one to hear our hearts. However, through our struggles we can gain empathy, even while we pursue our own journey with rigor.
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  2. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Great point. Thanks. Haven´t thought about that, I was surprised about myself how uncompassionate I could be to others in certain situations over the last few weeks when it comes to excuses and complains.
    I believe also that because I played the so called fake nice guy (which is not really nice but behaves like that on the outside from the book NO MORE MR NICE GUY) for so long, once the fog of PMO lifted for a bit, the pendulum has swung full force to the other side in the first energy increase.
    I have to find a balance or better, become my true self. Not sure how to accelerate this process. Impacience is most likely counterproductive, but the point in my life I am today, is still difficult to accept, after I gambled away so many years with PMO. Not complaining, just saying. Just another point to get to grips with.
    Thanks, Saville for your insides. One easily can feel lost when new things come up.

    To all of you guys here, have a great Easter time.
    Saville likes this.
  3. CleanBootsBaby!

    CleanBootsBaby! Well-Known Member

    You, too, broski!
  4. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Over the last few weeks I noticed, that I became far less tolerant for my own BS and excuses I told myself when not wanting to do something.
    I read in someone elses Journal (I can´t remember which one) around two months ago, that for him using the expression F... it, is way more motivational than positive quotes. I use it now for weeks and it works better than everything else I used before to motivate myself or to confront my own thoughts, which often were BS to protect my ego, things like, it is not your fault.
    When doubtfull thoughts born out of fear, low selfesteem and out of a mindset of avoidance come up, I tell myself F... it or F... this shit and do it anyways.
    Because what I noticed with the thoughts of temptation when it comes to PMO, if I have a discussion with my own thoughts and argue, I could always come up with reasons and ideas why it would not be such a bad idea to do it again. With this expression of F... it, I take the power back and stop the arguing over something that´s not even worth the time and energy and thoughts I would put into it othervise.
    I like such practical simple stuff which I can put into practice immediately to see if it works for me.
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
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  5. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I'm a fan of simple things, as well. I'm sometimes tell myself "come on bitch, get it done!" :D It doesn't feel negative, either. It's just a mental kick in the butt to tell myself: I can do this! And, the wonderful thing is we all can. :)
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  6. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Just a few thoughts and rambling words.
    Why is it going so easy at the moment, with almost no temptation when it comes to PMO?

    I always had problems with accepting myself as long as I can remember, but not only myself, also negative things that happened. It was like as if I did not find or know a way to process them. So I did not want to accept them to not to have to feel them and bring myself in danger which in reality was my ego who felt threatened and felt the need to protect itself, I thought the solution would be to hide inside the comfort zone. At least thats how I see it from todays point of view looking back.
    It was as if I became more and more thirsty for good feelings and resistand and opposed to bad feelings, this made me shrink my comfort zone and made me even more inactive and unable to process the bad ones and so they started to accumulate in the basement of my mind in the form of resentment and anger till it overflew.
    To cope with this overwhelming frustration and feeling of being inadequate, I used P. to numb myself down and to be able to function on the outside while getting more and more angry and sad on the inside.
    Around 1,5 years ago,
    I made an excel sheet and used it to track my diet and one day I started to track my relapses with PMO also, on the same journal as I used for my diet.
    I still hated each relapse and at the end of each month when I added them up, I felt a strong resistance and disgust, that I relapsed so many times that month.
    Seing the results black on white, the number of relapses, there is no hiding or just continue to letting the years pass by while relapsing, something had to give.
    I believe that was one reason why I finally accepted that I was unable to change myself, that I felt helpless and weak when it comes to PMO, because I was confronted with my actions, these were tangibile events in the form of numbers in front of me.

    The conclusion was, even if it was not as clear as now to me back then, that I have to accept that I can´t change myself, I had no more excuses left, I was here on this forum, watched countless videos about the topic, tried to stopp so many times, I had to accept the human I am, even when feeling disgusted about myself and my actions. I basically cornered myself into a position were I could no longer continue the same.
    I believe that coming to a point of acceptance with oneself and the life circumstances, no matter were one stands is the bases.
    For me it was not a decission I consciously made, it was more a growing into it.
    I know that I can relapse today or tomorrow and I am not sure how I would handle it, if I could accept it immediately or would go into a depressed state of mind for a few days. I don´t want to find it out, but I hope that in case it happens, that I would still be able to accept my actions and find a way to process them and the feelings that come up and to continue to stand to myself in acceptance.
    I don´t want to appear as if I made the change, because it was was more a change that happened to me. Difficult to explain. And there is still a lot of things in my life that I hope will change.
    I don´t even think anymore that I can change my actions, let alone myself. It was more like being able to see what is and from there my actions started to change.
    It sounds like a contradiction, taking full responsibility for everything I do but not believing that I can change myself or my actions. I am still searching for the truth and for awareness.
    If I had to give advice to myself after a relapse, it would be to do what is hard and not what is easy. One was to honestly track my relapses and evaluate them and add them up each month and to accept them as decissions I made and not resist their existence, acknowledge them and secondly I have a personal journal on paper were I write down whatever comes up, this is one of the hardest things to do for me, to take the time, overcome the inner resistance and sit down and look myself in the eye. I should do it more.
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
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  7. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    I get where you are coming from and it is difficult to articulate. You reminded me of one of the steps in Celebrate Recovery, which I attend most Tuesdays. One of the steps states "We admitted we were powerless over our addictions and compulsive behaviors, that our lives had become unmanageable". I am still unable to quite process how to admit that I am powerless against this stuff yet will still have the ability to live in recovery and establish better coping mechanisms and health over the long term instead of staying stuck in PMO.

    Anyways, after 6 weeks I have experienced a relapse. It's been encouraging that my rebound has been much quicker than earlier in my recovery and I am only more excited to enter another long stage of growth and health. Although I am having urges I have no desire to wallow in more PMO sessions.

    Keep going Libertad!
  8. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    I never attended such meetings but I read the 12 steps people with alcohol problems use online.
    The inspiration to admit to myself that I was incapable to stop with PMO came, when I saw all the relapses in black and white on my excel sheet over a few months and looked at my profile here, and saw that I subscribed to this forum back then around eight years ago, then calculated the decades I already was using PMO before even coming to this forum. It hit me, that even after investing so much time, in reading about this topic and watching videos and putting willpower and effort into the goal and the fight to stop with this shit, that I was not able to stop for longer than a few clean streaks of a few months.
    I could no longer hide from myself the fact that I failed in my goal to stop with this shit. The reality hit me. What I am dealing most with at the moment, is my tendency of avoidance of daily life tasks and responsibilities. Thats were I have to push myself.
    In the end I don´t really know what makes the abstaining from PMO so smooth at the moment but I hope it stays that way.
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
  9. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I wrote about this on Henry's journal. But, you are doing great Lib! You are off PMO and are sorting through many things. The way forward is always simple. Stand up, move one foot and then the other.

    Thinking about stuff is great, but overthinking our daily lives beats us up.
  10. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thanks Saville.
    I think too much, I know. It was mainly because I am afraid of a relapse and in case it happens again, but not knowing or being aware what helped me over the last months to stay away from PMO. Maybe there is no real key, that was usefull in the past and would be usefull for me the next time in case a relapse happens. My mind is still searching for it, but I know it probably would be more usefull to be in the present and concentrate on the now.
    Something interesting:
    A few days ago, Dr. K from the channel healthy gamer made a video and it answered what I was questioning two weeks ago in my last two posts.
    The question for me was:
    Why was the moment when I finally was accepting the fact that I was too weak and unable to stop PMO such a pivotal moment for me.

    The answer which in hindsight I can see now to be true is, because it brought me back to the now.
    Without acceptance, being in the present is almost impossible.

    Before, I was too much in the past and full of shame or in the future and worried, all in my thoughts.

    And I didn´t even want to be in the present, because without accepting the fact, that I was unable to stop PMO, I was not able to endure the discrepancy between the point were I was and all the pressure I put on myself to be at a different point were I thought I needed to be.
    Thats why it was extremly liberating to me to be able to accept my incapability of stoping PMO.

    Maybe this is not a great revelation for others, but for me this was eye opening.

    Dr.K. also mentioned the danger, of going into a state of inactivity when accepting ones weaknesses, but from my own experience, the acceptance of what is, freed up energy to overcome at least some of my procrastination tendencies.

    Overall the pressure inside myself, to not to be in the present moment, became smaller after accepting what is.
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  11. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I think that revelation is HUGE! In a way, we keep trying to fix the past and then this keeps us stuck there. By accepting that the old us is too weak to stop is acknowledging that we can now go in a different direction. I love it!

    Thanks for the inspiration this morning. :)
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  12. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Not much to write about. Just a few thoughts.
    I read the following post from badger a few days ago, Fear: Face Everything and Recover.
    I already was doing something similar, but to have it put in such an amazing short form, helps me to be more aware in my daily life of this, because it is so impressive to express the reason and the solution in this form.

    FEAR: Fuck Everything And Run or

    FEAR: Face Everything And Recover.

    So thanks badger for posting this.
    Something controversal which I am still not sure is: If I am even able to make a decission.
    Of course one would think that we do. But do we really? Why would we need years or even be unable in some cases for decades to change our behaviour even that we know that it is bad and harmfull for us?
    I leave the question open for myself for now if I am really in control of my life and my decissions.
    The point I reached for now in my understanding is, that observing, becoming aware of my behaviour, seems enough that things start changing. Becoming conscious seems enough that things, that are fake or a defense mechanism acquiert because of Trauma in the past, start to deminish or fall of.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  13. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    @badger @Libertad Yeah, man. For me it was : ESCAPE or ENGAGE? As men we are built to Engage with the challenges we face, that is the pathway to thriving. Choosing to Escape constantly (thru P or any other diversion) is what keeps us small and in chains for years, as long as we let this behaviour go on.

    Through a repetitive practise of Escaping repeatedly, that becomes our learned behaviour, our default, and that is what we constantly click back to. But those neural pathways can be reprogrammed if we are intentional about it. The best way I see to do this is 1) lots of journalling about why we know there are better choices to be made. You can't keep writing out what the better path is, day in and day out, without your brain slowly waking up and making better choices in the moment. This includes reasoning for yourself why it's better to avoid Escaping (which I believe needs a spiritual anchor as well - I have come to see nothing breaks the power of this thing like Christ); and 2) blockers, blockers, blockers. Without something to interrupt the normal knee-jerk response in the moment we will keep going back to the same response without thinking about it.
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  14. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I love that!

    This is the million dollar question. But, of course we can make decisions. In our pasts we had our decisions made for us and, as RG says, it takes time to get use to flexing this muscle. When we've spent decades being passive it isn't easy to change that pattern. But, recognition is the first step, a step you've already taken. :)
  15. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    There is a saying about this:
    You are not separated from your goals by a number of years, you are speparated from them by a number of actions! (Douglas Kruger)´

    Maybe I am just lazy:( and the resistence I have to a lot of actions and when I try to push myself is some sort of protection, because if I would give all I have without any excuses, if I fail then, my ego would be devastated.:eek:
    I just think, it feels like that the connection to myself is not fully there yet, maybe because of long term PMO use, so actions that I take seem often wrong afterwards. When it comes to PMO I have absolutely no doubt, that it is wrong and harmful and that the right thing is to stay away from everything that has anything to do with it, like MO, P, sexy pictures and all that. I wish I had the same clarity for other things in life.

    When it comes to daily actions, I am full of doubt about what is the right thing to do. I don´t trust myself at all when it comes to these things.
    Take the financial site, for example, I started to follow Dave Ramseys baby steps around 5 years ago, because they gave me structure and are simple to follow. It helped me tremendously and I follow them religiously and it took the stress away from the financial standpoint. And I am ok with the fact that without using any debt any more, I am most likely missing out on some ROI.

    I wish there was some sort of similar simple program for life out there that one could follow. On one hand I want to be free, on the other hand I would like to follow some simple plan for my life. Does this mean that I am a follower and beta male? Probably. :mad:
    Just rambling. Sorry. Nothing wise to say today.o_O

    I came to another saying on youtube:

    Research is done by doing. (Noah Kagan)

    I started to gather ideas for small possible steps to take and try out in 5 categories of life, to hopefully take more actions in a more playfull manner, so that I don´t overthink everything and stay stuck in my comfort zone. Will see how it goes.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
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  16. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Lib, you could be writing my life story. I can tell you that you are not lazy. You are a contemplative. You like to think and look at the world around you. There are enough busy people in this world.

    This is a common theme, my friend. I have found the less I think about the little things the easier I feel in my own mind. Ruminate on the big things, but just let simple action take care of the small stuff. It's also ok to make a mistake. :) I still struggle with these things, myself, but each year feels better than the last. We are all works in progress.

    I don't really subscribe to labels, anymore. Sometimes we need to be more alpha, sometimes more beta. The modern world has created these terms, but as you know there is much more nuance to life than that.
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  17. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    If you fight for your limitations (Excuses) you get to keep them.

    Looking back, I often fought hard for my limitations, I wanted to have them acknowledged, that they were the reason for my shortcomings and inadequacies.
    For a long time I did not even want to change because then I would not be able to use whatever happened to me or whatever I went through in the past as a reason for why I was not further ahead.

    It is really hard to even accept it fully now what I did in the past with my time and energy, that instead of putting the energy in something positive, I fought for my limitations (Excuses) for so long and because of that I got to keep them for so long too.

    Life is really interesting how it goes in retrospect.
    I am amazed and glad that I can see it now.
  18. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    Thank you for sharing this insight. It's a circular and destructive track of thinking that I fall into as well
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  19. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    So true. I always used the excuse that I was tired. And, it's true, I was tired, or rather, am tired a lot of the time. But, I'm not tired in the morning and I can get quite a bit done until 1pm. Knowing that means I have quite a few hours where I can be productive. I also had the excuse that I didn't have the discipline to accomplish certain things that I secretly wished I could. I've proven this to be bullshit, over and over, but I still have the fear that I'm lazy.

    Great insight, Lib!
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  20. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Saville and @realness .
    It is so comforting and easy to just find reasons and believes why not to do anything. The limitations (Excuses) are like lies we hold on to, because they give almost a kind of stability for our identity and to protect the ego. Without them we would have to really see what is. Reality.
    This could be one leverage point to look into, also for our point here, PMO.
    What limitations (Excuses) do I use and believe, that are just that, Excuses or others that are outdated and not true any more now as an adult. I fought for a few, because they gave me a false sense of identity and security and a comfort zone and most likely I still do for some that I am not aware of.

    In your example, Saville, one could ask, are you really tired in the afternoon, or are you just tired for doing certain things and not others. Lets say a friend called and asked to go fishing or something you like, probably all out of a suthen, maybe you are totally fit and awake and full of energy after 1pm. Just saying.

    Thinking about it, if I would give up and stop fighting for my limitations (Excuses) one reason why it is hard to give it up is, the feeling of regret that I had to face then. Without my lmitations (Excuses), the ego would no longer be protected from reality. How would that look like, to live without excuses? We would have to look at the real reasons why we act and do what we do or don´t do.
    We could make a point, that excuses, like P are a comforting thing, to not to look at the real reasons.
    In my case now, not to use limitations and excuses any more would mean that I had to take risks that I will admit here, I am simply afraid to. And to not to have to admit and face the real reasons, because they are not flattering to my ego, I covered the tracks by using excuses as reasons why I did not make the move. The same viscious cicle of not wanting to face reality that led a lot of us into P use.

    A real honest look at the reasons we have when it comes to our behaviour.

    For some things I don´t even come up with excuses because I already know that they would be just that, made up reasons, but despite of not using excuses, I still often don´t do it, like for example meditation. I have no excuse, let alone a valid reason for not doing it daily. But I still have days were I don´t do it. What a mess. LOL

    I don´t even know were I wanted to go with this.

    Just rambling. :)
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2022
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