My way to Liberty

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Libertad, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much for this post. This clearly is the obstacle I am facing right now. You became wise, Saville and I would call you Buddha if you hadn´t lost so much weight lastly. LOL:D
    Thanks again for taking so much time to respond.

    My thoughts are not facts and I should not trust them blindly.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  2. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    The transition from an instant gratification emotional management system to an effort based emotional management system.
    Saw this quote in a video. I am taking small steps of action and it gives me a calm feeling and satisfaction, even that they are only small things I accomplish.
    Saville and TrueSelf like this.
  3. TrueSelf

    TrueSelf Active Member

    Sounds like you are headed in a good direction!
  4. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    @TrueSelf thanks.

    Things are going.
    I am amazed that I am accepting more and more what is. I can accept more and more that I am who I am at the moment. Even the things I did not like and hated in the past, I can see them without the urge to run from them or distract myself to not to have to be aware of them, at least not with PMO, sometimes I catch myself watching a movie or something out of the urge to distract myself.
    Also the realisation that I have a lot of painfull attachments, even the ones with good intentions like thinking, this habbit of mine is bad and I should do or be this instead.
    I accept that I have flaws, probably a lot of them, maybe more then most others, who knows. Also I find out more and more, that I am not the nice guy or good guy I always thought or wanted to be or thougth I needed to be or felt the pressure from the outside and thought I needed to conform and listen to what others wanted me to be like. Like the saying I always hated, what would Jesus do. Like as if we ourself can change or even know what he would do in a specific situation. It sounds holy, but I think that it is the ego who wants to feel important or holier than others who is speaking there. (I know that I am still judgemental LOL)

    During the last six weeks I took a few steps into reversing the outsourcing of life, like they called it in the video from Dave Ramsey I posted a few weeks back.
    I like watching sailing channels on YT, so for a long time I thought to do something in this direction, maybe even buy a old boat later on, and six weeks ago I decided to apply and study for the exam to take a practice and theoretical exam for a license, which is required by law in the country I am currentely living in to drive motor boats and sailboats with engines of more then 15 HP on rivers and the 3mile zone on the ocean near the coast. Not sure if I will ever cross an ocean on a boat or even buy my own sailboat, and I had a lot of doubts to come out of my comfort zone and study with much younger people then me in a school like environment and take the practical and theoretical exam to get the license, but I learned a lot about myself and the money spend was well worth it alone for the reason that I started doing something for myself and I even started to enjoy the driving of the motorboat for the eight hours of practical exercise and during the exam. We had beautiful weather here the last couple of weeks. Coming out of my comfort zone, taking action instead of passively watching the years of my life passing by while jerking of.
    It cost me effort, to take action, the drive to the school alone was like 1,5hours one way, than sitting there in between mostly younger people and trying to learn the new terms and calculating navigation courses was way outside of what I was comfortable during the last decade. It may seem only small to most people, for me it cost me a lot of hessitation and anxiety to overcome to make this decission and take the risk of being humiliated in front of others. And the funny thing is, that I start to be ok with what things are to me and I am ok with what things are or appear to others when it comes to me. I don´t need to appear as if I know it all or that I am perfect. I don´t need to compare myself with others. Who cares. A big sign that something inside myself is healing is for me, that I am no longer obsessed with my PMO counter or number of days for the last year or so. During the decade before the last year I was obsessed with my counter, I felt down if the numbers were low or I had to reset it and I even often opened the site to take a look at my counter to feel proud if the numbers were up. (Sounds stupid I know) A few weeks ago, I thought about in which month I was without PMO and I could not tell without taking a look at my last post. I am not better or worse than others, who are we to judge? Everyone has to learn what he has to learn, I am for sure not the brightest candle on the cake. After almost thirty years of trying to escape my inner self with PMO, there is no time to waste on lying to myself. I am who I am at the moment, who knows what tomorrow will bring? No one.
    I was and am still in big parts a very judgemental person against others and mainly against myself. Which causes still a lot of pain to myself. What I am more and more is being honest to myself. If we hate things about ourselfes, and want to change because we don´t accept them about ourselfs, we stay stuck and in our own prison in my experience.
    Awareness and brutal honesty against myself, and acceptance of what is and comes up from the inside, appears to me more and more the key to allowing things to change.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  5. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Great post, Libertad! A lot of truly amazing things happening inside your head. I can feel the strength you now have and it's remarkable. Great work!
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  6. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    Awesome post indeed! I found it really recognizable of what I have been doing and also struggling with over the last couple of years. These are important steps. Loved reading that:)
    Libertad likes this.
  7. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Just a few thoughts:
    Pain is a great way to learn.
    My inner child or whatever one wants to call the real self, wanted to communicate with me over decades with the voice of pain and I ran in the other direction with PMO instead of feeling it, becoming aware of it and why it was there.
    Not always, but often I almost welcome it now, because pain gives me a hint of something I have to see, feel and become aware of and learn what is there to learn from it. I try to confront it as best as I can, instead of running from it with PMO, like I did in the past. I want to see what it is about. What can I learn? What do I have to learn to become whole again?
    I believe that if we can welcome both, joy and pain without resisting them, there would not be any more urge to escape what is and comes up in ourself. Just a dream? Unrealistic? Maybe. Just rambling.
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  8. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    The energy I put into escaping reality in the past, should go into changing my circumstances of life into a life that I don´t want to escape any more.

    Seems so logical and simple. But there are many questions. Do I actually know what is good and the right life for me? The tendency of overthinking to not to have to start is strong in me.

    So, get to know yourself first. (Meditation, trying different things to see if something resonates and makes sense long term, getting to know different people)
    I avoided all that in the past.
    Avoidence was my main coping mechanism in the past.

    I can´t change myself, but as I become more aware and I have the motivation and energy to take calculated risks, my thinking and being will change.
    So as many here said, actions are needed. I have to take conscious actions while also becoming more outcome independant. To see mistakes less as a failure then more as a learning experience.
    In theory that would be it, my way forward.
    Practically I would say that I still hold myself back or am too coward for a lot of things. Small steps.

    I am very late to the game of life. I went the other way for a long time.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
  9. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    I have to keep aware, that changes outside are not equivalent to the change that needs to happen inside.

    I noticed that I became sloopy with things like meditation and journaling and every time I do do it, I have a great resistance to sit down and do it.

    I have the tendency to change something on the outside, like my diet, exercise etc. and than stopping the work on the inside, like working on awareness with meditation, journaling and getting conscious.

    To change things on the outside are way easier for me to change than to keep at the mental and spiritual things. I am anxious of change on the inside because I can´t let go of the need of the feeling of being in control. Changes on the inside, can go anywhere, I don´t know were consciousness will lead me, changes on the outside seem to be in my control, I can plan what I want to do or change.

    I think this is the obstacle for me why I have a hard time to stay on track with things like meditation and journaling.
    Mozenjo likes this.
  10. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    It's so true. With outward changes we feel we have control. But I think both inner and outer work together. Our outward efforts help calm us internally and give us space to tackle the harder inner stuff. I also find it hard to delve into the inner realms. There are no easy answer when we look at our lives and our habits. It's one reason I like to walk. I use walking as my meditation. I find it easier to meditate while I'm moving, which may not be true meditation, I guess.

    I like to think that even though we can never know where our consciousness will go, it already knows its destination, in the way that a river eventually finds its way to the sea. I know that as an answer that just scrapes the surface. I guess the question is: how do we keep on track doing the good things when a part of us doesn't want to make the effort? At least, that's my question. But, effort has to made, because recovery is all about movement. My sore knees feel better when I cycle and my mind feels better when I turn the inner-wheels.
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  11. Mozenjo

    Mozenjo Well-Known Member

    I've tried a few books on zen and meditation, and have come away from all of them feeling a sense of calm at the words and message, but also some frustration at what seems like a futile endeavor. Kind of like the famous koan, "listen to the sound of one hand clapping". Sure. I can do that. Maybe a thousand years from now :p Our western minds are still human minds, though, so there's hope. But one of them (I think it was Thich Nhat Hanh's "The Miracle of Mindfulness") talks about how, eventually, everything you do is meditation. You can certainly be in motion, since it's your whole state of being. Eckhart Tolle talks about this too.
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  12. True Change

    True Change Active Member

    'Growing pains' are real. To avoid pain is to avoid growth.

    Childbirth is the most intense pain on Earth, yet it creates life.
  13. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Yes. I totally agree with that.

    But not so much with that. I believe there is way more intense pain on earth than childbirth (of course I have never experienced the pain of giving birth, I am a man), and it also does not create life. Life is created when the sperm enters the egg or something like that. I only insist on clarifying it, because a lot of women from the woke, feminist mobb movement say this with pride in their voices that they create life, and use this to feel special and superior over men, but that is not true.
    The best most simple explanation I heard was from JLP who said: The women is simply the oven, the man puts the bread in the oven, the women bakes it for 9 months and than it comes out of the oven when it is ready. Simple but true.

    Not that it matters much in this context, but I started to hold women accountable, one of them already stopped contacting me. LOL. I did not really care because looking at the relationsship with her from were I am now, she only used me to call and complain and whine about her life and I am not willing to continue such a realtionship with any one.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
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  14. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    I feel often like a lost puppy. The right way, were is it? Is there one for me?

    With the PMO route I clearly took the wrong turn for decades, but now, which is the right one for me?
    Of course away from PMO, but that is not enough.
    I really have difficulty to connect with myself, to be me.
    I was about to bid on a boat, a live aboard one with everything in it to live comfortable and I was looking at the bidding, had my offer already typed in, money I can afford, and would have gotten it, because the price did not change over the last few minutes, but I did not press enter. I waited till the time ran out and the boat was sold to someone else.
    Now I am sitting here and feel like a coward. Why am I so afraid to live life? I am afraid to make more mistakes in my life, but living should not be about avoiding mistakes.
    The process of making decissions in the past was often the way of waiting till the circumstances and people pressured me into one direction and I had to take it because the other options faded because I let the right time pass by by sitting it out. Not a good way to make life decissions, I know. The habbit of avoiding, like with PMO which I used to avoid to face life difficulties.

    In the past when things got tough, I went to PMO to find relieve from the stress which I often created for myself with overthinking everything negatively.
    Thoughts like: this was the one occasion you had and you blew it. Nothing helpfull. My self talk was always very negative.

    At least I am more aware now of what is going on in myself, to end this post with something uplifting and positive. Ha
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
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  15. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Don't beat yourself up. Honestly, this might have not been the right fit for you. Caution is not cowardice, my friend. There will be other opportunities and now you have the experience of what such deal means. Every day we learn a little something.
  16. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Hi Saville,
    I hope you know, how gratefull I am for you being here on this forum. You trully have a gift and talent at saying the right things at the right time. I admit that sometimes I felt jealous, because I wished I would have the same talent.
    I really want to thank you and I hope that by some higher power you get compensated for all the effort you put in here, in helping others.
    The often harsh truth is needed, but also the uplifting and motivational comments need to be said and you have a way to do both at the right moments.

    I view you as a man who genuinelly wants to help others without stroking his own ego. That is rare.
    I hope you have a great day and life my friend!
  17. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    @Libertad @Saville hear, hear. Keep up the good work. It is a talent, I'm not always sure when someone needs encouragement and when they actually need a kick up the pants. (Heck I don't even know when I need these things.) I guess we need to do our best to discern it in each situation. And yes, keeping a real humility, these skills are valuable.
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  18. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the kind words, Libertad. I wish you a great life too!

    I have actually been quite moved and amazed by you and many of the other men here. I sometimes read a post and think, "Oh, they really nailed that!" The collective wisdom here is quite incredible. We, as men, are incredible! :)

    I'm still not sure, either. I just go with my instinct. I do less pants-kicking now than at the beginning. Like all new converts I was overzealous when I first found these pages.
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  19. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    What I noticed over the last few days about myself is, that I became very intolerant and almost harsh against excuses and I have to find a way to balance this view out when it comes to others.
    I can see clearly were I used excuses to not to have to deal with life but the clearity also is there when talking with others and seing their excuses and useless complains about life.
    When it comes to my life, the no BS approach is what I need, because for too long I blamed others and the circumstances for my inadequacies.
    But I have to be carefull to not think, that I have to point it out too much, when I notice the excuses others use, to stay in their comfort zone, to not to loose too many of my contacts.
    Especially women seem to prefer to be listened to, instead of getting a solution for their complains. But I find it very hard to hold back and to have the patience and understanding for long conversations, with people who simply want to complain but not change.

    I have to find the right balance to draw the line to other people and understand that it is their journey and that pointing out their weaknesses or useless excuses, may not be the way to help them.
    Saville likes this.
  20. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Listening is a skill we must work at, especially when we have experienced revelations for ourselves. As you point out, we must meet people where they're at and not impose our own viewpoint or dogma. I think there are enough experts out there, but not enough friends willing to lend a listening ear. I believe all seekers will eventually work things out for themselves.
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