My way to Liberty

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Libertad, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thanks for taking the time, LTE.

    I can relay what you said about the counter, many times before the flatline I was looking at it when the urges came, I said to myself I will not do PMO because I want not start from zero again. And now, I´m a little bit proud of myself for making it so far, even I know that I can relapse maybe today or tomorrow.

    My thought was to change my focus from no PMO to things that maybe give me a bit joy.

    I want to start to enjoy life, but my thinking about joy is still havily conected with P=pleasure, even that I know that it´s followed by depression, and very bad feelings about me and my life in general for several days. In the only relationship I had I was using the women, I liked her as a person too, but only as a friend, liked to have conversations with her and to spent time together, but when it comes to sex I was using her like my right hand.
    So when I think about enjoying the rest of my life, btw. I´m 40, than I also think about having sex. I don´t want to live like a monk till the end of my days. But I cant separate the joy in my thoughts from the pleasure witch I had doing PMO. It´s like enjoying something has become bad for me.

    In one way I want to never PMO again, in the other I want sex, joy and pleasure. But when I´m seeking for joy I feel really bad like after PMO because I than see myself as selfish and bad. I think everybody is seeking to have joy and pleasure in our lifes.
    It´s like my memory of the pleasure of PMO it´s far more real and bigger than the memory, witch I don´t have, about the feelings and pleasure being a grown men without a addiction to PMO sharing the intimacy with a partner enjoying each other, witch I never have come to know this feelings even in the relationship I had. When it comes to other things, like self confidence, energy or motivation I can clearly see now the advantage of no PMO.
    I dont know if all this make sence. I´m still trying to find it out and explaining my own feelings to myself. :-\
  2. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    In many ways, we are in much the same place. Life certainly is about more than not masturbating and I want to enjoy all that life offers. All I can say is that things will continue to improve. I've made progress in many areas of life in this last year and I'm ready for the next step.
  3. Caoimhín

    Caoimhín Winter's coming...

    I am trying to remind myself that it will take a very long time for my brain to change the way I process "women", "sex", and "pleasure". For most of my life, I have been in a fucked up vision of these things and for my brain to rewire, it will take lots of time. I already see a great improvement, but I think that it will really take lots of time before I rid my thinking process of these things. But as time goes on, I think that new and healthier ways of thinking about women, sex, and pleasure are building themselves in my head.

    At this point, try and not pannick about not having sex and not having a woman. Focus on letting the porn-induced fog to lift from your brain. This may take a long time but you will have to re-learn what a woman is, what sex is, what is pleasure. Because none of it is like what we were getting from the porn. What you are fearing about not having is a porn-fueled image.
  4. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Thanks Caoimhín for your answer.
    I also hope that as time goes by that it will work like a healing process.

    I just read the following post from SteveA
    Thats the main reason for me for my addiction to PMO. This feelings, witch you discribed SteveA, have been allways there as long as I can think back I never felt like my parents really cared about me and later on, when other people showed interest in me, I didn´t believe them any more.
    After more then 2 months without PMO this hasnt changed and I still feel, that this is the main root for my addiction.

    But in my case it´s not a solution of looking for a girlfriend to have somebody to love and being loved, it´s more that I first need a inner change in my way to think about myself and others. I hope that the abstinence from PMO will give me the energy and motivation to really change from within. I´m not there yet, but at least I feel that I not diverge further more from this goal like I was doing with PMO. Hopefully the time factor will help to get me there.
  5. Caoimhín

    Caoimhín Winter's coming...

    I understand what you are saying here and basically fall into the same category. It is not just changing my actions (PMO) it is changing inside that needs to happen. When I can write, as I did above: "do not pannick", it was also for me to remind myself that this change is slow. When the wave of pannick, fear, loniness, etc. catches in my throat, I feel that I can't breathe and that all is overwhelming. When I'm like this, I just need to lose myself in something. This is when we need to repeat: change is slow.

    But one thing I am learning: as much as I would like a woman to be able to share my life, experiences, and troubles with, I know that I have not been and probably would not be a good partner to them. My mind is still too caught up inside itself. This is an artefact of PMO and other escapismes that drive you away from the real world and into the fantasy world. I am not looking for a girlfriend right now but I'm looking inward.
  6. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Many thanks for these words, Caoimhín, it means a lot. I liked what you said about not looking for a girlfriend right now but looking inward.

    I don´t want to interrupt the conversation on your journal about the meditation, so I write it here.
    The following is a link to a success story witch shows that the process of changing the thoughts could take really a long time but thats woth it.
    The guy seems to be very lucky that he found out the negative effects of PMO in such a young age and was brave enough to not follow the herd.
  7. Caoimhín

    Caoimhín Winter's coming...

    Libertad: you are closing in on your target. Have you given any thoughts to what your goal will be in the next stage of your reboot. It might be good to start thinking about a plan or identify things you want to achieve. In fact, it's a good idea for me too.
  8. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Libertad, I just want to say once again...when you come out of this flatline, and you will, you're libido is going to be massive. At least that was my experience.

    Do WHATEVER you have to do to stay clean when that hits you. I find exercise and calling people works best for me. Pick up the phone, don't be alone with your thoughts. Go out to a coffee shop...get the F out and way from the computer.

    The reason I'm telling you all of this is that when I relapsed I started to slip down the tubes and the addiction took hold of me again. Not as bad as before the reboot, but I was lighting up those porn pathways like crazy. And, I lost a ton of progress.

    Gary says that he doesn't know exactly how much progress binging will erase. And, I don't know either, but I do know that relapsing for me has always thrown me way backwards.

    However, the good thing about getting back on track is that now, my chances of relapsing are much smaller; I've built up my wall, built my "don't look at porn or masturbate" muscles. And they are quite strong now. Every single day you recover those mental muscles grow stronger and stronger, even if you don't feel it yet. It's quite exciting.

    You're doing awesome!
  9. xstar

    xstar New Member

    Libertad...good to see you're doing well. I've enjoyed your posts here and the thoughts written by others.

    FWIW, I agree with 40New30: flatline is when things are easy (though it can be a distressing time) and the return of libido can mark the return of urges. For me, it comes as part of the "chaser" effect. When I went 2.5 months without orgasm, my libido died off almost completely. Once I allowed orgasm, it came roaring back and urges (primarily to M...not so much to view P) have also returned.
  10. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Many thanks Caoimhín, 40New30 and xstar for taking the time and for the concern.
    I´m still in the flatline, but I´m ok with it. I have had a bit MW yesterday, but I dont gave any attention to it, no urges.

    I found another good post from SecretJohn witch I wanted to have here.

    I recognize and identify my own behavior, feelings and thoughts better when I read in other journals and find patterns from myself there. Sometimes I think that I have no deep conection not only to others, also to myself. To my feelings, needs and thoughts. This journal helps me a lot in becoming closer to myself and to the person I´m, without playing a role.

  11. Caoimhín

    Caoimhín Winter's coming...

    I agree. It is really useful to read things that I have not been able to get my thoughts organised around or even been able to come close to putting into words. I am also making a list of books that are being recommended by people because they are also enlightening.
  12. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Sorry if this is boring for someone who is reading my journal, but I see myself in a stadium where something will change and I want to be prepaired. Thats why I copied and pasted two statements, the one from SecretJohn above and the following Success story from lustring.
    I dont agree completly to the story below like the point he makes to not read or write here any more. :-\

  13. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Hi Caoimhín, if you dont mind to post the list here or in your journal, I´m very interested in it. I need to fill the time gap witch PMO left.
  14. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    day 82
    I´m very depressed.
    Its like I´m awakening from my own world and seing the real world with open eyes witch before have been fogged from the drug PMO. And it´s really hard and it´s like facing the world without protection without a possibility to medicate myself.
    It´s not PMO or the urges to O itself witch pushes me in this direction, but the real, hard life, with all the problems, job, money, lonlyness, frustration, anger, sadness. I will not give up to PMO, but I have not found a way to live happy. Yet?
    The last week or so, after reading the post from Underdog I wanted to make plans, goals, a vision for my life, but I cant. I noticed that there is nothing. There is no motivation, no energy and no ideas.
    I don´t even know what I want from life. The decades before my biggest desire was always to stay away from others, to find the best P movie clip and M to it. I often wanted to disappear, leave all behind. Not to start new with motivation in a other place, no, only to not have to deal with the people who know me. I still see myself as a looser, 40 years old, no family, no friends, no house, no big talents, no future. And the worst thing is, that I feel within myself nothing to really change that.

    I know that after 82 days I need to be further, but I´m still here in a state of deep depression. Sometimes in the last weeks I felt a bit more motivation or energy, but it never was enough to really change anything big in my life. I´m still commited to not PMO and I dont think that this will change in the future, put I still havent find my place in this world.
    I have no urges or anything like that to PMO, put I´m at the limit to be able to take the reallity because it seems that I can see it now how it is.
    Sorry for being so negativ, but here is the only place I really want to be totally honest.
    I think the good thing about not PMO for me is, that I can see things now like they are, but this makes it harder than before when I could do PMO, because I have still no clue how to deal with these insights and with the reallity.
  15. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    I suspect that depression is a common foe for many of us here. I have one technique that helps me when I feel depressed. It's very simple, I remind myself that I've felt very bad in the past but gotten better and found happiness. Simply stated, you may feel bad right now, but you won't always feel this way.

    Porn and masturbation are easy ways to elevate dopamine levels so they do serve as medication when you are depressed. The problem is that you are left in worse shape than before once the very temporary effects of PMO wear off. I've been there myself, having spent hours edging and finally having an orgasm only to crave more porn almost instantly. It does not and can not work.

    OTOH, once you are free of PMO your ability to deal with depression improves. The longer you are away from it the better the situation with regard to dopamine receptors. You've already made great stride in this regard. You will improve further as time elapses. No matter what, remember, PMO will not help.
  16. RestartOfLife

    RestartOfLife Member

    Hi Libertad, glad to see you heading towards 90. But you're just sitting and counting the days... Feel free to meet others, they are not better than you, they just had more luck not to make mistakes you made. Try to get outside your comfort zone. I can tell from my own experience how that is important. I was forced to step outside, because my new job was to visit the customers, so instead of sitting in the office with the same guys I had to contact different people. And finally there was a crucial visit to the girl from my story :)... So go to meet anybody who's got the same interests, maybe at the beginning you will not feel comfortable, but it's only a matter of adaptation, and adaptation is a matter of time.
  17. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Deep depression is a common withdrawal symptom, I've gone through it. And, as LTE says many of us used PMO to medicate...I surely did, for years.

    It's not going to feel good in the short term, sorry to say, but it shouldn't last long.

    Your best friends are exercise, meditation, clean diet, socialization (this one especially in the winter), and very keeping busy.

    If you feel like you were medicating depression with PMO you might want to see a P Doc. I'm currently medicated to ease my way through PMO withdrawals and to keep myself motivated, it's working nicely. Who knows I might have had depression all my life, it does run in my family, or it might have been just PMO side effects for 20 years.

    I will try to come off all medications in a year or two, but for now the status quo is working extraordinarily well. And I have obstacles to overcome.
  18. bright_eyes

    bright_eyes Master of My Own Mind?

    I hear you, Libertad, and I salute you for standing up to meet stone cold reality. It is hard. You will have to find a way to make some positive changes. But I've been following you for a long time here, and I am confident you can and will do it. The alternative is too terrible to even consider.
  19. Caoimhín

    Caoimhín Winter's coming...

    Libertad, I took medication for depression and anxiety for several years as well. I just weaned myself off them this past year. There was definitely a time when I needed them and it is something that you should consider. But, I also think it is important that I have come off them because they basically make you numb to real life.

    I copied the following from the book The Shadow Effect (I am translating it into English, so it might not be exactly the same if you are able to read the book). It is described as a process to go through when you are in the middle of a depressive moment, an anxiety crisis, etc.

    I can get through this. This feeling will not last forever.

    I have felt like this before. I was able to get through it before.

    I will not feel better if I unleash myself on something or someone.

    Blame does not resolve anything.

    Acting without thinking causes me regret and guilt.

    Be patient! Just wait a while and you will calm down.

    I am not alone. I can call someone for support.

    As a person, I am more than just the sum of these uncontrollable emotions.
  20. Libertad

    Libertad Well-Known Member

    Hi comrades in the fight,
    I want to thank you all, LTE, ROL, 40N30, BE and Caoimhín for your support, and sorry that I was so negativ yesterday.
    There have been a few things (health issues and others) coming together and it simple overwhelmed me.
    A mix of self-pity, insecurity and fear of the future.
    Even I have a lot to be thankful for, a good job, my siblings and parents who still love me and so on, I need to keep my focus balanced, and not notice only the bad things.
    I started a few months ago to go ones a week to a psychologist, even I know that he listens to me, because he is paid for, I can tell him
    things that I would not tell to other persons except here in these forum. Will see how this pan out.
    About the medication against the depression, maybe if it gets worse, I tried it 5 years ago for six weeks and they made me numb like you said, Caoimhín.
    As long as I can sustain the reality I want to have a clear mind to make the right changes and steps.
    Again thank you all for taking the time to support me in this difficult moments of my life and many thanks for the translated part of the book, Caoimhín, it gives me hope.
    This is really a great community.


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