My Thoughts On Rebooting [EXTREMELY LONG POST]

I think the point is that there must have been previous problems with your life in order for you to become addicted to porn, not that porn is not a cause or not the primary factor contributing to your symptoms. I imagine it's hard to become a porn addict if you're a healthy individual with a happy life. Your brain is queued to use porn whenever faced with emotional distress, so being active and having other ways to deal with stress will naturally reduce your need for porn. PA exacerbates your original problems, so whatever deficiency you likely have that caused you to become a serious porn addict probably still exists. For example, children from divorced or single-parent households are far more likely to become drug addicts than children from two-parent households, so the porn or the drugs may be the immediate cause of the problems you're dealing with, but probably not the original cause.

 

@WoLong

Let me make something clear here.... Not everyone uses porn because their life sucks.

We are in a new day in age where you do not just have your "classic" addict that has a history of abuse, or some kind of traumatic experience, or self esteem issues. Now that there is an unlimited supply of supernormal stimuli available and for free, we have a whole new "contemporary" addict who simply has chronically used something pleasurable, that is accepted by society, and has in turn changed their brain. Overconsumption of anything pleasurable causes sensitization, and desensitization.

Some guys watch porn to experience pleasure, some to ease pain. Both think that it will fill their life with joy, both are wrong.

John Mayer, a guy who dates supermodels, said he would rather watch porn and fantasize over having sex with a real woman, his brain has changed. His life doesn't suck.... In his interview with playboy he said this when talking about how stimulating internet porn is -

I and 3 other of my good friends have experienced porn related dysfunctions, all were normal dudes with normal lives. Why did we all watch porn? Because we thought it was awesome and felt amazing busting all kinds of nuts to, and we were unaware that it might have a negative physical impact. In fact, I didn't believe porn could be the cause until I did the PIED test. I had ED for about a year before I figured it out, since I could get it up with porn I had no clue what it could be.

Now, I would agree that the majority of guys still struggling with porn addiction have some underlying issue, but not all. Some have simply watched a lot of highly stimulating porn from a young age and have addiction related brain changes, sensitization, a highway in our brain that makes us crave porn. Desensitization, a numbed response to other pleasure and normal sexual stimulation, making us want porn. Hypofrontality, weak executive control in our frontal cortex so we make bad decisions, and watch porn.

You do not have to be predisposed to become addicted, you just have to chronically consume leading to brain changes.

However, both groups of guys, the pleasure seekers and the pain avoiders, need to get out and enjoy life. So the message still stands, Get busy doing other healthy things.

The point of TheUnderdogs message is more about "why you can't stop", than it is "why you are addicted".

Hope that helps, Much love

 

All kinds of people watch pornography. However, having a dysfunctional life can eliminate bulwarks that prevent the need or possibility of using porn to extreme results. The need for stimulation, for example, is greatly reduced when you are not chronically bored or depressed. A well-balanced life therefor doesn't necessarily eliminate the usage of porn, but minimizes possible damage to be caused. However, I was not claiming that having an unhealthy life is an absolute necessary prerequisite to develop porn addiction, only that that seems to be the general implication of the OP's post.

 

This new journal article arrived. Finally PhD's are realizing that the old sex addiction model does not apply to digital natives.

A New Generation of Sexual Addiction (Unfortunately one must pay for the entire paper) http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10720162.2013.843067?journalCode=usac20#preview

The new sex addiction is Internet porn addiction in young people. It parallels many of the points that we make on YBOP - that sex addiction is not porn addiction. That pre-existing conditions are not necessary. That simply exposing an adolescent brain to a super-normal stimulus day in and day out can not only cause addiction, but can lead to other symptoms.

According to the paper (paraphrased):

"Traditional" sex addicts have childhood trauma/abuse, attachment difficulties, several other addictions, concurrent mood disorders, and slow progressive behaviors that take years to become entrenched. Patrick Carnes's well-known research revealed that 97% had experienced emotional abuse, 72% were victims of physical abuse, and 81% had been sexually abused

The “contemporary” sex addict is reflected in a wide variety of demographics: age, race, education, gender, and socioeconomic status among them. Rapid-onset addictive patterns are the result of the “3C” toxic cocktail of content, chronicity, and culture, with special concern warranted for children and youth whose age of first exposure interrupts normal biopsychosexual development. Impaired development and comorbid mood disorders are theorized to be the result of addictive behaviors in this population.

Notice the last sentence - means that depression, isolation behavior, loneliness, anxiety, can be caused by the addiction rather than be pre-existing conditions that lead to compulsive porn use.

Both Gabe and TheUnderdog have said as much.

 

I'm going to add some insight on top of GABE's post about some of the science behind addiction and the changes in the brain.

-LIKING a drug vs WANTING a drug-​

It is natural for a person to ‘like’ something that has a positive effect on the reward system. Our reward systems, aka the firing of dopamine, is ignited when our we do something beneficial to our Darwinian fitness; our reproductive success.

A second component to this aspect is the anticipation to receive this reward again. This desire and behavior is known as 'wanting'.

Porn acts like a drug and tricks that brain into thinking that we are passing on our genes into the next generation.
Evolutionarily speaking, we enjoy sex because it benefits our reproductive success, and we enjoy porn because our brains think that we are having sex.

Even as the addictive drug’s effect (porn) no longer has near the same kind of effect that it normally had, the ‘wanting’ aspect of has only increased over time from anticipation.

---This is also why modern day porn is so fucked up for us, we can keep diving deeper and deeper into a never ending dopamine surge. Tired of vanilla sex? Here's some lesbian porn. Tired of lesbian porn? Here's some shemale porn. Tired of shemale porn? Here's some gang bang of underage girls all getting raped by a dog. <--- extreme example, but my point is, it keeps going and going till dopamine surpasses the ability to handle real girls anymore, and in some cases... porn in general.

This is accountable for what seems to be the paradox of an addiction.
Even though porn doesn't give us the excitement, we will compulsively search it anyway.
Unfortunately, porn has a dirty side where we can find anything, so the addiction can run very, very deep.
Despite the fact that we are all fucking up our lives, have ED, have shit views of girls, have social anxiety, we still search it.
This is the exact definition of a drug, using it compulsively despite the negative consequences.

Just because there is now an absence of pleasure does not mean that the compulsive behavior for the drug will stop.

The areas of the brain that are responsible for the ‘wanting’ have now become extremely sensitized due to the original heightened dopamine firing. This non-stop appetite and craving for the drug then starts to show its ugly face in the manner of withdrawal symptoms, as the body is not receiving what it thinks it should be taking. <-- Porn withdrawal. As we all know, porn affects us very similarly to a drug.

This is why even when we fucking hate porn, we can't stop compulsively searching for it. It's an addiction.

Even when we can't get our dicks up, our bodies obviously don't care about the porn anymore- but our compulsions are still so high due to the sensitized 'wanting' signals.



Sorry I know kinda a long read, but hope this helps.

 

Phenomenal post UD, just wow. What a great way to tell it man, seriously. Blunt is the best way.

For the disagreements about not being able to balance both, unless you take on that challenge you're not going to be ready for the emotional emptiness or whirlwinds that follow.

You have to "Basically" suck it up.

Look at the greatest athletes out there, how did they get that good?? (Remember, we are talking about ELITE performers, human beings who are the PINNACLE of strength and endurance.

"When the going got tough, they kept going" they didn't quit.
They litterally had to tell themselves, "I can make it one more step, I have enough left for that." Each and every single step. They had the vision of success beforehand, and that commitment to keep going.

Long story short, albeit off topic. It IS possible to do both. And it is essential to do it this way. You need to be willing to rise to that challenge, the challenge of juggling the worst of your addiction AND working DILLIGENTLY on changing your life RIGHT NOW.

Otherwise, you never will. It will be tomorrow, next week, next month, next year... next lifetime, which we only get one.

----

On another note UnderDog, what is your consensus intimate time with a SIGNIFICANT OTHER over mediums such as Skype or FaceTime??

Because as you stated, NoFap isn't the problem, or reason why we should be doing this, but a lifestyle change, a change in thinking (Changing from lust to love with a woman).

I ask because this post has made me ponder it. Because YES I have relapsed (MOing on video chat.. for my Girl to have something to MO to, or telling eachother stories). But I do not have that "Oh my life is over" feeling after.
I don't do it just to get an O or that high, I do it because as of right now, how our relationship works, thats the ONLY intimacy that we get to have for a while (Five or so months, but when I deploy again).
I do it because I believe deep down, I do it for her. I want HER to feel good (in a O'ing way) by my hand (well sort of, but by my input).

Anyways, just wondering what your thoughts were. A reply would be much appreciated. I shall be switching to a spreadsheet however.

Thanks, and take care.

C

 

I'm taking this on board, thank you. I agree that there are bad aspects of the counter because I have focused on it too much myself. As if restraining myself and abstaining from watching porn will solve everything and life will be awesome. Its not really how it works is it? My real goal is to overcome and live life without the negative and damaging impact porn has on my mind. It is an intense stimulant. I gain a lot of clarity from reading peoples posts and there is a lot of insight on this forum. We are all entitled to our opinions and must ultimately learn to find our own way. The knowledge and experience of others input in this forum certainly helps.

Thanks again

 

Hi there. I have followed your instructions and have added a link to a spreadsheet in my sig. Just posting here to see if it worked ok.

Thought your post was very good. I have been trying to do this on bb.com for a while and find those guys counter mentality to be very disheartening so I think this might be a much better method.

Edit: Good to see it worked. I'll try and keep it updated.

Possibly a dumb question, but I hate messing around with things for ages...how do I add the next months spreadsheet to it? also, can I make graphs out of it? (not that I'll be hanging them on the wall or anything! lol)


On another note. I have not used this forum much, but can we subscribe to threads on here? I.e can we get notified when somone replies to a thread we have posted in?

Thanks!

 

When you login, at the top, right below your username, click on "Show new replies to your posts."

 

Such an informative post Underdog. Thanks for writing it!

 

To Underdog, Gabe, and all who consider them selfs as rebooted/rewired,

Did :

1) You get 100 % erections just from naked woman in front of you, or from thought of normal sex with her, and that erection last certain amount of time without touch?
2) You get rush of adrenaline/dopamine when woman is naked in front of you, similar like porn, now after reboot?
3) Changing positions weakening your erection?
4) Missionary position, is it possible ? (or some guys,like me, simply didn't build for perform in that position)

Your answers would be very helpful, thank You.

Cheers

 

UnderDog could you read my post a few posts up and give me some clarification on the last part in there??

Thanks
C

 

recoverynation.com is AMAZING.

 

HOLY F*CK!! This is an incredible post. I've gone 100 days clean no pmo, but realized the only thing I really gained through that was simply DISCIPLINE. Of course, now even mild makeout scenes in PG13 movies gave me a hard on, but so what. I left this community for a solid 5-6 months, kind of disillusioned...


Great paradigm shift. "Porn doesn't make your life suck".

 

"Basically you have to adopt a philosophy of "I'm either trying to get laid (approaching, texting girls, going out on dates, flirting with women, hanging out with friends, getting rejected) or doing something completely unrelated to sex (work, studying, exercise, fun, reading, playing an instrument, chores, housework, watching movies)".

This is a great summary, I have been going through some temptations, and find reading this thread really helped, thanks so much !

 

Awesome stuff.
Glad to see others saying,
"You cannot quit by focusing on NOT doing, only by focusing on doing."

 

Underdog you know what that post hit me home. It really hit me in the heart. Because everything you said was true. If you focus on streaks,dopamine,testosterone levels you lose sight on giving up porn addiction. Thank you for messaging me this link to read this powerful post. I bookmarked it and will read it everyday. You also mentioned that if you focus on doing other things you will forget about porn. You are so right. Last week I relapsed and complained on my journal how I felt like shit and all. Cid came over and I guess verbally gave a encouragement yelling lol. I know found this and it hits me. I do not have ED. I am here to break this yoke of internet porn./ Your post has shown me I was doing it wrong this whole time focused on streaks. Meantime I would peek at porn or models. The biggest thing that stuck with me was you wrote about sex and thinking about it.

"Basically you have to adopt a philosophy of "I'm either trying to get laid (approaching, texting girls, going out on dates, flirting with women, hanging out with friends, getting rejected) or doing something completely unrelated to sex (work, studying, exercise, fun, reading, playing an instrument, chores, housework, watching movies)".

This is powerful because if you stay fantasizing it will lead you fap and not take actions. Lately I have taken a "get laid with any means necessary," mode. My options are limited(strict parents) but I was scrambling to find a way. I have online dating accounts but lately with school I have not been on those sites. I have been doing this all wrong. I should let it naturally come in stead of being desperate. For months I have felt shame of being a 22 year old virgin but now i see that sex will come. It is just I have to go and work for it just like anything in life. Can't be lazy. I will write my life vision on my journal tonight when I come back from school. This post really helped me Underdog. It really did. You have no idea of how this opened my eyes.

 

Yep...can't argue with it..

Basically for many/most of us, our lives are incredibly crappy...It's like we're on a really shitty sinking ship that has several holes..all the holes need to be plugged in order to save the ship, and stopping PMO, although totally necessary, is simply plugging one holes on this hypothetical sinking ship...