@Mozenjo Good luck with your “cleansing” But I think your situation overall is on a great path! Just be patient and let nature take its course. keep up the great work! It’s great encouragement for me as well.
I most definitely had PTSD when the roof caved in on my life, after the revelation of my affairs. For weeks, I cried at the drop of a hat. I couldn't get myself moving to do anything outside of the usual chores and shit. I exercised more, I tried going out more, but it honestly takes the time it takes. Something beautiful within ourselves has been pummeled. This beautiful something is that room inside where we are most vulnerable and most open. It's what open us up to feel joy and meaning. For us men who have succumbed and been carried away by our baser instinct we have protected this place by building a prison around it. When those prison walls come tumbling down, either by trauma or through revelation, we suddenly feel exposed. Often the first instinct is to re-erect the walls. However, just as often we remain in a kind of no-man's land of being somewhat open and also being afraid. It's a wonderful opportunity to be thus exposed, but there is a brutal flipside. Here are a couple of things that helped me get out of the doldrums and past the fear. 1) I bought a mini-trampoline and began bouncing up and down everyday. I put on fun music and gave myself over to the feeling it engendered. 2) Listening to music that made me work a little. For me this was Beethoven string quartets. I didn't know much about the Classical music sphere, save for the most popular, and so I challenged myself to find out what all this sturm und drang was about. Beethoven quartet no. 15 articulated things in a beautifully abstract way that I never knew I needed to know. 3) I began writing and reading poetry. Writing poetry is like journaling, except you can write down things that don't make sense and it still sounds good. lol Like my journal here, I don't share my poetry with anyone. Somehow poetry contacts that beautiful space directly...the Beethoven quartets do that for me too. The focus, as always, must be on ourselves. We aren't getting a boner to please someone else. My personal journey is so much more profound, so much more important than my marriage. My marriage is something that I have incorporated into my journey; it's a stop along the way, like a pub, as I make my way from birth to death and to I don't know what.
Well, the "clean" MO did clean out the pipes for a bit, but as always, didn't really solve any real problems. I've only MO'd a modest amount this year, though I wish I could say the same for the M. Grabbing the throttle (and sometimes throttling the throttle lol) happens quite a bit more. So I didn't see her Sunday night and went the way of the subs again. Shockingly, I woke up feeling terrible yesterday. Imagine that. The real cleansing will come as a result of being clean and really breaking free of the chains that keep us trapped in this addiction. Thanks for your encouragement as well. It's helping me a lot!
Wow, some great stuff here, Saville. I will respond later, since I have to get to a meeting and do the work day, but I will be thinking about this a lot today.
@Saville thanks for sharing! Many great insights in your post! for me: 1. I have embraced reading books again after many years of stopping 2. I have pushed myself athletically - going beyond my normal comfort zone in how I approach working out, yoga, golf , stretching, hiking, tennis, etc. but trying not to injury myself! Lol. 3 more time listening to and exploring music and watching “good” movies 4 journaling here has been vital 5 more focus on a healthy diet 6 reaching out to family and friends more proactively (so so important!) To beat this addiction - we need to make new lifestyle choices, that make us feel better about our selves.
Yes, when we let the light shine on the dark places we have nurtured, we are like exposed nerves. Not exactly where contentment and virility thrive. I am so ready to stop covering that nerve with the false blanket of dopamine. It just keeps the anxiety from ever going away, since we then become anxious again, mask it with more dopamine, and so on and on and on... Sounds great! My fiancée once told me to do some jumping jacks before we made love so I could get the blood flowing you know where lol. But in addition to being great cardio, something like that forces a change in "state". Which I could certainly use right now. I listened to some of the piece you referenced here and loved it. I had never heard it, though Beethoven is still my favorite composer. I may have mentioned this before at some point, but I really got into classical music in a big way after listening to "How to Listen to and Understand Great Music". Check it out at www.thegreatcourses.com. Robert Greenberg is fantastic. Anyway, whether challenging or not, music is good for the soul. I actually read a long article a few hours ago while trying to get back to sleep after driving home from her house at 2 in the morning. It was about Yes's album Close to the Edge, which is a desert island disc for me. The album is 50 years old this year, and since I clicked on an article about it a few months ago, I get everything anyone in the world has written about it now on my "feed" on the phone. Gotta love those cookies, ugh. Anyway, I imagine guys our age who were into prog rock back then have heard it at least once. The title track opens with some pretty challenging instrumental stuff, which to the uninitiated is a cacophony of chaos, and it still challenges me after all these decades. I was fascinated to learn that the band was inspired to create this opening partly due to them touring at the time with the Mahavishnu Orchestra, another old favorite of mine that can be extremely challenging, but rewards with some truly virtuosic and orgasmic passages. Anyway, I could go on and on, but yes, music!!! Will have to give this a go. Reading someone else's poetry is usually not satisfying to me, though I did form an appreciation for it after taking a class in it in college a million years ago. But writing my own sounds like it could be very satisfying. Great idea. I'll have to break that to my gal Well, since I'm about to have another go at Ye Olde Ball and Chain (doesn't sound like a very inviting pub, does it?), I hope it's a very enjoyable stop, indeed. Otherwise, what's the point? But yes, ultimately we must create the journey for ourselves, because we are individuals after all. My goal is to do that while enjoying the many fruits of being with someone who, for at least some precious moments, makes me feel greater than just myself. Have a great day!
Great stuff, path-forward! I agree with all of it. I too have started reading for pleasure again, and am loving it. But what I need to work on more is connecting with friends and family. I have lots of room for improvement there, as I tend to be insular by nature. But whenever I do reach out, I feel much better for it.
Awesome! I listened to it on cassette in my car in around 2005 as I recall. It's quite an investment of time, but I enjoyed the heck out of it. Looks like they're on the 3rd edition now.
Starting Day 5 of monk mode. I probably shouldn't call it that, as I'm no monk, lol. Staying away from the subs has been difficult for me, and I'm really feeling some guilt for telling the fiancée I haven't looked at porn since early in the year, when I know damn well that looking at racy pictures is in many ways just parsing reality. My reality is that I'm still struggling mightily with my addiction, and those P-subs are keeping me tethered to it. As I've said many times, if it gets the dopamine going, or even if it doesn't, if you know you shouldn't be looking at pictures of clothed or semi-clothed women, that means it's pretty much still porn, right? We had a tough conversation last night. We were embracing and feeling some stirrings of passion, but it was a work night and we were exhausted. Plus, I wasn't up for it. She wasn't either, really, but we still dove into the subject of my ED again. She is not going to let me off the hook when it comes to "solving" this problem. Or at least taking concrete steps to address it. Since I'm still hopeful that just being squeaky clean for an extended period will do the trick, I also know that I have a powerful clue that it is not just that. Meaning, no amount of the ED drug seems to help anymore. It is truly all in my head. I suppose I should find a sex therapist and talk this through. I mentioned that I have gotten good advice from my "men's group" (this place), and that opened up a wound for her, as her feelings of being betrayed from earlier this year came back just by my mention of it. So probably won't go there again. But I mentioned that what a therapist told one of the guys here is that not focusing solely on intercourse, and trying other ways of connecting sexually might work, or at least help. At that point in the conversation, however, she wasn't receptive to that. So I have my work cut out for me...
@Mozenjo you are working very hard. But please do not be so hard on yourself! It’s very easy to fall into that mind set, as I have also done that a lot in my life. you need to celebrate your victories! You are doing great! Your post shows how much you care about both your own desire to conquer PMO AND your desire to please and connect with your fiancée. Don’t worry about a “white lie” regarding PMO dates. You are way beyond worrying about that - given all your efforts. And try to look for a middle ground regarding intimacy with her. Try “subtle” romance. Light some candles and offer to give your fiancée a nude massage. Even dressed to start. Buy some massage oils if she would like that. Or at least get brownie points for trying! But tell her, no sexual expectations. You just want to be in the moment and want her to respect your desire to approach intimacy in a patient gentle manner. You want to just enjoy each other and take an approach for a great long term relationship. Great sex is a journey; not a race. Enjoy the process. Most importantly - Tell her you thought of all this! That you are reaching deep within looking for ways to increase the feelings of connection, love and intimacy between you two. That you love her intensely and want to keep finding new ways to grow closer and more trusting together. (Sorry if this is too “mushy” for dudes to discuss! I have learned a lot of this from my dear sensually minded wife). Keep up the great work! You should be very proud of yourself.
I didn't like your post because you were feeling great, but because you are fighting the good fight. path-forward nailed a number of important things. I don't know what the answer is for you, obviously, but here are a couple of things I know about myself. 1) Sometimes I just don't feel like sex and that's ok. My wife offered sex the other day and I declined. We aren't machines and there are times when our psyche is more interested in reading than sex. 2) I need to feel like I'm in charge. For me that means not being a passive participant, which was my go-to when I was younger. Sex is about me cumming and if the wife cums too then that's a bonus. Again, for me, I need to mark my territory a little, kind of like a dog who has to pee on all of the bushes of his yard. Like a dog, the wife is a repository for my dick. Yes, to any nice guy that sounds horrible, but sometimes reducing ourselves to something primal helps us get in touch with a deeper hunger. Just some thoughts, my friend.
Great post, path-forward! When I told her I feel pressure to perform, she thought I meant she was pressuring me, but I reassured her that I am the one putting pressure on myself. OK, maybe she's doing a little pressuring too, lol. I will get past this. Thanks for your support!
Right you are. I'm almost dreading Saturday nights in a way, since I know that I will be expected to be ready to go at the same time as always. Well, sometimes I'm not. Yep, when things are working well, it's usually when I feel like I'm in charge. Or at least on the same page...
@Mozenjo you are very welcome. Very happy to hear my advice resonated with you. I also know you will get past this. Just be patient with yourself and enjoy the journey. You are doing wonderfully and are a big source of inspiration and support for me as well. @Saville thanks also to you for your kind feedback on my post. Much appreciated - as I have incredible respect for your insights. And on the subject of being “in charge” in the bed room - I think it’s a HUGE turn on for many men! My wife has joked that I only enjoy sex “on my terms!” So I would turn down her overture for sex and then start groping her 10 minutes later! Lol
Btw, Moz, just wanted to clarify that I in no way think you are not manly - you are! I realize that I often say the same things, over and over again. "Blah blah, we're in charge, fuck everyone else, be King Kong!" What I'm getting at, I think, is that we need to change the paradigm, not just the pattern. Maybe it was easier for me to burn it all down (my previous way of being) because I didn't have much to lose. My marriage couldn't have been any worse and I had already been exposed as a horrible person. Nowhere to go but up. lol Oh, and unintentional pun. I read in the New Yorker recently that there are those psychologists who now believe our emotions are not just organic, but also cultural. In other words, much of our reaction to things is learned behavior. There are cultures that have no word for anxiety, and so their responses to situations and other people are quite different. We think of emotions as universal states, states than even animals have, but there is growing evidence that part of our reactions are rooted in whatever culture we live in. I'm still mulling all of it over, but I'm going to reread the article and articulate it better in my own journal. Cheers!
Geez, I'm really losing it. lol I'm not sure where I was going with that, except perhaps that what we think is the issue is seldom the issue. Also, whether we are lead, follow, are tricked, or accidently, go down one path or another, our mind is often unable to fully process what's going on. We partially retreat to what we think we know as we try and get our bearings. "Hmm, haven't see this terrain before." It's like Hansel and Gretel coming upon the witches house in the forest; it's something unexpected. Oops, now inside the gingerbread is a jail and a big fire for cooking people. I've had dreams where I was being pursued by something/someone and suddenly I knew it was a dream. I was able to step out of the dream and suddenly I no longer felt afraid. Maybe none of this makes sense.
Well, thanks man. I wasn't really thinking about that, but mighty cool of you to clarify anyway Yeah, I think I get what you're saying. If a paradigm shift is necessary, it's because there isn't the right balance between the partners in a relationship. The fiancée definitely rubs me the wrong way sometimes (so to speak), usually because she says some harsh things without thinking them through - but for the most part I think we have a good dynamic. She likes it when I make the first move, but she also prefers things to follow a certain "order" in our lovemaking. And that doesn't always work for me. Anyway, whatever isn't working for me right now will, I'm confident, start working again soon. We had some really good sex on vacation, but with getting Covid while on our trip and then feeling under the weather, plus some times when we just weren't clicking, the equipment wasn't functioning as often as I would have liked. I really wish I was the kind of guy who could just fuck away regardless of external circumstances, but that's rarely been me. Funny you should bring this up. Just this morning, while driving around, "Hidden Brain" came on NPR, and this was the subject. I'm going to listen to the whole thing on the internet when I get a chance, but yes, our culture is more important than we may have thought about what is innate in all humans vs. what is learned based on how and where we're raised. It does. Not to get too NPR-ish here, but on the way home at 2am again this morning, there was a talk on the BBC stream about dream interpretation from ancient texts, and how a lot of what was written was based on the writers' dreams. So dreams are super important. I rarely remember mine, but when I do, it's usually for a really brief period right after I wake up, and I wake up because of the power of the dream's events or the feelings they are bringing up. So as it relates to the subject at hand, if some clues about what's going on behind the scenes can be revealed to me and give me some newfound perspective, then bring it on! I've always wondered what the "lucid dreaming" thing is all about. Will have to look into that. Thanks, Saville, for all this food for thought
