Masturbation without porn?

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by Stramanova, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. Stramanova

    Stramanova New Member

    Guys, I always read about how masturbation with porn is bad, but I can barely find anything about masturbation where porn is not involved. Does it have the same negative effects on your mind, or is it just that it often escalates to masturbating with porn? I desperately want to know, because I'm now staying the heck of porn, as I know what it does to me, but still 'relapse' into masturbating with fantasy, as I have no idea if it affects me.

    What I'm mostly trying to find out is whether stopping both porn AND masturbation gives enough benefits in return for those terrible days where the cravings kick in. Also, why is it that I sometimes feel awesome after only 20 days of abstaining, while other times I still feel horrible even after 40+ days?
     
  2. Vajurima

    Vajurima New Member

    I know most guys here say porn is the only culprit, but like someone here said and i wholeheartly agree, is that the problem is when the arousal comes from your mind/fantasies and not the real woman on front of you.

    I have quit porn 100 days ago, i still suffer from "problems". Compulsive masturbation, with or without porn, is, IMHO, the ultimate culprit.

    On a side note, intersting enough i got a peakline 30 days after stoping porn. Great time indeed, but it was a peakline, which IMHO is why some guys come runnning here to tell they are cured They are not, they got a peakline. 30+/40+ years old guys having a hard on just because a hottie is on fron of them? Oh please... I don't know if peaklines have seen spoken here, but that's my 2 cents.
     
  3. fugu

    fugu "You know, feelin' good, livin' betta." :) Staff Member

    It's hard to know for sure. I think for some people compulsive masturbation can be their problem, whereas for others porn and masturbation are the culprits of their issues.

    However, in terms of erectile dysfunction, I believe high-speed pornography is the most logical cause. Erectile dysfunction and other sexual dysfunction issues have increased tremendously in the 21st century. Here's a good source illustrating the dramatic increase in ED and other sexual dysfunction issues: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22727073

    People have been, presumably, masturbating for a long time. Why the sudden increase in ED now? The relatively recent introduction of high-speed porn makes a lot of sense.
     
  4. gameover

    gameover Age: 26

    I dont think its food to compare masturbation to fantasy with masturbation to fantasy of today, especially when someone has watched a lot of porn.

    40 years ago guys would masturbate to the thought of a girl, a girls ass or tits etc.

    We dont really know how bad fantasy is for guys recovering from ED because knowone used to get ED from masturbation and porn. Sexual Fantasy today from my own experience can have as much novelty as porn, unlimited scenarios etc
     
  5. TREBOR

    TREBOR PMA, not PMO.

    Personally I think porn is the catalyst for ED. Men (and women) have been masturbating for years but it's only in the last couple of decades that ED has become a major problem for men.

    I'm actually finding that masturbation, maybe once a week is erasing all my thoughts of P and unreasonable fantasy. Further details in my journal.
     
  6. Vajurima

    Vajurima New Member

    Yes, that seem logical to me. I've been doing it since 14 or 15 years old and clearly remember at 27 not having problems except premature ejaculation. However since that age, problems have been almost constant. The intersting thing is that i started going to gym at that time as well. And sure thing i had "i gotta have 6-pack abs" ansiety and that means, lifting hard and eating less calories and over some time of doing too much too hard, of it wrecked my metabolism. That wrecks the sexual performance as well.
     
  7. Bangkok

    Bangkok New Member

    For me Porn and chronic masturbation go together, just stopping porn and fapping is no good.
    I just start honing in my fantasies from all those years of porn so i can't see much difference between the two and it gets more and more frequent.
    If i'm going to spend half my life fapping i may as well use porn.
     
  8. NO ​
    P. M. O.
     
  9. Vajurima

    Vajurima New Member


    My answer:


    While i disagree that porn is the only culprit, it's still one enemy.
     
  10. brainslave

    brainslave Guest

    I view sexual urges as something normal. Everyone has potential energy to slip from that into MO. Small MO is a steeper slope. Then, compulsive MO is steeper. PMO is very steep, with fetish PMO being the steepest.


    You gotta decide for yourself what your body responds the best to. To me it is no PMO no MO. I was (and with my last relapse) still am using M as medication to numb mental pain (which I'm not proud of). W/ MO, it's only a matter of time before I make up an emotional decision to PMO.


    Do what works for you. Right now you can make the right decision; when things will start going bad it will be the system you've built that will drive your life or will let go into PMO.


    Best luck my friend
     
  11. WoLong

    WoLong Guest

    The communicated rule is often that whatever sexual fantasy you use to provide stimulation during masturbation shouldn't resemble pornography, (although some say you should avoid all fantasy.)

    Personally, though, I would suggest against MO. Many people who do nofap (and many individuals and cultures throughout history) feel sexual energy accumulates as a fuel when it is not spent. Semen contains creatine, which will undoubtedly improve physical function when reabsorbed, although the relevant factor is whether the effect is great enough to be noticable. The same goes for any other benefitial substance that might be present in semen.

    By all means MO to prevent PMO if necessary, though.
     
  12. simonsays

    simonsays New Member

    Im going to call bs on this one. This is mostly a belief in eastern/asian culture. We are talking about a tablespoon of gravy here. It serves a function for reproduction and doesn't do any good keeping it in the sack forever. Nothing ultra nutritional or sacred about it. Our ancestors have been ejaculating for 200,000 years. Although i agree that anything in excess can be bad. It's highspeed internet porn that is harming men today. Not ejaculation.
     
  13. Brunevii

    Brunevii Something I try to teach all my boys..

    Are you suggesting people store and eat their semen so they don't lose out on creatine?
     
  14. WoLong

    WoLong Guest

    Here is an incomplete list of certain components that appear in semen:
    Acid phosphatase
    calcium,
    chlorine,
    cholesterol,
    citric acid,
    creatine,
    fructose,
    inositol
    lactic acid,
    magnesium,
    nitrogen,
    prostoglandins
    phosphorus,
    potassium,
    sodium,
    Vitamin C
    vitamin B12,
    zinc

    Nutrients found in sperm are recycled when not ejaculated, and semen production halts or decreases after time without ejaculation. It's evident that there will be an effect on an organism if semen is retained, whether this effect will be significant is an area of controversy.

    No. Theoretically, the benefits would occur as a result of semen retention.
     
  15. ppycat

    ppycat Guest

    a few things that need clarification (keep in mind that I'm not a doctor or any authority, just an average guy):

    1. yes, people have been masturbating for ages and it's only since high-speed internet porn entered the stage that cases of ED have exploded in number. it would seem thus that there is a direct link between porn and ED, and not so much a link between masturbation and ED. what we must take in consideration before claiming anything are the differences in masturbation habits then and now. given access to unlimited, highly arousing porn, how likely is someone to engage in compulsive masturbation compared to someone who must squeeze his brains to fantasize about a real life woman? another thing that most of the users on this forum believe in is that without porn, our sex lives would have been more healthy and a lot more social, involving real partners instead of fantasies. that being said, why would our ancestors (20 years ago and beyond) masturbate as much as we do now? since they didn't have access to this much porn, we must assume, otherwise it would be hypocrite to believe in the above statement, that their sexual life was healthy and their masturbation habits didn't change much to that. the only conclusion I can draw is that masturbating, even with some fantasy, should not be seen as negative and is not a cause of ED!

    2. however, like said before, too much is too much. another problem is that in theory, we could engage in healthy masturbation from now on. but in reality, once we start, we go on to consume porn, just to deliver a quicker and more intense orgasm. especially during the reboot, this can work against us, hence the reason why masturbation should be avoided at all costs until you feel that your body and mind are in a stable balance again, for a considerable amount of time! inconsistent balance can be tricky and one must not hurry! after that, it is each one's choice to engage in whatever habits they want, knowing what porn and excessive masturbation can cause.

    3. fantasy is regarded as something negative because in the beginning (the first few months), our fantasies are nothing but modified versions of the porn scenes we found in our head. the fact that your brain is numb for feelings and creativity makes you take the easy path when using fantasy as a help tool. you can't imagine how that hot girl would look like naked? you can't imagine having loving, caring sex with that nice girl? "let's just recall that porn scene that kept you edging for hours", says your brain. there lies the danger, not in the act of fantasizing itself. a healthy person who has natural fantasies about someone will not get himself into trouble, while a porn addict who keeps fantasizing based on his porn past will only make things worse. my opinion is that once you start to recover, if your mind starts fantasizing on its own, without being extreme or unrealistic, you should allow it. not necessarily reinforce the fantasy, but allow it to be. if you ask me, ignoring or suppressing this kind of thoughts could affect the libido on the long term. after all, if you wouldn't be on the good path, your fantasies would be forced and unnatural, right?

    I think that the main difference between us and the previous generations is that we have a choice to watch porn. older guys would fantasize in the beginning and then try to get that girl in their beds, eventually not having to fantasize anymore (or at least not that much). on the long term, fantasizing about someone would be a cue to pursue a relationship, since the reward would be real sex! we, on the other hand, we fantasize, than go home and bust nuts thinking how nice it would have been to fuck that girl we've been fantasizing about.

    who agrees? ::)
     
  16. TREBOR

    TREBOR PMA, not PMO.

    All this stuff about semen being a 'magical fuel' and by ejaculating you are losing your sexual powers is utter bullshit.

    When I first started with ED, before I knew it was PIED, I went to see a doctor who sent me for tests to check my sperm count, blood count and testosterone levels. The results came back completely normal. Healthy sperm count, healthy blood count, healthy testosterone levels. All this after 17 years of PMO.

    If you believe all the semen/testosterone myths, my 17 years of PMO should probably have rendered me infertile, my blood should have reduced to a trickle and I should have the same testosterone levels as a woman!
     
  17. yea, but i believe a problem with alot of men on this website or nofap overdue the masturbation, and when they abstain for once, it's like a kick in the ass.
     
  18. simonsays

    simonsays New Member

    Eactly, its just ball gravy with it's soul purpose in life being for reproduction. If it's not manually released through sex or MO, it is released automatically through nocturnal emission. Yes there is nutrients in there, but it's just enough to keep the little swimmers swimming. Paranoid about that tablespoon of fluid you just lost? Take a "1-a-day for men" if it bothers you that much! The rest is just bro-science, theories, and cultural myths.

    Yes this nofap movment seems to be necessary for blokes with PIED, but sometimes people take it too far. We modern humans have been around for over 200,000 years (from a non religious standpoint) and have been releasing sperm the entire time. Unlimited high-speed internet porn has been around for 13 years. That is the enemy.
     
  19. simonsays

    simonsays New Member

    Take this from someone who started shaping my sexuality without porn.
    My focal point of this goes back to 1986. This was when I was in grade school and just noticing the opposite sex as being attractive. I would look at a female and fantasize about doing ALL kinds of things. This was before the Internet and before I even seen a porno magazine. I would MO at night to nothing but natural fantasy.

    To me, this is a natural and healthy part of our human sexuality in it's purest form. Don't get me wrong, every time I get a scene from a porn, I stamp it out. Every time I fantasize about the lady next door, I think back to 1986 see it as natural and part of being human. I am learning to distinguish between the two since permanently giving up porn (a work in progress).
     
  20. Vajurima

    Vajurima New Member

    I don't throw a new age talk, but porn wasn't the only thing that happened the last 20 years, it was/is: stress, ansiety, with too much sexual stimulation and therefore more masturbation, losing connection to ourselves, more emptiness that we feel the need to fill and we do it the wrong way. Everyone looking for a quick fix. We are too mental nowadays. Using too much the defense mechanism of isolation, which makes us be too much on the head and ignoring the feelings. It makes us be desensitized.

    Isn't fantazising a mental thing that keeps the arousal in our head and therefore make us ignore our physical feelings, feelings that are needed to be aknowledged when a real woman is on front of us?

    Our ancestors masturbated too, but nowadays, i guess we do it a lot more. But why? I guess this is a egg and chiken question.


    Edit: I just wanna say IMHO, that too much stimulation is the primary reason and the causes for it are: porn, facebook pics, more liberal women and sex oriented stuff nowadays.
     

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