Looking for feedback

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Doofus, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    Seven weeks.

    Night before last, I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't go back to sleep until the time I was supposed to wake up. My successful streak with magnesium ended. I had awoken at So, last night I tried just zinc and I slept until 4. So, a little better, I guess. Didn't run or stretch yesterday so maybe that was a factor. I spent the day out of town with the in-laws, then cooking, then fighting with my wife.

    I haven't gone out to run yet. It's really cold out here - it was 20 F when I woke up. When I'm under-rested, I find that my will-power is in short supply. I did do dishes so that's something...

    I'm finishing up coffee and half-hoping I'll get my weekly HJ before I go run. Probably not, though. There's a ton to do to get ready for christmas and for my family etc. etc.

    Oh, no detected MW today, but when after I got to sleep yesterday morning, I awoke full on and it lasted for a while after I woke, too. Sleep.... I feel more strongly than ever that it lies at the core of many of my issues.

    Anyway, I'm hanging in there here at the beginning of day 49.
  2. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    I'm going to write for a bit, since I'm feeling tempted - indeed, I came very close to watching P this morning when I couldn't sleep.

    Let's see.... I haven't used the light alarm clock the last two mornings so that my wife can sleep in a bit on these few days she has off. I took magnesium last night but still woke up on my own at 3:30. Had a glass of wine and a beer to get back to sleep. I'm pretty disappointed in myself, my discipline right now. I think I'm having difficulty because some subset of my family is coming tonight/tomorrow/who knows? and we are not ready - not even close. My Dad is coming tonight, he says at 4, which probably means 2. On top of this, I'm sick. It's not serious, probably just a head cold, but I'm not feeling energetic or like dealing with the bs of the next two or more days.

    I've had at least semi-hard ons when I woke the last few nights. This morning (3:30) was dreaming of sex with the wife before I woke. My erection was only maybe 75% though. I'm still a little worried about having trouble because of my drinking, which, I am not controlling well over the holidays. Up to thanksgiving, I had worked my way down to a bottle or less of wine a night. This, of course, is too much, but it's so much less than I had been drinking. But But these last few weeks, it's crept back up to two bottles, sometimes two bottles plus. I'm off hard liquor, which is good and a little progress. That means I'm hardly ever blacking out, but..... I haven't been exercising as much as I'd hoped either.

    Part of the problem is that these aren't really holidays in the sense that I have them 'off'. It was just a week ago I turned in my grades. Thursday and Friday I was babysitting contractors. Saturday was spent with in-laws. Sunday and Monday was spent trying to make progress on the house and Xmas shopping with the family. Yesterday was Xmas of course and that brings me to today. I can't seem to get traction on a number of things I'd hoped to do over break. Today tomorrow and possibly Friday is my siblings and dad, Friday night is a party I've been invited to, (oh, yeah, last Friday was a party with friends of my wife that I didn't know... as it turns out neither, despiter a lot of talk from her, did she: She introduced the wife of the guy she's friends with by the wrong name - wasn't close. I knew because, it turns out, the wife had been a student of mine years ago! Funny...). Next week is devoted to getting my son back to where he goes to college for surgery (we trust the doctors there more than the doctors here) and back, then, resolving his living situation, then and then and then.....

    On the other hand, I've had enough free time that I've been tempted to PMO more than I have in a while, I think. I've also arrived at about the same day that I broke my streak a few years ago. As I said above, I was looking at things way beyond what I should be last night and yesterday afternoon, truth be told. No video, but stills from P - just briefly, before I closed the windows, but still.

    Anyway, here I am on day 52.
  3. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    So, I just looked it up: My streak ended last time at day 51. That gives me some encouragement and motivation to make it through today. I want to beat what I did last time. I know the canonical wisdom is to not thing about it in terms of days or streaks, but ,right now, it's helping me to do so. Maybe once I get past 90 or whatever, I can be more zen....
  4. dig deep

    dig deep must stop wasting my life on porn

    Hi Doofus, have you tried any herbal remedies for sleep like valerian?
  5. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    Hi dig deep. Thanks for your reply and suggestion!

    I have not tried valerian. My therapist suggested CBD oil, but, for whatever reason, I haven't yet. Maybe after this weekend. But I'll give valerian a shot, too. Any particular brand of supplements you like?
  6. dig deep

    dig deep must stop wasting my life on porn

    I'm in the UK so I don't know if you have the same brands but Nytol is a good make but have a look in the supermarket in the supplement/vitamin section and see what they got. By the way well done on being 52 days clean
    Boxer17 likes this.
  7. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    So, I made it through day 52. New PR. Woke at 4:30. No MW,or, rather weak MW. I'm dissapointed

    My jerky family will be here today. Hopefully only today. They bring out the worst in my wife as well. I haven't written much about my relationship in this second reboot. Thursday is my normal therapy day, but, with the holidays and all, I'll use this forum as my therapist.

    Warning: The following is long and very much stream of conscious rambling.

    First, I guess, therapy: I've been going weekly since the beginning of September. The guy I'm seeing, it turns out, is only 29 and only recently married. He's married to a woman, but, I'm pretty sure he's gay. I'm not sure why I'm mentioning this, aside from my sleep-deprived stream of consciousness brain is thinking about that, so I'll type it. My younger son is and I have mentioned that to him. He seemed oddly non-committal about it, which I found weird, even given that, I guess, that's what therapists are supposed to do. So, anyway, I looked him up on facebook which contained a surprising amount of information about himself. I would think therapists would keep all of that private.

    I sought therapy because I spent last summer nearly paralyzed by depression and anxiety. I had some serious crying jags, some of them in front of or because of my wife and she pushed me to get help. Is it helping? I don't know, really. One issue is that the sessions have deteriorated into me recounting my week, mostly the fresh developments in the financial decline of my college. Though that's certainly a source of stress, it's not really why I sought counseling. Because I'm talking to him about this one part of my life, which, takes so long to describe (the events with the college are a bit like all the other news cycles these days...), I'm not talking to him about other things - my addictions and childhood traumas and current anxieties about money etc etc. I have talked, in general terms, about the lack of resilience I feel, of a relative lack of self-discipline but not many specifics. In particular, I'm not talking to him about PMO. I'm not sure why not, except to say that, other than PIED it hadn't seemed to be a major problem in my life. Maybe that's not true.
    I've been wondering for a while now whether my M (which I was doing every day to P most of these last few years) because it messed with dopamine and, thus, seratonin and melatonin was actually part of the cause of my sleeplessness, depression and anxiety, and, thus my lack of productivity, which in turn makes me more depressed and anxious and so on. I know that there are claims that no PMO can lead to less social anxiety. Is that chemical? Or is it just that many people who try to kick PMO are doing so for religious or ethical reasons and the shame of PMO is what causes their social anxiety? I wonder.

    I wonder too, whether my seemingly slow progress this time around (I'm still waiting for spontaneous day-time erections and more consistent MW..although I'm not sure that happened last time) is due to the dopamine hits I get from booze or from the peeking at scantily clad women I've been doing. I guess I need to do more reading about this. To be honest, I haven't because I'm afraid that this works not because science but because of placebo, or, just a build up of horniness. My current understanding of PMO and addiction and dopamine seems to be reinforcing to me. Just a little knowledge can be dangerous, but, in being a patient it can be a saving grace.

    Anyway, the aside aside, my therapist indicated in the beginning that we would be using emdr as means of resolving past issues and thus speed me on my way to healing. We've only used it once, and, to be honest, I'm not sure it was effective. It was interesting and, the sort of free-association I did while doing it was revealing. I sometimes think it worked, I am doing better, and now my therapist only continues to see me because it makes him money. That doesn't quite make sense, I guess: I don't know.... On one hand, I decide when I'm feeling better enough, but on the other, my issues have always seemed to abate when I'm busy enough, which, I am during the school year. I was hoping to heal to the extent that, when I have more free time I wouldn't be afflicted again as I was last summer. God, I wish I was sleeping better. I feel like if I was I could think ( and write....) more clearly about this.

    I suppose that, though I'm not talking about my addictions with him, whatever combination of factors, including therapy, even if its effect is inexplicable, or one that I don't understand, I am making progress on my addictions, at least on PMO. As I note above, I could do better with my internet viewing habits, but, I am advancing toward my original goal of no P and no M to O. And no triggering movies about infidelity, which is my favorite porn scenario.

    I feel - a little - like the success I've had so far with no PMO might serve as a starting point and source for success in improving myself in the other ways I need to.

    Anyway, today's going to suck I'm afraid. I hate the holidays, truth be told. I don't really have much contact with family during the rest of the year, and, we're supposed to make it all up in a few hours. But, at least I'll be busy here and so I will be less likely to on day 53.
  8. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    Boy that's the truth. The definition of pornography is material designed to sexually arouse. Using that definition much of what we view is pornography. It is just the degree of arousal that is in question.
  9. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    So, I'm going to continue with my assuredly incoherent stream of consciousness posts, the theory being that 1. Writing keeps me from peeking and 2. I'm writing for me rather than for anyone reading. If you are reading, and, not me, I apologize:

    So, still failing on my other issues. It was kind of a stressful day with my family, though not as bad as I feared. Still, though I was exhausted, and sick, I stayed up to drink alone on the couch. I fell asleep, then, awoke at 11, went up stairs, more wine in hand, fell asleep again at 12 and then woke at 4 (my new 3:30...) I didn't take any of my chemical aids, nor did I set my light alarm clock. I kind of feel like the holidays are over now that my family is gone, so I've resolved to make today the start of my new regimen. In particular I'll get back to exercising, which I've felt too sick to do these last few day, or, what energy I had to exercise, given that I'm sick, has been devoted to house and holiday things.

    When I woke at 4 I had maybe 75% MW, so that's ... mediocre, but better than I feared. Reflecting on it, I think it's good because it indicates that the lack of it is probably a function only of P, or approximations of P. I was so busy yesterday, I didn't peek at all. I'm going to dig in today and not peek again (I mean no looking at 'non-P' images) and see if I can replicate the result. That is, if I can lend evidence to the hypothesis that my recovery is dependent on a stricter definition of P. I both fear and hope that it is.

    Anyway, I'll probably write more later, here on day 54.
  10. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    So, I got back to sleep at about 6:30, unfortunately with the help of wine. But I slept until 10:30, and awoke with full on MW! So, again, sleep is key, it seems. So, I'm going to:
    1. Finish reading the better sleep book I bought.
    2. Stretch at least twice/day
    3. Exercise at least 2 hours/day
    4. Use my light alarm
    5. Continue experimenting with magnesium zinc etc and do that consistently and keep a log book about it
    6. Continue abstaining from PMO
    7. Drink less - no drinking if I wake up in the middle of the night, make it to my bed at the right hour, less than smashed.

    Starting today!
    Boxer17 likes this.
  11. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    Eight weeks. I'm kind of sick. I've had a mild sore throat and a headache for the last week or so, but I haven't been able to rest really. I ran for an hour yesterday to get the car from the shop and felt OK, but in the middle of grocery shopping I suddenly felt exhausted. I don't have a fever, though. Kind of weird. So, I'm laying in bed typing here.

    I'm kind of getting things done, but not necessarily things on the above list. I haven't started reading the sleep book, because I've been under the weather I haven't gotten two hours of exercise in (though, I did, actually , yesterday - if I count the walk I went on with my wife and warm up on the bike before my run...) and I stretched yesterday but only once.

    I've done some hard things I've been avoiding: The car for one: It's been noisy and a little unstable at high speeds for 4 months now! I figured it was the tires, but it could have been something more serious. I finally took it in yesterday. Turns out it was the tires! (And a warped rotor...) but not, as I had begun to fear, the wheel bearing and all the damage a bad bearing can cause if left unrepaired for as long as the car has been noisy and unstable (it seemed to rock excessively on the highway).

    I started working with my son on his college apps and had the courage to ask about his grades this past semester and his most recent SAT scores. For a while now, I just automatically assume news about anything, my car, my finances, the boys, will be bad and I've been ducking finding out what that news is. As I've written above, I'm hoping that the strength demonstrated and, hopefully, gained by resisting PMO will help me face other hard things which in turn will help me face harder things still and so on. It seems that's sort of happening, but not to the extent I'd hoped.

    Because I'm sick (or she says that's why) no HJ from the wife today, I guess. I tried a bit ago. Nope. We don't have to kiss or do anything that might lead to her getting sick. Anyway, I'm pretty horny and tempted and mad about this so I'm writing here. Yesterday, I started watching a racy movie with the intent of ending the streak, but, I stopped after a few seconds. I'm still clean, but it was a close call. Resisting temptation has, unfortunately, not gotten any easier.

    I'm also upset about my older boy. I'll probably write more about that later, but I wanted to be sure to check in at least once before I start reading the sleep book like I promised here on day 56.
    Boxer17 likes this.
  12. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    I do think choices in one area of life can affect other areas

    Way to go Doofus.
    It may not get easier but I think we can carve new thought channels,so to speak, in which our response to temptation can be modified
    Doofus likes this.
  13. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    So, wife and I did make out yesterday and I O'd. It took a bit of time to get hard. I don't know if that's because it's been a while, or, because I'm old or it's normal regardless, but it took a minute or two before I started to get hard and another few minutes before I was at 100%. But I did reach 100%. No DE either. Probably 10 minutes before I came. So that's all really good.
    No chaser effect so far, I don't think. Probably because I am sick. Unfortunately, laying in bed with my laptop and the door closed is not making abstaining easy.

    A piece of good news is that I'm about half way through the sleep book. I'm also gathering strength to set some goals and make plans for 2019. For starters, I've decided to extend no PMO. I think at the beginning of this streak I had said I'd re-evaluate at new years or when I seemed 'better' whichever came last. While, in many ways I am better and here it is, the new year, but I'm going to keep on keeping, well, off - of PMO. For starters, I still haven't had any spontaneous day-time erections, which is something I'd like to get back to. For another, abstaining from PMO is the only way in which I'm really being more disciplined. It's my beach head from which I can launch attacks on the other ways in which I'm falling short of who I want to be.

    The only issue is that I'd really like to be having more sex than weekly HJs from my only sometimes interested wife. I guess I should read articles about this, but I find it difficult to accept that this is going to be the full extend of my sex life for the rest of my life. Not that PMO was that great, really, but it was something. And the fantasies were an outlet. Real sex is a million times better. PMO is like eating cotton candy for dinner. It's a waste of time money and your health, unless, perhaps, those are the only calories available.
    I've thought about asking my wife for permission to sleep around. I think there might be women out there who would say yes to me. But having been a cheater in the past, I don't want to revisit the feelings of guilt and anxiety that cheating provoked in me. It wasn't worth it. Anyone on here with any experience with this? I don't know how serious I am - I'd probably chicken out before even asking my wife, but it's something I'm thinking about at the moment here on day 57.
  14. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    Happy New Year's everyone!

    So, elsewhere I've written, somewhat despairingly, that many of the promised benefits of abjuring PMO haven't been realized, but, maybe I hadn't been giving them a fair chance. I've been to two holiday parties in the past few days and at both, I noticed, acutely, how sexually aggressive women can be,how awkward. Now it might be that these parties and women were just outliers, but I don't think so. I think that either I haven't noticed this in the past because I was so buzzed out by my PMO, or, maybe as promised by no-PMO advocates, not PMOing makes you more attractive to women. I actually found myself trying to change the subject to my wife with these women who were 1. just steps away from her and 2. at the parties with their bf's and definitely hitting on me!

    I've long wondered whether straight women felt about sex and men the same way straight men feel about women and sex. And the answer, I feel, at least right now, is 'no'. They're far hornier. Or at least hornier than 54 year old me.
    I think that, historically, women haven't had to use PMO because they feel, at least, that men will always say yes to their sexual overtures. And so, most women are calmer, less objectifying about pursuing sexual adventure, but, nonetheless, strongly strongly interested in obtaining it. They've never had to feel desperate, or, were shamed if they felt that way and expressed it. So, all of this seems hidden to those of us who think of sex primarily in terms of scenarios in the P we watch. But as those influences lose their strength, we see more accurately.

    Maybe too, I admit, I'm just super horny right now and reading too much into these interactions,but, well.... we'll see. The woman from the party last week, has already sent me a friend request on fb and, essentially, asked me out! I'm not going to do anything about this, but, still, it's nice.

    In other news, I am, in spite of my party-going, still sick with whatever weird virus this is. So, since I'm in bed alone with my laptop I'll probably be posting here later to keep me from succumbing to temptation to break my streak here on day 58.
    Merton likes this.
  15. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    Hey Doofus Happy new year! Sorry your feeling poorly.
    IMO asking for that can only harm a relationship. I would rather just jerk off and get on with my day (or night) than complicate matters by interacting with another person. It will just muddy the waters in your relationship with your wife.
    I think another way women think of sex differently is that, as my wife has told me,a woman gives something of themselves to a man when engaging in sex. Where as a man is more physically attuned; and on an intuitive level that makes sense to me.
  16. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    Thanks boxer. You're right about other women and my wife. I'm just processing on here. Even if I thought she might go for it, I don't think I could even ask her, or, ultimately do anything about it. The time I cheated, I felt so wretched that I'm quite sure I'll never succumb to temptation again. I love my wife, but I wish we had sex more. And regardless of my physical need for it, it hurts that she doesn't want to. So, sometimes I still think about straying. PMO was a compromise, but I've decided it's no longer a healthy one. I'm doing my best to work through all this.

    Anyway, thank you so much for remaining active and supporting me - and others - here. It makes a big difference to me to know that someone is reading. It helps keep me accountable.
    Boxer17 likes this.
  17. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Doofus, you're doing great! You are marching toward self-love and respect, which is huge, my friend.

    I know you aren't totally serious about this, but here's my take:

    I would love to be privy to that conversation. "Hey, hon, what would you say to me banging other women?...with your permission of course!" :eek: As you well know what woman/wife hears is: "I don't love you, you aren't sexy, and you're old."


    You have to demand that she open her legs for you. The odd HJ, now and again, is fine, but PIV is the way. If we allow our wives to dictate the sex in the marriage then we are handing our balls over to them. At the beginning of my journey I decided that my wife is my bitch and she has to put out. It sounds stark, but for decades I was a pussy and so I needed to give myself clear instructions. I have weekly sex with the wife (not enough, but doable) and unless she's really sick she has to spread 'em. I tell her she's beautiful, that I'm horny, that's she's awesome, that I'm horny, etc. I never let her forget during the week that she has a duty to do in the bedroom. She tries to get out of it sometimes "my back hurts, I'm too busy," etc, but I don't accept these lame excuses. I've written a lot about this in my journal.

    Cheated on the wife twice...and got caught! Why we are together is still a mystery, but somehow we found love again. We are sex addicts as much as P addicts and so our brain is addled. I have been clean for over 2 1/2 years and I still lust after other women; even though I know it is a fucking useless endeavor. However, my brain is getting better, and I'm able to see with much more clarity the why of my addiction. To summarize: lack of self-love, lack of following through with my real passion, and a belief that I'm not up to muster. These three seeds started early on and so three years clean is not going to suddenly fix things. We must be here for the long-haul. My mantra on this forum has been: came for the boner, stayed for the enlightenment. PMO/M/cheating/sexting, etc is low-hanging fruit and that's why we pick it.

    Your journal is open and honest. I'm loving your energy and your desire to get well!
    Doofus likes this.
  18. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    Thank you so much Saville!

    I'm not so sure I'm ready to demand my wife spread em, but everything else you say is right on. Including, the fact that my wife has my balls. I'm fighting back against this in other ways, but I know it's a problem - probably the problem in my marriage. She makes unilateral decisions that are super important to both of us or to the boys without consulting me. I've essentially (but not actually...) left her over it. We've had huge fights about it. Her decisions are almost always impulsive and destructive and wrong. Things have gotten better along these lines, but she's very strong-willed, plus any fight about anything gets ramped up very quickly with her doing the ramping - it's her strategy. I hate to have these blow-outs with the boys around, which, usually, they were. So, I'd back down. I don't know....

    Anyway, you've hit a nerve about the power balance here. It's something for me to think more about and to work to address.

    Ad Astra, @Saville ! (I just realized that this forum is like twitter with the @... I'll be using it more with others more often now) Thank you all for reading and commenting.
  19. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I speak in absolutes because that's how I feel in my head. But, no, generally you wouldn't tell her to spread 'em. lol But, pressure must be brought to bear. It is a man's right to have sex with his wife, just as it is hers to have sex with you. Again, I never take the pressure off my wife about sex, and this is after previously not having had sex for almost ten years.

    Yes, it's her strategy, a way of maintaining the status-quo. The key to this, and it's in other men's journals as well, is not engaging. I don't engage with a two year old when they're misbehaving, so why would I argue with my wife when she is similarly acting up? My wife decides all kinds of things. I let her do it, but then do what I want, anyway. It's basically a form of transactional analysis.

    The power dynamic begins to shift significantly when we are not PMO'ing or M'ing. This alone is a huge step, so kudos. The next step is doing the shit a man should do, ie: all the "left" jobs around the house that seemed too bothersome, too many, and too boring to tackle. A little at a time and the paradigm shifts as we become the man. The woman seeing the man doing man stuff unconsciously begins to desire him more. I boil it all down to: me Tarzan, you Jane! As knuckle dragging as that sounds, it works! I do aspire to higher things, but it is at the elemental level where a relationship is born.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  20. Doofus

    Doofus Active Member

    Lots of stressors - some resolved, some not and I'm home alone and still kind of sick. So, here I am again trying to write my way out of temptation...

    One good piece of news is that my older boy, I'll call him N, came through his surgery this morning OK. It wan't serious surgery, but he was still under general anesthesia for a while... anything can happen. I didn't go with him because I'm sick and I've been helping my younger son, T, with his college applications. He had two due yesterday and he hadn't finished his essays. So I stayed to help him. His first day back to school was also this morning so that was another smaller reason to stay home. Still I feel guilty about not going for the surgery. On the other hand, I've always had a stronger relationship with N and this college application process has been a way to build a stronger relationship with T before he goes away to college next year. We had a pretty good time working on the essays (as good as you can have working on essays...) ; he's been talking to me more. So, staying home was also important and I'm glad I did.

    N might be in trouble academically. I've tried to write down the whole story here a few times, but, basically, the fact that he asked for a medical withdrawal last year is proof - at least in this one assistant dean's mind - that he's not really up to the snooty college he goes to (it's a public ivy). This past semester was his first back, and, apparently, he didn't do well. This could mean he's out of school! He was sick with what I have now and we had all the busyness of the holidays and so he and I haven't really talked. Ostensibly my wife will be finding out from him while they're there (the surgery was in the city where he goes to college. I'm very nervous about this.

    On the PMO front, I've been doing OK. Still resisting P and M, only O with wife, but, I've been clicking on links of attractive women models that pop up when I'm surfing. I'm not lingering, but the addiction still has a hold of me. It was pretty bad last night, due, I think to a combination of, strangely contradictory feelings - relief and happiness about completing the applications in time for T and anxiety about all things N - his surgery, their long drive to get to it, his schooling. Ugh. Anyway, writing here, as always, has helped me. I fell a bit better, or, at least feel like I should feel better than I do. I think getting my anxieties out and in front of me helps the rational side of my brain (small corner at the moment) see that my the things I have to fear are not as big as the fears themselves (FDR!). Anyway thanks to anyone reading my undedited ramblings here on day 60.
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