Let's heal some more

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Thebeg, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. Londoner

    Londoner Well-Known Member

    Wow, good luck mate! How long have you been seeing her?
     
  2. cjm

    cjm Well-Known Member

    Good luck. You know that's actually a very endearing story you've written there that i found quite touching myself

    It sounds like a simultaneously beautiful and terrifying situation to be in

    Of course we know what the rational decision would be, but life isn't always rational!

    :)


    Edit. just read that back, i have not been touching myself lol (well not today anyway lol)
     
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  3. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much for your support guys, I appreciate it immensely. @Londoner today is exactly five months since I've first met J (first of June).

    Yesterday I spent a lot of time calling my sister and friends, and talking to by buddy who stayed the night at my house because of his divorce situation. This morning my sister texted me that she had a clear feeling about the decision and asked me if I wanted to hear it. I replied that while I am still left and right about it, I notice my feelings leaning more towards "don't do it". She had felt the same, because of the unfavorable circumstances and the slim chance of making this work long term.

    Both my sister and my buddy happened to share an interesting point of view about my doubting. It could mean that deep inside I do carry a wish to become a father one day. And while the current situation may call for an abortion as the best option, a future situation with more favorable circumstances and a conscious decision to have a kid is still possible.

    My buddy also gave me some insightful things back about me personally. From a masculine/feminine perspective, my doubting is a feminine thing. It's what threw J off guard, since she was expecting to go for the abortion route before I went to her place. I sense that she is looking at me to guide us through this situation, and my doubting lacks the masculine strength to lead, make a decision and go for that. It touches on a much bigger theme in my life, which is my difficulty making important decisions with strength and conviction. It stems from my upbringing, having had a mother that always had a strong and leading opinion about my decisions, while my dad was silent. Even though I made some progress with this last year, it's clear I need to further develop it.

    Tonight my buddy will stay at my place again and I'll visit J tomorrow, I'll probably be texting and talking with her today as well. She's very curious about my thoughts and feelings.
     
  4. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    A lot has happened in the last few days. We haven't been able to make a decision yet. I spent the entire weekend at her place. From a perspective of keeping the child, I did a little "internship" and spent time with her and her kids. We even made a little trip to IKEA, which was my idea. I always loathed the idea of going to IKEA with a family. It was quite fun.

    But of course it's not the same as the real deal. I'm aware that keeping the child will turn my life upside down completely. No more chasing women, spending my time will be different. And I have never come across a story which is so complex, with her being not an official Dutch citizen, still married on paper, 3 kids from another man, etc. I have to be willing to let go of my life as I know it.

    From a logical point of view an abortion is the easy choice. But this isn't only logic. Also emotion and intuition. And those are all over the place.

    This whole situation also lead to more personal stuff, as I've come to know from my sister that my mom had a miscarriage before me. The last few years I've been carrying all sorts of weird feelings about having had a "lost brother", which apparently may be felt by a child on a very subconscious level. Sounds crazy I know. A friend of my sister works in this field and helps people with these kinds of unexplained feelings. She always felt part of a twin set, and eventually found out her brother didn't make it through pregnancy. How this plays into our current dilemma is something I don't know. It only makes it more complex. I will be working on this, but right now other things are most urgent.

    I've been crying multiple times. I feel like a lost child put in an impossible situation. When I'm with J everything feels strangely calm most of the time. She's a very loving person and I've had such good conversations. But that also makes it so much harder to make a choice...
     
  5. Fry2

    Fry2 Well-Known Member

    That's a tough situation, that's for sure, but I believe we get challenges in life we are equipped to handle, and so will you.

    I'd not look for the easy choice but for the one that will be the most fulfilling & the path worthy of going for you in the long run. Imagine you're 80 years old and you look back on your life. What would be in this life?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  6. cjm

    cjm Well-Known Member

    gosh, yes such a tough one, so many things to consider

    On the one hand, i think its pretty clear to see that rationally, abortion is the best option for you from a "selfish" point of view. The odds are almost stacked against you, her situation as you describe, your relationship situation together, your life situation and your stance on relationships/women. The list goes on

    On the other it raises so many almost moral and ethical questions. Even if you cant give the child an ideal family life does the kid deserve a chance anyway? Also you have to consider that its a possibility that this may be your "best" chance to actually have a kid, ever -you never know - its possible. Shes a loving woman and a good mother. You are attracted to her and you like her as a person. I think you are potentially good age for all the challenges of fatherhood, old enough to be self aware and have some wisdom - but not too old to be lacking in energy. Personally i would not want to be too old (insert arbitrary figure here, say 40 or 45+) to have a child.

    At the end of the day its a huge decision and risk, having the child could prove to be something of a disaster for you on a personal level, but sometimes lifes accidents can turn out to be very happy ones :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  7. Fry2

    Fry2 Well-Known Member

    Cjm summed it up perfectly. I believe every 'crisis' is also the possibility for something new and positive (whatever that might be for you) and ultimately it's always life that asks the questions (not the other way round). Maybe one day you'll look back and realize you've been granted a great chance.

    Btw I know a couple who were in a similar situation. They tried it together with the kid, but figured out a committed relationship won't work for him. So they broke up, after a year or so, but are still happy with the kid and they're still kind of living under the same roof, however going their own way in respect to dating and hobbies (and I believe they're still hooking up every now and then). Another friend of mine is in his 40ties, by now long divorced from his ex and pretty much living your current lifestyle - but he wouldn't want to miss his 10yo son for no money in the world.

    Bit unorthodox, and it's not society's norm yeah, but you seem like a guy who can devise his own way of lifestyle. Just saying if you want you'll find a way man.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  8. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Thanks Fry and cjm.

    Here's an update, it's heavy.

    Yesterday I meditated at home for an hour. I brought me back to myself. I wanted to rid myself of fear and doubt. Eventually I felt like the procedure would be the way to go, because of all the strings attached. I drove over to her place, while calling an organization that helps and advices with these tough decisions. She basically said we had to make a decision together, it was good to tell it to someone.

    When I got a J's house we talked, I felt centered and ready to take to lead. We meditated. J had some hesitation but eventually took out the three bottles with the liquids. We looked at them for a long while and talked, until we got up. Everything went slow and with a pauze. Lots of emotions. J put up some water to heat up to make a tea of the liquids. The bubbling sound of her water heater sounded like an impending doom. We cried. J prepared the tea with the liquids and said "once I drink this, there's no going back". I understood. We waited a long time before I picked up the cup and offered it to her. She hesitated and asked me if we should do it. I didn't know for sure, but from all logical standpoints it was the logical choice.

    She started drinking the poison. It was very hard to watch. I said "drink it fast". She did and put the cup away. We started crying like crazy. It was the worst moment of my life. What had we done? All sorts of thoughts entered my head. Was this the right thing? Was there a right thing? Was it better if she went to the bathroom and vomited out the stuff? My heart felt like being ripped out, as was hers. After lots of crying we went to bed. She had to take multiple doses over a few days time for optimal effect. The took another cup before sleeping. We cried more and went to sleep.

    This morning things felt unreal. We got up, had breakfast with her kids. She took another cup and got stomach cramps. It wasn't clear if it was just her stomach or that the liquid was getting effect. After she brought her kids to school I left for work. In the car I felt like a zombie.

    During noon we texted about our feelings. J had serious doubts if we made the right choice by going for an abortion. I texted her I felt the same. The amount of grief and pain that we felt should not be that strong. We started doubting our decision, but perhaps the herbal solution didn't work yet. J suggested making an appointment with a midwife to discuss how harmful the drinks could have been and I felt like that was a good thing to check. So the story continues.

    Over the last week I've had so many different feelings. It has been an enormous conflict inside me, on multiple occasions I realized I was going to be a dad, only for those feelings to make place for doubt the next moment. This emotional rollercoaster has beaten me down so hard.
     
  9. cjm

    cjm Well-Known Member


    ah dude! feel for ya

    I guess in this case there really isn't a right choice. either way you may find yourself wondering "what if"

    I guess once you have made your final decision, try and stick by it as there wont be any going back, either way

    if its a herbal solution, is it actually effective?
     
  10. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    As far as I've read, herbal based solutions have existed for ages. However, its appliance is tricky in terms of dosage ands what herb combinations should be used together.

    J hasn't had any bleeding. This particular combination should provoke a menstrual reaction. That is not the same as a miscarriage though. And J read that she should use a lot more for it to have effect.

    Honestly, last night was the worst night of my life. I don't want to experience that again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  11. cjm

    cjm Well-Known Member


    yes, i feel sad just reading about it

    well. it sounds like you may still have a choice then, possibly. Good luck bro
     
  12. Londoner

    Londoner Well-Known Member

    Definitely sad to read about, but there's no right or wrong answer about whether to have the baby.

    Why did you go for this herbal thing instead of going to the doctor or pharmacist?
     
  13. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    J wanted to try that first before going to a clinic for an abortion pill. The idea of the physical pain involved with abortion pills scared her. She wanted to try the herbal stuff first and if that didn't work, go for the clinic.
     
  14. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    The last few days felt really weird emotionally. Like I was in some weird desolate place after something terrible happened. My emotions were deadened after Monday. To me it felt like things are over, as we had made an attempt of doing the procedure ourselves. But the herbal stuff didn't do anything. Yesterday I got another pregnancy test and it said 3+ weeks pregnant.

    So much has happened in a week time. I had the shock of potentially being a father, spending time with her kids to feel what that's like, decide it's better not to keep it and try to do a procedure ourselves. With the 'newness' gone, I feel a bit more like my 'old self' and right now, it feels a bit easier to get my head to the option of going to a clinic and have an abortion, but J leans towards keeping it. So that puts us at two different spots. I guess it's part of the whole process of finding a decision that puts us on the same spot. It's very difficult though, as our situation is unique and there aren't stories that relate to ours.

    After all the heavy stuff having happened I thought it would be good to have some time 'off' to recharge and spend time together in a more uplifting way, so I spend the last two days at her house with the kids. Although we kept discussing, we didn't want to pressure ourselves to make a final decision hastily. Also, for me it's good to get a grasp of what her daily life with her kids is like. If we end up having a baby I want to be there for my kid.

    I'm at my own house now and it feels a bit weird to be here. At the same time one of my best buddies advised me to take time for myself to reflect and let things find their place in my mind.

    Even after a week it still feels unreal. One moment I'm writing stories about the dates I'm having, the next moment I'm potentially having a kid. Life is crazy.
     
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  15. TheScriabin

    TheScriabin Well-Known Member

    However this story pans out in your life, I think you’d make a pretty incredible dad.

    How are you doing today?
     
  16. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    I spent the weekend at my house. Being away from J and just doing my thing makes it feel so unreal and far away, yet I think about her being pregnant of me pretty much all the time. It is especially strange that her emotions will determine what the rest of my life will look like. It's the biggest decision of my life and J is in charge of making it. I hope that this will not cause resentment on my part at some point in time.

    I don't want to lose the life I was living. I was so happy and content, especially when it comes to women and sex. Yesterday A reached out to me, asking if I was still alive. When she reaches out she wants to hang out and have sex, and I feel the same. She's sexy and good company. But now what, do I tell her? Should I just hang out with her and tell her later when things are more set? She'll probably wants to know about our plans to celebrate NYE in London, which at this moment doesn't feel like an option.

    On a positive note, yesterday I had a surge of productivity. I did a big chunk of planning for a project, it was amazing. Hopefully I can keep this momentum up.
     
  17. cjm

    cjm Well-Known Member

    I was thinking similarly, after your last post which suggested she was starting to lean towards keeping the child. If that's the case their is only so much you can do i guess. Keep us posted - hope it works out ok whatever happens
     
  18. Londoner

    Londoner Well-Known Member

    The three of us should definitely meet up again if you're in London for NYE.
     
  19. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Yesterday I felt miserable. Now I fully understand those stories about guys feeling completely powerless in the decision making process of an unwanted pregnancy. I am literally subjected to the female emotion when it comes to the biggest decision in my life. It makes me feel like I'm a sperm donor and dad figure and have no say in any of this. I never believed in broken family situations, and now I'm in one even before the birth. It basically forces me into a 'relationship' with J, which also doesn't feel like that's the way it's supposed to go.

    I also understand why men eventually decide they don't want to take part in any of it and just disappear. Because they don't want to be part of a situation they are forced in. Although I don't feel like doing that, I understand it. There will be more decisions to be made, and J apparently is an anti-vaccine person. Being a guy the comes from science, logic and reason, I don't believe the conspiracies about vaccinations. If this also would turn into a decision making process where I have no say because she also didn't vaccinate her other children, I may start to question what my role will be. I don't want to be some sort of puppet dad because I happen to be good and fun with kids.

    Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

    On the upside, I'm more busy with work and it feels good to take care of stuff. Also hitting the gym a lot.
     
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  20. cjm

    cjm Well-Known Member

    how are things between you and J?
     

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