Learning to be myself

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Thelongwayhome27, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    Well I guess that's not a bad response. It is hard to imagine that the inclusion of PMO in your life is doing you any favors. But it sounds like you're in a position where if PMO was eliminated as a possibility entirely, not too terribly much would change.

    I have to admit I'm visiting your thread a little less as time goes on. With most of these journals, you can see a lot of insights and progress as the posts accumulate. Your posts, on the other hand, often (usually?) make it sound like you're running in circles. You just are too concerned with the here and now. You need to dig deeper into your issues to think of the changes you'll need to implement to get your life back on track. I know I have said the last two things on here before but I think they are still true. Your posts read like the pieces in the life you're trying to make don't fit, and you're just smashing them together to try and force them to, over and over, every week. I don't know if this will help you, but I think you should try and sit down for a few minutes, without distractions, and think this over. Your comments have helped me in the past, and I would like to do the same for you if I can. Your post #256 showed a little bit of promise. Maybe even some time off from this site would benefit you in breaking out of the cycle.
  2. TrueSelf

    TrueSelf Active Member

    I think another issue with the "cutting down" approach is the time that you would still waste thinking about P or thinking about using P. I think the time squandered in the regard could be really significant.
    Merton likes this.
  3. Merton

    Merton Well-Known Member

    I can totally relate to this. I seem to be completely unable to keep porn down to a minimum. Time and time again I tell myself that it will be only 10 minutes and then I surface 1-2 hours later.
  4. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    Many people have asked this same question about moderation. For addicts, there is no moderation, period.
  5. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    To be honest, your post angered me initially. But you're probably right, at least partly.

    The here and the now, with all it's anxiety production, has always overwhelmed me. But this is just another excuse. Or even if it's a valid explanation, what is even the point of saying it ?

    To be fair, when I'm on a streak, relapsing, vowing to get back on a new streak, lapsing again, and so on - I think about porn 24/7. I'm never as obsessed with Porn, with quitting Porn, and all the fear of using it again and how that will mess me up, then when I try to quit porn. That's what I hate about trying to stay off Porn and how it becomes an incredible obsession. Many people on here report this.

    If I would be able to moderate I would actually think less about P. I would do it and get over with it. No guilt, no shame, no relapse.

    The problem is that I don't stick to the limits so that's why moderation doesn't work. It leads back to more compulsive use over time.
  6. occams_razor

    occams_razor Well-Known Member

    Hey Johnny, I wonder if you could say a bit more about your thoughts on ADHD and coping with it and so on.

    I understand you're leaving the forum soon as well, so best of luck with that.
    Johhny Bravo likes this.
  7. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Sure, what would like to know?
  8. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Funny this is mentioned right now. I'm curious as well to learn more about ADD/ADHD.

    Always thought my underlying issue, if there is one that is purely psychological, would be bipolar (type 2) - the softer type, with more depression and sometimes hypo-mania.

    Maybe the underlying issue is ADHD after all. I don't know.

    It's funny, I just had a ''binge'' :( that lasted about 2 hours. I was ''clean'' for the prior 5 days. (note that I've totally promised myself to stop counting, it's not helping me).

    Before the binge I felt so much unrest, unease, despair. My thoughts were driving me mad with anxiety and doubt. I literally was alone at my place a few times with my head between my hands like those classic pictures of ''depression''.

    I finally gave in and now, not long after, I feel so much more ''normal''. I feel calm and ready to either do some chores (peacefully) or anything I can think of that is leisure seems pleasant (reading, watching a movie). I'm feeling mellow, relaxed, and life is bearable again. The only problem is the shame of ''acting out'' (which kills any incentive to meet other humans).

    Before the binge, I was uptight and I didn't feel like doing anything. Everything sounded boring, or filled with despair.

    Now, the only problem is the shame of having been on a binge and the regret of losing 5 ''clean days'' like this.

    There is no feeling to socialize, because I guess I'm both content alone right now and also perhaps because of the shame...

    Is this PMO binging just self medication .... ?

    It's like my body has developed over the years a way to medicate that goes, unfortunately, against some of my values (it just seems I don't find it very honorable to PMO and be a loner ...) - for all I know what gets me so high on this ''drug'' is precisely the fact that it's against my values ? Like those people who get a high by harming themselves ... ? It's funny even how some of the stuff that turns me on is stuff I thought and felt was very shameful as a child.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  9. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    As I was saying in my last post, I felt calmer after the binge I had earlier today. But I was still disappointed and was regretting it. It was a mix of calm but also sadness. The anxiety from earlier (described in my last pot) had gone, at least for a while, and I was just left thinking "how can I fix all this" ? Because surely I still want to stop all this, I still think I can be a healthier individual. Somehow, I still have hope.

    I sat down in the shower for a moment (I do this often when I "relapse") and was just like "man what can I do ... ?". My mind calmed down luckily instead of going into some kind of dramatic melodrama and I got back up and decided to finish the shower and try to get on with my day calmly.

    A part of me, the addiction, wanted more dopamine, more escape. I wanted, at that moment to get weed and perhaps some alcohol, like some beers or some wine. And to just watch a movie because I had the evening to myself without any plans.

    If I would have gone to get the weed, I would have been high soon enough, and I'm pretty sure soon I would have been PMOing some more. Then once I would have gotten tired of PMOing (somehow this is possible !) I then would have smoked more and finally watched a movie. Then maybe another PMO or not, maybe just a pass out. And then, because I had weed, I would have probably been high for the next 2 weeks until I would finish it. Unless I would throw it away in a fit of self disgust (for example in the morning). But probably I wouldn't have had.

    Thankfully, after the PMO binge today, my rational mind reminded myself all this, and said that even if I PMOed, had a binge, I don't need to go down even more in the rabbit hole. And that's dangerous. It's just not a responsible thing to do.

    I made myself instead a good dinner. I had not eaten since the morning.

    What also helped me in not go down the rabbit hole deeper is imagining myself a few hours later, maybe with less weed cravings, and calmer. Satisfied I didn't do it. And it's kind of what happened. Now I'm happy I didn't go for it.

    I have also not PMOed more. Even if there are urges. There is that "why not ?" I'm already in the pit I can do it now and it won't hurt ... But I'll try my best to not do it.

    Maybe I'll go for a run later on.

    I also read through Gil's old journal, some parts of it. I honestly relate to so much.

    In my case, it seems I have 3 serious foe's : sexual compulsion, need to get drunk, need to smoke weed.

    They all work together to create the "addict" in me.

    I have body issues. I'm not ugly, I may be average. But I have body issues because of when I was a teen. I was a late bloomer and grew up later then most kids. I felt like girls, whom I was attracted to, saw me as a little kid. It hurt so much back then I can not tell you. It has probably been internalized as shame and now I always feel unmanly next to a woman. To think that I can make a woman hot is hard for me to believe. So I write myself off usually. With nice guy behavior. Or if a girl tells me she's attracted to me I'll think shes just being nice or crazy.

    I also had critical parents. They were loving. But they were critical of me. I think they shot down my self esteem and didn't have the tools to build a healthy relationship. When I was going through a lot of pain, as a teen, I had no one to turn to. And my parents were also kind of absent. Not to mention, they were fighting a lot. And I saw some things a child shouldn't see. My mom was absent, working a lot. Although she loved me. And my dad was a little bit emotionally abusive and invasive with his criticism. To this day our relationship is strained. But I love them. They are all I have.

    I watched the news later on this evening (when if I would have taken the wrong turn after the shower I would have been high and in even worst waters) - so good thing, a lil calmer watching the news - anyhow, I was watching these news and how the world is messed up. How many people in pain. And I was like man .... and I have problems ? I'm always complaining about my life, "crying around" .... and look at these folks. Maybe I should watch the news more often. It would give me a better idea that I have many many things to appreciate. And this would give me the courage to work for my life. To try to do better with what has been given to me.
    TrueSelf and -Luke- like this.
  10. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    Remember, the product of the addiction is the point of the addiction. (If you get relaxation and shame from an addiction, the drive to relapse is caused by a desire for both of those things.)
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  11. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    It is good to put things in perspective and be able to see the chances you have, but you should not compare yourself to others. Your struggles and feelings are real and deserve attention.
    Living and Thelongwayhome27 like this.
  12. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    You made some good choices in not letting this turn into a binge and come here to share. We need to learn to share. Here on this board and with the people around us.
    Thelongwayhome27 and TrueSelf like this.
  13. -Luke-

    -Luke- Well-Known Member

    You wrote you felt a lot of anxiety and unease before the relapse and felt better and more calm afterwards (and at the same time still felt the shame ). Do you think that it would help to just "rub one out" without porn in a situation like that? Have you ever tried that?

    I too noticed some anxiety and unease when I'm on a longer streak that disappeared after an orgasm. When porn isn't involved there's no feeling of shame afterwards.
    Living and Thelongwayhome27 like this.
  14. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    Makes sense to me. I also read in 'No more mister nice guy' that masturbation without fantasy (or sex with yourself) is a good way to overcome sexual shame. I put this book away for too long. It is a bible to me.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  15. occams_razor

    occams_razor Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  16. occams_razor

    occams_razor Well-Known Member

    Anything that comes to mind really, although I don't really care about ADHD meds.

    What helps you in this regard? What do you do differently now? You mentioned the theory that ADHD is a reaction to trauma. Do you feel you've healed from trauma to some extent? If so what helped you do that?

    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  17. TrueSelf

    TrueSelf Active Member

    I just listened to a Porn Free podcast episode and he said the number one sign of a relapse is isolation. When we feel the need to withdraw from others and turn inwards porn use is much more likely. This made a lot of sense to me.
  18. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much for all the tips and support guys. This is heart warming.

    I don't use this place well when I become arrogant and dishonest on it, as I do in real life too - but when I'm more sincere, honest - I can see all the good of this place. The support, the people on here.

    Sometimes I open up my heart, then it closes back a few days or hours later.

    I'm happy to say I got the control back yesterday. Instead of going down the weed and alcohol and more compulsive sexual acting out path I saw before me (which was very enticing at that point) - I made the good choice of (not going to get those elements and instead ...) making myself a good dinner (which took some effort cause I really didn't feel like it much), I watched the news calmly (as mentioned last night), I read Gil's old journal which gave me courage, I came here to write what felt like a more sincere post (talking a bit more about myself), I went for a run in the evening, worked out briefly but intensely, meditated for 20 mins, had another shower and went to bed reading a good book. By doing this I didn't go further down in chaos and danger and have put myself in a better position today.

    I'm lucky to have some social stuff planned today, tomorrow and Saturday. Tonight is a fitness class and the next two days it's some sport stuff with some buddies. If I would have gotten the weed yesterday I probably would have entered an incredible weed binge for the next 2 weeks and I would have canceled all this social stuff. I would have then felt the guilt of it and my conscience would be telling me "see how you're making the wrong choices and deliberately messing up your life instead of trying" - which would have cause more pain which I would have smoked even more, got drunk, went into more compulsive sexual acting out, in ordre to forget and numb. Until nothing is left and I would be left with the motivation to get back up (but from much lower) or, worst, from that place have serious panic attacks. Because this is all playing with fire actually.

    @Ereignis - I guess that makes sense. I wonder why I'm subconsciously desiring shame though. I guess something in me wants to suffer. Maybe I wanna punish myself. I'll try to remember that the product of the addiction is the end goal of the addiction, it's well pointed out. Maybe next time I'm under cravings thinking of this can help me disconnect.

    @Gilgamesh - Thanks a lot man. It felt good to come on here and write yesterday. I felt humble and more honest. Going through your old journal, last night, was inspiring. It gave me courage. I have a problem with sharing, and I think it's linked to humbleness and ego (in the ''bad" sense). As soon as I'm going better I lose my humbleness and start sharing less, being more duplicitous. When I hit rock bottoms I find humbleness again. Yesterday I has some vivid epiphanies, in the shower after the binge, of how I'm giving up on my own life by all my complaining. Or by indulging in all the cravings for sex, drugs, alcohol. Just playing with fire when I cannot really afford to anymore. You're right also about not comparing myself to others (on the news) but it's true that it gives me a bit of a reality check and it helps me get out of my own "little world of suffering".

    @-Luke- I've often thought of doing the ''MO reboot" but once I get on the streak I get obsessed with it and rather go hard mode, feeling that if I MO I spoil it. Then once the cravings go really high and the fantasizing sets in, I relapse to PMO instead of go to that MO. I think once or twice in a streak I MOed, and then 2 or 3 days later I was back to the PMO as well. I haven't tried this in a while though and maybe now I have the skills to go this path. Maybe I can allow myself to MO without fantasy right off the start, in order to avoid getting that obsessive ''hard mode rigid perspective'' on. I can't remember last time I MOed without P ...

    @occams_razor - Thanks for the healing code link. I'm gonna check it out and maybe I'll do the exercises today. I'm pretty humbled and desperate at the moment so even if it "sounds crazy" I'm willing to give it an open minded honest try. Thanks man. And I was also curious about the ADHD and childhood PTSD link that @Johhny Bravo mentionned. Speaking of, Gabor Maté is really interesting and I'm glad I found him.

    @TrueSelf - Yea makes sense to me as well ... Isolation, boredom, fantasizing. Anxiety, depression, sadness, despair, fear. And the PMO waiting to help out. Isolation and loneliness are hard ones. Thanks for dropping by.

    I discovered this song last night (A Different Age by Current Joys) and I've been listening to it a lot since. There is something haunting about it. The simple and hypnotic tempo, the way the lyrics are sung, the video. The pain in the voice.

    I like it when he says : "And I wish I could change, but I'll probably just stay the same"

    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    Living likes this.
  19. occams_razor

    occams_razor Well-Known Member

    Great. If that link I gave you doesn't give you enough info, there's plenty of other stuff about the healing code online.

    Gabor Maté is pretty cool alright.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  20. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    About the suffering: I totally agree with @Gilgamesh. We all suffer in our own way, but we all suffer. It's no use to compare your suffering to that of someone else. The fact that there's always someone that lives in circumstances that may seem worse to yours doesn't mean your suffering is nothing. We all know the sarcastic use of the term 'first world problems', but the fact is that these problems can be really bad in the first world. The problems are not better or worse, they are simply different. I think it's good to become more aware of the suffering of others, people that suffer in a different way and people that suffer in a similar way as you do. One way to do that by using guided meditations that focus on the commonality of suffering. What that does (at least in my experience) is that you put your own suffering in perspective, but without telling yourself that you have no right to suffer. Because you do have every right to suffer.

    I also agree with what @-Luke- suggested, but that's something that you have to do for the right reasons and most of all you should be okay with it. I recently did this when my sexual tension was rather high and fantasies kept coming up. At this one moment I decided that my problem is not with a 5 minute masturbation and that I should be okay with that, so I masturbated and I have not noticed any negative effect at all. What I did notice was the calmth afterwards and the fantasies going away. But like I said, as long as you have negative feelings towards masturbation, it's not an option. If you masturbate and feel like you failed, you feel ashamed, you feel closer to PMO, yeah, that will likely lead to a slip. And that's defenitly something that's tricky with a forum like this: we tell each other and ourselves all these things that we will believe because we repeat them all the time. Ofcourse not everybody on here is against masturbation, but reading all those negative things about masturbation, it becomes really hard to see it as something harmless. Perhaps it's a bit meta, but I think it's beneficial to our reboots to also be aware of things like that.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.

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