Learning to be myself

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Thelongwayhome27, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for all the replies and feedback guys.

    - Keep doing more of the same but with slight adjustments, guided by the idea that slowly I'm learning and getting better at improving my life (NoFap included). Keep trying ... Been doing this for a while though and getting tired of it.
    - Make a/some radical change(s) guided by the idea that my life is such a mess the only thing that can (still) fix it is a radical solution. Moving somewhere far away and trying to restart my life over there. I think this is more fantasy then reality though because I lack will power to actually plan things out, I think the only way I could do this would be the "mad way" of running away on a whim and then improvising along (highly risky path which will probably lead to regret, homelessness, mental hospital or who knows .... enlightenment and actually starting a new life, a point from which I'll say this is when I changed things. The life I had before is only a faint memory and dream by now.). Plus I have debts where I live. I can't just run away anymore like I was 19.
    - Become even more strict on myself : start going to some SAA meetings even if the idea scares the crap out of me. Lock down stronger on the no alcohol path or any drugs. Basically become a puritan. Learn to let go of seing all these people have fun out there and let go of my desire to live my life in a fun way. In other words ignore what my heart wants. The risk I see with this path is that it could be a form of denial (constructing the false identity of being a recovered addict), having to live as an addict for the rest of my life (like those people who go to 12 steps all they're life), and who knows make things worst actually, just like I feel that the more I try to stop PMO the worst the addiction is getting (self fulfilling prophecy of the addict identity).
    - Keep fighting the social anxiety by exposing myself to unpleasant situations
    - Never try to fight the social anxiety anymore. Accept it fully. Never go to someplace I don't feel like it. Don't care if the social anxiety will get worst (from what conventional therapy claims). On the other hand, some have claimed they were set free when they stopped trying.
    - Dedicate all my energies to improving with girls because this is what my heart desires. Do this until I make it, once I make it realize this is a false path (as many claim) and renounce peacefully to it. Or once I make it realize this isn't unhealthy and it was a good thing to seek because following your heart is the way to go, everything else is denial. Keep meeting girls until I have enough experience in order to settle with ONE without regretting all the others.
    - Go fully MGTOW. I can't get girls. So screw it. I'm gonna go read a book.

    Being in a confused and pessimistic mood right now I don't see other paths.

    @Johhny Bravo - Thanks for your long reply. It sounds a bit like moral relativism. There is no good or bad. It's just being free or not. Freedom lies in the idea that you take full responsibility for your life. Problem is, if there is actual Good or Bad in this Universe (objectively) and such a thing as a "conscience" (in the moral sense), then it's not only about accepting your choice fully (stealing the light saber and enjoying it) but it's also about making the right choice. Otherwise you're lying to yourself that "you don't care" but things will catch you up sooner or later. At some point we'll have to pay the bill so to speak. Also, without even thinking about the morality of good and bad, what about the consequences of our choices ? Do you mean to say that if we choose a path and fully commit to it it can only lead to a good place ? And that the only source of problems is our doubt in which ever path we take ? Could be could be ....
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
    titan_transcendence likes this.
  2. Professor Chaos

    Professor Chaos Active Member

    Hey man.

    Damn I feel for you. I have been in a similar pit before. I think the fantasies about uprooting your life or making sweeping changes are all part of a relapse.

    You get this massive flood of testosterone and restlessness and emotion all at once.

    You double down on your recovery and swear, never again. However for myself I have found that when I am

    - browsing for cute or hot pics online
    - fantasies about another life
    - reliving past events differently.
    - creating elaborate (sometimes sexual) movies in my head.

    It’s all part of the same wiring in my brain. Wanting to be somewhere else than where I am. You can shorten that down to just ‘wanting’.

    I think that is why meditation is a key part of recovery. Calm down your mind and calm down the wanting.

    I wouldn’t make any major life choices right now. Just focus on today. Focus on being clean today. Try to get back on the horse and remember, it might not seem like it, but you are doing really well.

    Every day you get back from this habit. Every hour you win back for yourself is a total victory. It’s a battle of increments.

    Hang in there.

  3. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Quick tip.

    Get off ALL INTERNET for half or two thirds of the day.

    Makes quitting super easier.

    Alot of this is addiction to any form of stimulation. If you learn the magic of solitude, youll wonder why or how quitting was so difficult.

    A man that goes a month with zero computer and internet will heal a ton of mental health issues just by doing that.

    Porn? Pfft. Walk in the park if you do one month zero internet. Respects.
    Thelongwayhome27 and Merton like this.
  4. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival


    Resd your post. Will respond tomorrow. Much handshake for your honesty to share.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  5. Merton

    Merton Well-Known Member

    This is a great idea. I have also come to believe that porn addiction is a form of internet addiction.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  6. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Yes the two go almost identical together.

    Reducing internet by about 70% has unreal genuine results. Thats where the so called 'super powers' lie; get off the net, switch off the phone, less music, no stimulation, no reading, no 'business'n no TV.....Just sit in a room with a pen and paper. Or go for a walk with no music and no fitness agenda. Or go fishing with little ambitiousness.

    We live in a society where downtime is discouraged and not allowed.

    If we learn to reflect again and give ourselves daily solitude, do many of the problems man faces will be solved.

    Depression and loneliness are signals for solitude despite all the myths.

    Instead we are bombared more with aggressive messages such as "take pills" or "get more exercise."

    Nope. Some genuine solitude (no phone or net) for one hour a day will heal many anxieties.

    If one keeps this up and gives three hours daily reflection, you will become of the most intelligent humans on the planet.

    Not exaggerating.
    Living, o2bfree and Thelongwayhome27 like this.
  7. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I would add even self help. Sometimes getting lost reading all types of advice, left and right saying this and that. Self-help, in certain doses and done in a methodical way can help, but it can also become another way to get a dopamine hit. I've often noticed how after a binge I right away open a new tab and start looking for self help articles. It's the classical method of using "recovery" as another "drug" once the drug of choice cannot be used again for a while because it has been over-consumed.

    Too much self help literature can also drown your own inner voice. Can bring even more confusion to a confused person. It takes courage but sometimes we have to put even self help aside and just go look inside for some answers, for some grounding. However, when one is in deep despair though, we cannot really blame him for looking for any kind of help and even escape. At that point what can he do ?

    Like you, I have this intuition that a person can find real truth, real answers, only in himself. That's why also sometimes I prefer a pen and paper journal then this place. Although the support here is special and I feel it is/can be a real part of healing.
    Living likes this.
  8. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 1

    Here is to a fresh start.

    I feel a bit better today. Yesterday I was confused, angry and discouraged.

    I really appreciate the replies I have gotten on here. It's great to have a place to express these experiences, as I don't have anyone I feel I can talk to about this at the moment. Carrying this alone is difficult.

    Speaking of which, I had a brief thought that maybe the way out is to own all of this. To own all this addiction. All these things I have done and feel shame for. That until I don't own it I will keep relapsing. It will be like trying to lie about never having this problem. But what does it mean, then, to own it. I don't think it means to go out there and scream at everyone I'm an addict. But maybe it means that if I am in a certain groupe where people act as if this would be the most shameful thing to do, to have the courage at that moment to say "Well I've done it. I still do it. I'm not proud of it. But I do it. It's who I am." Instead of acting as if I agree with them and would never do such a thing myself. If said people are disgusted by me and never wanna talk to me again then okay.

    Another thought I had is that I've associated, a lot, shame with sex (neurons that fire together wire together). This may be why I feel strong shame to express myself in a non platonic way with a girl when I am "myself".

    But whatever, at least for now. Let's focus on action and less on thinking for a bit. On speculation.

    I agree with @Professor Chaos. And thank you for your input man. I should not take any hasty decisions when I am in this mood. Running away is a fantasy that comes to me when I'm in my most hopeless and depressive moments. When I came back here in January I was in a similar place and I was talking about this then too. Once I get to a better place I don't feel this urge as much. But there are things I need to change, however this change should be made from a calm place. I also understand and agree with the "desire" equation. Right now I am totally unsatisfied with my lot. That is why I am angry, confused, down. I've been getting back to mindfulness meditation more in the last days. I'm trying to do it twice a day for 20 mins. I have a lot of self chatter thought at this moment. I often spend my whole sitting just thinking about the PMO problem. Also, I was reading the early parts of your journal last night man. All the stuff you wrote 5 years ago. Some great stuff in there. You sure have fought your battles. I related so much to the rationalizations you were sometimes making after relapsing. I have the exact same pattern to question the no PMO path at that point.

    @Johhny Bravo - Great insight about the internet. I'm gonna do this. I'll start today. Lately I've been getting so many dopamine hits here and there (on top of the PMOs). I've been staying up late, watching movies, binging on snacks, surfing the net a lot, been lost left and right. Need to get back to myself. To my solitude in a good way. Need to go in there and come back stronger. I have to try to correct the foundation. To find some answers within.

    Last night I was in a semi state of misery while trying to sleep. My mind was obsessed with the PMO problem. It was running a constant dialogue in the background. I managed to fall asleep though but was awakened during the night. I thought it was the morning already. What woke me up were two female voices (20s or 30s) talking and giggling on the other side of my wall. In my obsessed state of half hornyness (the addictive kind) and half disgusted by all my falls lately I was hearing this. I was picturing myself having a threesome with the sources of those 2 voices yet here I was alone in my bed and unable to sleep, tormented by my sexual problems and loneliness lol. It seems the Universe has a sense of humor. When I looked at my watch I realized it wasn't the morning but only 2h46 AM.
  9. Doper

    Doper Member

    Most emotional pain comes from not living congruently with how one wants to live their life. I read your post #201 yesterday, but didn't want to comment as I don't want to give too much unsolicited advice, but can't help myself. That post, in my opinion, tells you everything you need to know about what YOU feel is the right path, and the wrong path, for you.
    The absolute best way that I have found to stop myself from relapsing is having social commitments that force me to stay away from porn because it makes me feel awful and gross for days after I use it, and since I don't want to be acting like a weirdo around people, whenever I get the urge to relapse, I remember that I have to be meet some people somewhere, etc....The opposite of this would be further withdrawing socially and giving up on meeting girls. I have found no other goals and obligations keep me away from porn, only this.
    I agree 100% with JohnnyBravo that porn and internet addiction are one and the same. I've noticed I NEVER fiend for porn if I'm not in front of my computer.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  10. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival


    You need to give yourself a pat on the back, and give yourself a reward, and acknowledge you are a good dude with a good heart. It's alright man, you're doing your best with where you are right now with what you have; what more could be asked? You're doing good enough because at least you are:
    1. Making effort
    2. Being honest.

    What more could God ask for? (please note I'm not religious, I use that word existentially. But if he did exist, again, what more could he ask from you?)

    I feel @Doper has some golden points about doing what you feel is correct or feels good. Fuck other people, and yes, that means having the ability to selectively ignore even what I or other users would say if it doesn't resonate with you. Check inside what you need to do or attitude is required, and then follow those orders your heart gives you.

    Absolutely, solitude will give you those hints. Just be prepared if you have never done proper solitude before, it will take the first 40 minutes or hour for your brain to relax and settle. After this 'buffer zone' time period, you will have magic insights that will make tons of sense to yourself. But you must have the courage to wait and stick out the first hour. Don't say to yourself you are wasting time, or it doesn't work, or whatever....Stick out the first hour.

    - no phone (airplane mode)
    - not internet
    - no music
    - no activities or chores initially
    - no talking with friends
    - no interruptions for the hour
    - you can sit, or walk, but don't lie down
    - pen and paper is fine to record insights; just don't get carried away writing things to kill time for no reason

    Few people in our day and age are gifted with the beauty of solitude. It is no their fault, it is the consequence of our phone culture.

    And don't worry about 'getting urges' during the solitude period. If an urge does arise, it will kill itself off naturally quite fast.

    Here is some more (1 minute read) ideas on solitude: And yes it works, I do it every day or every second day. It is a drug like no other. You will feel ridiculously sharp and frosty after solitude.

    "It is better to live your own destiny full of wrong choosing and mistakes, than to live a perfect existence that is an imitation of somebody else."- Bagvat Gita.

    Also @Thelongwayhome27

    You mentioned shame around sex and women.....this is worth exploring.

    I had similar thing due to my upbringing and Catholic church shaming. Hence that's why I believe I got into watching porn, because having a penis was seen as the most horrific thing in the world.

    Explore this, and let old ideas drop off. Good luck, and do the solitude method if you feel inspired. Just stick past the first hour, and if you wish to continue from there do it. It will HEAL YOU.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  11. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    This is a great comment. It's one that digs deep.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  12. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Yes all self help is bullshit.

    It is a drug.
  13. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    Perhaps it's good to realize that getting where you want also takes a bit of luck and chance. For example the point where I am right now is not somewhere I could have been a year ago. My situation was different than, my mindset was different than, everything was different. Doing something 'the right way' does not mean you'll get there, but it does increase your chances of getting there. And the further you get into that the more your chances increase. So don't get too dissappointed when your efforts don't pay off, even after a long while. Instead value the small improvements you experience and know that somewhere, someday your efforts will pay off.

    I totally agree with @Johhny Bravo about solitude by the way. Last week I was listening to this item on the radio on boredom and it's benefits. We like to see being bored as something negative and therefore grab for our phones or remote controls whenever we get that itch that we should have something to do, but sometimes it's good to just take a step back from all the fuzz of life and just allow yourself to do nothing. Not just because it's a well-needed rest for your mind, but also because it can spark your creativity or make you more productive.

    About self-help: self-help done in the right way can really be beneficial, but indulging in self-help books/podcasts/fora etc can easily make you feel 'broken' to the point where self-help actually becomes self-hinder. I agree with @Thelongwayhome27 that that's definitly something to be a little bit careful with.
  14. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Yes I agree with your idea on self help

    Sorry I should have explained my point further. You have summarised the core of what I believe in.

    On solitude: i never feel boredom with solitude.


    I feel boredom when i stimulate myself too much with internet, music, talking, food etc....

    Boredom and loneliness are ques for me to do solitude.

    After solitude, any boredom and loneliness vanish for days. Inspiration and spirit returns. I feel healthy once more.

    I wish to have a romance.
  15. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Yes I agree with your idea on self help

    Sorry I should have explained my point further. You have summarised the core of what I believe in.

    On solitude: i never feel boredom with solitude.


    I feel boredom when i stimulate myself too much with internet, music, talking, food etc....

    Boredom and loneliness are ques for me to do solitude.

    After solitude, any boredom and loneliness vanish for days. Inspiration and spirit returns. I feel healthy once more.

    I wish to have a romance. Is it too much to ask for love?

    Or if I admit to myself "i want to be loved by a woman" am I judged as girly or needy or going to be given advise i didnt ask for?

    Men here say they want to quit porn.

    Do they say they wish to be loved by a woman?

    That is what I want. Not sex with a woman. Love with a woman.

    Yes cheesy and poetic and romantic. I dont give a fuck. Thats what i want in life.

    Any man that tells you that love is a farce and a myth, such as PUA assholes, I wish to kill them.

    I worked professionally as a PUA. And can tell you, dear YBOP users,

    Love is real and attainable. That is my word and honour. That is why I quit porn and my motivation to keep going. It was because I wanted a woman to love me.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  16. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    That's a bit of a paradox and I actually think we are on the same page here. Yes, we do get bored when we overstimulate ourselves with scrolling on 9gag or searching PornHub for that ultimate video, but it's often a cycle that starts when we try to get away from boredom in the first place. It's like every instant we get even the slightest notion that we are wasting away our precious time with daydreaming and such we grab our phones, put on the tv, pull out some food etc (which in turn is often a waste of time as well). It's like we need to have constant stimulants. We went from jolts per minute to jolts per second. If we want to get away from the boredom you describe we have to stop fighting the initial boredom I meant in my previous post. We have to learn to accept that our need to do something stimulating is okay and that we don't have to run for our phones whenever we feel like that. And when you look for solitude in the way you describe I think that's exactly what you are doing. It's all about becoming okay without that constant flow of stimulants and in my experience the further you get with that the more you start to pick up all these beautiful simple things life has to ever and the less bored (in the way you described) you will get.
  17. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    I want to have a beer with you and share the tranquility.

    Too bad we are on the internet. Ah the joy of real life friendship and comradary.

    I notice in Game of Thrones Aria and Jaime both have i-phone 8?

    Yeah remember the scene she texted King Joffery over whatsapp? And she liked his comment?

    ....jokes. There is no internet or smartphones in game of thrones.

    Thats why those characters are intelligent.
    Thelongwayhome27 and Living like this.
  18. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 2

    @Johhny Bravo, @Living, @Doper, @Ereignis - I can't write much of a reply right now but thank you greatly for the replies on here guys.

    What Johnny Bravo and Living have written about the healing potential of solitude resonates with me strongly. There is not much I can add to what you guys wrote. I totally agree and feel inspired by what was said. It's like something I seem to have forgotten lately. It's given me some direction. So thank you. I've practiced it today and yesterday. I also really liked the article that was linked.

    I feel I reconnected a bit with my values today and have gotten back a glimpse of who I think I can be. Of the qualities I wanna develop as an individual. It's something I may have forgotten a bit lately. I hope this is a good sign of what could be a better foundation.

    Practiced some solitude today. Done some long meditations too. I had the day free. On some moments, doing the solitude and not getting any stimulation, it was getting quite uncomfortable. Partly sad and partly very anxious. At times I was having small panic attacks. I think it's what's underneath. The Self. I've also gone back to journal with pen and paper, something I've done less in the last weeks since I started posting more on here. Paper journal with the self has it's advantages too.

    I realize I need to become more honest with myself and more honest in my relationship to others. I don't necessarily do it intentionally, it's quite automatic. But a lack of authenticity, of honesty - masks - towards myself and towards others always come on sooner or later. Especially when I'm not in the dumps. And I think this lack of being honest with myself is at the root of my addictions.

    On a more concrete level I socialized a bit today, towards the evening. Different from the usual group of friends I hang out with. Different vibe, which was nice. I also have some social plans for the weekend. I'm gonna try to be moderate with the alcohol and try to enjoy the connection and not the drinking.

    The good thing is I'm in a better head space then I was the last few days. I've gotten some hope and motivation back. Maybe a bit of clarity. Hopefully I can integrate some lessons from this last fall and build a better foundation for the change I'm seeking. It's still fleeting but I can sense some new insights. I think this place has been helpful in getting some clarity back.
    titan_transcendence likes this.
  19. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    When it comes to time away from technology, it sounds like a good idea but I can't speak from much personal experience. What I can say broadly is that your writing seems to emphasize the here-and-now too much: What you did today, how you feel right now, your plans for the next 24 hours, and so on. It might help you to try and think about the bigger picture a little more. (I have the opposite problem.)
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  20. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Learning to burn the masks will be one of the toughest yet most liberating items you do. Well done.

    Panic attacks? Drink water and salt on the tongue when you have an episode.

    What's the difference between a panic attack and an asthma attack? NOTHING. It's a sneaky signal of dehydration.

    **From an ex-asthma guy who cured his asthma permanently just by drinking more water and having more salt.

    Sorry for the unasked advise, but I know panic attacks are super scary, and that is the only reason I am passionate about sharing this info.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.

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