Learning to be myself

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Thelongwayhome27, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Active Member

    Regarding the weed and the alcohol: How important is the high of weed and alchol to you vs. staying abstinent from PMO? For me, it was a very simple equation. This decision doesn't have to be for eternity. I will definitely drink again but not now and maybe even not this year. I know for a fact that I'm going to relapse sooner or later if I continue to drink. So what is more important to you? For me personally, battling and overcoming my PMO addiction is the number 1 priority in my life and I'm doing everything in my power to increase my odds of staying clean and living a healthy lifestyle.

    Same can be said for staying at home eating junk food and playing video games for hours on end and other unhealthy habits. Everyone has different vices.

    Wishing you all the best!
    Thelongwayhome27 and -Luke- like this.
  2. Eternity

    Eternity Patience

    It's tough to deal with several bad habits simultaneously, but if they are all connected there may be no other way. I only have experience with junk consumption, and the first week always brings me to the edge of despair. It's almost insufferable, but only almost. It's all worth it when that dark cloud finally dissipates.
  3. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival


    Just in reply to your story of an atttactive girl you saw, you wanted to approach, but you didnt and regretted it.

    And you dont want to get into PUA mentality.

    Agreed PUA mentality is disempowering and toxic. Coming from someone who used to coach it for a short time frame.

    Here is the secret to women:
    There is no secret.


    Advertisers would shoot me if enough people got this. Thats a reason that message isnt preached: you cant make any money off of telling someone that they are good enough as they are.

    You can make money by getting men to doubt themselves even more, tell them there are tricks, and then tell them they need to train for years on end to master the women subject. And all the while they will of course be there to 'support' and 'help' you via buying their courses and horses.

    Yes the PUA soup doesnt taste good.

    I will write a post on dating and women soon for this forum. What has worked for me, what hasnt worked for me.

    I have an exercise suggestion for you. Next time you see a woman you like, observe yourself/watch yourself how you refuse to talk to her. Observe how you might talk yourself out of it and what emotions and memories come up if any do.

    You might be overthinking the women subject, as many men do including myself in the past.

    If my body yearned to speak to a girl, the body would sort of 'hover' intentionally near her and make my intent known i like her and find her hot. I dont say it with words but i express it with intent/psychologically. Women know this unless the woman is thick minded or not interested.

    Women want sex as much as men do. Yep. I stand by that because i have seen too much proof of it.

    And so called "attractive women" are normal humans. Some of them are fucking idiots to avoid. Some are sweethearts. Some are untrustworthy. Some are noble and virtuous.

    I never even consider the outward attractiveness of a woman too much anymore. All that matters is chemistry and see if she has same values and heart as I do.

    To me looking back, I find it absurd why or how men can feel inferior around so called hot women.

    Here is the ultimate remedy: Find your values. Live them. Dont preach them but live them. And allow yourself to be fully yourself whatever the risk.

    Once you like yourself, the fear or hesitation around dating will vanish.

    If you dont like yourself, you will secretly hope someone will approve of you as permission. You don't need permission to like who you are and respect the individual you are.

    "My name is Johnny. And I like me." This is the new mantra.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  4. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Thanks a lot, @Johhny Bravo, for taking the time to write this. I'm not as experienced as you but I completely agree. Girls are attracted to guy's who are comfortable being themselves. Who know who they are, what they want and aren't apologetic about who they are. This doesn't mean they have to be assholes. There is a golden line between being confident and living by your own values that won't make you an asshole and I think girls of value will be attracted to such a guy. The only thing I'm not sure is if it's possible to have genuine confidence in oneself, as a man, if we have not achieved success with the opposite sex. It then kind of becomes a catch 22 ; to be desirable you have to have authentic confidence in your capacity to attract girls for who you are, but without having attracted girls in the past there is no way to have that spark. It feels like some guys got lucky in they're teens by achieving success for whatever reason around girls and started reinforcing this element further on. And for others, the opposite feedback loop happened.

    @Pete McVries - Thanks for the feedback Pete. I think staying off P is important for me and there is no point risking it with alcohol and weed. That's why I intend to become more strict in relation to alcohol as of now, as I've been, indeed, too lenient with it lately. Weed, for sure, activates in me the PMO and compulsive sex craving. I don't smoke much of it, but there is no point to even use it occasionally at this point. If I drink and smoke weed, relapse chances are very high. An alcohol binge, without weed, is also extremely dangerous. Maybe I can allow myself the opportunity to have one or 2 drinks on social occasions but there cannot be binges. The question is indeed if I am capable of long term moderation.

    Well said man ! Hopefully we'll find come solid motivation coming back both our way.
    Pete McVries likes this.
  5. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    8 days off P

    Not much to report. Still trying to get my discipline fine tuned. I'm doing some healthy positive habits but overall I'm having trouble achieving a zen like calm mood. I feel like I'm not too connected to myself. It's a little frustrating because it feels like I can't find the calmness that helps me make decisions easily. There are quite a few important things I need to do and some decisions to make that I am delaying and I think it's weighting me down. I'm having some problems with productivity these days. Maybe this is all some result of all the relapses I've had. The lack of discipline, the confusion and fog I'm feeling now. I think though that if I manage to stay away from relapsing to my vices further, and keep on trying to fine tune my discipline and feed the good wolf, as they say, I will slowly find better clarity and calmness. Basically reconnect with myself. I also need to tackle the stuff I'm putting off. Hopefully I can become a little more productive in the next few days. As a final note I felt conflicted today about some family obligations and demands and making my own routines. It's never easy to either say no clearly or not feel guilt and doubt about my decisions in such instances. Such things create anger in me. I was quite angry this evening because of this internal conflict. Such hesitations and internal conflicts are clearly part of the uncomfortable sensations of life I have learned to numb in various ways, PMO being one of the methods.

    Direction :
    - Keep looking for better discipline to become more zen (reconnection with Self)
    - Try to tackle the stuff I'm delaying
    - The social "work" (social anxiety and girls) must be pursued but without the vices of alcohol excess, but for a few days it's dormant until I find clarity. But this scope must not be forgotten about. It's where deeper recovery happens.
    - Keep stacking days in the sober meter (the streak)
    Mekkeren and Merton like this.
  6. Joost

    Joost New Member

    Hey there, Mr. Longwayhome!

    You might or might not remember me. I believe it was in 2016 we had a couple of conversations on Skype. I had been on the forum since 2014 under the name 'Joo', stopped coming here at some point since it kept my focus on the problem and just today got back here, surprised to see some familiar names like yours and Luke!
    I'm sorry to see you are still struggling with this issue, for it's such a waste of potential. I've been keeping a journal over at rebootnation since last december, the period in which things really started to change for the better for me. Now, half a year later, I can confidently say i'm not longer a slave to porn. My last relapse was 1 and half month ago, which might not seem a lot, yet I can exclaim victory over lust with confidence now. I can't explain my whole journey of change in one post, but the essential thing that has changed is that my desire for lusting after women has been taking away from me, by Gods grace. This makes recovery a lot easier since I'm not having to deal with urges anymore. It's still a process, but i'm no longer driven nor harassed by the impulses of my 'sex-drive'. For more details you could have a look at my thread at rebootnationforums: Metanoia, a journey of faith.

    Wishing you Gods insight and wisdom in this matter.

    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  7. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    9 days off P

    Not much to report today either. Another decent day in the bank. Feeling a bit more calm and balanced. Have been careful with the very basics of sleep and eating healthy. I keep forgetting how important sleep is. Good constant sleep changes everything. Have also been exercising pretty much every day and meditating (morning and evening). Less social outings in the last few days has also helped calm down my rhythm, which is good right now I think because as I had written my balance was getting off key. There have been urges and cravings and I've found myself entertaining them a bit but have also been able to realize it's not the direction to go in and consequently to let them go. Still not addressing some important things I need to do however. I hope I can slowly correct this in the next few days.

    Course forward : Keep fostering a sense of calm discipline, of stability, grounding in reality. Careful with the discipline and the random dopamine hits. Become a bit more monk like. Go for minimalism and simplicity. Don't ogle. Don't look twice. Don't look more then 2 seconds. Keep adding days to the sobermeter (streak) and hope for more clarity to come. Putting the social challenges (out of comfort zone) on a dormant few days but this scope isn't forgotten.

    @Joost - Very happy to hear from you after so long and glad to hear you have found a path that is working for you. I've often wondered how you were doing ! Welcome back to this forum :) I have sent you a PM.
    Professor Chaos likes this.
  8. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    These are all game changers. Thanks for reminding me.

    Glad to hear you're doing well. 9 days is when it starts to get serious.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  9. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    10 days off P

    Not much to report once again. A decent day. A calm day. Fostering some inner calm and sense of balance. My mind was overstimulated, lately from the social activities, the drinking, perhaps the relapses (?). Have a bit more free time these days, which helps with living a more zen-like lifestyle. Urges have gone down today. When I reach this place of a bit more inner calm and balance the urges naturally subside. Or is it the other way ? Am I reaching this state because the urges are absent ? Probably a bit of both, a feedback loop. Anyhow ... I've worked out a lot today, even went swimming, which I haven't done in a while. I was good at not looking to much at women over there. Been sleeping better, eating pretty healthy (except some popcorn binges), being active, meditating. These habits help foster the necessary calm where I can "find myself" and gain some perspective. Problem is I am procrastinating on some stuff that, at some point, needs to get done. I've started reading the Six Pillars of Self Esteem. It's okay so far but maybe a bit too traditional classic self help type. Maybe it's because it's a little outdated, since it was written in the early 90's. But maybe there is good stuff in there for me and I don't need to buy into everything. Also reading some self help seems to remind me of the importance of improving myself. In other words, if anything, it's another positive habit in there. The question that remains in my mind is how to do the social connection (girls included) while maintaining the sense of calm and not get overstiumlated, overexcited. Well, hopefully more perspective and clarity in store in the next few days.

    Navigation course : Start addressing the stuff that have added up on my to do list. It's hard, but take it slowly. Any progress is good. Keep fostering calmness and balance with healthy habits and a disciplined routine. Get rest, recharge and when social occasions show up, try to take advantage of them without falling back into vices and out of balance. Keep adding days to the sobermeter (streak). Don't look more then 2 seconds at a woman, don't ogle, don't look a second time. Within these rules, I can enjoy the beauty of women.

    2 dimensions to progress : i) building the new lifestyle ; ii) "mechanically" abstain from P (it boosts the lifestyle change)

    I've been checking out the early entries of Wabi-Sabi's journal. He's a member I use to appreciate on here (and he even offered me some guidance once or twice), but isn't posting anymore. His journal seems to be a source of some great information and insights. I relate to a lot of the struggles he writes about and I like his calm and balanced approach to this. At one point he mentioned in some other post of his that, in the end, learning to live without P is a habit that takes time and patience to build. Just like using P is a habit we have built over a long time, to learn how to stay away from it is also a habit that takes time to develop. In this sense, when one falls off, what matters is that he dusts up and resumes practicing living without the P. Slowly, one gets better at it. There is some willpower in there sure, but it's also a skill.
  10. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    Glad to see you're at 10 days. That doesn't necessarily mean you will keep it up, but it is a decent start.

    Being in the place where you relapse once every week, or every few weeks, is really the roughest, most discouraging experience. When you've done that for a while, it becomes hard to convince yourself that you're ever "taking it seriously," that this streak is serious and will make it somewhere, and so on. You have to find something big to pull yourself up and get a lot of momentum going in that positive direction. It's something that's hard to do repeatedly (which is why I've been so determined to not let this streak of mine collapse). So don't try and beat yourself up too much for your mistakes. Just make the current one the best that you can. Good luck
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  11. Eternity

    Eternity Patience

    At least it's among the least unhealthy snacks! And I get what you write about the journals of others who may no longer visit the forum. There's some pure gold out there.

    Procrastination: how to stop? Is it like everything else that it's possible to train oneself to get better, or is it an actual trait? Nah, I think it's all about discipline but when that discipline is being used for many different things, others tend to get neglected. As long as we take positive steps, I'm sure we'll get there. Like a puzzle for which the pieces come together one by one.
    Merton and Thelongwayhome27 like this.
  12. Professor Chaos

    Professor Chaos Active Member

    Hey gang,

    Lotsa gold in this thread. I really think a lot of the things you guys are mentioning have a common factor:
    Recently I’ve found learning to relax to be a keystone to my recovery. My urge to look at P directly relates to my stress levels. Procrastination- more stress. Challenges at work- more stress.
    I think that’s why meditation (and it’s absence) relates a lot to my recovery.
    By mediating. You just be. No stress. No worries. Just breath and peace. Once you are calm. You can deal with anything. But for me P was the great stress reliever. The more pressure or stress. The more the desire to us P skyrockets.

    Glad to have you back dude. It’s always darkest before the dawn.

    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  13. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Active Member

    Wabi was such a great member of this site. I wonder why he stopped posting and I hope he is doing well.
  14. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Around 17 hours off P

    Not in the best of places right now. I feel stuck, confused, unmotivated, helpless and very pessimistic that I can overcome my problems.

    What is hard is the confusion. I can doubt any path. I can place a logical doubt to every path. I just can't see which path to take. Even this noFap path I can doubt.

    It also seems all paths lead to failure.

    In any case, I had managed to go about 16 days without PMO/MO but I was sucked back in yesterday. It sucks cause I thought I was going to go for longer this time, I thought I would hold the sobriety longer.

    I'm not sure where to take it from here. I have that feeling, once again, how trying to fight this is making it worst.

    I'm also bombarded, as is often the case when I'm depressed, with alternate life scenarios. With what my life could have been. With things I regret and feel like it's too late to change now. I have a strong need to escape, like buy a one way ticket to some place and disappear from this current life. But I don't see how that is even possible. That only happens in movies.

    I have this strong inner dream of leaving everything and restarting anew some place far far away where I don't know anyone and find redemption there. Find a new life there. True healing. But again, it sounds like a movie.
  15. Eternity

    Eternity Patience

    What's more is that even though everything changes, chance is that you yourself won't. I used to want to move to a different city and start over, when I was given this very advice. But all that would've changed was the room in which I'd PMO. The proof really is that nothing changed even when I moved to my ideal place. I actually went into one of the most depressive moods I've experienced.

    Recovery isn't linear. We stumble, and it may take long time to get up. You were doing really well, and at least I don't doubt that this is the good path. Perhaps try to take some pressure off for a while, though.
    Thelongwayhome27, Living and Gil79 like this.
  16. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival


    I read your posts, and I will just address the subject of indecisiveness with these multiple paths you see before yourself. I am not writing this as advise towards you (I hate it when people give me advise without my consent). Rather I am writing this for a former younger version of myself and I wish I had this to help me:

    "When stuck in a maze,aggressively make choices."- Johnny Bravo.

    There is a novel I like called The Diceman. It was written in the 70s, and banned in I believe 16 countries due to its explicit philosophy. The gentleman that wrote it took 12 years to write the entire masterpiece. The reason I share those seeming trivial facts is because he didn't have an agenda to make money or get famous, but rather publish his own wisdom all in a single fictional book. I will quote,

    …"...Your passivity towards life is going to kill you and is the reason you are sick....The only way to save yourself is to first break your inertia." (pg 75).

    For myself at previous times in life, I wish someone would tell me this.

    I am a fan of Osho. Osho has stated that a block towards decisiveness is doubt, and children are trained to doubt themselves at a young age (back when he said this in the 80s).

    I think one of the worst things I ever did as a younger me, and please not I am not shaming myself but rather shaming the lack of authority and decent love I had around me, was when I made a decision and began travelling the path I doubted myself quickly after making a choice.

    I believe it is insigicant WHAT choices we make as humans, but rather what SPIRIT and totality we make in a choice.

    Osho has used a great analogy of stealing something minor:

    Say there is something I want to steal. Yes steal, as in it doesn't belong to me, but I KNOW I can get away with it and I will benefit from stealing this so called thing. Let's say I am Darth Vader and I want to steal Luke Skywalkers lightsabre for my own personal use.

    You have two choices (please follow my logic you will understand at the end):

    Choice A: Steal the lightsabre, and then feel guilty and weird about the whole thing whilst using it for fun
    Choice B: Ignore my impulse to steal, don't benefit from the weapon, and then secretly have a voice whispering to me, "Yeah but what if I stole it?"

    Be radically honest with yourself, and think of a time you were in a similar situation. Don't lie, there was at least one moment in your life you DIDNT steal something and you secretly wished you did.....

    Or, if you stole something, then you then felt guilty and shameful about it, and tried to justify why it was ok etc....

    Here is Osho's logic as follows: it doesn't matter which choice you made, rather, it seriously matters HOW you made the choice and how total and non-divided you were in the choice.

    So if you steal, you must steal with zero guilt and enjoy and benefit.

    And if you fogoe, you must forgoe with zero double thinking of it later on.

    Osho then proceeds to say that as children, we are conditioned to doubt ourselves and every choice we make is either lose-win or win-lose in our minds. The solution is to make the choice a win-win (mentally).

    It doesn't matter what path you pick, just pick it with totality and inner conviction. And do not doubt. IT DOESNT MATTER IF ITS 'WRONG' because there is no wrong choice, there is only wrong spirit. Do not half-in half out anything. Do everything with spirit and commitment and totality.

    If you choose to watch porn, really enjoy it and watch porn.

    If you choose to abstain, go the full measure and suffer and battle all the obstacles that come up.

    But no more doubt. Stop it.

    And, I will quote Shinmen Musashi,:

    To Cross at a Ford.

    To cross at a ford means setting sail on your ship, even when you are familiar with the tides and the favour of the day.

    If when you choose to cross at a ford, ideally, set sail when there is a favourable wind to give you momentum.

    If when you are half-way across the sea towards your destination, and the wind dies off, you must continue to row across the sea without any sail and finish the decision.

    Food for thought!

    Question for yourself and for us if you wish, what are these multiple 'paths' you speak of? Can you list 4? You mentioned you weren't even sure about the nofap challenge.
    Thelongwayhome27, Mekkeren and Gil79 like this.
  17. occams_razor

    occams_razor Well-Known Member

    A reset is always tough, but hopefully you're on Day One now, which is much better than Day Zero!

    Being able to doubt any path can be used to your advantage. How? By "doubting" thoughts, urges, triggers and rationalisations that could get you into trouble! I made quite a big breakthrough in my recovery by focusing on doing that for a while.

    Another thing I learned recently, from reading a blog, is that if a thought is troubling you, just say to yourself, "Give me something better to think about." Pretty effective!

    I also sympathise with feeling "stuck" and all that. Of course I don't know exactly what you're going through, but yeah. I'm feeling "stuck" trying to finish this paragraph lol!
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  18. Ereignis

    Ereignis Active Member

    Something you wrote in my thread:

    Don't give up.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  19. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    Stay strong @Thelongwayhome27. I have faith in you and know that you do know what you want and will succed in that!

    Thanks for another awesome and inspiring post @Johhny Bravo!
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  20. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    Sorry to hear about you feeling this bad. Ofcourse, we all want to give up porn and never ever be bothered by it ever again. A lot of us even think that's what a reboot should be like. However, when you look in 99% of the journals, you don't see this happening at all. To me one of the best lessons I've learned about giving up porn has been accepting that our slips are just as much part of the path as our streaks. It might be a halt or perhaps even a step back (perhaps a hundred steps back every now and then), but it's still the same path. Seeing my attempts to live the life I want as a path is by far my most favorite analogy. But when you are literaly walking a path with uneven places, climbs and descends and you stumble and fall you're not telling yourself how you can't walk that path, right? You are walking that path. So you get up and continue to walk, because you chose that's the path you wanted to travel. To me there really is not a lot of difference with a dealing with my problems. Yes, you sometimes get frustrated and every now and then you will fall flat on your face, but when you look at things realistically that's what you could have expected in the first place. It's just a part of this path we're walking. The best thing you can do is learn from your slips:)

    And just curious: what exactly do you mean with 'all paths lead to failure'?
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
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