Discussion in 'Ages 25-29' started by rabbit., Nov 18, 2014.

  1. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    A month has passed since my last post. Time flies.

    I've gone home (to my apartment) for a few days before I'll join my family on vacation. Now, I've only been here on my own for one and a half days and my mood has deteriorated 100%, I PMO'd 3 times and have been on my computer all day. It was quite remarkable because in the first few hours yesterday, I got a huge amount of stuff done, but then I sort of became my old / usual me, doing nothing, procrastinating, withering away in front of my computer.

    I think I've come to the (somewhat sad / pathetic) realization that I can't continue living ("living") by myself in my apartment, away from my family and away from life basically. I've lived with my parents and my sister for almost three months now -- a long time, but I have to say I've rebounded and have started to feel better than in many years, had daily interactions, accomplished things (preparing lunch, doing the shopping etc).

    Now, obviously nothing has changed at the core; the improvement in my mood, energy, confidence and self-image was only at the surface, e.g. from doing chores, helping my family, being useful, being around people. The underlying, deep structural problems (both in my mind and in the real world, e.g. no job, no social life) remain.

    I mean, my family is really amazing and they put no pressure on me. But I feel like something needs to happen, some real change, not these little meaningless things like establishing a reading routine or exercising regularly again. Bullshit. More fundamental change.

    But still, as always, I dont really want this change. I am still operating from a position of self-hate and self-rejection. There are 2-3 guys on here whose journals I used to read and looked at again just now, who embody a completely different, more positive, pragmatic approach; sort of like being happy to embark on a journey, curious to discover, experiment, try out new things, make mistakes, learn things, and transform themselves and their life. With me, it's still just negative. I dont want to be fat (I have let myself go so badly, it's terrible) -- it's not "I want to be fit/healthy/learn healthy recipes/run a marathon/find out how muscular I can get/whatever". It's: I don't want to be how I am physically anymore; I hate my body, I don't want to look like I do any longer. That's my motivation.

    But I dont think this approach is sustainable at all. My history has shown this over and over. Eventually the negativity becomes too much and I will just stop the process of improving. This negative motivation is good as a start, to get things going, but eventually it runs out, and what's underneath the surface comes to light and it's always rejection, hate, feelings of inferiority, blame, regret.

    In other words, I will ride this wave -- stopping PMO, working out, continuing my frustrating low calorie diet until things break again.
  2. Chammorrow

    Chammorrow Member

    Hey bro, it's been a while since I've posted in your journal, and there's a lot of things that I've probably missed. I forgot exactly where I heard this from, but a man said that people always want to project happiness towards the future. They want to say that, "Oh, I'll be happy when this and that happens, I'll be happy when I get a job, I'll be happy when I get a girlfriend"...however, this is the wrong attitude to have. Happiness isn't tangible like that, it is something that needs to be happening now. You need to find happiness in your own life right now, and that's a hard thing to ask, but it has to be done. I also want to ask how many close guy friends that you have, good friends that are there for you when you are you have those? if you do, reach out to them, talk to them, laugh with them, like Kevin Hart said, laugh about your pain.
    and lastly, find solutions..If you are unhappy about your weight, that is within your control,if you want more knowledge read more books, finding a job is beyond your control but you can put yourself in the best position to get one.
    the reason I'm saying all of this isn't to preach, I'm following these same advices now, I've been relapsing and relapsing and it's getting me depressed..and to get out of it, you need to change your perspective and your surroundings..maybe living by yourself isn't the best idea
  3. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Exactly 50 days since my last post. I'm still alive. As much of a success as anything I guess. I feel a lot better in general. I've been trying to take small steps. I would say I've been very successful at this. For the first time since I got fast Internet in 2003, I'm not using it excessively. For at least a month or so, I've been online less than an hour a day on average. I don't miss it at all. I've wasted so much time in my life online and more importantly mental energy on useless debates, random reading that didn't teach my anything or get me any further in my struggle.

    I can't say I use my time super productively or anything now either, but at least I am not online all day and especially not in the evenings (I haven't been online after 8pm for weeks now and it's been really good). I read a lot of magazines, books and so on, and I've managed to talk a walk for one hour every day for 3 weeks or so. I also listen to a hypnosis cd every day, which is good for me as well.

    I've also started a new diet, together with my mom, which is a first really and I'm excited because I've always wanted to do this with some support instead of having to diet all alone on my own in my shitty apartment. And OBVIOUSLY, it has been extremely easy this time around, almost one week down with really good adherence. I mean, this has been a topic in my journals many many many times, but yeah, it's so much easier than always having to do things on my own. Live and learn I guess :p.

    Now, the problem again as always is that this is only "superficial work". I notice that whenever I try to think about deeper topics, such as my future, what job I want to have etc etc., I shut down internally and start to get depressed and suicidial thoughts creep into my head again. So, quite frankly, I've made no progress in this area since my little breakdown in March. Nobody puts any pressure on me, which is good, but I think I won't be satisfied with this kind of "easy" life with my little hobbies and habits or whatever for long. And autumn/winter is just around the corner, which is always a difficult time for me. So I am not sure if I can really call the last few months a success or whatever and how to continue from here. But on the other hand, I do feel better than in a long time -- years, probably --, and I am making real, noticeable progress, even if it might be confined to sort of irrelevant/escapist areas like my health or relaxation or not using the Internet.

    Finally, as it is still the topic of this forum: no PMO for a long time; MO is still difficult but I am still on the journey to complete abstinence ;). Right now, it's about every 3-4 days, I can't seem to get past day 5/6 or so. But I won't give up, obviously.
  4. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Thanks Cham, good to hear from you again!

    I have one really good guy friend, but we don't really talk about these things much and he lives quite far away. Apart from that, no one really. I am with my family now though, so I am in a good, supportive environment (finally).

    You are right about changing perspective, I'm trying to do this somehow, even though I don't really know how specifically. I'm just trying to think of how I would usually do something and then do something new because what I used to do hasn't worked out for me at all, both in small and big matters. I will try to write more about this when I am in the right mood (and right now, it's past my Internet time :p).
  5. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Pretty bad mood recently. PMO'd a few times as well after about 2 months or so. Feeling very pessimistic, hopeless, disillusioned. Yesterday I spent many hours looking up classmates from all the schools I went to, and it (obviously) was not good for my mental state and everything.

    I've read on the forum that some people are working on the Inner Shame book and have made progress with it. I once read some of that book, years ago, but it was too much for me. Maybe I should start again and really work from the ground up because there is so much shit in my mind that prevents me from really improving things; and there is really no point in adding good things like exercise, diet, whatever on top of a shaky foundation.

    I also want to start journaling again -- even though I am a bit sad to see what the forum has come to, doesn't matter for me really because despite some drawbacks it was always helpful in general, not least because I could practice my English lol (I've gotten so rusty because I am not online on English-speaking sites/forums all day anymore), but really even more important, I could really dive into my thinking and explore and expand little thoughts. I've said it many times, I've often felt so close to "getting it", peeling back the onion to really deep layers, but then retreating because of fear and anger -- or even stronger emotions for me: self-hate and regret. Perhaps this time I can persevere and not give up a few steps before the goal line.

    So let's start again.
  6. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    Yo dude. Despite what all books, books, articles and some more books suggest, human will is nearly an ilusion. It's like weak guy riding an elephant. You can't strongwill it into going where you want, but you may change his motives (hormones and neurotransmitters) a bit, to be more in line with your wishes. Thats why I really recommend an antidepressant. Try wellbutrin, as it's supposed to have no bad effect on libido also it helps with weight loss. It's too costly for me (30 euro per month), but I guess for you it's nothing. All those self book shit is written by already happy people, who just try to rationalize their success as if it was totally in their control. It's like asking me why I know english so well. I may answer that I put a lot of hard work into it, but honestly I was just driven and it was not a work at all. Both nofap and antidepressants had much impact on my weight loss, and next one I'm taking has a good influence on my extraversion and sociability as well. Try that path, and stop trying to bend the spoon with your mind. It just won't happen
  7. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Hey man, good to hear from you. I will try to write more later (also in your journal) but right now my mind is empty. Only one thing: I am considering antidepressants now, which ones have you been taking, what effects etc.? Did you go to a psychiatrist?
  8. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    first was prozac, I advise against it, it makes you dead inside, which is in general positive feeling (surprise), but it makes me dead vs women too, which is bad as I'm still quite young. I will definitely start taking it when I'm too old to pick up girls
    Now I'm taking venlafaxine, it seems to have short "half-life", so its not supposed to affect libido that much. I will try not taking it for a week + week of nofap to check results. It makes you much more "romantic" too. I definitely started talking on the phone much more after it.
    If I were you I'd probably try wellbutrin, but as I said, its bit too expensive for my liking ( basically 2 days work :D, should be half day work for you).
  9. Chammorrow

    Chammorrow Member

    How have you been rabbit?
  10. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    Rabid, as always
  11. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member


    Haven't been on here for almost three months. The new design takes some getting used to and it seems my ignore list was included in the list of people I follow, but on the other hand, the sites seems a lot faster now.

    I don't really know how to start. It's hard to summarize or give more than a simple state of the moment report that will be clouded by how I feel right now/how my day was.

    I feel a lot better, so far I've lived through autumn without any depression or suicidal thoughts. In general, I've become a lot more stable. Now I am trying to take some small steps, I don't know where, but just anywhere forward.

    Most importantly, I seem to finally have overcome my Internet addiction. In October I was on vacation and didn't bring my laptop, so I didn't use a computer for two weeks -- my longest period of time without it since I first got fast Internet in 2003. The results in that attempt were amazing, I was a lot more confident, active, smarter, whatever. So since then, I've stopped using my computer on the weekends (successfully so far) and only like 2 hours per day during the week. I've stopped reading online crap almost completely; when I do read something, it's much more focused and on some specific topic about which I want to know something specific. There is still room to improve here, and I've noticed that there is some kind of added benefits, like two days without any computer time in a row are a lot better than on Monday and on Friday.

    I've also started doing some math tutoring for two children of my mom's friends, so I earn some money, but most importantly, this is one more example of why I am in a better situation here with my family: I just can't escape and isolate myself like I used to do when I lived on my own. I always meet people (my family's friends, but still), always have to talk, be social, and I always have opportunities to do something like drive someone somewhere, buy groceries, or the math lessons I mentioned. None of this is truly life-changing and the usual problems I used to go on about on here for years are still there.

    But you know. I've stopped putting pressure on myself (I mean, I've started in a very low position in this respect). I've realized that my life is sort of messed up if you look at it from a "normal" viewpoint, compare it to a "normal" path. But in a sense this is very liberating to me because I can now truly do what I want to do, think about where to go from here. Like, my parents are building a new house right across the street next year and have asked me to move there, and I might do it. At first, it felt like a step back, you know like "I'm almost 30 and still living with/close to my parents", but really, this thinking makes no sense. It doesn't matter. My cousin is two thirds done with his PhD. in medicine and now he gave it all up because it made him unhappy and might do something completely different out of medicine; it might look like a failure, a crossroads where he took the path away from what would be considered right/normal/whatever, but really, it's not and it doesn't matter.

    So in regards to my own situation, if I am perfectly honest with myself: I would get destroyed if I moved back to my apartment or to a new city somewhere else all on my own. It's sad (not really) and like a kind of failure, but I have to accept this. I have to accept my "weakness" (in quotation marks because it's really not, as we've discussed on here many times, put a confident, happy person in a bad situation and 9 out of 10 times they will suffer and despair).

    So I am viewing it like this: I still need some more time to be more stable. Right now it's been 9 months after my break down and the first few months were spent on even getting to a level resembling "normal". So really, I've only been healing in a sense for like 3-4 months or something. After having been depressed pretty much permanently for 10 years. I know there is the danger of just postponing "life" indefinitely, but I think I am very much aware of this and will not just settle in my ready-made bed in my parents' new house, but I will continue doing small things, maybe do even more tutoring as I seem to have a good connection to the kids and even instill some new liking for school in one of them etc etc. Do more fitness, diet, etc etc. But really, understanding that I am already so far off the "normal" path, made me realize that I do have (some) time. 3 months, 6 months more, it doesn't really matter -- always under the implication that I am doing things and not just vegetating away watching TV all day (which I dont).

    I hope some of the rambling makes sense! That's all for now.
  12. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    Look into meditation. Ha, got ya! So I used to think it's bullshit or extremely slow helpful antidepressant, but here is a catch. There is some shit called jhanas, that is possible to achieve in month I think, and it's literaly "bliss" on demand. As if in actual pleasure. And apparently it's not dopamine related, so it won't downregulate (e.g. reliable once it started working for the first time). And there is this thing that it's scientifically proven to work
  13. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Damn, six weeks have passed since my last post. I actually thought I had posted since then, but apparently I haven't.

    So things are progressing, slowly, but surely.

    I've made up my mind and will I've up my apartment in the city I used to live in and move back to my family for real. At least for the year 2017, that's my plan. I will move into our guest house, hopefully by the summer, where I will have my own space for myself.

    My tutoring is going pretty well, I have applied for a few private tutoring jobs and also one more formal one as an English teacher for seniors. I also tutor one more student now, so 3 in total. There is still so much self-doubt inside me, I am constantly questioning what I am doing and I feel like some con-artist because I don't even have a math degree etc etc. But I am trying to eliminate this really toxic behavior and quiet my mind and stop all these stupid thoughts that serve no purpose and are just a waste of energy.

    The main thing holding me back at the moment is my lack of energy. I still take a walk every day and try to exercise and sleep well etc etc., but it's a struggle. I can really feel the effects of the weather on my mental state and I feel lethargic most of the time and find it hard to motivate myself, but I am making progress in that area as well, mostly because there are things I have to do / people rely on me like my students, so I have to at least do that and it helps me stay active on the most difficult days.

    To improve my mood a bit, I've started this type of gratitude journal that I saw on reddit. You start with an empty jar on January 1 and put a note in it for every good thing that happens to you throughout the year. I have a couple of notes in my jar and digitally on my laptop, so yeah.

    Well, that's about it, doesn't sound like a lot, but it is significant.
  14. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    You are completely right in regards to meditation -- my problem has always been lack of consistency. Whenever I tried to get a meditation routine going, I stopped (despite great benefits...) after a few days or weeks. What method/setup are you using?
  15. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    I'm at loss. In the past I didn't really meditate - more like tried to get my brain into deeper waves (from beta to further stages, named delta or something) (1-7 Hz). So I just got into the state and visualized pleasant things. In the hindsight I believe that was correct way somehow, but it didn't affect my life after the sessions.
    Also lying in bed while meditation is big no no, because you just flip into hypnagogic state (half lucid dreams with weak sensory stimuli). At the moment I'm trying to find/buy comfortable chair, because those I have are abysmal to posture.
    Btw, turns out if you are there for quick fixes, meditation is second to fixing breath and posture. Ester Gokhale and/or Alexander method are recommended - just started. Theory is that we lock our emotions into some muscles that contract way too often and for way too long, so those bad emotions reverb (anchoring) too long into our life. Quick awareness of how bad my neck is fucked up was enough proof.
    So yeah, basically first step of meditation would NOT be mindfulness - as it's even admitted by gurus that it can be useless with too high though frequency. So first step would be the learning to shup up the mind.
    When it comes to meditation, I get my notions from dude. Looking at his past posts and turmoils he went though and similarity to myself, I felt instantly drawn to his writings. He acknowledges though that he went into too many epiphany addiction moments in the past, and says to take his older than 1.5 year posts with a grain of salt, because they only provided temporary relief based on placebo effect more often than not.
  16. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    So, a couple of weeks have passed yet again.

    two things.

    1. I've moved back home completely now, have moved all my stuff from my old apartment. It was stressful, but it was also very liberating. The moment I walked out of my old apartment, totally empty, and closed the door for the last time, I felt so free. It was a huge burden that I could drop off my chest. It is the right decision for me. This apartment, city, the last few years were just horrible for me. Now things are looking better, I've been making progress continuously for months now, without relapses (emotionally/depression-wise). I think I am on the right path now. I might not have all the answers and everything, but I am doing better and getting better.

    2. I've started talking to this girl and it's completely fucking me up. Well, this in itself is not even note-worthy for me I guess, but the reasons are completely different this time.

    Now, to preface, she has just told me she has had some issues in her life in the past, so maybe I've got a totally false impression of her. That said, I went on a date with her and everything, and she just seems sooooo normal. Like she has her shit together, she has a job, she has been diving as a hobby for all her life, she is giving diving lessons, she does some kind of folk dance and goes on tours in the region with her show etc etc. She is very well integrated socially and like...I don't know, she is the most normal woman I have ever met. I mean, yes, as I mentioned in the beginning, she probably has issues etc. etc. and I am not idealizing her, she is certainly not perfect, but like, this is totally freaking me out. After our date today I felt so down, I was so depressed and like felt so inadequate and "not normal".

    It's hard for me to really describe it, because I was so emotional about it and still am. Like, there is nothing about her that is "special", like she is not a model or earns a huge living or has a PhD or anything like that, which would make my insecurity somewhat understandable. She is just normal and lives a life with stability and consistency and yeah...everything that has been missing in my life forever.

    So yeah this has definitely been creeping me out and I went full pussy mode and whined about it to her and totally devalued myself earlier, but I guess somehow I made a great impression on her :p and she wants to see me again. But yeah, to be honest, I am extremely scared. Maybe somehow on a deeper level, I am still scared of living a normal life, like you know, having a stable social circle, regular job, hobbies and activities that I engage in with consistency and long-term...all of that I think this woman represents and I am really intimated and afraid.

    And not a single thought was given to sex! Kind of ironic.

    More to follow (unless I fuck up big time, which given who I am, is possible).
  17. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Sooooo, two months have passed.

    I have made progress in general, but I don't want to write about that now. I want to try and journal much more often because there are so many new problems and weird challenges that I have to tackle, and I feel like I need some outlet and way to analyze things and move forward.

    For now, a bit about my no porn/ no masturbation journey.

    I've been generally without porn this year, though I did relapse just now. It's not a big problem for me anymore. MO is a different issue. I have to say that after more than 4 years of trying (that's how long I know of no fap, I tried no MO a year on my own before ever having heard about it), I didn't make much progress. I could probably put a more positive spin on it, like I had some minor streaks and often go at least 1 day without it. But overall, and in comparison to many people that started on here with me or even later, I have failed and this kind of makes me mad. Now obviously, this means that everything I have tried so far wasn't enough or the right things are still missing. I actually have no idea what they are, so maybe I can find out some new strategies or ideas by writing here. But I need to do this and I am open for anything new because what I have tried, simply hasn't worked. It's kinda pissing me off to have to admit this and face this, but that's how it is, and the first step to improving.

    There are also really basic problems that I am now having to face, like keeping up with a somewhat busy schedule (compared to my bum life I lived the last few years). Just basic shit really, but it's a challenge for me and I want to write about that here as well. So a bit about no fap/no porn, and a bit about real life problems.
  18. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    So Day 1.

    Today the weather was really bad, and this always has a negative effect on my mood. Especially since the weekend was so nice, I was already sitting on the patio wearing only a T-shirt.

    Worked out a bit (something I want to do more regularly again, have fallen off the wagon last year), had one tutoring lesson, planned the trip I am going to go on with a friend in Autumn. All in all, I had way too much free time today. This is still my biggest problem or issue. In particular, I don't know what to do in the evenings. I want to stop watching TV, and also stop using the computer after 8 pm (or even better, 6 pm). Sometimes I am able to do this and I will just read until I go to bed. But I don't want to do that every evening, so I often end up being online before bed (just like now). In general, I feel like I need to set bigger goals and think of actions that I can take every day, especially small ones that don't involve me sitting in front of a screen.

    On like a meta level, what I always keep in the back of my mind is something I wrote on here after my breakdown last March: I ended up at a point where I was simply done and finished, and it was my behavior and my thinking over many years that directly led me to that shitty place. So the conclusion I came to was that I need to do things differently. I need to think differently, act differently, do things I have never done before, consider options I've never thought of before, entertain ideas I would usually reject immediately. I have had and still have to become a lot more humble to apply this in many instances, but I am making progress. In March I surprised a lot of people, including myself, when I did like a sort of comedy routine on my mom's birthday and it was a total blast. Rabbit prior to 2017 would never have done that. Right now I going to buy a tent to camp in when it's summer here -- something I would never ever have thought of, but now I think it might be nice, especially because my parents have a big garden/back yard, so I might just sleep outside in a tent when it's warm outside. Just small things like that.
  19. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Day 1 (again)

    Felt really tired and lethargic after the relapse the first half of the day. Had one tutoring lesson, was okay; I have one "problem student" that is taking a toll on me, has a difficult situation at home and is not interested in studying at all, etc etc. This is stressing me out a bit, but I've been working on this not having such an effect on me, as I can only do so much and shouldn't let it affect me.

    Apart from that, not a lot happened today, and I wasn't exactly in an "active go-getter" type of at all. I did do a 30 minute hypnosis though. I've found a nice one that I am going to do every day now if possible. Really fell asleep during it and was very relaxed.

    Over the Easter holidays, I want to not use my computer at all. I need to use it a bit on Friday, but after that I want to put in 3 offline days. Last time I did that was during my vacation in Spain in October and I felt really great. Eventually I want to not use a computer on the weekends at all and have one offline day during the week as well, and also turn it off by 8pm every week night.
  20. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Day 2.

    Was an okay day. I don't really have much to say, but I want to write a post in this journal every day. Today I had a new student in Math, and I did really well, felt good. The weather was crap again and I didn't feel good throughout the day. I will try not go come online except for these short journal posts the next three days.

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