Discussion in 'Ages 25-29' started by rabbit., Nov 18, 2014.

  1. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    Hi snk,

    thank you for your reply. When I first found out about nihilism 7 years ago, which you allude to, it led to the worst depression I've ever had. It made absolute sense, but it completely destroyed me (to this day I tend to think), I didn't go out for three months except to buy groceries once a week, dropped out of college, watched TV all day, didnt shower or shave, stayed up til 8am, woke up at 6pm etc. I was never able to take that next step that you mention, from "fuck, it's all pointless" to "it's all pointless, yay, I can do whatever I want!!!".

    I fear that I have changed my brain and my beliefs too deeply that I cant get out of that anymore. Too much resistance, too much logic maybe. I was in therapy for a while last year and my therapist said 1) I have an answer/retort for everything 2) I allow her to come close a tiny bit, then immediately push her away. Ultimately I stopped going because she wanted me to commit to a full therapy plan, but I dont commit to things, so that was that. I've thought about going to therapy several times since, but I doubt it would help. I would need someone who can really destroy the wall I've put around myself and I dont know if such a person even exists. I would maybe be interested in some yogi or other type of spiritual guru who doesn't use logic in his teachings (bc I can get around it via words and thinking), but just....drugs I guess ;D or dancing or music/drum circles or some shit where I can't put up that much resistance.

    Anyways, I know what you mean in regards to the comparison game (once you play it, you've already lost), but I think my self-worth (not self-esteem or self-confidence) is so pathetically low that I cant see any good things anymore. I would love to believe in quantum leaps, those big jumps that make you reach a better place quickly, but I cant remember if I have ever experienced this.
  2. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    whatever is happening in your life, your outlook on it makes it even worse
  3. snk

    snk Member

    That must have been what I call "a good deppresion", because it was triggered by something true, so your feelings were the result of destroying the untrue. But I understand consequences were terrible so you didn't follow through. Most people would do anything not to have to confront their mortality even for a bit and I agree it can fuck you up if you go half-way and then crawl back, it worked well for me, but you be the judge of what approach you wanna take.

    Anyways, and I understand this is very hard habit to break, it seems you're interpreting present through your past which creates, of course, undesirable future. It's a vicious circle that won't break by any tactic you apply to kill it.

    But in "I don't really know', there lies an infinite power.

    Cause face it, mate, you don't. You know less than Jon Snow and that guy knows only two things.
  4. snk

    snk Member

    Well... onion is only layers, mate. There is no core inside. Same with you. I talk a bit about this in my journal here and there, so if it's for you, I trust you'll find what you need there.

    So long
  5. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    haha, that is interesting / funny because for years I thought of all this draining introspection I did as walking up a long flight of stairs up to a door and being too afraid to open it to get to the real me / core and always crawling back again. Well, maybe there is nothing behind that door after all? ;D


    The one thing I will never understand about no fap / no porn is why it forces me to face myself and my fears and my emotions and everything and lets me see things clearly (which is frightening). I sorta get the idea of taking away the security blanket and ridding myself of one escape, but I still do a lot of shit to escape my reality, so I am not sure about this explanation. On day 3 no fap now, and last night I had some sort of anxiety attack, it's just so weird. Throughout the day today too, I just kept having these moments where a wave of anxiety and worrying hits me. I usually dont feel that way, or maybe I am numbed, I dont know. It's weird though and it's one of the main reasons I never managed to not masturbate for a long time (6 weeks was my best) and had lots of failed 7-14 day runs. At some point, the anxiety and mental discomfort was just too much. It's not even about the physical side of things, being too horny or something, I mean I am horny today, I never had problems with ED or lack of libido, so that's always there, but the mental challenge for me is very real and difficult.

    I want to do so many things to improve my situation (internal and external), yet I have little energy. Some sort of anhedonia, story of my life. I am trying small steps again, write down 3 positive things / gratitude journal, but it's only the second day today and it's hard for me to want to do it.

    Anyways, I am rambling and I dont want to do that.
  6. Duke

    Duke New Member

    Nihilism is boring. We all go through it and then you move on.

    No you want logic? One of the strongest drive behind getting myself in a better place is that I find it completely ridiculous that one can be intelligent and still be so unhappy while much less intelligent people frequently have less trouble being happy. Logically it just follows that you're not putting your intelligence at work in the right way then (given that your goal is to be happy).

    No-one can. Only you. And if you don't want it badly enough, it's not gonna happen.

    You shouldn't believe in quantum leaps. They don't exist. Life improvement goes slow, not fast.

    [quote author=rabbit.]The one thing I will never understand about no fap / no porn is why it forces me to face myself and my fears and my emotions and everything and lets me see things clearly (which is frightening).[/quote]

    From my observations this is simply because fapping just numbs our brain and emotions so much that we don't feel the emotions so strongly anymore. And hence when we do abstain for a little while we actually have to face the emotions for as strong as they are. Which we have trouble with and thus seek to evade again by numbing ourselves with fapping. In pretty much all of my >7 day streaks I had over the past 1.5 year (like ~15) I always relapsed because I felt bad, not because I was horny (in fact in most cases it happened on days when I felt less horny for me). It's just a coping / numbing mechanism.
  7. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    From my observations this is simply because fapping just numbs our brain and emotions so much that we don't feel the emotions so strongly anymore. And hence when we do abstain for a little while we actually have to face the emotions for as strong as they are. Which we have trouble with and thus seek to evade again by numbing ourselves with fapping. In pretty much all of my >7 day streaks I had over the past 1.5 year (like ~15) I always relapsed because I felt bad, not because I was horny (in fact in most cases it happened on days when I felt less horny for me). It's just a coping / numbing mechanism.

    Hi, I dont know what to write in response to your post in gameover's journal, it seems pretty much spot on.

    What you said about being intelligent and miserable is so true man. I mean, I am no genius (though some child psychologist considered me highly gifted at age 7, which I find both funny and sad now, I think the whole diagnosis fucked me good for all my life so far [huge expectations of myself etc]), but I am intelligent enough to not be THIS unhappy.

    I have wondered before though if my subconscious goal is not to be happy. You know, fear of success, fear of not being in total control (e.g. I used to go to hookers partly because I was in ultimate control of the situation and especially how vulnerable/open I was), fear of not having any excuses for my situation anymore.

    It has also been my experience that I relapsed mostly due to some emotional stress, thinking I will never make it, be forever single, always depressed etc etc, and much less so because I was horny.
  8. Duke

    Duke New Member

    I've never really subscribed to this weird psychological notion of fear of success. I think it's bollocks. I think what they call fear of success is simply apathy for life, which is just a symptom of being depressed.

    What does exist is being obsessed with control over situations. I suffer badly from that too. And I've come to realize it's a big part of what makes me unhappy. Most fun stuff in life comes from unexpected things, not from things you planned out in complete detail.

    I went to hookers a bunch of times as well. It's completely different from opening up and attempting to create a connection with a girl in normal life. I mean, you go there, both of you know what the idea is. Hence, it's safe again, the parameters are clear for everybody. Going there is not gonna help with interaction with girls or improve your confidence / self-worth, although it may help a little with getting more comfortable with sex if you're inexperienced. And of course, it's just fun if you go there with the right mindset (i.e. not out of escapist behavior) and don't have moral obligations against it.

    Anyway, it seems you still have a road to go. One thing I can recommend you is to spend less time thinking about your mood at any given moment and especially try to stop fueling the negative thought spirals. It just doesn't contribute to anything but feeling worse.

    I've come to realize moods fluctuate a lot and they always will. Nothing is ever going to solve that. Getting into a better place just means you'll generally be more happy, experience more positive stuff, but even then life will still throw shit at you at times and if you don't learn to deal better with that, you're still gonna feel miserable then even if your situation would be a lot better than now.

    I also think our western society teaches everyone to chase the wrong things and find happiness where it cannot be found. Coming from someone who had a strong aversion from any spirituality for his whole life, I'm actually subscribing quite a bit to the Buddhist notions of life nowadays. Most of what we struggle with can be solved from within - changing our perspective and outlook on things towards something more positive.

    The human mind is very flexible and nowadays I think you can actually make yourself believe whatever you want with the right approach. None of this should really be that surprising for us porn addicts. I mean, go into full addiction mode and before you know you may be watching dogs have sex with girls to get yourself aroused. But abstain with a no-arousal approach for a month and that average looking girl on the street with a mini-skirt is suddenly already giving you a hard on. It's all very relative.

    In the end, I personally believe life is mostly about experiencing stuff. Getting addicted to porn and ending up watching weird stuff is actually an experience too. Although you probably don't really miss out on anything worthwhile if you don't have that happen in your life. And that's the other side of the coin. There are in fact no experiences that are so important that your life was worthless if you didn't have them.

    Every thing we go through makes us who we are now. While I can't really say I like many things about my past, the other side is that it has also given me an insight into myself, life and the way things work that I wouldn't have had otherwise.
  9. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    I think you need a gentle approach to life.

    Just live by day, learn to appreciate the beauty of little things, let go of ideals and shoulds.

    I recommend a very good book called Peace is Every Step.

    I have attached the book in .epub format.
  10. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member


    I swear a million people have said this to me, and it's right. I am extremely hard on myself and on life, it sucks.

    I will print out the book and when I go on vacation in a few weeks. And maybe Slight Edge too, always meant to give it a proper go again.
  11. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    I don't think it's actual fear of success, but fear of the consequences of success. Like, I have this deep fear that even if I give 100% and even if attain all my goals, I'll still be miserable. So I never give my all at anything. I've lost 10 kg and look better but don't feel a ton better, so I havent given much effort into becoming really lean, which is sort of my goal, but I am afraid it wont change anything about how I look or feel and my dating success.

    Yeah, I am obsessed with control. I sort of see why it's bad, but right now I think it's the only way I can be. I just dont want to open myself up to pain ever again. I don't go to hookers anymore (one year clean, yay...), but I've taken it to another (wprse) level in relationships with other people. I dont even tell my family anything these days, just "yeah everything good, what about you" type shit. When I was more into online dating last month, I didnt even sign up with my real first name, just gave some random details about myself, not even to make myself look better, I just want to keep them as faraway from my heart as possible (which obviously most can look through, but I dont even care anymore, I have stopped believing in "love" or some fulfilling relationship a long time ago, in fact never really bought into it).

    This is going to be hard, I think about my mood all the time. It's supposed to be good (being self reflective and aware) but it might just propel me into worse states all the time.

    I want to believe in this desparately, and have done so for long, but I'm becoming more and more sure it's not true. Put any monk, any spiritual guru in a prison in solitary confinement and none of their techniques will work. Yes, I'm aware of KZ survivors who kept a positive mind, but I doubt it really had anything to do with themselves (most likely better genetic resilience) or simply the law of large numbers. The environment is just so powerful, and mine is shitty (which is my fault, but then again, you need a good environment to really change yourself and not a bad one which only reinforces bad things).
  12. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    As far as I can tell, as I am "same here", we both need antidepressants. If only they were proven to always work, and have little side effects. Once I started taking my roommates drugs (he allowed me), and they were basically making music and all conversations better. You really need to go to psychiatrist. Not to therapy, because you are your own therapist AFAIK. I had one euphoria moment on nofap, when I actually enjoyed music. I belive its how normal people live, and it told me much about what is wrong with people like us.
  13. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    psychologists talk
    psychiatrists want to find a drug for you
    my first visit was like 15 minutes, he asked what is the most important thing that is wrong with you
    i said concentration
    i should have said "being tired for no reason and feeling like I want to sleep most of the time"
    but my drug is good for losing weight so...
  14. Hey man, why don't you try to focus all your energy on your writing skills?
    I've been having a great time experimenting with affiliate marketing online. With your writing skill, I'm sure you'll be earning more money in no time at all, which in turn will result in lesser available time for MO.
  15. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    at monday i spent whole day working and it cured my depression in no time
    thats why my parents say "you cant like without work"

    It's like nofap
    Nofap = angry, stressed, motivated
    Fap = lazy, depressed, avoidant
  16. gameover

    gameover Age: 26

    Care to expand on this ?
  17. tsmith1302

    tsmith1302 Active Member

    True statement.
  18. rabbit.

    rabbit. Member

    No news is good news. Or not. My mood is shitty, I am bracing myself for autumn and winter. Don't know.

    I will start supplementing fish oil and vitamin D, even though I hate supplements, but those are about the only two legal ones that have been shown to work, and last winter I also had some good success with vitamin D, so maybe I can use the placebo effect to my advantage instead of nocebo-ing everything.

    The main problem is that I dont know where to get stuff. I always read people taking all kinds of drugs and steroids, so it makes me wonder where they get it from. Maybe in their gym or something. I am not really sure if I want to buy some shit online, I dont know about "trusted sources". It makes me think that it's actually good that drugs are generally illegal, at least for mentally unstable people like me. If I had access to DNP, I would definitely take it. I dont know if I would inject a needle into my precious ass, probably not. I know too little about steroids as muscle builders, so I wouldnt touch it. I know enough about other supplements, so I can gauge what they do and what the risks are. I've never been interested in like party drugs, but I like reading about people who abuse stuff online and do crazy shit.

    Which brings me to masturbation (why bother with transitions). I am going on 4 years of hearing about celibacy / drawbacks from masturbation in general, and I really have failed. My longest was 6 weeks without M and O. I've got the no porn and no prostitutes handled, had several very long streaks, currently 6 weeks no porn and 1 year no prostitutes. But masturbation, I have failed plain and simply. I mostly do it at night time or when I am falling asleep, so I dont know. Autopilot basically and I stop caring. I am not really using any reasonable approach or strategy, so that is certainly a reason and my fault.

    Also, diet: I've started a new one just before my vacation. What I want to do is eventually get to a 1 meal a day intermittent fasting approach, like eat 1 or maybe 2 hours and then eat nothing for 22 or 23 hours, and basically eat whatever I want, mostly processed food, it doesnt matter, but on a small calorie deficit. I think I have like 5 kg to go in general, maybe a bit more, but I have already gotten considerably leaner, lost 10 kg and 2 pant sizes and one shirt size from 1 year ago, so that's ok (others would rejoice, but I find it just ok, story of my life ::)).

    End of rant.
  19. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    Remember what I wrote about diet? It's all (partly) bullshit. I just forgot I was taking my psychiatric drugs. I am taking it again, and went from eating 3 dinners to eating half. All those slim people are probably bullshitting. Of course, they are "starving" but they don't know any better. Fat guy starving =/= normal guy starving. One can't even compare this magnitude of hunger. Successful people are usually genetically blessed (which we can fix with drugs). And they are obnoxious enough to be teaching not-so-blessed people how to get sixpack. Most things I achieved were not conscious at all. Picking up jailbait girls? Well duh, I am some kind of handsome, also so immature I can talk with them easily xD. I was slim when I was younger because I hated probably 3/4 of all food groups.
    I really advise you to go to psychiatrist. Maybe first drug will fix you. Maybe fifth one, but time will pass soon. Having normal/successful parents never warrants being the same as them! Genetics is the shit. In the dark times majority of people didn't even procreate... At least men ;D. Forever slim guy guide to fitness is as useful as drop-dead handsome guys guide to pickup (not useful at all). Then there are some people in the internet that all day read about perfect facial ratios and refuse to even talk to women because they are imperfect. Well, we are, but at least majority girls want exclusive relationship and that is our hope (blessing in disguise). Okay, off to my master thesis now xD (I am sleepy and tired and my iq dropped to 90s atm).

    When it comes to steroids, well, instead of buying it online its better to ask gym rats. They have this shit handled without neurosis and paralysis of analysis. They just know the source. Btw, looking at dem actors, I think at this age, this century, its extremely stupid to spend money on booze when you can for example having your teeth or face fixed. I will be definitely using botox in 10 years time. It's no brainer.

    When it comes to VIT D, I use it since 2010. No flu whatsoever since. I pay like 10 euros for dosage lasting me half a year or something. But these are 5000IU capsules. Don't even start with 400IU ones, unless you are dead set at taking them for months. I eat two capsules per week if I have any signs of cold. I should probably be taking them even more often to have this "oh it's Spain weather" mood, but I forget it.

    Funny thing. I am angry on placebos, but this video seems to work. You must listen to it in headphones. Its good for getting things done
  20. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    Getting slim. I mean ( I don't want to say it out loud not to spoil the effects or some magic like that), but taking those pills, my appetite is so differents its unbelievable! If it persists, I could probably get this 6pack, then be all cynical and teach those poor forever hungry people how I got there (omitting drug of course). I mean, there is hungry and there is HUNGRY, and while probably some people are in worse spot than me, I was hungry too much. I knew how much I ate, but hungry. It's like loud infant crying that you can't silence. There is no fighting with excessive hunger levels. I will say something funny about freedom when I wake up

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