It's about how hard you can GET HIT and KEEP MOVING FORWARD

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by EFS White, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. EFS White

    EFS White Member


    Stopped seeing progress > lots of rationalizing P > feel like I am at my lowest point now (50 days in)

    Hey NoFapsters,

    I've just crossed the 50 days threshold and I should be proud. Unfortunately I've been feeling gradually worse the last week and I am nearing a depressive low point. Wasn't expecting it this far in. Hadn't been keeping an online journal earlier but I am THIS CLOSE to opening a P tab and binge that I would rather start a thread and spell it all out than relapse now. I do not want to lose hope now, but as some of you may now, there are these very dark days where your mind is just seriously messing with you...

    Anyway, some background.

    I found a soft (and I should say: very soft, like only nudies) mag in the woods when I was 9 years old, and at the time I didn't even know what M was. But looking at these pictures got me turned on to women and that certainly stuck. First time I M'd I must have been 10 or 11, and I think ever since then I have rarely gone more than a couple of days without O'ing. Had my first GF at 16 and was in relationships pretty much non-stop until two years ago; so there was some real-life sex, but...

    I am now 34 years old, have been separated from my wife for more than a year, and on the verge of getting a divorce. I should say I never had PIED, I've always been a sort of a PE guy, lasting maybe 3-4 minutes, something like that. But uhm... I used to have a sort of normal P habit of PMO'ing maybe five, six times a week, magazines, then erotic TV, then graduated to my brothers video collection. Have been looking at hardcore P since I was around 20, and then faster internets kept accelerating my usage.

    Here's the deal, though: To be perfectly honest I considered a wank a day rather normal and healthy, and never thought much of it. Problems started when I met my to-be wife. We had a great sex life for about half a year, then it sort of normalized, and I kinda kept my P habit on the side. About two years into our relationship she told me she had been abused as a child and our sex life went to absolute zero. She'd get panic attacks whenever I approached her and for the last nine years or so we'd have sex maybe twice to three times a year. I wish I were shitting you. Because I suppose at the time I was already hooked on P dopamine and was craving sex constantly. Affair was never an option for me (and to be honest: luckily I never even had an opportunity because over time I got so desperate that I probably would have tripped up). Anyway, long story short, with real-life intimacy and sex virtually non-existent, I leaned on P for my daily dopamine and to drown out the frustration and sadness.

    Over the years I had several breakdowns and my wife and I would talk. I always told her I couldn't live without intimacy but she was sort of like, "there's nothing I can do", and that was the end of that. I'd pick myself up because I loved her, and I'd kinda start beating up on myself for being a man and wanting sex with my wife because I thought, "if only I didn't want sex..." You get the idea.

    I feel like a fraud on this board because I know so many of you seem to have more severe symptoms. My taste in P didn't morph, I never had PIED (actually I wouldn't know). However, for the last, like, seven years or so I was self-employed and my clients wouldn't have any way of telling how I spend my time as long as I delivered on deadlines. So this led to prolonged P sessions, probably, on average an hour to two hours every day of edging, and daily PMO'ing.

    I had a final breakdown some 18 or so months ago and told my wife that I couldn't go on and we had to separate. I think she kinda knew this was coming, as we had been talking it over for years, so she kinda just accepted it and that was the end of that. I never felt so shitty in my life. I am an idealist, totally wanted to be with this woman until the end, totally wanted to do everything for her to heal, but it just wouldn't come together. (Anyway, as of writing this I am 99% certain that we will get a divorce soon; she's in a new relationship and even though I still love her I cannot say I want the relationship back as it was too much to take).

    I've had depressions for years and numbed them with daily PMO. I suppose that my career also didn't take off the way I had intended, but I am rather sure that P was not the reason for that.

    After the separation my P consumption didn't actually get more extreme; I'd say probably even a little less. On average I was still PMO'ing daily, but it would be more like a couple days where I couldn't even be bothered looking at it and then binging for a couple hours.

    I am at a point in my life where ever since my separation I am seeing absolutely no purpose and no goal in life anymore. I am usually a rather cheerful guy and hanging out with friends I can usually manage to be in a good mood. But yeah, I don't see where to go from here. I feel like a sleaze / cheater looking at "other women" still. I had a short-lived affair with a girl a couple of weeks after separating and even though I was starved for sex once we hit the sheets I told her that I know it would just be/feel wrong. Ever since then I've been single, and although I am totally craving a relationship and real-life sex, I feel that my confidence as a man is completely annihilated.

    It must be a sort of learned helplessness or something. I am okay looking, sportive, healthy, intelligent and conversational. But I guess since every time I approached my wife I got rejected my body learned to associate it with pain and rejection. It's not that I am not horny, it's just that, idk, it's a weird mix of approach anxiety / feeling like a pervert, dirtbag for even approaching women sexually.

    Anyway, I decided to quit P because it was making me feel more and more pathetic. I feel that I have already lost everything I cared about and I cannot really muster a lot of respect for myself when I see myself in front of the PC jerking off to other people having sex. As much as I like the aesthetics of P and women and sex, it makes me feel lousy and like a total loser.

    I read about all the supposed benefits of quitting P and I was like, sure, I know I feel like shit anyway, so maybe quitting P will help.

    So 50 days in now.

    I had strong cravings to look at P (not so much PMO, but just watch P) for about 20, 30 days, and they gradually wore off. Not exactly sure what a flatline is, but since about day 35, 40 I was kinda not thinking about it much; maybe ten to fifteen minutes a day with minor urges. I had a curious surge of confidence and "magnetism" about 14 days in, when I would get a lot of looks from girls and women approach me without me doing anything. That certainly was a high where I felt like: Wow, this is working, I'll definitely keep this up.

    Now, I assume what's happening is that the process is not new, so the initial challenge is gone, but what's worse is that now I can clearly see that all these years (about ten years total) I had used P as a daily self-medication against helplessness/hopelessness/depression, and with this medication gone now it's all crashing in. It's the weight of feeling like I have lost ten years of my life, that I fucked up, that I am a total loser and shitbag — oh whatever, you get the idea, just a lot of negative self-talk, feeling worthless, unloved, undesired, and without any positive outlook or sense of purpose.

    I think my professional situation is just adding to that because while I am "self-employed" I am barely making any money right now — which just adds to feeling like a total failure.

    So yeah, I've made it for 50 days, and it kinda felt so "easy" at times (at least not impossible) that I am kinda thinking P wasn't my major issue. But now for the last ten days or so, depression has been weighing in really hard. I guess I stopped seeing progress from no PMO — no flirts, no attention from women, feeling absolutely drained and shitbagged. Ironically, however, the only thing I feel I am doing with any measure of success right now is no PMO and quitting coffee.

    The negative feelings are just too much to handle, really. The little urges I do get revolve around one scene I had watched shortly before I quit, and I have the strongest and absolutely moronic urge to watch this scene again to give me an inch of pleasure or whatever. But yeah: You know, I know it's so freaking hollow and pointless, I kinda wanna believe that no PMO is the magic pill that will finally help me out of my paralysis, but I am completely blocked, and that fuels a lot of self-talk and rationalizing, like, well, if you're not making any progress, what's the point of not looking at P, if life isn't turning around, might as well PMO to total self-medication.


    Well, sorry this is all very long. I hate my "misery" myself, it's just making me angry. I am probably just at the lowest point since starting this journey, and I am running out of reasons to pick myself up...

    :( :(
  2. charlieK

    charlieK Member

    None of the circumstances in your life would be improved or helped in any way by going back to porn. In fact, they would undoubtedly be made worse by the additional shame, guilt and isolation.

    Dude, you've got ALOT on your plate right now. Do you have a therapist? If not, you should. I think getting out of that marriage was the best thing you could have donebut there is simply no way you get out of any longterm relationship, good or bad, without a period of mourning and grief.

    Keep writing here. It will help
  3. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    @ charlieK

    Thank you for your response. You're absolutely right, going back to P would make me feel extremely shameful and guilty, and accomplish absolutely nothing — I have to remind myself of that; and gosh, I hope I don't slip up. I'm pretty sure if I can hold out for another two, three days I will feel better again.

    As for therapists, I know this will sound odd but I've been to six different ones in the last year and their consensus was, well, "you have to grief", and "you have to make a decision to move forward", but I felt very much left alone in terms of how to do that. Then one of them even told me: "You have to acknowledge that at your age and with a failed marriage and depression you are not even thirds for any potential woman." — yeah, that sure made me feel so much better about my situation...

    You are right: I will have to go through the mourning. I guess I was just hoping that after 18 or so months I would feel a lot better than I do right now.

    Well, one step at a time. I'm trying not to lose hope here, and the best thing I can do right now is not slip up in these next couple days...
  4. charlieK

    charlieK Member

    The fact that you saw 6 different therapists might be part of the problem. You need to build a therapeutic relationship and that takes time. You need an intentionsl listener not some pat advice. Yoo many people think a therapist will say some magic words and ghings will start to improve. Be patient EFS.

    I suggest you stay as busy as possible. If you can dont work at home alone. Go to a library. Take a yoga class...hard as it seems. Do something besides wait at home yo feel better.

    You cannot think your way into right action, you can only act your way into right thinking.
  5. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    I don't know if Buddha told you this or you came up with it yourself... but this is PURE GOLD:

    Thank you. Also, I hope I will make myself feel better soon, and able to post some more encouraging progress.
  6. EFS White

    EFS White Member


    53 Days in, still depressive > cravings stopped around day 30 > battling underlying psychological issues now; desire to use P for medication against sadness


    I am still feeling rather down. Not quite as unbearably horrible as yesterday but still way deep down in the dumps. I know I am thinking way to much; a certain degree of psychological paralysis about doing anything about my situation however leads pretty straight to over-thinking. Oh well.

    BACKGROUND INFO: Problems /personal situation / lifestyle

    A little bit about myself: Due to the difficulties in my marriage I have been suffering from depression on and off for a couple of years now, probably something like 8 years. I know that at the root of this depression was my helplessness in dealing with my wife's problems and probably even more deeply rooted a sense of insecurity and an inferiority complex. In other words, I am rather sure that my depression is not caused by imbalances in brain chemistry but that my personal situation probably affects my brain chemistry in this way. This is why I am fundamentally opposed to medical treatment of my depression. I've done a lot of research on brain chemistry etc. even beyond YBOP and have scheduled for myself a kind of natural arsenal of positive dopamine. So I eat a rather well balanced diet, about 60-70% vegetarian, lots of nuts and healthy fats, I exercise about 5 times a week, running, cycling and lifting weights on separate days, I pursue hobbies that I find enjoyable (music) and I try to stay as sociable as possible, meeting up with friends about 3-4 times a week. I suppose, though, that I cannot overcome my depression fully until I have rearranged my life fundamentally, set myself up to heal from the wounds of the troublesome marriage and gain new self-respect, self-confidence and a sense of hope and purpose.

    So, I have been self-employed ever since I got my first degree eight years ago. That career is my dream job, and that makes it all the more harder to own up to the fact that this career has not shaped up the way I had hoped, to the point where right now I am not making enough money anymore to stay afloat. I consider this NOT P RELATED! While I did spend a couple hours a day looking at P, I think the deeper issue is that during my marriage my wife and I had a sort of arrangement that she would earn the basic income and I would earn money depending on my business cycles. That worked really well. But now we had to sell our apartment and we no longer share a basic income, so that leaves me dangling and vulnerable to lean times.

    Anyway, I am just finishing up a second degree and I am about to make a career change. I am ABSOLUTELY NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS; as I said the job I have right now was a sort of life dream, and to give it up makes me feel super miserable. It's probably never too late to return to it, but right now I am out of resources and I will need some kind of gainful employment in order to rebound. I was forced to move back in with my parents, which — at 34 — is absolutely not helpful, self-esteem-wise.


    In terms of P, the first twenty to thirty days were the hardest for me in terms of immediate cravings and overcoming addictive behaviors. It made me realize that I had mistaken brain-driven cravings for libido for years, and that certainly was pleasantly insightful. Anyway, so for a couple of weeks I have no immediate craving for P; I do not really have a strong libido either. What I do have is moments of wanting to forget the pain and worry, and this is my greatest temptation to "snap up an easy dopamine fix" by watching certain P scenes I remember. Not even chasing novelty or whatever, just some skin visuals and naked women. Like I said, I never was confronted with PIED (but haven't had sex in more than two years either). Just to say that I had never worried about getting it up and never paid attention to morning wood before. I do get morning wood every single night, curiously not in the "morning", but more like around 4 am. So I'd wake up and notice, uh, there it is, and it's around for like thirty minutes or so. I do not P or M anymore, but judging from my morning wood I'd assume that physically I am fine.


    Anyway, through days 40 to 50 I have noticed a decrease in libido, which, for right now, I consider a good thing, as I have no intentions of starting anything, and I want to attend to my psychological issues first. However, my mood has also significantly decreased, to the point where I have been severely depressive for a couple of days now (and I was feeling rather good on average just two weeks ago; I am keeping track of my moods), and even having emotional outbreaks of absolute hopelessness, sadness and randomly tearing up and stuff. It's exhausting.

    I am still waiting for significant increases in energy or mood or reduced brain fog; also hope some day I will regain this sense of inner peace, confidence and natural magnetism I had around 14 days into the rebooting process; that was awesome, definitely a sorely needed emotional high to have attention from girls without doing anything for it. But yeah — that was ONE curious day so far.

    I have no other addictions, I do not smoke, do not drink alcohol, do not take drugs, and unhooked from drinking coffee (I drink it now once a week, on Sundays). What I do lean on to combat P urges is surfing the web randomly, reading blogs, 9gagging, reading this forum, etc. It is a little excessive and in the long run I hope to abstain from it further, however, in comparison with P and edging it seems the healthier alternative as for right now.


    I started NO PMO with an initial intention of just abstaining from P for seven days. After seven days I was like, I kinda know it's not doing me any good so what's the harm in abstaining for 28 days. Then I kinda forget about that intention because in my head I already resolved that P is a waste of my time and life energy, and not only that: that it can cause a lot of harm and actually prevent me from moving forward in my life; which is what I absolutely MUST DO at this point. So, my sort of resolution is to never look at P again in my life, least not intentionally, and certainly not PMO'ing. My intention is to have sexual stimulation from sex only, and have this sex not with one night stands and half-assed affairs but with a loving, nurturing partner with long-term potential.

    So this ^ is where I am at, and I certainly do not intend to lead anybody astray.

    However, my mind is somewhat busy rationalizing P still, and the rhetoric it used goes somewhat like, well, somebody who drinks a beer once a week certainly isn't an alcoholic nor is somebody who smokes one cigar ever other weekend a nicotine junkie. In other words, without trying to defend or excuse any immediate urges for P my rational mind seems to take a moderated stance on the whole issue. P isn't the devil. It's perfectly for P to be "attractive" to men, as this is what it is designed for: It is perfectly natural triggers to get excited by sexual stimulants, so I certainly will never beat myself up for finding women attractive. I do recognize that frequent use of this particular reward circuitry must have addictive/negative effects, however, trying to take an objective stand here, I do not believe that a very moderated use, say once or twice a month (and not for hours on end but for a couple of minutes) would not wreak havoc on the human mind. Then there is the "depletion through ejaculation" aspect of the whole thing, and I certainly believe in this. It is probably among my very best reasons for abstaining. I am sure most of you are familiar with the study on serum testosterone levels after ejaculation; the study shows that in the test subjects testosterone levels would drop to their lowest levels after ejaculation and increase consistently until peaking seven days after ejaculation. The summary of the study is formulated rather misleadingly, saying the levels "spiked" after seven days; this seems to imply that they are steady for six days and then massively shoot up on day seven. With a little digging I have found more details, and at least from the data I have obtained testosterone was increasing exponentially for the first seven days, and then was decreasing consistently for the next seven days, reaching another low point after fourteen days (I do not have the link to this right now, but I am sure you can find this). In other words, I have no problems believing that ejaculation affects testosterone levels and that the body needs a certain recuperation period after orgasm. This convinces me absolutely that PMO'ing every day or even every other day must heavily affect the body and mind through both depletion through ejaculation and overstimulation of brain circuitry.


    Long story short, I do want to stay away from P because I do not think it is healthy and beneficial for me. But looking at the available research I cannot see any convincing reason to avoid ejaculation or P in moderation, e.g. every 14 days. I am writing this down here because I am convinced that my belief systems heavily affect my choices, and if I believe that non-frequent P use at two weeks interval is "safe" I am liable of justify such behavior in the future — as a single guy with no option for real-life intimacy.

    * * *

    Aynway, that's it for today. Back to work for me, hopefully wrapping up a huge project today...
  7. Aussie_85

    Aussie_85 Guest

    Hey man.

    I can relate a lot to you,even though your 22 days or so ahead of me.

    It's hard.

    All i can say is....stay strong and look at the big picture,you've been abusing porn for many years.It's not all going to 'be fixed' in 50 days....even 120.But i suspect after you double up and get to 100 you should have more good weeks than bad.and continually get/feel's so hard to just 'want it now' but this journey is so every way.
  8. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    Thanks, Aussie,
    I know you are having a hard time right now as well; all the more I appreciate the pep talk. — Thank you! Yes, let's hope that another 50 or so days from no, and staying clean, things will start to lighten up. All the best to you (and everyone reading along) as well! Heads up, men. We're doing this!
  9. EFS White

    EFS White Member


    Had a very bad depressive stretch > want to take the time to reflect on some positive signs nonetheless > less guilt & shame, more self-respect, more integrity, more time

    DAY 54

    It's the end of a hard and very depressive week for me. Saturday I wanted to finish up a project I have been working on for four months straight, and unfortunately I'd come only so close but couldn't wrap it up altogether. Nonetheless, I did have a very productive day and spend the evening at an art exhibition with very good friends of mine — the rewards of having a productive day and being social are reliably helpful in battling depression it seems.


    This forum is the perfect place to come clean and confess to EVERYTHING and I am very thankful for that opportunity. One thing I noticed recently was that while you are caught amidst a P addiction it seems almost invisible, it's easy to pretend, "hey, I am just having some measure of fun, what's wrong with that?" Well, it's only after quitting PMO altogether for six or seven weeks that I come to realize that my interactions with women were on a very fundamental level always dictated by sex. Once I am among other people I usually handle myself rather well and can be very sociable and outgoing, and I even think that nobody would be able to suspect my internal chatter from the outside. But if I was with a hot girl, I'd constantly fantasize about nailing her, if I was with guy friends or girl I didn't find attractive, I'd still think about, I wish some P star would come in right now and fuck my brains out. So my internal thought processes were constantly circling around sex, sex, sex, either way; how can I get laid, where can I meet a real-life woman for reenacting all this fantasticly twisted P fantasy. Late last year it literally got to the point for me where I was meeting with a girl friend once a week to make music, and my mind would be insanely possessed, day and night, of fantasies of having sex with her. Curiously, it were only the two, three hours we met per week that I was just naturally drawn to her and we were flirting — but no, people, I am shitting myself: even when I was seeing her in a way it was always my mind racing through sex fantasies.

    I believe this sort of monotonous sex-driven mindset is absolutely below a healthy male. I knew that I wouldn't want a relationship with this girl, that, while I liked her, I wasn't all that much into her as a person, and what's probably worse: that my P-intoxicated brain was making me pathetically horny/needy/nervous and socially awkward around her, which I just know is not my real me. I was so not natural around that girl, just unable to keep up a normal conversation because my mind was just obsessed with fantasizing. In a way it was like I was spending time with her on the outside, but on the inside I was sort of mentally wanking at fantasies of her. Not in the moment, no mojo, no real libido and appreciation of that woman; just some sick a degraded craving. It makes me shiver to recall that. Pathetic fuck that I was. Get out of here!


    So my last couple of days were marked by depression, hence my journal entries were super negative. As today I am feeling a notch better, I want to report a few of the positive and hopeful signs; to inspire you and to make myself aware of why this is all worthwhile after all.

    Every night I am proud to be P free. On most days I used to stumble through the interwebs for at least one or two hours aimlessly before going to bed; most times I would just be randomly P surfing or end up P surfing after normal internet use after a while, and normally I'd be edging for, like I said, an hour or so, sometimes longer, then finally PMO'ing and going to bed around midnight or one in the morning. Now, on most days I will work until 8 or 9, then check a few blogs, read some news, watch some interesting documentary or some netflix — and then I just turn off the computer and go to bed, like at 10 or 11.

    I feel more in control.
    P used to control me, driving my urges, keeping me hooked and chasing. Staying away from all P related material gives me a sense of being in control. Even on my very worst days this is a really hopeful feeling that in the long run I hope will help me to rebuild my confidence, my sense of self-efficacy and self-esteem.

    I feel calmer and more sufficient. P created a mindset in me that kept me edging, craving, and unhappy. Even after an hour of PMO'ing, it would only be hours, sometimes a day or two max before I had to return for another fix. It was a constant state of exhilaration, sensationalism, triggers and P-induced adrenaline and dopamine shots. I appreciate that now I feel more toned down, a little more grounded, less stirred up by constant thrill and seeking. I can watch a good movie now, or read something interesting, and then just shut off the computer feeling satiated and feeling that this input was "enough" (and healthier at that).

    I feel cleaner and less shameful. I am not talking about basic hygiene, obviously. But edging for hours on end, sweating, having that genital scent on my hands, ejaculating into paper towels and sometimes into t-shirts or whatever fabric was around in my home office — all that made me feel unwell, unclean, and shameful, even if mostly unconsciously. My computer felt unclean (browser history, hard disc) as well, and I believe that created a sort of invisible atmosphere to the room (or at least in my mind) of feeling not all at ease when people came around. I think I read a religious quote some time ago to the effect of, if a man ejaculates he remains unclean until the evening — absolutely that's what I felt like. Now, PMO free, I feel cleaner and more confident about my body and myself. I feel that with every clean day I am regaining integrity and self-respect.

    I feel more constructive. This one is tricky. Most days I am still clouded by brain fog, depression, lethargy etc. I expected to feel more well rested, more balanced and a lot more energetic at this point — but then I also (over) do a lot of sports and nearly kill myself with some of my workouts, so there's that for knocking me out. But there is definitely a sense of self-esteem and appreciation, looking back on each day and knowing that: hey, today I did NOT completely waste two, three, four hours feeding trash to my mind, degrading and destroying myself. P hours always felt a huge waste of time to me, and whenever I would get into negative self-talk this was one of my major issues: Knowing that I have wasted months and probably years of my life chasing enticing 2D mirages instead of applying myself to realizing my dreams. Like I said, I am not where I want to be yet. Still procrastinating a lot, still getting distracted or feeling overwhelmed at times. But it feels so much better knowing that I did not willingly dump hours upon hours of my life away just like that. Just a side note: I am absolutely 100% certain that since starting my P free journey on February 12 I have "saved" a total of at least 50 hours of surfing P already — that is more than two full 24-hour extra days (!) saved in less than two months. It's shocking and depressing to think how much time of my life I have wasted before.

    I feel more honest and of more integrity. Probably related to all the aforementioned. But when I socially interact, I now no longer feel that I have to hide my pathetic P habit, I no longer have this uneasy feeling that people might be able to surmise what I was doing secretly. Like I said I was never really super-awkward in interactions with friends (only with that one girl). But now I feel I can look people in the eye and let them see all of me. This week, a very good girl friend of mine and I were talking and randomly came across talking about P. Believe me, I felt fantastic and proud and of really high value when I was honestly able to look her in the eyes and truthfully tell her: "I am no longer looking at P, it doesn't do me any good." — Felt like a real man.

    * * *

    Hope this inspires some of you to keep going!
    Have a great, clean, real-man Sunday.
  10. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    Oh wow, still on day 54 — this one really drags out and I think Sundays are always extremely difficult. I went out for a super-long walk in the woods today, I cleaned my room, I played some guitar and recorded a few new licks, I even f**king ended up working for three hours — hahaha, it's amazing what staying away from P no matter what makes you do.

    But damn, for real: Last night I was at this art exhibition with a load of friends, many of them female, and there were a few mildly flirty moments going on. This has me ridden with a total chaser effect all of today. Then a friend also recommended I'd watch THAT MOVIE with Mila Kunis and Justin Timberlake, and I was like nodding and all, but thinking: There's just no way on earth I am pushing my luck like that right now!

    Damn, now I know: I am also on an intermittend fasting routine this evening, so I'm horny AND hungry! Arghhh!!!

    Going clean is the best thing I have done for myself in a long time. Temptation is still HUGE but I will not permit myself to slip up... I CANNOT imagine starting from zero again. F**k no, no way!!!

    Stay the course, brothers!
  11. Aussie_85

    Aussie_85 Guest

    Hey dude,sounds like your going well,i hate the days that seem to drag on forever!

    Question about guitars.

    Always wanted to learn,in about 3 weeks i'm buying an electric guitar & amp,going to teach myself through reading and youtube etc.I'm gonna start out with tabs,it's easier than learning how to read music lol.

    My question is this:

    I'm left handed,but in the past when iv'e picked up friends guitars to have a muck around with them...i actually play right handed (strum with my right hand).So i thought 'i'll buy a right handed guitar'.After watching a few vids on youtube...i think it's called 'picking?' like not just strumming the strings but picking them individually..i dunno.Anyway it just seems like i'll be a bit uncoordinated with picking,but it feels way better to strum with my right hand...should i get a right handed guitar? i mean i just don't want to spend money and end up having to sell it because i can't play it properly.

    This is the guitar i'm probably getting:

    Any advice will be greatly appreciated man,cheers.
  12. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    Hey Aussie,

    that Ibanez looks like a decent starter model. Other than that: I do not have a cue how to answer your question. I'm right handed, so I never had to think about that. Sorry. If it feels "right" for you to strum/pick with your right hand and hold the chords with your left, I'd say go for a regular right-handed axe. But hell, you know these studies where they teach left-handed kids to write with their right hand?? I sure don't want to take responsibility for f**king you up. ;D I'd say swing by a guitar store a couple times, play some more, ask them some questions. Maybe you can get a hold of a decent guitar teacher early on and just play a guitar you can borrow from a friend for the time being; that way you can wait for a few weeks into your lessons to see how things go before making any sizeable investment.

    Anyway, good luck! Playing guitar is absolutely awesome!
  13. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    TL, DR

    productive day but still depressive > urges for intimacy and socializing; P not at all > depression slowly shifts to aggression; good sign?


    Finished a huge project today and expected to feel excellent. But not. Still down in the dumps, feeling way shitty and depressive. It's no wonder really: The end of this project might mean a career change for me, and it really goes against my feelings of self-worth to leave my current job behind. Wow, I know you guys cannot really comment as I am being way to vague about it all. Just saying: I know that on top of kicking my P habit I have a few personal issues to work out. Doesn't make it easier. But then: I don't really believe this is a coincidence, having P withdrawal and career change "co-inciding" like that. Maybe it's a sign I am not getting? ???


    I was on an intermittend fasting routine last night. It kept me awake for about two hours, and my mind found nothing better to do than suggest sexual fantasies to me. Interestingly, I'd say it was not so much libido as more of an emotional need for proximity, warmth, intimacy and some fun. Fantasies not so much P related, all women I know in real life, actually. Still. It's a rather moronic form of self-torture, knowing you will not allow yourself to M or PMO. Was surfing a website this morning ( which is one of the most ugly looking I've ever been on. It's largely about Chinese herbal medicine, sexual Taoism etc. +++ MAY CONTAIN TRIGGERS! +++ and it has a few interesting articles and case studies on excessive ejaculation vs. conservative practices such as semen retention etc. Reading up on the benefits of abstinence from (P) MO really helps me these days. Wish there were more success stories, too.

    Other than that I had a productive day, really got some shit down, barely got distracted; wasn't considering P for a minute. I do have a strong urge to socialize and spend time with women but for emotional/personal reasons (separation and divorce related, hurting) I still do not feel like dating, so that's very confusing and a little frustrating. My other friends are booked familywise on Monday nights and I am kinda outside the city. Not that I couldn't make the trip. Only... what the hell do I do all on my own?


    Oh my, I hate depression. I swear it gets on my nerves so much, it's starting to be a good thing: The more it makes me ANGRY the less, I hope, I am just lethargic and down. Not saying anger is much better, but it feels more energetic. I am hoping this is a new found healthy/constructive dissatisfaction. And hey: I am not self-medicating with P. So I'm good.

    * * *

    Guys, have a great day. Be strong!
    I suppose I'll go for a run now, get rid of some tension.


    I am using an online email service and something like after 8 pm or so they are showing rather enticing ads, not really P, just very sleazy and all. I noticed that I am kind neutral to them, neither shying away from them nor feeling triggered. Things like that used to be huge triggers for me, often leading to an hour's worth of binging. Now, I can literally just brush it off and move on. Hope that's a good sign. Just sharing tiny indications of progress.
  14. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    I was just posting on someone's relapse post, and it got me thinking. It seems that relapse is quite a common and quite a frustrating phenomenon among fellow rebooters. I am really glad I could resist my urges so far in, and I am determined not to slip up in the future either. A regular question that pops up is whether or not all progress is lost after a relapse. The general consensus of the "relapse victims" seems, oh my god, I'll have to start from scratch, the general consensus of the community seems, dude, no worries, you already made a lot of progress.

    My hypothesis is that PMO'ing is all about breaching the body's (and the mind's) regenerative cycles, and that rebooting or healing has everything to do with an appropriate recovery period, and beyond recovery with respecting your regenerative cycles. I have no medicinal or psychological academic background, that is also absolutely beyond my aspirations. My ambition is just to provide a model for thinking about recovery.


    My proposition is to think of 30 day average scores, that is one point for every PMO (or even only O) as your "depletion rate", similarly a 30 day average factor for your "recovery rate". For sakes of creating a constructive but somewhat realistic theoretical framework, I am basing my assumptions about the recovery rate on the studies on the effects of ejaculation on blood testosterone levels. This research seems to indicate a 7 day recovery period for blood testosterone levels after ejaculation. Gary seems to propose a 14 day or so recovery rate for dopamine circuits after excessive P consumption (currently not included in my theory). In my graph, the recovery rate is accounted for by one point for every 7 P free (or rather PMO free) days, accumulating with every P free consecutive week; its scale and proportionality to the depletion rate is merely a guess.

    Look, peoples, I'm not a scientist. It's all about coming up with an enabling and constructive model of dealing with this issue. According to my hypothesis and proposed model once you quit PMO (altogether) your body starts regenerating. You accumulate one point for every 7 consecutive clean days (up to 4 per month), and you lose one point for every P binge.

    I'd love to hear your opinions on this model; I might come up with a way of visualizing it and providing it as a (office based) tool to rebooters, for encouragement and tracking progress. Let me know if this seems helpful to you, and let me know whether you think I should expand on that and post it on the main forum for broader discussion.
  15. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    Just checking in to appreciate my 56 clean days. The hardest part for me now is not using P as a medication. The last two weeks were really very emotional for me, I am often tearing up, facing an incredible sadness and anger, but mostly a deep seated hopelessness and helplessness about my life.

    I am finishing up some work here for a couple more days, then I am seriously on to a career change. I am considering going into some kind of rehab first, however. I feel very certain that I need a sense of purpose in life again for without it nothing will come together. I believe a purpose would really energize me and all. So yeah, none of these are really P issues — it's just all the stuff I was conviently numbing away from for nearly a decade.

    56 days and counting. Another one done.
  16. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    Yesterday evening was my 8 week mark porn free.

    What I know already: Breaking free is among the very best things I have ever done. It was long overdue, and I can only grief for whatever could have been if I hadn't wasted so much time with filfth and fantasy over the last two decades.

    Also I have noticed something very decisive: I am a stronger man, even if mostly I cannot see it yet. I used to wank almost every day, it's been more than half a year that I went 10 days without a PMO session (and that's because I was traveling abroad), and before that...? Wow, I don't think I have EVER gone longer than 5 days since I first started masturbating. Is it any wonder I am feeling drained and depressed!

    When I first started reading on YBOP and on here, some of the guys made it seem like rebooting is this sort of magic pill, where all of a sudden you find yourself with super-confidence, natural authority, positivity, all of your problems just fade away, and of course you are blessed with the most irresistable sexual magnetism. And I am glad that may be true for some, congratulations.

    Do I have superpowers yet?

    You gotta be kidding. I am feeling miserable, I am overwhelmed with sadness and I have no clue how to push onward.


    Feelings of helplessness and sadness always were my greatest triggers. I have barely ever felt them hit so hard — but now I am taking the pain head-on, enduring it, willing to face it and work through it instead of pushing it away, numbing myself and fleeing to wonderland. I still feel all those things, helpless and sad, and literally I have no clue where I will be and what I will do even three weeks from now — but I am FEELING THIS now, not turning away, taking the hits, and willing, WILLING to sort things out.

    I believe the superpower-myth is just another fad that ultimately keeps you in wonderland, and delays your emotional healing, and if you think about it, it is not too different from the false promises of porn: What, all of a sudden you wake up a James Bond with willing and hungry models all over you, just because you quit wanking? That sounds plausible.

    Confidence does not come from easy fixes and superpowers. Confidence comes from hardship; from being reduced to who you really are, to only your flaws and mistakes, to your faculties and abilities — and working things out with whatever you got. No magic pill. No superhuman strength. But isn't that what real life is about: Facing it as who you are, not a fantasy version of yourself?

    My life feels very difficult right now, but I acknowledge that I have brought this on myself. And every single day it is my opportunity to work things out.

    Next goal: 60 days.
  17. Vidyā

    Vidyā New Member

    Great post. I agree with you on the whole superpower bit and can relate to what you're feeling. Keep it up - you are inspirational.
  18. Connor Macleod

    Connor Macleod New Member

    Glad to see that your doing so well.

    "I am feeling miserable, I am overwhelmed with sadness" a few months back I had the same feeling, the sadness for me hasn't completely gone. I think some of us used PMO as an analgesic to numb the problems of our life. After a while, like most painkillers you become addicted, hooked on that nasty shit. Now that your off it, some of the pain has come back.

    Try and confront what is making you sad and if possible try to fix it and move on. Its very easy to say,but extremely difficult to do, especially when you see no solution. However, I strongly recommend that you have a read of "Mindfulness: A practical guide to finding peace in a frantic world"

    But you have went through what I think was the hardest part of giving up porn and you now know that you have excellent self control, you my friend are epic!

    Have you considered doing some voluntary work? If you don't mind me asking, what country are from?
  19. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    @ Vidya & Connor: Thank you for checking in! I appreciate your comments.
    @ Connor: Thank you for that book recommendation. It sounds like the sort of material I should be reading right now, I will give this a look right away.


    I'm checking in today for my 58th clean day. Over the past couple of days I wrote about a big project I was finishing up. As I expected depression was hitting hard yesterday and today. But for what it's worth, I was able to complete a minor project yesterday and today, and I felt that — compared to excessive PMO days — I just have way more time that I am actually committing to my work; I am able to wrap things up a little quicker and I feel a little more productive. My output is not necessarily higher overall yet, maybe a bit. The crucial part is psychological: That I know that I was not wasting a couple hours each day surfing pretty pictures. ;)

    Connor, I appreciate your suggestions. I was reading up on the topic of "inferiority complexes" and Adlerian psychology recently, and one of Adler's prime suggestions for overcoming an inferiority complex (and depression, probably) is charitable, voluntary work — doing something good for someone else.

    I am definitely thinking into that direction. I believe my self-employed job I have been doing the last couple of years was a sort of combination of both a very self-centered and self-fulfilling job and at times consulting for others; not really charitablly but in the sense of helping my clients etc. (I do not want to go into details here, I need my anonymity, otherwise I wouldn't feel as safe anymore sharing what's really and truly on my mind). But since I am now confronted very likely with a career change in the next couple of weeks, a social perspective and an opportunity for contribution is definitely one of the aspects I am keeping in mind.


    Thankfully my libido is still rather low. I never experienced PIED but due to reading lots about it here I am paying more attention to random boners etc. I feel everything is fine for me on that front, have morning wood (or rather "night wood") every morning, and get a random boner or two during the day. Mostly these are accompanied with brief fantasies about girls I know in real life. I do not hang on to these fantasies and they quickly go away.

    Very similarly: my urges to PMO are virtually gone! I will have this one scene that's been haunting me popping in my head for about two to five minutes throughout the day (weird, it's always only this same one scene, just a couple of girls not even very explicite). But then I do not hang on to the taught and stay busy doing something else. So there's minor urges to look at this one scene but I have not been triggered to actually open a browser and porn surf in probably a week or so.

    Depressive moods and sadness / helplessness are still coming in hard. I have about another week's worth of work on my desk right now, after that I am considering to go into therapy or into some kind of rehab or retreat for my depression and lack of meaning. I am looking into logotherapy right now, so in case any one of you has experience with that, I'd appreciate to hear your opinion.

    I did get a few really cute smiles from girls in the last couple of days. It's literally about a second a day — but worth so much more! Women are just so beautiful; they're lovely. Still I am a little anxious about spring and short skirts right now. It might drive my horniness through the roof and I feel so not ready to get anything started. That plus abstinence: it might get exhausting.


    I know the next couple of days will be a challenge for me. I am running out of work to distract myself with, then will have to face some really fundamental decisions. Depression is quite certain to hit me hard. Also, PMO urges virtually gone for a couple of days might make me feel just a notch too safe. I'll have to keep my guard up, and especially I will have to try and muster all the hope I can that there will be light at the end of this tunnel.

    Wishing you all a good, clean day! Keep moving forward!
  20. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    TL, DR

    Cannot believe 59 days can drag out like that > quitting porn is easy but making the decision to face reality every day is super hard > I am thankful to know that onward is my only option.

    Wow, this is hard to believe. I have MO'd for more than 20 years almost every day, and looked at a lot of porn especially over the last decade. Tomorrow will be my 60th day of going clean — and that means it's barely been two months so far! The struggle made it feel much longer.

    Really a weird feeling how perception of time gets distored: If I'm thinking in terms of, "geez, it's already April again", I'm all thinking that was quick. If I emotionally assess how long it's been that I looked at enticing visuals — goodness, it's hard to believe how 59 days can feel so long.

    Writing this, I absolutely do not intend to discourage anybody. I have no intentions of going back to daily porn and MO'ing, absolutely not. I feel like I am finally beginning to own up to an adult and male sense of self, responsibility and integrity, whereas so far I mostly felt like a 30+ year old boy. I'm just saying: For me this is a really touch stretch so far and it is a daily choice to stay away from porn and chose a better vision for life for myself.

    I believe the hardest part is knowing that you have made the change, knowing that you are (finally) addressing your issues ... but there's a certain lag time before you start seeing results manifest outside of yourself. I am aware that I still have a lot of crap on my plate that I need to sort through and find solutions for. It's harks back to what I wrote a couple of days ago: I now know this process isn't about swallowing the magic red pill and suddenly all is well. Not at all so. It's a painful process; not quitting porn, that's easy, but facing all the things I've chosen to ignore for so long. But even while it's painful right now, I know that there is no other way but to work through it. It's not too late to turn my life around, and I know for certain that I do not want to go back to porn and all that's associated with it: self-medication, anxiety, shying away from confrontation.

    I cannot wait to make it to 60, 90, 120 days and hopefully start seeing things happen that will SHOW ME that these tough choices are paying off.

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