"It(porn) just led to him raping me more, more than he already did"

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by hope2overcome, Aug 20, 2016.

  1. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    No discussion, we all know this is true, porn as a potent force for firing up our sex drives. It may not lead to kidnapping or rape but it certainly does reinforce dehumanization and championing one's own sexual drives.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFUb5l7aO2w
     
  2. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    I feel sorry for what she has experienced, but how does she know the impact porn has had on her rapists?

    She's no expert in psychology, or a man, or a porn addict. She makes for good media headlines, but that doesn't make her any authority when it comes to knowledge or understanding of porn addiction.

    It's like thinking that someone who has AIDS would become a better biologist just because he has contracted the disease.

    That being said I do agree that porn has a negative effect on society as whole, not just on the people who watch/perform it.
     
  3. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    Ok.

    Really Newnes? How does one become a good psychologist? Is it not observation? As a psychology minor who has taken and been a part of many psychological studies, I can say it's all about observations. And, due to this there are different schools of thoughts.

    What she did was observe that post porn viewing her captor was more sexually excited. We know this is due to his brain seeking the neuro chemical fix. She did not have to know the neuroscience behind addiction to know this as you are making it seem.

    Lastly, I ask you this. If she knew the science behind addiction would her observations be different?


    Do you not acquiesce that an average person who has aids will know more about it than the average man who does not have it? Of course a scientist who made it their life's work to study it will know more than someone who simply has aids. In addition, there are certain things that people with aids will "feel" that scientists can never reproduce or understand. So, either ways, your statement is off the deep end.


    Your post made light of her situation albeit inadvertently but it is still revolting to me. Please check yourself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2018
  4. mik

    mik Guest

    What the fuck dude :(
    I enjoy porn, I do not enjoy rape nor have I ever engaged in such. There are some people in this world that are so messed up that anything can push them over the edge. If porn didn't exist rapists would just revert to fantasies in their minds, there is even a lot of evidence to suggest that rape has gone down significantly with the rise of pornography.
     
  5. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    One becomes a good psychologist not by mere observation, but by methodological observation. If it is a science (I believe it is, although much incomplete in the current state), then the scientist requires objectivity. Having been raped, this woman obviously lacks objectivity. This is why the "methodology" part of papers is so important.

    Also, she hasn't even been experienced much of it. She only experienced what happened when some a crazy guy, who happened to overuse porn, had a victim to rape. Sure, it lasted 9 months - but it was only one stade. It's not like she could see evolve from non-porn users to porn users to porn addicts, and see how their behaviours changed at the same time.

    As for being more excited after having watched porn... Well, when having normal sex, I feel more excited than when watching a non-porn movie. Any sexual activity that isn't completed (orgasm) will make a guy hornier than his normal state. In this case, the guy was mentally sick, so this horniness translated into rape. But I don't see how we can extrapolate it to say that porn will make mentally healthy people more likely to rape (although again, I do think it's the case on the long term due to dehumanisation - I just don't see how her case, in her specific situation and experience, is any authority).

    Imagine you're a non-trained firefighter. You go to a house to save people. You get on fire - literally. Sure, you're living the experience of being on fire, but does it make you better understand how fire works? No, in this case, you can understand how it hurts (and I don't pretend I understand how harmful rapes are as much as this victim does), but not how it works.

    Yes, someone with AIDS will usually have more knowledge about the medication and transmission means for AIDS. But they won't understand the virus itself better than a scientist.

    As for knowing better how it feels like to have AIDS - yeah, I think in this respect, seropositive people have un-equalled knowledged. What I claim isn't that other people know better what they feel (or that we know better than Elizabeth Smart what it feels like to be raped), but that this subjective experience doesn't lead to an enhanced understanding of the virus itself (or the effect of porn onto an individual).

    She doesn't say much about the connection between porn and rape/kidnapping. She suggests there's a link, although she says she cannot say it definitely. She says porn made her rapes being more often/worse, but she doesn't say anything more about it... So yeah, I do agree with that. Porn addiction impacts different people in different ways, I agree it's possible that, for some, it will increase the odds of raping women. But her "observations" are close to zero. She just gives her final conclusion (porn = more rape), which I think is like 60% likely, so I'm not very sure.

    Finally: I'm not diminishing her suffering. I just say suffering isn't equal to knowledge, suffering is source of emotional bias. Also I don't like the tone / sensationalism of the video, it's just bad journalism, which is pathetic in the original meaning of the term and I don't like it this way for such an important topic (but this comment isn't about Elizabeth, it's about this kind of journalism more broadly).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2018
  6. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    bro never argue porn necessitates rape. It's that porn consumption increases sex drive to such an extent that it destroys our natural inhibitions, it does create a scenario wherein the body just wants sex, more fucking, more everything irregardless of what the consenting partner may want. Therefore, for the sick person that takes porn too far and goes out to rape and kidnap someone, porn is their bread and butter which they survive off of. This article exemplifies the fact that porn does exactly that. This lowering of inhibition and extremely high sex drive which we know is really the brain seeking it's neurochemical fix is the very samething that motivates our escort solicitation.
     
  7. mik

    mik Guest

    Damnit, you better be a fucking saint if you're really going to stick behind this argument?
    I hope you don't play violent video games/watch violent movies, because I'm sure you've heard this exact same argument against those mediums. Do you really want to live in a world where violence in videogames of any kind is censored, do you think this is perhaps just tugging on your heartstrings because it is a pretty girl that got raped rather than a school shooting? I think you might be white knighting a little bit here.
     
  8. bucketter

    bucketter Guest

    Thanks mik for stopping the bullshit train right there.
    I'm logging off, this thread is gross
     
  9. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    Truth is she is way below my standards, I never even thought about seeing her as a potential partner. I just don't know how you can even conclude that? How can sympathising with a kidnapped teen who was raped for 9 months straight be construed as a form of white knighting? Maybe you are projecting some repressed emotions onto me. Maybe it is the MGTOW movement or w/e it is called acting up again in your mind. But, it is definitely not a "white knight" thing.

    If someone motivated by violent video games commits an act of aggression I will voice my disdain as I am doing here. Again i never argue porn consumption results in rape. All I argue is 2 things,
    1.) Excessive porn does contribute to dehumanizing, aggressive sexual tastes, porn induced fetishes, PIED etc. and for some, the vast minority it creates pathways of acting out on sexual fantasy perhaps in the form of rape.
    2.) Perpetrators of violent attacks should be condemned without assuming the condemner is "white knighting".

    Elizabeth Smart did observe an increase in frequency of wanting sexual involvement post porn viewing. So, the dehumanizing in porn does effect the voyeur somewhat. That is not saying everyone who does will commit rape. Just, porn can be used as a drug to set sex drive into sex overdrive. A warning that should go along with porn consumption. If you ask what the purpose is to state the obvious, that porn harms, it is so that we can further the discussion about regulating porn consumption such that it does not get in the hands of the wrong people such as kids.


    Let me ask you mik, as someone who is somewhat knowledgeable of your struggles. Would you have escalated to the fetishes you acquired without porn? If the answer is no then should we not at least acquiesce that there is a danger to too much consumption? I personally don't like the idea of porn at all but just my personal distaste should not prevent you from yours. Should there not be something done about it? I don't know what but something.
     
  10. bucketter

    bucketter Guest

    I'm a little interested, without going to delete into this argument because I think not only are your points gross but I think you've inadvertently pointed out a very interesting topic about ybop that maybe we should share for another time.

    How would you even, in your words "regulate" porn?
     
  11. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    This really broke my heart reading this. I am a fucking scientist as my degree states that I am. I have been heavily involved in many research and know the ins and outs of everything someone does in order to get a research paper published, accepted including the scrutiny by faculty/superiors in order to validate objectivity. I as well was in a similar place.

    It is all about observation, the fact that you make a distinction between "methodological observation" and "observation" just makes me so sad at how people with no background in this field can mutilate the field of my study after I spent so much time, toil and detail in.

    So, I am just gonna state even with the scientific approach(which I assume you are getting at) you must perform normal observation.
    There are no set rules that make a piece of literature bias free, that is simply at the discretion of the researcher. In fact, if you read any, literally any, book of psychology 101. One of the first things about scientific study is this, There is no same state of an experiment. This means the time, place and circumstance of every experiment will be different hence, there will always be a bias.

    She claimed that the rapist wanted to rape more after every viewing. This testimony is not conclusive but even you must admit it isn't nothing. Also this does not mean porn use = rape. It does mean by mere observation that
    1.) porn use can create a lack of empathy towards the sex partner.
    2.) And, porn can be used as a drug.

    The whole point of this is to suggest that more must be done about regulating porn use. 1.) It should not be so accessible to youngsters. 2.) It should not be seen as a simple act of viewing a video due to the hardcore misogynistic nature of porn.

    Marginal Note: If you believe that my real self does know a thing or two about how to conduct scientific research then let me add this. At a point in every research, 100% is dependent on funding. 100%. At one point, it is all about funding, completely. I remember being a part of a research involving a microcontroller which only exists because of funding from sandusky labs. Another research opportunity wasted due to the NRC pulling the plug on funding. SO, just food for thought, if the porn industry can afford to botch research findings in favor of influencing pro-porn thoughts, do you think they won't? If you accept this you are not a conspiracy tin foil hat theorist but a realist. And, that is why, Buzzfeed, Cnn Money, RT news, HuffPost etc are so pro-porn despite certain influential congresswomen taking the firm stance that being pro-porn is not pro-liberal but rather pro-misogyny.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2018
  12. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    @Newnes and @mik, I respect the two of you tremendously but I realized a feeling of depression took over me simply by association of this topic and this forum in general. I will be taking my leave from this forum and this topic for as long as I can so excuse me for not responding. Go nuts if you want to.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2018
  13. Borges08

    Borges08 Member

    So has addiction.
     
  14. mik

    mik Guest

    Sigh, alright fine. There may be a small percentage of mentally unwell people who might act out after watching violent porn, or playing violent games.

    Perhaps the world would be a better place without so much violence, or perhaps there is already to much violence in the minds of humanity and taking away potential outlets like porn and violent media would just cause more havoc.

    I just don't know, and it seems like noone wants to have an honest discussion about it without jumping completely to one side or the other, as I am guilty of doing as well.
    I don't know how we can find the answers to this, it is one of those cases where removal/censorship of the content could either turn out well or lead to chaos.
     
  15. Borges08

    Borges08 Member

    Quitting pmo for life is already leading me to problems.
     
  16. mik

    mik Guest

    I'm not sure what your saying here? I was replying to H20.
     
  17. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    @H20:

    First I'm sorry this conversation led you to a depression. I hope you recover quickly.

    Second, why did this happen? How does this conversation get you so emotionally involved? I mean, the debate didn't get heated, there was no fallacious argument on either side, no calling name, etc. So it's gotta be the very topic itself.

    Third, why would we go nuts? :eek:

    Fourth, no, psychology (or any other science field for that matter) is never 100% objective.

    I make a distinction between "observation" and "methodological observation" because the methods is what makes sure that we don't leave some data out of the study because we don't like it, that we really observe and don't interfere with the experience (unless the study resquires interference ofc), etc. This is the difference between me observing an event happening with little psychological background, and you who will know what to look for, how to relate the micro-events to one another, etc. I also agree that methods doesn't completely negate bias, but it still reduces it. Also, being less involved helps reduce it too (I don't know how you're involved with your research, but I don't think you were as involved as her being raped and held captive for 9 months - this seems like a very extreme involvement to me).

    It seems you relate to Elizabeth: "I as well was in a similar place.", which would explain why you get so emotional. See one big difference: now you do science, and now she is a militant. Militants, IMO, and whether they militate for a good or a bad cause, are closer to politicians than scientists, because they care more for the result than the respect of truth. So in regard to science, you are very different from her.

    Anyway, I just don't see the point of this kind video. Either you agree with her and you'll keep agreeing. Or you disagree and you'll keep disagreeing. This just makes both sides stand on their position more grounded.
     

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